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Old May 16th, 2013, 09:39 AM   #1 (permalink)
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ďAs one of the most advanced smartphones on the market, the Samsung Galaxy S4 uses part of its internal memory to bring our customers its innovative and unique features. We appreciate this issue being raised and we will improve our communications. Also, we are reviewing the possibility to secure more memory space through further software optimisation. Samsung is committed to listening to our customers and responding to their needs as part of our innovation process."
More at Tmo News

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Old May 16th, 2013, 09:47 AM   #2 (permalink)
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More at Tmo News
That's interesting.

I haven't used up all my space yet but installing Modern Combat 4 and Sygic Aura used up half of my free space with just these two apps. A bit more free space would be welcome.

What they really need to do though is to allow you to store app data on the external SD card (although I realise that this is really Google's fault not Samsung's).
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Old May 16th, 2013, 11:05 AM   #3 (permalink)
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How about they give us a way of installing applications on the sdcard, problem solved then.
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Old May 16th, 2013, 11:16 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Android team will not allow it. If any doubt, please read their input on such matters at the Android dev forums hosted by/with the Android team folks.
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Old May 16th, 2013, 03:33 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Yahoo News is reporting this too:
Samsung looks to cut the bloat, free up more Galaxy S4 storage
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Old May 16th, 2013, 04:31 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Android team will not allow it. If any doubt, please read their input on such matters at the Android dev forums hosted by/with the Android team folks.
Screw the Android team, Samsung are big enough to force it through and everyone will thank them afterwards.

We shouldn't have to root the phone to do this.
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Old May 16th, 2013, 04:38 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Screw the Android team, Samsung are big enough to force it through and everyone will thank them afterwards.

We shouldn't have to root the phone to do this.
Apps to sd is broken by design. It always was.

Get the app devs to send their data to the sd card rather than internal storage - and the problem would be solved.

But why won't the gaming community do that?

Because of slower access to the sd card.

So even if you could get Samsung to screw Android - as a solution because game developers are screwing you, not Google - you might not like the results.

Gaming may be important to you, but getting Android screwed because of lazy game developers, justified by people not buying faster sd cards, isn't a solution that the rest of the (larger) user community would want or desire.
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Old May 16th, 2013, 05:28 PM   #8 (permalink)
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You can actually thank all the people that caused customer service cost issues due to not making the connection that swapping cards or using cheap cards caused their app and OS issues.

That was all Android needed to kill it with carrier blessings.
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Old May 16th, 2013, 05:31 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Apps to sd is broken by design. It always was.

Get the app devs to send their data to the sd card rather than internal storage - and the problem would be solved.

But why won't the gaming community do that?

Because of slower access to the sd card.

So even if you could get Samsung to screw Android - as a solution because game developers are screwing you, not Google - you might not like the results.

Gaming may be important to you, but getting Android screwed because of lazy game developers, justified by people not buying faster sd cards, isn't a solution that the rest of the (larger) user community would want or desire.
Do developers have the option to send data to the external sdcard for applications and games?

If people in their spare time can make apps that force applications onto the sdcard then i'm sure Samsung and other large manufacturers can come up with a better solution that doesn't need us to root our phones.

My sdcard benchmarks faster than the internal storage, I know there are slow sdcards out there. Why not include a built-in speed test, if the sdcard is fast enough then enable apps to be installed there. Or even check the model against an online database to see whether it's fast enough, a kind of Android sdcard certification.

I don't how Android would be screwed either way, can't be any worse than it is now with regards to storage issues.
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Old May 16th, 2013, 05:40 PM   #10 (permalink)
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You keep saying what Samsung should do when this isn't up to Samsung to do a thing. Samsung didn't remove apps to sd.
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Old May 16th, 2013, 05:44 PM   #11 (permalink)
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You keep saying what Samsung should do when this isn't up to Samsung to do a thing. Samsung didn't remove apps to sd.
Well they have the best selling Android phones and the most influence, if they marketed and implemented it well enough others would follow.

I know it's not going to happen as they love ripping us off on the models with extra storage but I can dream can't I?
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Old May 16th, 2013, 06:16 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Do developers have the option to send data to the external sdcard for applications and games?
Absolutely.

Most are either using an older API that defaults to internal storage or are not bothering and simply writing to the /data partition.

I guarantee it's easy to determine the storage options used on any Android - I did for our team's internal storage backup solution.

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If people in their spare time can make apps that force applications onto the sdcard then i'm sure Samsung and other large manufacturers can come up with a better solution that doesn't need us to root our phones.
That would require Samsung to do things that could severely break other apps that DO know how to use the storage API calls correctly.

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I don't how Android would be screwed either way, can't be any worse than it is now with regards to storage issues.
Please just trust me on two things -

First - forcing an OS to overcome user errors with storage handling is how we ended up with the MTP nightmare on Android.

