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Old April 21st, 2013, 05:36 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Can someone tell me why we can't get a 32 or 64 gig phone?

Im really confused to why this has never happened my daughter has a 64 gig iphone 5 it seems simple enough?

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Old April 21st, 2013, 05:52 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Im really confused to why this has never happened my daughter has a 64 gig iphone 5 it seems simple enough?
Because we have SD cards. Why pay $100 more for 16GB internal storage when you can pick up a 16GBmicro SD card for $10
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Old April 21st, 2013, 07:24 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Because we have SD cards. Why pay $100 more for 16GB internal storage when you can pick up a 16GBmicro SD card for $10
Or 50 something bucks on a 64 GB card:

Amazon.com: SanDisk Ultra 64 GB MicroSDXC Class 10 UHS-1 Memory Card with Adapter (SDSDQU-064G-AFFP-A): Electronics
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Old April 21st, 2013, 08:05 PM   #4 (permalink)
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thats not a reason tho the phone companies are not looking out for our best interest there has to be a reason
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Old April 21st, 2013, 08:08 PM   #5 (permalink)
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the phones are made with 64 gig storage but we dont get them
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Old April 21st, 2013, 08:58 PM   #6 (permalink)
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the phones are made with 64 gig storage but we dont get them
Paying 10x as much to have the storage in the phone rather than being able to take of put and transfer it to your computer or your next phone isn't in your best interest

The carriers don't stock it because people are smart enough not to buy them.
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Old April 21st, 2013, 09:53 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I don't mind paying extra for as much internal storage as I can get.
If they have 32GB, I'll take one, If they have 64GB, I'll take one.
If they have 16GB, I don't want one.
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Old April 21st, 2013, 09:59 PM   #8 (permalink)
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But why the reliance on internal?
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Old April 21st, 2013, 10:02 PM   #9 (permalink)
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i understand we can buy buy micro sd cards i have a 64 gig myself it still dose not explain why they dont sell them to us because we will buy them only reason i can think of is some kind of deal was made so we would go buy these micro sd cards but that just dont make sense to me
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Old April 21st, 2013, 10:46 PM   #10 (permalink)
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i understand we can buy buy micro sd cards i have a 64 gig myself it still dose not explain why they dont sell them to us because we will buy them only reason i can think of is some kind of deal was made so we would go buy these micro sd cards but that just dont make sense to me
I'm sure that it's because the studies they've done show that the 64GB versions would not be popular enough to justify the cost of keeping an inventory of them. Space in the warehouses and store shelves means less of another product that they could sell. The difference with the iPhone is that there is no competition for that whereas for Samsung, you have HTC and other companies that compete for the space.
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Old April 21st, 2013, 10:58 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I'm sure that it's because the studies they've done show that the 64GB versions would not be popular enough to justify the cost of keeping an inventory of them. Space in the warehouses and store shelves means less of another product that they could sell. The difference with the iPhone is that there is no competition for that whereas for Samsung, you have HTC and other companies that compete for the space.
Correct. They're typically offered overseas, but in the US carriers don't carry them because there's not enough perceived demand
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Old April 21st, 2013, 11:07 PM   #12 (permalink)
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With everything else getting maxed out I bet we start seeing 128gb internal memory soon.
We don't need any more resolution or cores at this point in the game.
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Old April 21st, 2013, 11:49 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Rxpert83 View Post
Correct. They're typically offered overseas, but in the US carriers don't carry them because there's not enough perceived demand
^this...

since release I think I have sold maybe 2 64 gb iphone 5's

In the big picture most people don't need that much storage.

plus there is the whole cloud storage debate
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Old April 22nd, 2013, 01:43 AM   #14 (permalink)
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But why the reliance on internal?
One reason why internal storage is premium is due to Apps downloaded.

It is not the App itself that is the issue but the associated additional data downloaded after the App installation that consumes internal storage space.

Many games and quite a few productivity program's require a user to download an additional 1GB or 2GB+ of additional data files just to use the App.

In the past it was not an issue because we were allowed to use apps such as Apps2SD to transfer Apps and their associated data files to an external storage card. However, with Jelly Bean and so on Google removed the option of using external storage as the place for Apps and associated data files to be stored.
Simple reason Google do not like you using external storage.

