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Old August 19th, 2012, 04:10 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Question Should I shut-down my GS3 to charge?

This is probably old-school, but I've traditionally shut down my phone before recharging every night. The rationale was that the phone would recharge faster if it wasn't having to stay "on" at the same time. However, given that modern phones (particularly the S3) are often used as alarm clocks, etc., it would seem that leaving it on 24-7 may be the new norm. Is there any harm in this? Is there any real benefit from shutting down the phone completely while charging overnight?

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Old August 19th, 2012, 04:13 PM   #2 (permalink)
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No. To both.
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Old August 19th, 2012, 05:30 PM   #3 (permalink)
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No. To both.
Thanks for the quick response. So, some related questions:
  1. Does shutting down the phone help it in any way, regardless of charging?
  2. On my previous Palm phones, shutting down the phone only turned off phone function while the PDA portion of the phone remained in toggle-able standby all the time. It would seem shutting down my GS3 actually turns everything completely off. If that's the case, unless the user had an actual need for the phone during his/her sleep hours, would it stand to reason that a GS3 in the off-state for 8 hours every night, thereby providing about 7 hours per day in which it is not generating heat or using the battery, would prolong the life of the phone?
  3. I know we can clear the RAM though the interface, but does rebooting/shutting down the phone clear non-volitile memory like other electronics?

I know these are elementary questions, but it's because I'm clearly a newb. I appreciate your patience.
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Old August 19th, 2012, 07:14 PM   #4 (permalink)
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good thread
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Old August 19th, 2012, 07:27 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 120inna55 View Post
Thanks for the quick response. So, some related questions:
  1. Does shutting down the phone help it in any way, regardless of charging?
  2. On my previous Palm phones, shutting down the phone only turned off phone function while the PDA portion of the phone remained in toggle-able standby all the time. It would seem shutting down my GS3 actually turns everything completely off. If that's the case, unless the user had an actual need for the phone during his/her sleep hours, would it stand to reason that a GS3 in the off-state for 8 hours every night, thereby providing about 7 hours per day in which it is not generating heat or using the battery, would prolong the life of the phone?
  3. I know we can clear the RAM though the interface, but does rebooting/shutting down the phone clear non-volitile memory like other electronics?

I know these are elementary questions, but it's because I'm clearly a newb. I appreciate your patience.
1 and 3) Shutting down the phone would clear volatile memory (volatile loses memory if power is removed. Non-volatile is ROM). But Android manages RAM by itself, so there isn't really a need. I reboot my phone about once a week, though, just to give the phone a chance to reload RAM from scratch. Doing it every day is unnecessary, IMO. So no real benefit.

2) Shutting down an Android phone shuts down all features. Some Android devices have a 'fast boot' mode that actually makes the phone in a 'hibernation' state, but it still isn't ready to operate until after you turn it back on.
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Old August 19th, 2012, 08:05 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I'd say that turning off your phone to charge is a great idea. I don't do it because I receive calls/texts at all hours of the day and I use it as a secondary alarm in case my other doesn't work or the power went out. But I would say that shutting down your phone at least once a day is best for the phone. I say that for all devices as devices need to shut down and rest for a few minutes including phones and computers. They typically run faster immediately after a restart due to renewed RAM space, cooler temperature, and other factors. In my experience, phones typically charge faster when turned off which is what I do when I desperately need a charge and don't have a lot of time.

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Originally Posted by 120inna55 View Post
Thanks for the quick response. So, some related questions:
  1. Does shutting down the phone help it in any way, regardless of charging?
  2. On my previous Palm phones, shutting down the phone only turned off phone function while the PDA portion of the phone remained in toggle-able standby all the time. It would seem shutting down my GS3 actually turns everything completely off. If that's the case, unless the user had an actual need for the phone during his/her sleep hours, would it stand to reason that a GS3 in the off-state for 8 hours every night, thereby providing about 7 hours per day in which it is not generating heat or using the battery, would prolong the life of the phone?
  3. I know we can clear the RAM though the interface, but does rebooting/shutting down the phone clear non-volitile memory like other electronics?

