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Old May 30th, 2012, 12:58 AM   #51 (permalink)
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Jelly Bean Will be Android Version 4.1; 7″ Nexus Tablet All But Confirmed | DroidDog Android Blog

Jelly Bean is Android 4.1.0, just like I suggested.
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Old June 5th, 2012, 07:57 PM   #52 (permalink)
 
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Old June 7th, 2012, 12:53 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Jelly Bean is Android 4.1.0, just like I suggested.
Well, that wouldn't be very psychologically satisfying. I want a bigger number. Everyone knows: Bigger Number = Better
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Old June 18th, 2012, 07:45 AM   #54 (permalink)
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4.1 will still be ICS, Jelly Bean will be 5.0 when it's released. I wouldn't even start to think about Jelly Bean since there hasn't been any information release regarding it. We may see it at the I/O conference in a few weeks but even then I wouldn't expect to see JB until next year.
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Old June 18th, 2012, 12:48 PM   #55 (permalink)
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I believe by the time it comes out I will be Great Grandmadroid....not because of grandchildren....just because of the time line and I'm already freakin old. Just sayin'....
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Old June 18th, 2012, 07:13 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SweatyPits View Post
Apple has had the same OS since inception. Google has had what, 5or 6?

Apple updates theirs leaving its core process the same or simmilar so most apps work fine.

Developers can't keep up with Google's nonsensical practice of dropping a new OS when most apps are still 2 OS's behind.
This is perhaps the blessing and curse that is Apple.

On one hand, people love apple because when they upgrade a newer iPhone (3Gs to 4s, say) they know that they will be able to use the phone, because the OS looks and, for the most part, acts exactly the same as all the previous "versions."

To me, and a lot of Android users, this is just too boring. I think the fact that Android updates are more monumental that Apples is the reason Android lovers love Android. Can you imagine if Android still looked and acted like Eclair (or even Froyo)? It's easy to simply say that developers can't keep up with Google's updates, but I have yet to run into any issues with App compatibility since switching to the GNex (and ICS) months ago...

Moral of the story: If you just want to feel comfortable with an OS, choose Apple. If you want an exciting, evolving OS, choose Android.

Whether one is more buggy than the other is a different story, and is dependent on the user.
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Old June 21st, 2012, 02:53 PM   #57 (permalink)
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[Update] The Next Version Of Android Is Confirmed As 4.1 Jelly Bean, Will Be Coming To The HSPA+ Galaxy Nexus From Google Play First

Looks like jelly bean might not be that far away at all..for the gsm version at least.
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Old June 21st, 2012, 03:30 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Yup. I've been saying JB is 4.1. Maybe now someone will listen. ~~
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Old June 21st, 2012, 07:23 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Thread title changed to reflect Jelly Bean properly as 4.1.

http://phandroid.com/2012/06/21/galaxy-nexus-entry-in-the-google-play-store-outs-jelly-bean-4-1/

http://www.droid-life.com/2012/06/21/galaxy-nexus-listing-in-play-store-outs-jelly-bean-as-android-4-1/
http://www.droid-life.com/2012/06/21/thursday-poll-predictions-for-jelly-bean/

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Yup. I've been saying JB is 4.1. Maybe now someone will listen. ~~
What? I'm sorry, I wasn't listening.
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Old June 21st, 2012, 07:54 PM   #60 (permalink)
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So looks like we'll be getting Jelly Bean pretty soon actually... except Verizon customers. We'll get it Q2 2014.
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Old June 21st, 2012, 07:56 PM   #61 (permalink)
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So, when do we start taking bets about how long it takes Verizon to roll it out after the Google Play version gets it?
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Old June 21st, 2012, 09:29 PM   #62 (permalink)
 
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google just came out with ICS, when most phones are still on gingerbread or froyo-and now there's 'jellybean'??

i'm getting tired of fragmentation of android and waiting forever for an update to get my phone working right. i am considering going back to iphone for the next upgrade
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Old June 21st, 2012, 10:56 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntimonyER View Post
So, when do we start taking bets about how long it takes Verizon to roll it out after the Google Play version gets it?
It seemed like forever for VZW version to get 4.0.4 from 4.0.2. But what many folks are forgetting is difference between GSM and VZW version for official 4.0.4 update timing is less than two months. So I guess within 2~3 months after Google Play GSM version gets 4.1.
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Old June 22nd, 2012, 12:59 AM   #64 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SweatyPits View Post
google just came out with ICS, when most phones are still on gingerbread or froyo-and now there's 'jellybean'??