Now, back to the problem of app installation using the internal storage:-
If you have a device with 16GB such as the S4, once you switch on for the very first time you will immediately notice that 16GB has been reduced to 10GB.
This is as you know due to the installation of Android OS, Carrier specific Apps and any additional branded OS made by the manufacturer.

Okay, so with only 10GB remaining say you install one game that requires a total of 1.8GB storage..... Now you have 8.2GB remaining.
Do this a few time and it will not be long before you find all your internal storage has been used.

Step this problem further:-
These figures are based on today's downloads.
The thing is as I am sure you are aware, developers will continue to enhance their Apps and Games which in turn requires additional storage. As such a single App and Data today may be 1.8GB but in say 6 months it could be 2GB.
This seriously reduces the longevity of the 16GB device.

So, do I think 16GB is enough especially on what is deemed a Flagship phone.... Not a chance.

With Apps and Games only being allowed to be stored on the internal storage space and these same Apps and Games ever increasing in size, the only answer is to have larger internal storage space.
16GB is clearly not enough.
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Old April 22nd, 2013, 01:48 AM   #15 (permalink)
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^this...

since release I think I have sold maybe 2 64 gb iphone 5's

In the big picture most people don't need that much storage.

plus there is the whole cloud storage debate
Price is probably the reason, not the additional storage itself.
Yes, most people may not need it but read my comments above on App installation with additional Data to see small 16GB storage is not enough.

Cloud storage can not be relied upon.
1. Costs are still too expensive for continued Cloud usage.
2. Coverage is still not good enough. It is patchy and temperamental at best.
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Old April 22nd, 2013, 07:10 AM   #16 (permalink)
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The 64GB is almost $300 more here in the UK compared to the 16GB model .. Whilst I would prefer more internal storage (don't even know why lol), I don't prefer it $300 worth
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Old April 22nd, 2013, 07:30 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Android users like to root and get apps to sd and all that. Big removable sd cards are there for us as a choice and the phone can be an inexpensive one or the latest and greatest.

With iPhone you just pay the big bucks for the internal storage or not. That's their market. It works for them, at least some of them for a while; we see many iPhone refugees here.
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Old April 22nd, 2013, 07:51 AM   #18 (permalink)
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It's just an easy way for them to milk money from us, HTC and Samsung advertise 64GB versions but most countries only get the 16GB/32GB versions.
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Old April 22nd, 2013, 08:14 AM   #19 (permalink)
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The 64GB is almost $300 more here in the UK compared to the 16GB model .. Whilst I would prefer more internal storage (don't even know why lol), I don't prefer it $300 worth
Agree, charging over the odds prices should not happen, especially when they do not want us to use external memory.

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Android users like to root and get apps to sd and all that. Big removable sd cards are there for us as a choice and the phone can be an inexpensive one or the latest and greatest.

With iPhone you just pay the big bucks for the internal storage or not. That's their market. It works for them, at least some of them for a while; we see many iPhone refugees here.
The thing is though not everyone will want to root their device. That and the fact the likes of Samsung do not like owners rooting their devices.
As such given the situation of storage space manufacturers should at the very least provide larger storage models at realistic prices.

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It's just an easy way for them to milk money from us, HTC and Samsung advertise 64GB versions but most countries only get the 16GB/32GB versions.
I agree, it is shocking the amount they ask but are not prepared to meet us half way.


Finally ~ At least Apple gives you choice albeit at a heavy cost but the choice is there.
If you wish to place an order for a larger storage model you either purchase one Directly from Apple Online or through one of their Apple Stores.
Android manufacturers do not have this. All sales are done either through Carriers or Wholesalers who do not like to stock due to high costs.
The only way to guarantee a larger storage model is for the likes of Samsung to go the same route as Apple in having direct Online and High Street purchase.

Again if Google wishes us to use internal storage and cloud services they should at the very least look at manufacturers providing cheaper storage and reliable/cheaper cloud cover.
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Old April 22nd, 2013, 10:08 AM   #20 (permalink)
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So, do I think 16GB is enough especially on what is deemed a Flagship phone.... Not a chance.

