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Old April 24th, 2013, 02:49 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Adding up the numbers, it appears that the unit Kevin reviewed actually has 18 GB storage - everything else tracks with Kexmonster's.

Or - they actually mounted /cache within the user data space, in which case, it's not 9.6 GB, it's 7.6 GB.

I've asked for further comments here as time allows.

PS - for those unfamiliar that's Phandroid's Kevin, author of Samsung Galaxy S4 Review

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Old April 24th, 2013, 03:33 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Weird. In the storage tab in settings, my 32gb shows 32gb at the top line and not something less. The available is what the real space is, but these examples seem allocated differently from any device I have seen before. Should show 16gb in the storage settings tab at the top and then the deductions.

And no, I am not talking external storage. I have a 64gb card and it is listed in the section below internal storage in the same page tab.
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Old April 24th, 2013, 03:43 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Whatever the figures, I believe it is criminal to say this is the Top of the Range or Flagship device.

Can you imagine how much space will be left in just a few months time, and that is not including the natural progression of App/Game development which will shrink the size further.

e.g. One of my medical Apps 3 months back had 1.02GB of data, which had to be included within the main Apps folder all on internal storage.
That same App today requires 1.34GB of space.

Yes I could root and transfer it all to the external storage but percentages wise apart from dedicated hardcore forum dwellers the majority of buyers especially from the business sector will not venture into rooting their device.

It will be they and 3D gamers who will suddenly realise what was the point having an expensive top of the range estate vehicle when all it holds is the storage of a mini.
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Old April 24th, 2013, 03:44 PM   #54 (permalink)
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rushmore -

Yeah. That's exactly why I don't trust settings for this info, it's never standardized.

Please try a df with Terminal Emulator with your device.

These sort of allocations are quite standard for Android.

You ought to see separate partitions for /system /cache /data and so on.

Android = embedded Linux + Dalvik Virtual Machine + apps that run in the Dalvik and call Linux services.