i'm getting tired of fragmentation of android and waiting forever for an update to get my phone working right. i am considering going back to iphone for the next upgrade
Technically the same thing happened with 2.0 to 2.1 to 2.2. 2.0 came out in October 09, then 2.1 in January 10 and 2.2 was May 2010. A lot of phones skipped ever getting 2.0 and jumped right to 2.1. The same thing could happen with 4.0 and 4.1. Also keep in mind that 4.0 was technically out in mid October which was 8 months ago.

If you really think about it though, it could be a lot worse. You could have just bought the top of the line Windows Mobile phone that came out 2 months ago. Then you could have just discover that it will never be capable of running the next software version. I'll take a little fragmentation over phones more or less reaching EOL in 2 months.
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Old June 22nd, 2012, 05:57 AM   #65 (permalink)
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^^This.
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Old June 22nd, 2012, 07:39 AM   #66 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SweatyPits View Post
google just came out with ICS, when most phones are still on gingerbread or froyo-and now there's 'jellybean'??

i'm getting tired of fragmentation of android and waiting forever for an update to get my phone working right. i am considering going back to iphone for the next upgrade
That's the best part about choice. If you don't like something Google is doing then the iPhone might be the right decision for you. I have had no problems with my phone and if I want more options you can root and ROM your phone to (most likely) get the latest OS on your phone.

The thing is Google is just using code names for its release, but Apple does the same thing with their numbers. iOS 5.0 was released on October 12th, 2011 and iOS 5.1 was released on March 7th 2012. ICS (4.0) was released on October 19th 2011 and we won't see 4.1 until later this year which could actually equate to a longer time between releases than Apple.

Android has always done x.1 releases without major chances EXCEPT 2.3 (Gingerbread) which added & changed a lot of things in the OS. I highly doubt we see many changes between 4.0 and 4.1, but what we do see will definitely be an improvement over ICS and I have no problems with it at all so I would love to see what they have planned.

Just some food for thought.
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Old June 22nd, 2012, 07:44 AM   #67 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntimonyER View Post
So, when do we start taking bets about how long it takes Verizon to roll it out after the Google Play version gets it?
I have this mental image of these VZW software review nerds banging their heads against the wall as they test out ICS updates for the Razr/Rezound/Bionic/etc. for a software that Google just upgraded.
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Old June 22nd, 2012, 07:53 AM   #68 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SweatyPits View Post
google just came out with ICS, when most phones are still on gingerbread or froyo-and now there's 'jellybean'??

i'm getting tired of fragmentation of android and waiting forever for an update to get my phone working right. i am considering going back to iphone for the next upgrade
Pick your poison. Google has fragmentation because they release new versions of Android as soon as they're ready. You wait forever for an update due to the manufacturers and carriers. Apple, on the other hand, won't release an iOS update until it works on all/most devices and passes carrier certification. You're really waiting just as long for Apple updates you just don't realize it because they hold it until everyone can get it. Get a Nexus, root it, and get new ROMS as soon as they come out :-)
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Old June 22nd, 2012, 08:10 AM   #69 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SweatyPits View Post
this article mirrors consumer's experiences much more accurately:

[Editorial] The Life And Trials Of Android: A Beautiful Mess That Is Destined To Survive


not really, that guy is either trolling or stupid...

People forget we have been through this before.

MAC vs Windows

You could replace mac for iOS and Android for Windows, swap a software discussion for a hardware one and this article is straight from 1992...


MAC fans spent YEARS claiming that MS would fail because the the variety of hardware was to difficult to program for.

Same goes for his other claims...
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Old June 22nd, 2012, 11:12 AM   #70 (permalink)
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Keep in mind that this fragmentation that you are griping about will be just a memory as Android keeps on pace to merging Chrome OS and 4.0+. That is what is happening.
People will keep upgrading their phones and new customers will be getting their first taste in the future and Android will be so much better. Gingerbread and Froyo will be things of the past...sooner than later.
Google will become more stringent with manufacturers and carriers and their custom skins and software hacks that make updates such a PITA.
BUT, if want to just sit and complain, enjoy your Apple.
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Old June 22nd, 2012, 11:29 AM   #71 (permalink)
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Google Slips Android 4.1 Jelly Bean Details - Mobility - Smartphones - Informationweek
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Old June 22nd, 2012, 06:11 PM   #72 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
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not really, that guy is either trolling or stupid...