I would disagree. 16gb and an SD card for music/video/picture/document storage is fine for the majority of people. Your 10gb estimate can literally hold hundreds of normal apps like FB, Twitter, GVoice, Weather, camera apps, radios and games like Words with Friends, Angry Birds, etc.... with no problem.

There are actually very few apps that require more than 1 gig of space when compared to the total number of apps available so it's not like this is the norm.

Do not buy it if it's not what you want but I and a lot of others are fine with it.
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Old April 23rd, 2013, 11:21 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Default Where is the 32GB version??

Considering the app size trend for games and other apps, why would Samsung not have the 32GB version as part of the launch mix (and a heavier mix than the S3 launch)? Per Verizon and Best Buy, the S3 sold far more 32GB versions than expected and had supply issues as a result for several weeks in many channels.

Why not learn from this and have all your ducks in a row? Seems the theory may be correct that Samsung is pushing out earlier than planned to offset the One and the impending iPhone 5s and trying to keep clean pushing the 16GB first, since still will be the majority of the mix.

Added:

Even the Best Buy preorder is color only, with no size option. Unlike the S3 that was color and size for preorder from Best Buy. I got mine at launch from there through preorder- ordered the 32GB blue the first day they started offering preorders.
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Old April 23rd, 2013, 11:40 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Maybe because of the microSD card slot. Just a guess since neither the One or the iPhone 5s(or 6?) will have/has a microSD card slot.
And, a 16GB microSD card would be cheaper than paying an extra $50 for the 32GB variant.
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Old April 23rd, 2013, 11:45 AM   #23 (permalink)
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The S3 has one as well and the 32GB sold about twice as many as VZW expected. SD cards do not help much for app installs. The internal space is mapped for the app security core and the data install. SD card does not help and is mostly worthless for apps, but important for media storage.

With app sizes growing, 16GB is quickly becoming like 8GB devices from previous years.

Added:

Still, the question is where is the 32GB version? Samsung is offering them, but no sign, unlike for the S3 launch. Answer seems to be Samsung has made a tactical decision to launch earlier than planned.
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Old April 23rd, 2013, 12:57 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Wonder when something beyond 16GB versions will be sold......
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Old April 23rd, 2013, 01:56 PM   #25 (permalink)
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^I agree.

And many apps can't cope with the idea that many phones now have internal storage that per Google (yeah - I know) takes the place of an sd card, and will only write there, even if you have an sd card. So even though adding storage via an sd card is cheaper, it's not the option that serves everyone.

So based on that - where are the 32 and 64 GB versions? How soon will they come?

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Yes, most people may not need it but read my comments above on App installation with additional Data to see small 16GB storage is not enough.
I don't know who most people are or what they want.

I do know that many apps will use internal storage no matter what sd card you have plugged in, so I agree with you - larger is an important option.

Samsung agrees with us - that's why they announced larger storage versions.

Can't say I'm liking the price differences I'm reading about though.
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Old April 23rd, 2013, 02:03 PM   #26 (permalink)
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The 32 and 64 discussions were the same, except by degrees - so - I merged them.
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Old April 23rd, 2013, 04:46 PM   #27 (permalink)
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^I agree.

And many apps can't cope with the idea that many phones now have internal storage that per Google (yeah - I know) takes the place of an sd card, and will only write there, even if you have an sd card. So even though adding storage via an sd card is cheaper, it's not the option that serves everyone.

So based on that - where are the 32 and 64 GB versions? How soon will they come?



I don't know who most people are or what they want.

I do know that many apps will use internal storage no matter what sd card you have plugged in, so I agree with you - larger is an important option.

Samsung agrees with us - that's why they announced larger storage versions.

Can't say I'm liking the price differences I'm reading about though.
I do not know who most people are or what they want either EarlyMon, I only said most people may not want simply to appease Mr. Ed. To avoid any negativity either back towards myself or the forum as a whole.

However, in reality ~ I work with a large number of medical staff who use their phones mostly for business.
Most of my co workers are like myself, surgeon's. We each have several medical apps installed on our phones and most have large data file requirements which can only be installed to the main storage space.