The standard Android/Linux allocations need to be there and the rest is just device and os-revision dependent.

~~~~~~~~

Beards -

You've underscored perfectly my earlier comment about the differences in the two approaches - hermetically sealed (HTC One) vs. sd-expandable.

For some segment of the market, having a sealed unit of sufficient size reduces the confusion and complexity.

With flexibility comes complexity and you have to be more careful to buy the model right for you.
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Old April 24th, 2013, 03:49 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rushmore View Post
Weird. In the storage tab in settings, my 32gb shows 32gb at the top line and not something less. The available is what the real space is, but these examples seem allocated differently from any device I have seen before. Should show 16gb in the storage settings tab at the top and then the deductions.

And no, I am not talking external storage. I have a 64gb card and it is listed in the section below internal storage in the same page tab.
Which device are you talking of?
My S3 16GB only shows 11.25GB Total Space for internal storage and of the 64GB Microsoft card that shows at the top 59.45GB Total Space.

Both these figures are what I would expect to see.
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Old April 24th, 2013, 03:54 PM   #56 (permalink)
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I have a stock Verizon 32gb S3. In the storage tab, it says 32.00 gb for "total space" at the very top and then calculates the breakout after a few seconds. My current available is 1.1gb.

My 64gb shows the same as yours.
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Old April 24th, 2013, 03:58 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by rushmore View Post
I have a stock Verizon 32gb S3. In the storage tab, it says 32.00 gb for "total space" at the very top and then calculates the breakout after a few seconds. My current available is 1.1gb.

My 64gb shows the same as yours.
I added the link to Terminal Emulator above.

Your stock 32 GB SGS3 never had 32 GB set aside just for you.
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Old April 24th, 2013, 04:02 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rushmore View Post
I have a stock Verizon 32gb S3. In the storage tab, it says 32.00 gb for "total space" at the very top and then calculates the breakout after a few seconds. My current available is 1.1gb.
That figure is not taking anything out for the OS or installed items before you get to use the device.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EarlyMon View Post
I added the link to Terminal Emulator above.

Your stock 32 GB SGS3 never had 32 GB set aside just for you.
Agreed.... All the OS, Firmware, installation, etc etc would have to be subtracted from the original 32GB.
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Old April 24th, 2013, 04:02 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Just saying what it says. I will send a pic when get home.

I forgot to give it time to calculate storage.


Screenshot.jpg

Second with storage breakout:

Screenshot2.jpg

BTW, I expect apologies for people doubting
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Old April 24th, 2013, 06:20 PM   #60 (permalink)
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I think I may be alright with a 16 GB model. I don't play games on my device, I've never played games on my smartphone. The most I do is stream stuff via NetFlix on WiFi, stream Slacker Radio, or play music that's stored on the device itself.

With the 32 GB MicroSD card that I have ready for the device, I figure that I'll have more than enough room for my music and other things.

I have a 32 GB Galaxy Nexus, 28.13 GBs of it is usable but I have 24.51 GBs of it that's available for use. Most of it is pictures, video, music, and some random downloads; all of which can live on the MicroSD card. Only about a GB of data is for apps and related data.
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Old April 24th, 2013, 06:23 PM   #61 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beards View Post
Whatever the figures, I believe it is criminal to say this is the Top of the Range or Flagship device.

Then do not buy it. Not sure why you persist to parrot this same thing in multiple threads and almost your every post.

The solution is simple, do not buy it.
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Old April 24th, 2013, 06:34 PM   #62 (permalink)
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Quote:
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BTW, I expect apologies for people doubting
Sorry, none from me - I never questioned that your setup display said that.

My point was that is filtered information, device dependent and cast in usage terms usually defined by marketing, and that we never see the proper story that way.

If I came across as doubting, I'll apologize for that without reservation.

You mentioned that the other allocations looked (however you put it) odd.

Take the Terminal Emulator / df challenge and map that to what your settings are telling you.

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Originally Posted by rkkeller View Post
Then do not buy it. Not sure why you persist to parrot this same thing in multiple threads and almost your every post.

The solution is simple, do not buy it.
Hey, if you don't like the guy, put him on ignore, it's a feature under your User CP link in the upper left of your browser page.

This is a sticking point for a lot of people and it's ok to hash, re-hash and iterate to solution.

This is the 32/64 GB thread, so anti-16 or other storage stuff is right on-topic here.

If you feel posts are derailing or off-topic in other threads, please just use the handy report button and we'll check them out.

I think we're all a little frustrated with conflicting info and having to wait.