People forget we have been through this before.

MAC vs Windows

You could replace mac for iOS and Android for Windows, swap a software discussion for a hardware one and this article is straight from 1992...


MAC fans spent YEARS claiming that MS would fail because the the variety of hardware was to difficult to program for.

Same goes for his other claims...

uh...no. that's completely unrelated. android is currently far more fragmented than apple is.


google is not only admitting there's too much fragmentation, but is attempting to curtail it:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/247256/google_takes_a_step_toward_fighting_android_fragme ntation.html
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Old June 22nd, 2012, 06:32 PM   #73 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SweatyPits View Post
google just came out with ICS, when most phones are still on gingerbread or froyo-and now there's 'jellybean'??

i'm getting tired of fragmentation of android and waiting forever for an update to get my phone working right. i am considering going back to iphone for the next upgrade
A phone running froyo or gingerbread doesn't run any worse because a newer version exists. If your phone wasn't working "right" when you bought it, you probably should have returned it.

But if apple does it for you, get what makes you happy.

They have fragmentation too, just less because there are fewer device choices. But they do point releases, not all devices are eligible for all updates, and devices are not forced to update.
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Old June 22nd, 2012, 09:19 PM   #74 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SweatyPits View Post
Google is fragmenting it's OS way too much. most phones are still on gignerbread or froyo, ICS just came out and most apps are buggy with it, and now there's a "jellybean" coming out soon?

If google keeps this up, it'll ruin the android OS, and drive me back to apple. one thing i have to give the iphone i used to have-it was FAR less buggy.
That's not really Google's problem. ICS has been available for quite a while.

Blame the manufacturers who choose to skin it and the carriers for adding in the bloat.
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Old June 22nd, 2012, 09:46 PM   #75 (permalink)
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That's not really Google's problem. ICS has been available for quite a while.

Blame the manufacturers who choose to skin it and the carriers for adding in the bloat.
And on that note this thread should be closed b/c thats just the absolute truth and nothing else needs to be said lol
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Old June 23rd, 2012, 01:38 AM   #76 (permalink)
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I see a lot of complaining directed toward VZN for delaying the release of 4.0.4, but didn't it also take a while for the GSM Gnex to get 4.0.4?
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Old June 23rd, 2012, 01:50 AM   #77 (permalink)
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I see a lot of complaining directed toward VZN for delaying the release of 4.0.4, but didn't it also take a while for the GSM Gnex to get 4.0.4?
Not as long really.

Everyone blames Verizon based on history with updates. They generally take longer than any other provider to release update. Sometimes it is a good thing because they test the update, but in this case the update wasn't really an improvement over the leaks that came out a while before. to top it off they claimed that it fixed problems that it didn't fix.

In this case we were hit with a double whammy because Samsung is also notorious about taking forever to update phones.
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Old June 23rd, 2012, 05:12 AM   #78 (permalink)
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Not as long really.

Everyone blames Verizon based on history with updates. They generally take longer than any other provider to release update. Sometimes it is a good thing because they test the update, but in this case the update wasn't really an improvement over the leaks that came out a while before. to top it off they claimed that it fixed problems that it didn't fix.

In this case we were hit with a double whammy because Samsung is also notorious about taking forever to update phones.
I'll be honest, I'm starting to question whether the reason VZW takes longer to release devices and updates is because of a more rigorous testing process, or because their testing process is filled with bureaucratic crap which guarantees a slower process AND lesser product. Honestly, I didn't see any improvement with the 4.0.4 update in what I consider the biggest problems, in fact I think it may even be slightly worse. And I know your problem wasn't fixed either, OTD. Kind of frustrating.
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Old June 23rd, 2012, 08:36 AM   #79 (permalink)
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I see a lot of complaining directed toward VZN for delaying the release of 4.0.4, but didn't it also take a while for the GSM Gnex to get 4.0.4?
I don't know that it "took a while" for the GSM Gnex, but the Verizon one had 4.0.4 before just about any other phone. What phones now ship with, or are updated to, 4.0.4?