So based on my personal experiences the wording most people actually does apply.

Interestingly, last year I operated on a senior representative whom for obvious reasons I can not mention his/her name or business they came from.
During his/her stay in hospital we had a long chat on this problem. It was he/she who informed me the main problem with manufacturers and storage is simply costs.
I could not believe my ears when he/she informed me the larger storage devices at launch are sold to Wholesalers with extremely little profit. This is because expected sales numbers of larger storage devices are much lower and as such cost the manufacturer more to purchase themselves.
The main profit is where the manufacturer can buy or build in bulk or cut corners with the hardware, storage space being one of such.
It is only later when either expected predicted sales or demand for the larger storage devices are high enough for greater bulk purchase will the manufacturer commit to a world wide production pattern.

It seems quite unbelievable given the extortionate costs and differences in prices between a 16GB to a 32GB/64GB that they say it is not cost effective to sell the larger storage model, not until that is they can purchase/build bulk hardware.
You would think larger sales would drive prices down.....
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Old April 23rd, 2013, 04:54 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Flash memory chips are produced practically at capacity all of the time, leading to more fab startups so that offsets costs.

Samsung flash memory may possibly be the best there is, they've been on the cutting edge in smaller geometry/higher speeds for a few years now, so some higher cost there doesn't surprise me at all.

I didn't mean anything snarky about the most people thing, nor did I infer anything on your part, apologies if I came across that way.
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Old April 23rd, 2013, 05:09 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Flash memory chips are produced practically at capacity all of the time, leading to more fab startups so that offsets costs.

Samsung flash memory may possibly be the best there is, they've been on the cutting edge in smaller geometry/higher speeds for a few years now, so some higher cost there doesn't surprise me at all.

I didn't mean anything snarky about the most people thing, nor did I infer anything on your part, apologies if I came across that way.
None taken and no apology needed EarlyMon.
I just felt I needed to explain my post better that is all.

A pleasure in communicating with you.

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Old April 23rd, 2013, 05:17 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Samsung is and probably will be the world's largest supplier of NAND flash memory chips for the foreseeable future.

Just recently Samsung really "hit it out of the ballpark" with their new Samsung 840 Series SSD drives which includes the 840 and 840 Pro series SSDs. Both of them are smash hits in the tech world and getting rave reviews. I can imagine that most of the NAND flash memory that Samsung produces goes towards the manufacturing of those SSDs and whatever is left over is "given" to the wireless division. I can't imagine Samsung wanting to gut the profits from the SSD market just to satisfy some Galaxy S4 customers. The SSD market is already huge and it's only going to get larger. So that means that Samsung is either going to have to step up in the fabrication of more NAND flash memory or one of two things is going to happen: the price of the flash memory is going to go up OR Samsung is going to continue to limit the amount of higher capacity smart phones.

So yeah, I do think that the theory that Beards posted about carries a lot of weight.
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Old April 23rd, 2013, 05:24 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Gomjaba View Post
The 64GB is almost $300 more here in the UK compared to the 16GB model .. Whilst I would prefer more internal storage (don't even know why lol), I don't prefer it $300 worth
that brings up another good question why do they charge so high for the extra memory when its so cheap to get them separately on a micro sd card?
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Old April 23rd, 2013, 05:31 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Probably because the NAND flash memory buried inside the phone is what is commonly known in the tech world as MLC (Multi-Level Cell, typically two layer) NAND Flash Memory. That stuff is expensive to make. That's why SSDs for computers have been traditionally a luxury item.

MicroSD cards more than likely use TLC (Triple-Level Cell) NAND Flash Memory. It's much cheaper to make but has less life expectancy than MLC NAND.

Up until very recently, all SSDs for computers have been MLC NAND but that changed with the Samsung 840 Series SSD which uses TLC NAND. They say that it has great write life but they have to do a lot of work in Digital Signal Processing to make that happen. And for cheap MicroSD cards, you can bet that "extra work" isn't going to go into those chips.
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Old April 23rd, 2013, 05:45 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Buy now, the industry is predicting insufficient flash memory to meet SSD demand in the second half of this year.
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Old April 23rd, 2013, 05:58 PM   #34 (permalink)
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I can imagine so. SSDs are hot items. The demand for SSDs is far more than the supply of NAND Flash Memory.