Second - bending the OS to overcome crappy coding techniques would be invasive and inevitably break apps that are already correct.

So it really could get far, far worse.

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My sdcard benchmarks faster than the internal storage, I know there are slow sdcards out there. Why not include a built-in speed test, if the sdcard is fast enough then enable apps to be installed there. Or even check the model against an online database to see whether it's fast enough, a kind of Android sdcard certification.
That is an excellent idea - if you limit it to app data and force developers to do their job properly.

I wrote to a dev recently and told him that I had both internal storage and an sd card, and that I'd appreciate being able to spool my data to my sd card.

He wrote back that I must new to Android, no such phone exists.

I wrote to another (EStrongs File Explorer as a matter of fact! ) and explained how and why their report of my actual storage space was simply wrong. On their new update, they're off by gigabytes.

And what did they tell me? That they'd look it into, but it was a low priority because I was wrong.

So - I sent the link to the HTC specs page for my phone and screen shots.

Answer - HTC must have said it wrong, and I must have a different phone because they're right.

Never underestimate the stubborn stupidity of some developers.

If your apps would ALL spool the user data to the sd card (keep config info on internal storage, that's small) - configurable by you, the user - you would not be having this problem.

The problem does not lie with Android but with how people are abusing it with their code.
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Old May 16th, 2013, 06:36 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Absolutely.

Most are either using an older API that defaults to internal storage or are not bothering and simply writing to the /data partition.

I guarantee it's easy to determine the storage options used on any Android - I did for our team's internal storage backup solution.
Well that is very disappointing if none of the developers are taking advantage of this.

Knowing the storage options available is it possible to give the user options of where data can be installed? Presuming the data is downloaded when launched the application.
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Old May 16th, 2013, 06:40 PM   #14 (permalink)
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A few things:

As per earlier posts, app installations to internal SD only are an OS issue, and broken by design by Google.

Samsung will surely improve the amount of space their bloat uses up in successive updates, the S3 saw significant improvements to the amount of free RAM at boot over the first several updates so I think the indicators are there that this will happen. Even a couple of extra gigs would make things much better for users of large apps (stuff like Gameloft games).

Having said that, one of the problems here is releasing a 16GB base storage model at all. 32GB really needs to be the new standard, regardless of the presence of an external card slot.
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Old May 16th, 2013, 06:45 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Well that is very disappointing if none of the developers are taking advantage of this.

Knowing the storage options available is it possible to give the user options of where data can be installed? Presuming the data is downloaded when launched the application.
Absolutely.

The data download at initial use - the app already knows how to do that. Adding an option to ask you how you want it instead of just doing what it wants?

Trivial. Completely trivial to do.

The camera app I have lets me choose whether to store to internal or actual sd card and knows how to preload my gallery so I click it on a thumbnail, and that lets me view my photo data wherever.

A few lines of code extra and a dev could let you transfer info from one storage location to another, absolutely no big deal to do that.

Scenario 1 - you started with your data on internal, change your mind and want to transfer it to your sd card. Scenario 2 - you started with the data on your sd card but want to see if that same data running from internal storage would work out better for you.

Both are trivial and just a matter of willpower on the part of the developer.

Android is a real-time embedded Linux.

All of the important under-the-hood power of desktop Linux is right there in the palm of your hand.
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Old May 16th, 2013, 07:40 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Regardless of anything else, my guess is the bragging right quest for mod devs with the S4 will be who can make the leanest rom that does not impair the full function of the device. S4 is kind of like a modern day G1 now, except without the awful usb/audio port.
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Old May 16th, 2013, 10:13 PM   #17 (permalink)
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HTC's "flagship" phone doesn't have an external storage device, neither do a bunch of other Android devices. When this S4 came out what was everyone complaining about? The cheap feel and the plastic.

Those of us who do care about a removable battery and an SD card are in the minority folks, sorry to say it. I even get the feeling just based on he amount of public outcry that this may be the last major phone, or at least among the last generation of major phones that do get those two features.

You really think that Devs or Google themselves are gonna screw everyone else on all the other phones out there over just because we want to be able to play games on our SD cards? I want a billion dollars and one of those ticket oaks I saw on a commercial too, but it ain't happening.
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Old May 17th, 2013, 01:33 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Keep in mind some of that missing space isn't used up at all, its reserved. There are already roms under 500 megs and when installed the phone has not 1 kb more room on the internal storage than it did with the 1.7 gig original firmware. Haven't read of anyone figuring out exactly how much is sitting there unused but the amount is not trivial.
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Old May 17th, 2013, 02:04 AM   #19 (permalink)
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The filesystem allocation for /system - where the "rom" is - is 2.69 GB.

Of that, 2.14 to 2.48 GB are used depending on version, carrier and region, based on info published in the 32/64 GB thread so far.