Let's all just stay buds ok?
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Old April 24th, 2013, 09:04 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Given there has not been a peep on the 32 or 64 versions, it is all moot for now. I know that the S3 will do me until a viable 32GB or more device is available- WITH a micro SD slot. If for some bizarre reason VZW is not offering anything beyond the pseudo 16GB version (well, 9.6GB is almost fraud calling it 16GB), I will stick with the S3.
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Old April 24th, 2013, 09:50 PM   #64 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Wonder when something beyond 16GB versions will be sold......
Agreed...You snatchin the S4 up Rush?
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Old April 25th, 2013, 01:54 AM   #65 (permalink)
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Then do not buy it. Not sure why you persist to parrot this same thing in multiple threads and almost your every post.

The solution is simple, do not buy it.
Has nothing to do with my purchase, purely as seen from an observation and written solely to inform others who may not have picked up on it.

Just because I do not like the figures does not mean I will not purchase the 16GB S4. In fact that is happening, only due to the fact I can not source a 32GB/64GB Model.

P.S. I never get drawn into a conflict but make this an exception purely to explain. Here I am only commenting on an existing conversation.
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Old April 25th, 2013, 01:59 AM   #66 (permalink)
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Quote:
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BTW, I expect apologies for people doubting
Apologies if you thought I doubted your figures, certainly was not the case.
I was simply confused and intrigued in how you had 32GB showing as Total Storage.
I actually gave you a vote of thanks.
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Old April 25th, 2013, 07:49 AM   #67 (permalink)
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I was joking about the apologies, hence the:

As far as 32GB versions, I do not have a very good vibe right now, so: to that...

added:

This launch does not fit the S3 one at all and based on the reports yesterday, it is obvious Samsung launched too early. Perhaps VZW was smart with the 5/30 plan. At least as far as steady supply and 32GB versions. Assuming they will be offered.

Samsung said supply would be covered "in the coming weeks". Considering they just launched, you can not get any more vague. Very unSamsung, so the One and the coming 5s must have made them blink.
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Old April 25th, 2013, 07:53 AM   #68 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rushmore View Post
I was joking about the apologies, hence the:

As far as 32GB versions, I do not have a very good vibe right now, so: to that...

added:

This launch does not fit the S3 at all and based on the reports yesterday, it is obvious Samsung launched too early. Perhaps VZW was smart with the 5/30 plan. At least as far as 32GB versions. Assuming they will be offered.
Ah well, you still get my vote of thanks.
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Old April 25th, 2013, 08:08 AM   #69 (permalink)
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Verizon's preorder is up and NO 32gb option. Lame launch. They can keep their less then 10gb free device. Not seeing how anybody that uses many apps or plays games will like the storage. Not offering a 32gb version a YEAR after a 32gb version of the S3 when (as mentioned) app size and data size are INCREASING is pure stupid.

I hold on to vague hope a 32GB version is offered and this is due to Samsung launching too early.


added:

As mentioned in another thread, Android needs 500mb free storage to operate correctly, so free space is really less that 9.5gb. Update: I am apparently wrong, since if less than 9.7gb out of box, there is really about 9.2gb the user has.
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Old April 25th, 2013, 08:37 AM   #70 (permalink)
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Quote:
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As mentioned in another thread, Android needs 500mb free storage to operate correctly, so free space is really less that 9.5gb. Update: I am apparently wrong, since if less than 9.7gb out of box, there is really about 9.2gb the user has.
Kindly explain why Android needs 500 MB of user storage to operate correctly. I think that perhaps you're extrapolating from pre-Jellybean filesystem allocations.

Ah, from another thread -

Quote:
Well, whatever the actual free storage is minus the Android operational floor of 500mb. If you go below that, you can not update apps and some funtions start acting funky.
Ok, that's due to bad cleanup by the Play Store, a bug that's hounded them for years. Another reason to root and keep things cleaned up.

If 9 GB on a 16 GB model false advertising then isn't 24~26 GB on a 32 GB false advertising?
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Old April 25th, 2013, 08:38 AM   #71 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by sean76 View Post
Agreed...You snatchin the S4 up Rush?

Not unless Verizon offers a 32gb version. I have less than 2gb free on my 32gb S3, so no way a device with less than 10gb free out of box will work. No 32, no sale.

A lot of folks seem to not appreciate that an SD card does NOT add app storage. Offering this model only is nuts and an insult to heavier users.
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Old April 25th, 2013, 08:45 AM   #72 (permalink)
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Nope. Try and update apps with less than 500mb free. You will get low storage errors and some apps will not work correctly without the space.