The Verizon GNex had 4.0.4 before many contemporary phones had any version of ICS.

When people complain it took "too long", what is that in comparison to??

The GNex directly from Google is obviously going to get updates slightly faster than the GNex indirectly from Google by way of Verizon.
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Old June 25th, 2012, 01:03 PM   #80 (permalink)
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Well it looks even more like they are going to be showing off 4.1 at Google I/O.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AntimonyER View Post
I'll be honest, I'm starting to question whether the reason VZW takes longer to release devices and updates is because of a more rigorous testing process, or because their testing process is filled with bureaucratic crap which guarantees a slower process AND lesser product. Honestly, I didn't see any improvement with the 4.0.4 update in what I consider the biggest problems, in fact I think it may even be slightly worse. And I know your problem wasn't fixed either, OTD. Kind of frustrating.
It could be a bunch of red tape or it could be really poor communication between Samsung and Verizon. It could also be that testers are living in the the problem regions for the muted call issue. No muted calls must mean problem solved, right? Knowing people that work for Verizon, I can see red tape being a huge issue.

In the past, I haven't seen huge improvements with software updates unless their are version changes. On my fascinate they released a couple of minor updates, but the real fixes didn't come until the phone moved from Froyo to Gingerbread. So if it is Verizon, Samsung, ICS or something else maybe 4.1 will fix it.
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Old June 25th, 2012, 02:05 PM   #81 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Well it looks even more like they are going to be showing off 4.1 at Google I/O.




It could be a bunch of red tape or it could be really poor communication between Samsung and Verizon. It could also be that testers are living in the the problem regions for the muted call issue. No muted calls must mean problem solved, right? Knowing people that work for Verizon, I can see red tape being a huge issue.

In the past, I haven't seen huge improvements with software updates unless their are version changes. On my fascinate they released a couple of minor updates, but the real fixes didn't come until the phone moved from Froyo to Gingerbread. So if it is Verizon, Samsung, ICS or something else maybe 4.1 will fix it.


If 4.1 really is unwrapped this week i don't even want to think about how long it will take the VZW to get it. I'm not talking about Roms built from 4.1 source either, because those mean nothing to me without the corresponding VZW specific firmware to match.

Also we should keep an eye out for a jelly bean statue to be put up at Mountain View soon ....like in the next day or two if they are going to out JB this week.
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Old June 25th, 2012, 09:04 PM   #82 (permalink)
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People forget we have been through this before.

MAC vs Windows

You could replace mac for iOS and Android for Windows, swap a software discussion for a hardware one and this article is straight from 1992...


MAC fans spent YEARS claiming that MS would fail because the the variety of hardware was to difficult to program for.
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uh...no. that's completely unrelated. android is currently far more fragmented than apple is.
I don't think you're following his point. He's saying that Windows computers were also "fragmented" in the sense that 1 OS has to work on hundreds of of hardware platforms, and they seemed to turn out just fine.

Fragmentation isn't inherently bad. Case in point, Windows currently owns almost 75% of the OS market (Mac OS is under 10%), while Android has 59% of the smartphone OS market (iOS is at 23%). Part of what makes Android so great is that you have hundreds of devices to choose from, not just one with a teeny tiny screen.
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Old June 25th, 2012, 11:11 PM   #83 (permalink)
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I don't think you're following his point. He's saying that Windows computers were also "fragmented" in the sense that 1 OS has to work on hundreds of of hardware platforms, and they seemed to turn out just fine.

Fragmentation isn't inherently bad. Case in point, Windows currently owns almost 75% of the OS market (Mac OS is under 10%), while Android has 59% of the smartphone OS market (iOS is at 23%). Part of what makes Android so great is that you have hundreds of devices to choose from, not just one with a teeny tiny screen.
The main difference between smartphone fragmentation and computer fragmentation is that one is expected when the equipment is purchased and the other is sold separately.

OS updates and upgrades are expected with any smartphone you buy (at least one during the life of the phone). The things that limit that from happening are the manufacturers and the carriers. With computers you may buy a Vista (shiver) computer just before Win 7 comes out, but you are going to have to go out a buy Win 7 and install it yourself.