Glad I got the pair of Samsung 840 Series SSDs when I did. These things are truly amazing when you put them into a computer. Makes the thing take off like a rocket. Even older computers can really seem like a new computer all over again when you put an SSD into it.

So yes, I can really see why NAND Flash Memory is in such high demand. People want smart phones with lots of storage capacity along with SSDs. There's only so much NAND flash memory to go around.
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Old April 23rd, 2013, 06:00 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by trparky View Post
I can imagine so. SSDs are hot items. The demand for SSDs is far more than the supply of NAND Flash Memory.

Glad I got the pair of Samsung 840 Series SSDs when I did.
With smartphones outselling PCs, I wouldn't guess - if you've checked, I believe you.
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Old April 23rd, 2013, 06:06 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Well, maybe in the normal market there's not much of a demand for PCs but the enthusiast market is a completely different animal. The geeks, the hard core geeks, still want their PCs. And what do they want? SSDs.

Don't count the enthusiast market out. There's still a lot of people out there that feel that they'd have to have their PCs pried from their cold dead hands.

Myself, I have a smart phone (obviously) but I do have my PCs, two of them. A desktop and a notebook. If you ask me, contrary to popular belief, the PC isn't going anywhere!
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Old April 24th, 2013, 05:11 AM   #37 (permalink)
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There are actually very few apps that require more than 1 gig of space when compared to the total number of apps available so it's not like this is the norm.
It depends on the type of apps you download, it's already been said a few times but there are loads of 3d games that take upto 2GB each.

Your space is gone in no time at all.
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Old April 24th, 2013, 07:56 AM   #38 (permalink)
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If you are not a gamer, the 12GB free should be fine. If you are a gamer, 12GB by any stetch is not enough. That is unless you only play a few games and then app juggle. All of the newer Gameloft and EA games (as example) are over 1GB and then add at least 500mb of data. The average 3D game loads 400MB, and this is weighted due to a lot of older 3D games that were made before the newer chipsets became common.

Added:

You will not find many A level titles that are less than 750mb, if 3D.

BTW, the install total that the market shows is NOT the actual total on the device. Understated.
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Old April 24th, 2013, 08:35 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by rushmore View Post
If you are not a gamer, the 12GB free should be fine. If you are a gamer, 12GB by any stetch is not enough. That is unless you only play a few games and then app juggle. All of the newer Gameloft and EA games (as example) are over 1GB and then add at least 500mb of data. The average 3D game loads 400MB, and this is weighted due to a lot of older 3D games that were made before the newer chipsets became common.

Added:

You will not find many A level titles that are less than 750mb, if 3D.

BTW, the install total that the market shows is NOT the actual total on the device. Understated.
It's not even 12GB remaining.
It's 9.6GB remains after you first switch on.

It's also not just games that are effected either.
I have quite a few program's that have heavy data files.
I won't mention any of the medical Apps but I also have SkySafari Pro which requires a total of 850MB of storage.

As you correctly say in order to run these Apps I for one will have to juggle install/uninstall which is hardly what I would call to be asked of a Flag Ship device.
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Old April 24th, 2013, 09:16 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Point being, an sd card is NOT the solution for app storage. More internal storage is. The "16GB" model is a bad choice for gamers and some other user categories. Launching with only the 16GB a year after having a 16GB and 32GB ready for launch seems pure nuts unless Samsung had no choice- earlier than planned launch a likely reason.
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Old April 24th, 2013, 09:24 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rushmore View Post
Point being, an sd card is NOT the solution for app storage. More internal storage is. The "16GB" model is a bad choice for gamers and some other user categories. Launching with only the 16GB a year after having a 16GB and 32GB ready for launch seems pure nuts unless Samsung had no choice- earlier than planned launch a likely reason.
Totally Agree.
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Old April 24th, 2013, 09:39 AM   #42 (permalink)
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9.6GB/16GB? I guessed 12GB/16GB based on format space, OS, stock apps and 500mb Android operational floor. Wonder what else is eating space?
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Old April 24th, 2013, 11:42 AM   #43 (permalink)
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We can ask Kexmonster to give us a snapshot of the storage use. I'll ask him.