My point in the advertising is they are starting to suck so much storage out of box, any sIze is almost getting near false advertising.

You all enjoy your device, but the tiny storage from my perspective is no sale.

Added:

Until I get confirmation that a 32gb will be offered, I will refrain from further posts unless I need to reply. Ain't buying this if only the 16gb version and only trolling now if posting as a result.

As far as the space, my understanding from Android team is Android expects to see some free storage to afford clean read and writes, since the OS is always busy. A key reason why iOS gets better battery life, BTW.

I have no desire to root. Just want the device that I paid for to work. Razr and S3 have been great without root
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Old April 25th, 2013, 08:59 AM   #73 (permalink)
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Per my previous screen shots, I have a little over 200 MB free in /data and don't have issues because I manage the Store's temporary storage.

This year's model may be taking up about a gig more storage than before, largely due to the s-features.

As I mentioned earlier, I've lived with a 10/16 GB model + sd card for nearly a year, and I prefer better on the next one. I really would prefer the 64 GB model and no sd card if I can get away with it.
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Old April 25th, 2013, 09:07 AM   #74 (permalink)
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Which is cool, but not for me. Hopefully the current lack of options is the early launch and a 32gb is offered. As my storage shows, I am already tapped out, so will need to remove a few apps even with the 32gb version. I use my S3 also as a MAME arcade station and the app works better if the roms are in the internal storage. Hence I am tapped out.

I use my device as an all in one. Hopefully the S4 will be my next device in a month or so...... if that is when a 32gb version is released.
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Old April 25th, 2013, 09:51 AM   #75 (permalink)
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Quote:
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A lot of folks seem to not appreciate that an SD card does NOT add app storage. Offering this model only is nuts and an insult to heavier users.
to the contrary, i think more android users appreciate the difference between on board and sd card storage (when it comes to app use) than you might be giving credit for.

imo the main factor is the type of user. it kinda comes down to gamers and non-gamers.

i'd consider myself a heavy user (mostly business and leisure) and have more than 70 apps installed on my phone (which use ~2gb on board storage), but only a handful of games. media is by far the storage hog on my phone taking up over 20gb. all that stuff can go on an 32 sd card i already have. if i need more media storage i'll get a 64 gb sd card.

i can see gamers who use their phone as their main gaming device having an issue with only 16gb of storage. especially since all that stuff likes to reside in on board memory. but even then, 32gb on board might eventually be too little for gamers. my nexus 7 is my gaming device and since i don't keep much media on it the 32gb on board works.

strategically i think this is a decent move for vzw since it doesn't put even more distance between their release and the other carriers who are releasing before them. who knows why there is a wait for the 32gb s4, but it is odd. the sliver lining seems to be that most the carriers are waiting for the 32gb version and there's the fact that this phone supports sd cards. so based on the type of user, the 16gb will probably suffice for the large majority of consumers.
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Old April 25th, 2013, 09:54 AM   #76 (permalink)
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Difference in price is just bonkers

http://oi34.tinypic.com/34ysfmu.jpg
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Old April 25th, 2013, 10:00 AM   #77 (permalink)
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Yeah, it seems the reason for 16gb only is an early launch, but I assume nothing. I might be with my 32gb S3 a lot longer than expected. Would like the S4, but value having my app content on my device a lot more than the step up the S4 would be.
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Old April 25th, 2013, 10:06 AM   #78 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gomjaba View Post
Difference in price is just bonkers

http://oi34.tinypic.com/34ysfmu.jpg
that's comparing the 16gb to the 64gb though...

in the us the difference between 16, 32, 64 might be around to $50. with new contract/renewal the 16gb is $199. i'd expect the 32gb to come in around $249 and 64gb maybe around $300. if they start pricing those models higher than that, it becomes cost prohibitive considering you can buy an sd card to make up the storage difference for less than what vzw is charging for the on board storage upgrade.
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Old April 25th, 2013, 10:13 AM   #79 (permalink)
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Do widgets count against the storage then? for me I don't play many games and the apps I will download shouldn't be too bad storage wise..the rest like music? will be on the SD card.
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Old April 25th, 2013, 10:17 AM   #80 (permalink)
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I would buy the 64gb if offered. Heck, I have a 128gb iPad 4.

Funny story this morning. A customer at a local corporate store asked as well about a 32gb version. The sales person actually told him you can transfer apps to the expandable storage. Jeepers. To avoid the inaccurate information, I politely corrected the salesman and he stated I was wrong. Double jeepers. The misinformed dude also knew better, but I could not keep quiet.

