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Old November 10th, 2011, 08:10 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default All you ever wanted to know about batteries and chargers

"Work in progress, please do not move to another forum, per EarlyMon"

This is a thread for all battery info, etc. It will approximately follow the layot detailed below by EarlyMon:
Quote:
Originally Posted by EarlyMon
So - consider repeating the stories at each domain level (such that I can go in depth but still give a quick and easy to read primer) in the first post.

Say up front that the main deal is in the first part, other parts are optional and very fun to know.

Continue from there in outline form, with numbers. Can do with depth of one or however many levels into the depth makes sense.

I suggest these candidates to just give the idea, you do as you like, tho -
1. What chargers can I use? What do I look for?
Discuss USB and wall chargers

2. Why doesn't my battery show 100% or why does my battery drain 8% in just a few minutes?
It doesn't, etc.

3. Battery tech
Electro-chemical details of lithium ion batteries

4. Advanced topics for propellerheads like EarlyMon
Applying quantum theory to batteries - I'll be looking forward to that!

5. nkk's credits to others, references, and credentials
However you'd like to arrange

6. OPTIONAL - change history or edit reason or whatever like that
Put anything below the main bullets in hide tags, and then anything in sublevels below hide tags or not as you see fit
For the many folks only interested in one or two areas - or just reviewing a single area on a given day, that keeps it super-neat and compact.

As soon as you make the thread, immediately make a second post and just say, "Reserved"
One is plenty, we can replicate more reserved posts at the top for you with mod magic

Here's a great example of a starting thread for a sticky candidate with a reserved post - Convert owned movies with Handbrake
Top of first post, red, bold, italic - "Work in progress, please do not move to another forum, per EarlyMon"
So...I am making the thread now with merely a link to another post I made. I am student, so time is precious. However, over the next three or so weeks, I will complete this and it will be a self contained item.

The seed post

11/11/11

So I am going to use Hide tags for almost all info until this is done. That way everything can be compartmentalized and this post will not be absurdly long. When it is done, I will cut and paste into a more logical organizational structure.

FAQ





Thanks,
Nkk

*Any product recommendation I give is based on my past experience with said product. Past performance in now way guarantees future reliability. My recommendations are made in good faith and I accept no return or compensation from anyone for making them. I am not responsible for any event which occurs as a result of you following or not following my recommendation.

EDIT: If you have any questions you would like to see answered here, please post them. I am sort of at a loss for common FAQ material, so do not be shy.

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Old November 10th, 2011, 08:11 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Old November 10th, 2011, 08:22 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I look forward to learning more.
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Old November 10th, 2011, 08:22 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Cool..subbed to the thread ill keep up to date as best I can
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Old November 10th, 2011, 08:23 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Thanks nkk, Look forward to learning something myself.
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Old November 10th, 2011, 11:06 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Nkk, you may want to include how to handle battery charging during the first few charges. I have read there are certain ways to charge the battery the first few times to improve its life, etc (I think its called bump charging?). Thanks
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Old November 11th, 2011, 12:20 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Namrak View Post
Nkk, you may want to include how to handle battery charging during the first few charges. I have read there are certain ways to charge the battery the first few times to improve its life, etc (I think its called bump charging?). Thanks
There's old techniques that do improve a batteries life. And herein lies the problem, they are old. Modern charging circuitry has all the parameters built in, so you don't need to do anything fancy.

You'll get differing strong opinions on this, but I haven't seen any evidence to support requiring any special charging. Most people who do claim these work are going off the battery monitor in the phone, which takes several cycles to learn the battery profile in the first place.

There comes a time when "conventional" wisdom doesn't apply. We don't pump the gas pedal before starting a fuel injected car anymore. Nor do we worry about buying pork in the summer. And these advanced batteries aren't old NiCad cells. There's no memory, and no special techniques are required.
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Old November 11th, 2011, 01:36 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nj02vette View Post
There's old techniques that do improve a batteries life. And herein lies the problem, they are old. Modern charging circuitry has all the parameters built in, so you don't need to do anything fancy.

You'll get differing strong opinions on this, but I haven't seen any evidence to support requiring any special charging. Most people who do claim these work are going off the battery monitor in the phone, which takes several cycles to learn the battery profile in the first place.

There comes a time when "conventional" wisdom doesn't apply. We don't pump the gas pedal before starting a fuel injected car anymore. Nor do we worry about buying pork in the summer. And these advanced batteries aren't old NiCad cells. There's no memory, and no special techniques are required.
You are both right an wrong. I have little time, so I will present the info to you in bullets:

-You are correct that the consumer does not have to follow a specific regimen

-the manufacturer, however, does. I think It has to do with a uniform coating of degraded cathode over the cathode crystal structure That way ther is barrier of sorts to future degradation.oxidation

-This is a proprietary process

-my advisor in the lab I worked in had also worked in the JPL (Jet propulsion laboroatory). They tried ordering batteries from A123 systems (best in biz for large Liion bats). A123 did a special initial charge/discharge process on them. JPL wanted the batteries to test with, to keep results sstandardized they asked a123 what they did. a123 said it was a trade secret and that they had to do it to all batteries.

So, it is not necessary. Even if the manufacturer does it it is probably not necessary so much as it ensures consistency. But it does do something

Sorry for typos...rushed.