I know these are elementary questions, but it's because I'm clearly a newb. I appreciate your patience.
1. Already answered.
2. When shut down, it seems like most Android devices still stay on. It's a fairly new feature to increase the speed of a start up. Taking out your battery makes the phone shut down completely. On my HTC Evo 4G OG, I wasn't able to access something unless I shut down my phone by taking out the battery known as the Hboot and Recovery for root users. It's an alternative startup for advanced users. But nevertheless, I wasn't able to access it unless I pulled the battery from my phone because my phone was programmed to not shut down fully.
3. It actually does. But after a while of being on and you using it and apps and such, it uses more RAM as it did before.
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Old August 20th, 2012, 01:04 AM   #7 (permalink)
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When the sgs3 is shut down, its fully off.

It is not a bad idea to shut down the phone to charge. It is however, pointless
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Old August 20th, 2012, 02:09 AM   #8 (permalink)
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When the sgs3 is shut down, its fully off.

It is not a bad idea to shut down the phone to charge. It is however, pointless
shutting down the phone before charging overnight well increase long term battery life, because trickle charging as the battery begins to drain after reaching 100% does take a toll on the usable life.

I know some people will say "who cares", but even a 10% efficiency loss can make a difference during a long day.
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Old August 20th, 2012, 03:38 AM   #9 (permalink)
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shutting down the phone before charging overnight well increase long term battery life, because trickle charging as the battery begins to drain after reaching 100% does take a toll on the usable life.

I know some people will say "who cares", but even a 10% efficiency loss can make a difference during a long day.
The reason for saying 'who cares' is that the problem you are describing will happen - over a 2 years. Will you still be using the phone 2 years from today?
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Old August 20th, 2012, 07:01 AM   #10 (permalink)
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The reason for saying 'who cares' is that the problem you are describing will happen - over a 2 years. Will you still be using the phone 2 years from today?
If the phone lives that long, then absolutely, yes.

I don't just arbitrarily change phones just because my contract expires. For years, I have sat back and watched as carriers buy out ours. I started in the 90's with 360 Communications which was eventually bought out by AllTell, and then about 2 years ago, Verizon. I've renewed contracts throughout the years, but relatively infrequently, and only when a phone actually broke. As a result, I often go a year or more out of contract as long as the phone endures. While I love gadgets, my phone is essential to my job and when I have everything working the way I need it to, I don't change it. It even causes a bit of stress when I'm forced to change. Going from Palm OS to Windows a few years back was quite painful, but I had to. My Palm 755p died after several years of reliability. Insurance replaced it with a Palm Treo Pro w/Windows OS. I was told it was my only option. I adjusted and was getting along fine with the Treo Pro. My wife was still satisfied with her reliable Palm 755p.

We recently received a letter in the mail stating that for some time, Verizon has been putting out a separate data stream for "legacy" AllTel customers. (I've attached the Verizon letter for those who care.) They'd been nudging customers with incentives to upgrade their phones to Verizon phones. Well, now, this flyer indicated that as of January 1 they would be taking down the data stream, effectively making our AllTel phones dumb phones with basic calling and text capabilities only. The flyer indicated that we could receive $100 off "select" smart phones (but it didn't say which phones were eligible for the discount). It turns out it is dependent on the "retiring" phone as to what phones you'll receive the $100 discount. My Palm Treo Pro and my wife's Palm 755p were both eligible. So, great! We were going to get the $199 phones for $99/each with contract. Then at checkout, the rep told me that our accounts were eligible for further discounts. Apparently Verizon credits you for every month you're out of contract. I had racked up an additional $30 discount and my wife had a $50 discount. So we got 2 GS3s for $118. I feel like that was a pretty good deal, especially since a contract means nothing to me. I simply don't like to change phones when everything is working the way I like it. So, it is my hope that the GS3 will last a while.

All that said, the transition to Android was the least painful, yet. In fact, it was painless. It has been a very satisfying experience and I love the phone.
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Old August 20th, 2012, 07:10 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TadeoNYC View Post
shutting down the phone before charging overnight well increase long term battery life, because trickle charging as the battery begins to drain after reaching 100% does take a toll on the usable life.