Yes, I was there asking about when a larger size would be offered, but based on the discussion above, not the best source for the answer.
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Old April 25th, 2013, 11:39 AM   #81 (permalink)
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Difference in price is just bonkers
The price for the 16GB there is bonkers, never mind the other! Their price without VAT is almost what most are charging with...
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Old April 25th, 2013, 11:42 AM   #82 (permalink)
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Not unless Verizon offers a 32gb version. I have less than 2gb free on my 32gb S3, so no way a device with less than 10gb free out of box will work. No 32, no sale.

A lot of folks seem to not appreciate that an SD card does NOT add app storage. Offering this model only is nuts and an insult to heavier users.

These days I need 32GB. I tried the 16GB route with the nexus 4 and I'm pretty much at my ceiling with space, so my next device has to be 32GB or more.

I was entertaining grabbing the 64GB HTC but am holding off for now...

But I don't know man, I might give the S4 a look, initially I was a little down on it but from reviews I'm hearing its a pretty awesome device! I'll take my trip down to at&t on Saturday and give it a whirl.
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Old April 25th, 2013, 11:48 AM   #83 (permalink)
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I plan on getting the S4 as long as a 32gb version is released. This launch so far seems it was quickly slapped together. Perhaps Samsung found out the 5s is releasing late spring, so they wanted to get rolling earlier than planned. My theory at least provides a little hope of a 32. If not, the S3 stays.
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Old April 25th, 2013, 12:19 PM   #84 (permalink)
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Trying to tidy up and get our storage discussions and how that affects us in one place.
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Old April 25th, 2013, 02:48 PM   #85 (permalink)
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Do widgets count against the storage then? for me I don't play many games and the apps I will download shouldn't be too bad storage wise..the rest like music? will be on the SD card.
Yes - however - depending on the widget, they often don't take up much.
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Old April 25th, 2013, 05:44 PM   #86 (permalink)
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Yes - however - depending on the widget, they often don't take up much.
for apps that have a widget function those aren't usually considered additional storage space, right? the widgets are usually downloaded at the same time as the app.
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Old April 25th, 2013, 05:45 PM   #87 (permalink)
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Yes, part of the app
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Old April 25th, 2013, 10:23 PM   #88 (permalink)
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I represent that majority. Don't game on my phone. Use for business, surfing web, photos etc. I don't even load any music on my phone as that's what my Ipod is for.

I just checked my (Don't Laugh Please) Droid Bionic and still have 7.7GB available and I have had this useless piece of junk for 2 years.

I do understand the gamers point for more storage.

You would also think it would make more sense to offer this during pre orders as the carriers would have additional time to fill those orders and early ordering would be an indicator as to what the masses are looking for.



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to the contrary, i think more android users appreciate the difference between on board and sd card storage (when it comes to app use) than you might be giving credit for.

imo the main factor is the type of user. it kinda comes down to gamers and non-gamers.

i'd consider myself a heavy user (mostly business and leisure) and have more than 70 apps installed on my phone (which use ~2gb on board storage), but only a handful of games. media is by far the storage hog on my phone taking up over 20gb. all that stuff can go on an 32 sd card i already have. if i need more media storage i'll get a 64 gb sd card.

i can see gamers who use their phone as their main gaming device having an issue with only 16gb of storage. especially since all that stuff likes to reside in on board memory. but even then, 32gb on board might eventually be too little for gamers. my nexus 7 is my gaming device and since i don't keep much media on it the 32gb on board works.

strategically i think this is a decent move for vzw since it doesn't put even more distance between their release and the other carriers who are releasing before them. who knows why there is a wait for the 32gb s4, but it is odd. the sliver lining seems to be that most the carriers are waiting for the 32gb version and there's the fact that this phone supports sd cards. so based on the type of user, the 16gb will probably suffice for the large majority of consumers.
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Old April 26th, 2013, 07:41 AM   #89 (permalink)
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I do not think VZW or others (in NA) have intent on selling anything higher anytime soon. The common answer from several stores has been "You can transfer and install apps on the sd card". Their own staff are telling customers this and even a sales rep on a call commented this as well. Scary ignorant and misleading customers.

If you are not a gamer or do not use some of the more data hungry apps, the 9-ish gb free is plenty. There are about 30% (edit: 15% is more accurate) of us (that buy this device segment type) though that do want the additional space for apps. The average EA and Gameloft game now as example is 1.5GB when including data stored by the app.