We expect updates (right or wrong, we do) and when those updates can take as long as a year to come out it is frustrating to see the next version of the OS coming out just as you are getting the previous one. I had a Fascinate and didn't see Gingerbread on that phone until right about the time of the ICS announcement. What makes it even more frustrating is that with each OS update we are excited about impressive new features that we want to have. Eclair had Google Nav. Froyo had flash and tethering. Gingerbread had NFC, Video Chat, VOIP, etc. ICS has a whole new design, faster camera, tabbed browsing, new notification bar, etc. When all the new stuff comes out you want it and you don't want to wait 6 months while a bunch of people who don't care mess with it before giving it to you like they promised when you bought the phone.

I understand the comparison and in some ways you/he are right. Software still works, phone calls can be made, browsing can still be done and games can still be played. To most people it makes absolutely no difference. To us it is like having that proverbial carrot dangled in front of our faces and some sadist laughing in the background as they pull it away again and again.

We can all hope that with the less blurred blur and the more sensible sense with ICS we can get updates that much faster now. We will probably have to wait longer for the Wiz to touchdown, but maybe they can all speed things up with less skinning to do.
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Old June 26th, 2012, 12:55 PM   #84 (permalink)
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If 4.1 really is unwrapped this week i don't even want to think about how long it will take the VZW to get it. I'm not talking about Roms built from 4.1 source either, because those mean nothing to me without the corresponding VZW specific firmware to match.

Also we should keep an eye out for a jelly bean statue to be put up at Mountain View soon ....like in the next day or two if they are going to out JB this week.
boom!!!

Jelly Bean is Official, Statue Arrives at Google Campus – Droid Life
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Old June 26th, 2012, 05:33 PM   #85 (permalink)
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I just wanted to be the first to ask...

Will it be available for the GNex?
If so, when will it be released?

Speculation is encouraged.
GSM Galaxy Nexus and rooted users: within 4 weeks of Nexus tab release

VZW Galaxy Nexus stock users: Christmas of 2012. And I predict eleventy-billion threads complaining about it before now and then.
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Old June 26th, 2012, 05:54 PM   #86 (permalink)
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GSM Galaxy Nexus and rooted users: within 4 weeks of Nexus tab release

VZW Galaxy Nexus stock users: Christmas of 2012. And I predict eleventy-billion threads complaining about it before now and then.
You must be on the inside.
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Old June 26th, 2012, 07:20 PM   #87 (permalink)
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If 4.1 really is unwrapped this week i don't even want to think about how long it will take the VZW to get it. I'm not talking about Roms built from 4.1 source either, because those mean nothing to me without the corresponding VZW specific firmware to match.

Also we should keep an eye out for a jelly bean statue to be put up at Mountain View soon ....like in the next day or two if they are going to out JB this week.
That's really the question: will we Toro users be able to build ROMs from the source once Jellybean is released, or will we be forced to wait for proprietary Verizon files that come with the official release.
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Old June 26th, 2012, 08:18 PM   #88 (permalink)
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It will be shoehorned unto rooted / unlocked phones well before its officially available.
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Old June 26th, 2012, 08:18 PM   #89 (permalink)
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That's really the question: will we Toro users be able to build ROMs from the source once Jellybean is released, or will we be forced to wait for proprietary Verizon files that come with the official release.
both. If JB source is released (which should happen within a week from tomorrow) Roms can be re based from JB source code. HOWEVER until VZW releases an official build you will be running a JB Rom over ICS firmware. Which could be a bad thing or a good thing. Usually it results in a lot of bugs or some features not working. Then again it could work just fine.
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Old June 26th, 2012, 10:15 PM   #90 (permalink)
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ICS the end of fragmentation? How? The only way I could see that being the case is if Google updated every Android phone directly from their own offices, but then you'd get an outcry from Samsung and HTC because their crappy overlay suddenly wouldn't work. And it's not how it is anyhow.