I know some people will say "who cares", but even a 10% efficiency loss can make a difference during a long day.
need evidence of this for the s3 for a couple of reasons.

the s3 runs a kernel and mini os for charging when turned off (that display is a lightweight os like recovery) this actually consumes as much battery power as the phone would do when sleeping.

shutting down and powering on a device uses power draw as well

basically with li-on batteries charging when powered off or fully draining offers no benefit and when you have a SW level charging system like the s3 does it completely makes it pointless
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Old August 20th, 2012, 07:36 AM   #12 (permalink)
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If the phone lives that long, then absolutely, yes.

I don't just arbitrarily change phones just because my contract expires. For years, I have sat back and watched as carriers buy out ours. I started in the 90's with 360 Communications which was eventually bought out by AllTell, and then about 2 years ago, Verizon. I've renewed contracts throughout the years, but relatively infrequently, and only when a phone actually broke. As a result, I often go a year or more out of contract as long as the phone endures. While I love gadgets, my phone is essential to my job and when I have everything working the way I need it to, I don't change it. It even causes a bit of stress when I'm forced to change. Going from Palm OS to Windows a few years back was quite painful, but I had to. My Palm 755p died after several years of reliability. Insurance replaced it with a Palm Treo Pro w/Windows OS. I was told it was my only option. I adjusted and was getting along fine with the Treo Pro. My wife was still satisfied with her reliable Palm 755p.

We recently received a letter in the mail stating that for some time, Verizon has been putting out a separate data stream for "legacy" AllTel customers. (I've attached the Verizon letter for those who care.) They'd been nudging customers with incentives to upgrade their phones to Verizon phones. Well, now, this flyer indicated that as of January 1 they would be taking down the data stream, effectively making our AllTel phones dumb phones with basic calling and text capabilities only. The flyer indicated that we could receive $100 off "select" smart phones (but it didn't say which phones were eligible for the discount). It turns out it is dependent on the "retiring" phone as to what phones you'll receive the $100 discount. My Palm Treo Pro and my wife's Palm 755p were both eligible. So, great! We were going to get the $199 phones for $99/each with contract. Then at checkout, the rep told me that our accounts were eligible for further discounts. Apparently Verizon credits you for every month you're out of contract. I had racked up an additional $30 discount and my wife had a $50 discount. So we got 2 GS3s for $118. I feel like that was a pretty good deal, especially since a contract means nothing to me. I simply don't like to change phones when everything is working the way I like it. So, it is my hope that the GS3 will last a while.

All that said, the transition to Android was the least painful, yet. In fact, it was painless. It has been a very satisfying experience and I love the phone.
You are a good example of the last few people who do not upgrade every two years.
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Old August 20th, 2012, 07:56 AM   #13 (permalink)
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I have never turned a device off to charge: Ngage, Tmo Dash, G1, N900 (bleh), Incredible, Droid 3, Razr, or now the GS3.
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Old August 20th, 2012, 07:57 AM   #14 (permalink)
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shutting down the phone before charging overnight well increase long term battery life, because trickle charging as the battery begins to drain after reaching 100% does take a toll on the usable life.
I'm placing a bet that it trickle charges in "Charge mode".
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Old August 20th, 2012, 08:47 AM   #15 (permalink)
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I have had 29 phones and there were times when batteries were not as good as today and still I never bothered turning the phone off for charging, ever.
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Old August 20th, 2012, 11:40 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Default Long-term Battery Life

There are other dimensions to this question. One is long term battery life. If kept between approximately 35% and 75% charge (this equates to a specific minimum and maximum voltage) the kind of Lithium Ion cells used on mobile devices can be charged and discharged 2000-3000 times. If charge cycles routinely go to 100% and down to 15% or less, the useful cycle life drops to around 400. If charging your device when you hit 30-35% and stopping when you reach 70-75% is too cumbersome for your schedule, you might at least want to alter your habit of keeping the device at 100%. The more time a Lithium Ion battery spends at full charge (4.2 volts), the shorter the total cycle count. This high voltage stresses and deteriorates the cells rapidly. This is only a snapshot of a much larger picture but it may be useful to a few of you.