There is a rumor being pushed by some media the reason the 32GB S3 was retired was demand for bigger storage was nill. This is incorrect. They retired the 32GB to position the 16GB S3 as a lower cost entry contract device now that the S4 has been released.

Catch is there is no 32GB version of the S4 to fill the void. For that matter, there appears to be none anywhere yet.

Added:

Wonder why Samsung decided to rush this launch? Bigger display 5s on the way? Doubtful, but you never know.
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Old April 26th, 2013, 08:37 AM   #90 (permalink)
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^ 30% of the total target audience seems kind of high. samsung is a smart company and spends tons of money on advertising and market analysis. i'm thinking they must have results hinting of little impact to holding out the 32gb version since they offer the sd expansion. could also be related to price point and profit margin mix of manufacturing/selling the 32gb vs the 16gb.

that said, i am surprised 32gb isn't on the radar since almost all recent flagship phones on vzw were released with the 32gb option if it were available. perhaps they're holding out the 32gb version and higher to steal some of apple's thunder later down the road?

memory is cheap and ubiquitous so them not offering the 32gb or higher has to be a strategic decision and not an oversight...at least, that's what i would think...
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Old April 26th, 2013, 08:38 AM   #91 (permalink)
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This is the same way that the SGS2 was released 2 years ago. Afair, ATT never had other than the 16 GB SGS3. When the SGS3 was announced, the 64 GB model was stipulated to come later - and it was much later lol.

With 2 motherboards/processors and all of the radio variations, starting with a single storage model seems more like a typical Samsung release than the SGS3 was.

The pent-up demand from SGS and SGS2 upgraders is probably going to move the 16 GB version as quickly as they can stock them.

I don't know if rushed to market is the right term, or yeah, maybe it is. But it wouldn't help them to wait in the face of this year's competition. This year the new Samsung is just not eclipsing everything else in the press by any means.

As for reps telling people that apps can go on the sd card, meh, they've been saying that to people for three years.

That's why we're here, so people can get the facts.
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Old April 26th, 2013, 08:51 AM   #92 (permalink)
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If I recall correctly, moving apps to sd was a feature of froyo or gingerbread (can't remember which one) that was disabled with ICS. I remember doing it on my old Droid Charge 2 years ago. With fragmentation across many devices with many being left on these old OSs, it may not be technically incorrect for the rep to say it given the context. But you are right that it should not be assumed to be true on these newer devices.
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Old April 26th, 2013, 09:04 AM   #93 (permalink)
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I think that it was Froyo and there was an Eclair app for it before that. (edit, maybe it was Gingerbread lol)

And it's never worked right because most devs continued to write data to /data partition.

And they still do.

And of those writing elsewhere, they're making a standard system call to see where storage is. On an older phone, that call returns the sd card. On newer models it doesn't, it points to internal storage whether you have an sd card or not.

Sorry app devs, but sloppy design and coding practices are at the root of the problem here.
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Old April 26th, 2013, 09:28 AM   #94 (permalink)
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Please note I stated 30 (which is really 15%- wrong on the 30) percent based on the specific segment of devices and not all in general.

As noted before, I guessed the reason for a 16gb only was production expediency to cover what seems to be a hasty launch to fill channels.

That said, the S3 was also a highly anticipated launch, but had 32gb out of the gate. Catch was the launch was on weighted average, a month later in relation to global area launch. The S3 launch was more staggered in that regard.
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Old April 26th, 2013, 09:46 AM   #95 (permalink)
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I think that it was Froyo and there was an Eclair app for it before that. (edit, maybe it was Gingerbread lol)
It was introduced officially in Froyo, but the GB implementation was better (moved lib as well as apk). But as everyone says, they won't be selling any devices which still have that feature.

Ah, sales reps not knowing what they are talking about is hardly new. When I was buying my first phone one told me that Vodafone were GSM but Cellnet (O2 now) used their own, different digital technology. As far as I could tell this was because Voda used "GSM" in their marketing and Cellnet did not, so he'd made up a story based on that. So reps peddling info that's out of date but was once true is not even the worst
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Old April 26th, 2013, 09:48 AM   #96 (permalink)
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Sorry app devs, but sloppy design and coding practices are at the root of the problem here.
I can see that as a huge influence.. but I'm trying to wrap my mind around it taking over across so many manufacturers, with no (that I can see) carrier/provider resistance (meaning, "give us back one of our best marketing blings, you guys: this is basic Android stuff, we're not Apple.. blah etc").
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Old April 26th, 2013, 10:17 AM   #97 (permalink)