It's not difficult, doesn't require root (just enter df into Terminal Emulator) - but the actual numbers will vary by region due to radio types.

For a point of reference - just a sneak peek for the idea iow - here's what my LTEvo looks like, 16 GB + 64 GB sd card, note that my internal sd is 9.9 GB but the tool displays it as 9. Taking that into account, the screenshot provided accounts for 15 of the 16 GB built-in, and cannot show the bootloader or recovery because they're below the operating system.


TL/DR -

Of the 16 GB, you have to allocate for the bootloader, recovery, radio firmware, and each Android filesystem - nothing comes without consuming storage.


Picture is NOT from an SGS4.
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Old April 24th, 2013, 12:17 PM   #44 (permalink)
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9.6GB/16GB? I guessed 12GB/16GB based on format space, OS, stock apps and 500mb Android operational floor. Wonder what else is eating space?
If you have a look at androidcentrals review of the S4 and scroll down to the section marked 'Galaxy S4 Internal Hardware and Performance' you will notice they mention of the original 16GB only 9.62GB were remaining.
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Old April 24th, 2013, 12:40 PM   #45 (permalink)
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That by any stretch is excessive. Me thinks there could be many folks regretting their 16gb purchase. That is so disproportionate it seems like false advertisement calling them 16 or 32gb. Dang.
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Old April 24th, 2013, 01:13 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EarlyMon View Post
We can ask Kexmonster to give us a snapshot of the storage use. I'll ask him.

It's not difficult, doesn't require root (just enter df into Terminal Emulator) - but the actual numbers will vary by region due to radio types.

For a point of reference - just a sneak peek for the idea iow - here's what my LTEvo looks like, 16 GB + 64 GB sd card, note that my internal sd is 9.9 GB but the tool displays it as 9. Taking that into account, the screenshot provided accounts for 15 of the 16 GB built-in, and cannot show the bootloader or recovery because they're below the operating system.


TL/DR -

Of the 16 GB, you have to allocate for the bootloader, recovery, radio firmware, and each Android filesystem - nothing comes without consuming storage.


Picture is NOT from an SGS4.
Here's the snapshot:


EDIT: This is from a SGS4. As you can see, this only has 7,65GB total storage. I don't know if that's because this is a demo-phone or what :S
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Old April 24th, 2013, 01:16 PM   #47 (permalink)
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That by any stretch is excessive. Me thinks there could be many folks regretting their 16gb purchase. That is so disproportionate it seems like false advertisement calling them 16 or 32gb. Dang.
As I recall, in some countries they can't. I've seen localized web pages from manufacturers calling out only user-accessible storage from time to time.

This phone has a lot of features.

In our world, features means just one thing: apps.

Between the s-features, Jellybean, Touchwiz and room for updates, I'll be surprised if /system is less than a 2 GB allocation. (edit - ninja'd by Kexmonster, it's 2.69 GB on his sample)

Your SGS3 wasn't much different in this regard, this isn't a new thing.
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Old April 24th, 2013, 01:48 PM   #48 (permalink)
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This is also stock and before anyone tried to delete/remove the bloat and sample pics, videos and all that junk.
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Old April 24th, 2013, 02:16 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kexmonster View Post
Here's the snapshot:


EDIT: This is from a SGS4. As you can see, this only has 7,65GB total storage. I don't know if that's because this is a demo-phone or what :S
Yep, odd indeed given other reports.

But this is why I only trust the df utility. Once marketing gets in there, defintions for actual storage leave the building.

So - maybe because it's a demo unit - or maybe because marketing decided to count /cache along with user storage.

Or - something regional - maybe.

edit and ps - df shows where the rest of the 16 GB is going on your copy nicely, I really appreciate the info!

Quote:
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This is also stock and before anyone tried to delete/remove the bloat and sample pics, videos and all that junk.
That only changes what's used - the filesystem allocations are fixed at the factory.
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Old April 24th, 2013, 02:45 PM   #50 (permalink)
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FWIW, I have no idea what any of this means:



Comes from my 16GB Sprint GS4 review unit:

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