Anyway, looking forward to AOKP on 4.1...
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Old June 27th, 2012, 07:53 AM   #91 (permalink)
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I think fragmentation is only going to get worse. The only way they can make it better is go to yearly updates to new versions so that the older phones can catch up or EOL themselves, and only release small updates for bugs in between the major updates.


for example, they should wait another year before releasing Android 5.0.
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Old June 27th, 2012, 09:00 AM   #92 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by trophynuts View Post
If 4.1 really is unwrapped this week i don't even want to think about how long it will take the VZW to get it. I'm not talking about Roms built from 4.1 source either, because those mean nothing to me without the corresponding VZW specific firmware to match.

Also we should keep an eye out for a jelly bean statue to be put up at Mountain View soon ....like in the next day or two if they are going to out JB this week.
For all we know, VZW could have had JB for a while now, and could start pushing it to the GNex a lot sooner than 4.0.4 was.

I'm even going to venture a guess that they had an early version of it and were testing it at the SAME TIME as 4.0.4 which would explain why it took so long for 4.0.4 to be pushed. It also would explain why VZW didn't offer an explanation as to why they dropped the ball on 4.0.4...they secretly had 4.1 all along!
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Old June 27th, 2012, 09:22 AM   #93 (permalink)
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Its a given that they've probably had it for a while in a test cycle,

I would bet you that Google is already coding for Android 5.0
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Old June 27th, 2012, 09:48 AM   #94 (permalink)
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ICS the end of fragmentation? How? The only way I could see that being the case is if Google updated every Android phone directly from their own offices, but then you'd get an outcry from Samsung and HTC because their crappy overlay suddenly wouldn't work. And it's not how it is anyhow.

Anyway, looking forward to AOKP on 4.1...
The key point of fragmentation that ICS was supposed to address was the difference between phones and tablets. The key reason that it hasn't come to all devices is the big changes that were made between 2.3 and 4.0. Custom UIs had to be rewritten and slimmed down (which was a good thing).

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Its a given that they've probably had it for a while in a test cycle,

I would bet you that Google is already coding for Android 5.0
I think they are coding for 12.5 already. They are just taking it as it comes, but these guys have ideas that they want out there. They just don't have them finished. Some things may show up in JB and some in KLP. Other may not show up until they get to S or T.

We may not even see JB on phones this year. It may just be on a Tablet for a while and not show up to phones until this fall. At that time we may also see a bunch of phones getting upgraded to it.
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Old June 27th, 2012, 10:00 AM   #95 (permalink)
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The key point of fragmentation that ICS was supposed to address was the difference between phones and tablets. The key reason that it hasn't come to all devices is the big changes that were made between 2.3 and 4.0. Custom UIs had to be rewritten and slimmed down (which was a good thing).



I think they are coding for 12.5 already. They are just taking it as it comes, but these guys have ideas that they want out there. They just don't have them finished. Some things may show up in JB and some in KLP. Other may not show up until they get to S or T.

We may not even see JB on phones this year. It may just be on a Tablet for a while and not show up to phones until this fall. At that time we may also see a bunch of phones getting upgraded to it.

this made my head hurt lol
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Old June 27th, 2012, 10:01 AM   #96 (permalink)
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this made my head hurt lol
Which part? I'll rephrase.
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Old June 27th, 2012, 11:46 AM   #97 (permalink)
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According to Engadget, google has dropped the price of the GNEX on the play store to 349, and will release it with JB
Google cuts the price of the HSPA+ Galaxy Nexus to $349, adds Jelly Bean -- Engadget
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Old June 27th, 2012, 12:28 PM   #98 (permalink)
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I just wanted to be the first to ask...

Will it be available for the GNex?
If so, when will it be released?

Speculation is encouraged.
I owe the OP an apology because at the time SharpBarb created this thread I thought it was a sick joke, yet here we are...
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Old June 27th, 2012, 01:23 PM   #99 (permalink)
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Well according to today's keynote, Jelly Bean PDK went out to hardware manufacturers 3 months ago. That means that potentially, since the Nexus is the current developer device, Verizon itself may have already had 3 months to dick around with an actual Gnex build. Probably wishful thinking, but hey.
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Old June 27th, 2012, 01:31 PM   #100 (permalink)
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Yeah from what i've read the actual source code won't come out until mid-july as well. So for custom Roms we'll have to wait till then. Unless some early leaked builds start dropping which could happen for the GSM variant at least...

VZW would totally win a lot of people back if they would drop a Jelly Bean bomb on everyone mid July. oohhhhhhhh the speculation is about to reach Category 4
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