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In case it hasn't been mentioned, in my AT&T 16GB GS4:

9.72GB is remaining for user use.

I have about 199 apps installed and now I have 6.93GB free. According to the phone, 2.04GB is used for apps so the rest is used for miscellaneous stuff.

I am not a big gamer and really at most would have a few games so this would work for me. For people who install a bunch of 1-2GB games, though, I can see this being an issue.

Pretty happy so far and I do love the screen (my primary reason to upgrade from GS3)... I wish my case would come so I'm not as terrified when holding onto it bare.

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Old April 26th, 2013, 10:49 AM   #98 (permalink)
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I can see that as a huge influence.. but I'm trying to wrap my mind around it taking over across so many manufacturers, with no (that I can see) carrier/provider resistance (meaning, "give us back one of our best marketing blings, you guys: this is basic Android stuff, we're not Apple.. blah etc").
Excellent point - how did we get here?

I think we know what happened and I'm pretty sure we can say how it happened - but why it happened? That I don't know.

You and I have discussed the apps to sd card debacle before and how, thanks to no user root out of the box, we can't change allocations. I've since refined our previous discussion and updated it for Jellybean, I'll quote it here to save a jump -






I'm running ICS right now (yep, ICS where everything I like just works) and I just checked.

I have 360 apps installed, over a hundred are mine. To see what an app is about, the obligatory equation:

Android = embedded Linux OS + Dalvik Virtural Machine + apps that run in the Dalvik and call Linux services

About 240 included apps in /system/app -> 350 MB
My apps (includes some updates to included apps) in /data/app -> 477 MB
Dalvik runs with a cache, like a browser, so /data/dalvik-cache -> 340 MB
And basic data for those apps, /data/data -> 1,103 MB aka 1.1 GB

My total /data allocation -> 2.1 GB
Used -> 1.9 GB
Free -> 222 MB

And then after all of that comes my internal user storage (the famously so-called internal sdcard in GB and ICS, now just called /storage in Jellybean, but it's still the same thing) -> 9.9 GB

My camera knows to put pictures in that 9.9 GB slot (even lets me point to my actual sd card instead) - but its config data lives in /data/data.

My book reader knows how to send its books to that 9.9 GB area but it's oblivious to the fact that I have an sd card (unless I manage books there by hand with my file explorer) and its config data also lives in /data/data.

But I have more apps than I can name that simply believes that all that exists is /data/data and as I mentioned earlier, plenty of others that simply can't fathom that I might actually have two sdcard-like user storage partitions.

That all adds up to exactly why I want to try a fixed 64 GB model without an sd card at all, if I can get away with it. I reserve the right to change my mind, lol, but I wouldn't mind giving one a spin. It's a convenient solution to the problem.

Legacy apps and legacy app practices are not going to change. Lack of foresight by app developers is not going to change.

Google keeps "helping" us:

We get to use MTP to access storage. How a Windows protocol made its way into a basic Linux operating system still escapes and baffles me, but that's what we got.

They're hiding storage allocation facts by saying that you have places for Pictures, Music and so forth when you look at your storage in Jellybean. On the surface, that all sounds very user friendly. The reality of our thousands of support threads with people trying to figure out where the heck their stuff is so that they can get to it tells me it's not as friendly as Google believes.

As long as we have fixed filesystem allocations, it's going to continue to be a problem.

Android's use of FUSE - a way of creating virtual filesystems on top of the actual ones - together with large-storage devices - is a huge step in the right direction.

But I have 1.1 GB of app data in /data/data and an sd card with a slow interface that is formatted with a Windows scheme as stunning examples of what forced us into today's climate.

Old phones with sd cards and small storage could always operate without the sd card - and - you could interchange sd cards and the phone would still work. Those are the key points of how we got here. And those were good features. But that's why apps to sd is defective by design.
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Old April 26th, 2013, 11:37 AM   #99 (permalink)
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Just a few of my games eat that 9.7gb space up: Conduit, Dead Trigger, Espagauda II, Ikaruga, NBA Jam, Zen Pinball, NOVA 3, and GTA, Shadowgun and Asphalt 7. All games I like to play and have no desire to app juggle them and my other apps and games- not to mention not wanting to start from scratch again.

What is the point of the fancy chipsets for fancy 3D graphics for phones when the devices have in comparison, low storage? Kind of like building a big shopping mall with little parking space Again, the issue is CHOICE- if you want the 16gb cool and ditto for the 32gb model. As it stands now though, it appears choice is not in play as far as the S4 in NA.

added:

I was hoping the LG Pro G might make it to VZW, but looks like it will not. That was my next choice if the 32GB S4 did not pan out.
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Old April 26th, 2013, 11:48 AM   #100 (permalink)
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That's Post of the Year, for me, EM. Info.

But what is it with the hundreds of apps you guys have?

Never mind.. don't want to derail this, one of the best threads around, imo.
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