-Nkk
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Old November 12th, 2011, 06:54 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nkk View Post
You are both right an wrong. I have little time, so I will present the info to you in bullets:

-You are correct that the consumer does not have to follow a specific regimen

-the manufacturer, however, does. I think It has to do with a uniform coating of degraded cathode over the cathode crystal structure That way ther is barrier of sorts to future degradation.oxidation

-This is a proprietary process

-my advisor in the lab I worked in had also worked in the JPL (Jet propulsion laboroatory). They tried ordering batteries from A123 systems (best in biz for large Liion bats). A123 did a special initial charge/discharge process on them. JPL wanted the batteries to test with, to keep results sstandardized they asked a123 what they did. a123 said it was a trade secret and that they had to do it to all batteries.

So, it is not necessary. Even if the manufacturer does it it is probably not necessary so much as it ensures consistency. But it does do something

Sorry for typos...rushed.

-Nkk
My post was written from the point of the consumer, so in that we completely agree. The consumer has absolutely nothing to do special. Just plug it in and charge.

Just like the consumer doesn't have to know injector flow rates and timing advance in modern computer controlled cars. Just turn the key and go. My point was there is a lot of old world thinking that gets applied to new technology which isn't applicable anymore. You're fairly young and probably don't remember having to do all sorts of tricks with rechargable batteries to improve capacity and life. But that day has passed and "conditioning cells" (at the consumer level) isn't applicable anymore.
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Old November 15th, 2011, 09:02 PM   #10 (permalink)
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OP edited with a few FAQs and a plea for questions from everyone.

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Old November 16th, 2011, 01:47 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Looks like in a few years battery tech will catch up to our current cell phone demands.

New Li-ion Battery Design Boosts Energy Capacity and Charge Rate 10-Fold | Popular Science
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Old November 17th, 2011, 03:39 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Is it bad for my battery to just leave my phone constantly plugged in? This is actually for my OG Droid that will be replaced by the SGN(soon I hope ). I intend to buy one of those multimedia docks for it and use it as my alarm clock/radio, and I'll probably never remove it from the dock and leave it constantly plugged in.

If I've heard correctly, once the battery is fully charged, the phone won't switch to "AC Power Only" or something like that, but will actually let it drain approximately 5% before charging it back up to 100%.
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Old November 18th, 2011, 10:27 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Does it hurt the battery life to partially recharge the battery in the middle of the day?

i plug in my phone to the car charger between trips to get extra battery life. instead, should i just let it completely discharge before i plug it in?
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Old December 16th, 2011, 08:36 AM   #14 (permalink)
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This seems like the perfect place to have my confusing question answered.

Long story short: my in car charger doesn't supply enough power to stop the battery draining over long trips.

I've got one of these, which Griffin says supplies 1amp. This worked great on my Wildfire, and charged much faster than the standard 500mA charger I had before.

Bought my Nexus ~1.5 weeks ago and I was having trouble getting the phone to display "Charging (AC)" while in the car (I'm lead to believe that "AC" charging is 1 amp, and "USB" charging is 500mA). A swift bit of googling later, and I cut open a USB cable and shorted the D+ and D- wires on the phone side. This did the trick! It displayed "Charging (AC)", oh happy days!

However, the charge is still woefully inadequate, and after my test today, it seems only marginally better than no charge at all when running the Navigation app. I thought it was the cable, so I switched to the one that came with the phone, and another I had from my old Wildfire, no change.

Could anyone shed some light on my confusion? Or recommend a charger/cable combo that will allow my phone to gain a net increase in charge while having the navigation app running?

Thanks!

EDIT: Here's a screenshot of my battery drain while charging (over AC apparently) and uskng Navigation.

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Old December 16th, 2011, 09:59 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by standardtoast View Post
Could anyone shed some light on my confusion? Or recommend a charger/cable combo that will allow my phone to gain a net increase in charge while having the navigation app running?
I am having the same issue. This seems to be a very hungry phone with the screen on at full brightness. (at least, the Android battery stats indicate that the screen is the primary source of drain). If I turn off the screen entirely and just use Bluetooth to play local audio, the percentage creeps...up...very...slowly.

I plan to run to Best Buy later on today to pick up a few chargers to try out. Some of them claim to supply 2 amps or more. If I find any that can keep the Nexus happy, I'll report back.
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Old December 16th, 2011, 02:37 PM   #16 (permalink)
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So sorry for not answering your questions, but I am in the middle of finals so I am sort of preoccupied.

I will try to answer your questions vaguely this weekend, and then with real answers on Friday when I am done.

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Old December 16th, 2011, 02:48 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Anyone know how to get a blackberry or original droid charger to work with the Nexus?
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Old December 29th, 2011, 12:01 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redrider4life1 View Post
Anyone know how to get a blackberry or original droid charger to work with the Nexus?
I just plugged my OG droid charger into my Nexus and it charged it. Didn't have to do anything else.
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Old January 6th, 2012, 07:26 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redrider4life1 View Post
Anyone know how to get a blackberry or original droid charger to work with the Nexus?
FAQ question #1 answers that question almost exaclty. There is no magic to get it to work, it will work. It may charge a bit slowly (IIRC BB chargers are 500 to 600mA, whereas stock Samsung is 1A).

Also, OP updated. I do apologize for the delay (I haven't said that before...).

Keep the questions coming!

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