As for charging with the phone on or off, one consideration is the rate of charge. Other things being equal, the slower the charge, the less heat build-up in the cells, and the longer the cell life. If leaving your phone on results in a slower charge, and you have the time, you will benefit in terms of long-term battery life. However, some chargers have the surplus capacity to charge your battery at the full rate and run your device at the same time. If so, it won't make any difference.
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Old August 20th, 2012, 11:41 AM   #17 (permalink)
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I'm placing a bet that it trickle charges in "Charge mode".
id bet my blackness on it
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Old August 20th, 2012, 01:23 PM   #18 (permalink)
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id bet my blackness on it
You're Aubergine colour
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Old August 20th, 2012, 02:12 PM   #19 (permalink)
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It's for this reason I usually don't charge overnight, and I generally don't leave the charger plugged in for an extended period once fully charged.

I typically go to bed w/enough battery life to make it through the night. I'll charge it in the early evening, if necessary.
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Old August 20th, 2012, 02:59 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Another factor to consider is the thermal stress on the electronic circuit tracings from the cooling and heating of the circuits when powered off/on.

Now that circuit tracings are in the nanometer range, I would think that it is a better proposition to change a (replaceable) battery than to subject your electronic circuits to daily heating/cooling and thus thermal stress from powering down your device daily just to charge.
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Old August 20th, 2012, 03:46 PM   #21 (permalink)
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only when drunk
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Old August 20th, 2012, 03:48 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Another factor to consider is the thermal stress on the electronic circuit tracings from the cooling and heating of the circuits when powered off/on.

Now that circuit tracings are in the nanometer range, I would think that it is a better proposition to change a (replaceable) battery than to subject your electronic circuits to daily heating/cooling and thus thermal stress from powering down your device daily just to charge.
it still does the same behaviour when off as it has a "charge mode" where the phone is in a none android state but on
you can run adb commands against it in this state so its clearly running a kernel
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Old August 20th, 2012, 04:14 PM   #23 (permalink)
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only when drunk
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Old August 20th, 2012, 04:23 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Old August 20th, 2012, 05:01 PM   #25 (permalink)
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simple answer to the question....no, not necessary
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Old August 21st, 2012, 12:14 AM   #26 (permalink)
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It's for this reason I usually don't charge overnight, and I generally don't leave the charger plugged in for an extended period once fully charged.

I typically go to bed w/enough battery life to make it through the night. I'll charge it in the early evening, if necessary.
You will be keeping the phone for at least 5 years I assume? If not, charging every night only means 730 charges in two years, while batteries are usually specced for 1000 charges and 10% loss of capacity in that time.

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There are other dimensions to this question. One is long term battery life. If kept between approximately 35% and 75% charge (this equates to a specific minimum and maximum voltage) the kind of Lithium Ion cells used on mobile devices can be charged and discharged 2000-3000 times. If charge cycles routinely go to 100% and down to 15% or less, the useful cycle life drops to around 400. If charging your device when you hit 30-35% and stopping when you reach 70-75% is too cumbersome for your schedule, you might at least want to alter your habit of keeping the device at 100%. The more time a Lithium Ion battery spends at full charge (4.2 volts), the shorter the total cycle count. This high voltage stresses and deteriorates the cells rapidly. This is only a snapshot of a much larger picture but it may be useful to a few of you.

As for charging with the phone on or off, one consideration is the rate of charge. Other things being equal, the slower the charge, the less heat build-up in the cells, and the longer the cell life. If leaving your phone on results in a slower charge, and you have the time, you will benefit in terms of long-term battery life. However, some chargers have the surplus capacity to charge your battery at the full rate and run your device at the same time. If so, it won't make any difference.
This is all true, but the impact is too low to care.


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simple answer to the question....no, not necessary
Exactly.

The only trick I have for charging overnight is using a low current charger. Instead of the factory one, I use a 500mA one and that is it.
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