To reclaim any of that would require re-partitioning the storage as you say - not a pretty thought.
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Old May 17th, 2013, 08:05 AM   #20 (permalink)
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If you watched the Watchdog response and put into the context of them shipping six million that are all apparently accounted for with customer demand, it was more a "Yeah, we'll look into that and get back to ya! We'll call YOU."

Would not be holding breath too long for this unless customer pushback is profound. Were/if that the/is case, more people would be revolting to wanting a 32GB model, since all that will be gained is maybe 1.5GB at best with the 16GB. If you are already tightish with 9GB, 10.5GB is not much more headroom.

Point, being as others have stated, there are FAR more folks that will be happy with the 9GB or less than not. Will take a collective push from the minority to get any real action for lean roms or more assertive efforts to get carriers stocking larger models.
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Old May 17th, 2013, 08:11 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shocky View Post
Do developers have the option to send data to the external sdcard for applications and games?
They do and Sygic have done so.

You may not have seen my post from a couple of days ago but with Sygic Aura, all you have to do is to move the /Sygic directory over to your external SD card and it just works.

Unfortunately, it's not so easy on some other applications.
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Old May 17th, 2013, 08:23 AM   #22 (permalink)
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"Samsung officially unveiled its latest handset on April 26 and had supplied 4 million units worldwide within five days. In contrast, it took 85 days for the company to shift 3 million of its S1 handsets, 55 days to do the same for the S2, and 21 days for the S3.

"As of Friday, we have sold more than 6 million units, and we predict that we could break the 10-million mark by as early as the end of this month," the company said."

http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2013/05/13/2013051301012.html#ystfuv

Record profits too.

Btw, this is the 21st day of the phone.
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Old May 17th, 2013, 08:43 AM   #23 (permalink)
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The game called The Bards Tale requires 3.5 gig of space if you want the HD version, 1.8gig for the SD version, and it gives you the option to install to internal or external when installing it.

More large games need to do this.
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Old May 17th, 2013, 08:45 AM   #24 (permalink)
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"Samsung officially unveiled its latest handset on April 26 and had supplied 4 million units worldwide within five days. In contrast, it took 85 days for the company to shift 3 million of its S1 handsets, 55 days to do the same for the S2, and 21 days for the S3.

Record profits too.

So much for people saying the 16gb limit would hurt sales.
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Old May 17th, 2013, 09:08 AM   #25 (permalink)
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The game called The Bards Tale requires 3.5 gig of space if you want the HD version, 1.8gig for the SD version, and it gives you the option to install to internal or external when installing it.

More large games need to do this.
i wouldn't be surprised if this starts to become more common among games and apps that require large databases. regardless of how much on board storage is included in a device, if some app developers keep bloating their applications, the push back will eventually be focused on them to provide more options for database storage and such. seems only right as sd storage is more cost effective by far than purchasing a phone with higher storage capacities.
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Old May 17th, 2013, 10:00 AM   #26 (permalink)
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The game called The Bards Tale requires 3.5 gig of space if you want the HD version, 1.8gig for the SD version, and it gives you the option to install to internal or external when installing it.

More large games need to do this.
The game lags and doesn't load fast when on the external.
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Old May 17th, 2013, 10:17 AM   #27 (permalink)
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The game lags and doesn't load fast when on the external.

Not on my S4 with a class 10 SD Card, its very fast. Mine is running fine and I am using the HD version at the highest resolution.
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Old May 17th, 2013, 10:42 AM   #28 (permalink)
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The game lags and doesn't load fast when on the external.
Just tested The Bards Tale and no it doesn't lag at all, it's silky smooth on the S4.

Also the loading times are really quick on my sdcard, no idea what your talking about.
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Old May 17th, 2013, 01:17 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Edonidd View Post
Those of us who do care about a removable battery and an SD card are in the minority folks, sorry to say it. I even get the feeling just based on he amount of public outcry that this may be the last major phone, or at least among the last generation of major phones that do get those two features.
I really hope you are wrong (but I wouldn't be surprised if you aren't).

Removable storage is good but only because it's cheaper than paying the high premium manufacturers (Apple, I'm thinking of you) charge for including extra memory. I never actually remove the SD card once it's in.

Being able to replace the battery is a really big deal for me. All my recent phones have struggled to see it through the day if I am using them much and being able to swap out the battery is a major advantage.
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Old May 17th, 2013, 01:28 PM   #30 (permalink)
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The lack of removable storage and battery are the primary reasons I would not consider the Nexus 4 or the HTC One. (The iPhone 5 has other limitations besides those two issues that turn me away)
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Old May 17th, 2013, 05:26 PM   #31 (permalink)
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If I were Samsung, I'd believe that the replaceable battery and sd card are just as much a part of what drove this profit outbreak as any other features and I'd keep them.

Anyway, they're safe for another year.
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