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Old August 30th, 2013, 08:38 AM   #1 (permalink)
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So what's the point of a ("security") lock screen? What I mean is, if I lose my phone but have a password or pin set up , can't someone just hack into my phone with a cable and computer?

Exactly what is accessible on my phone when I have a "secure" lock screen set up? I find it laughable if significant others or random people are supposed to be unable to break into an android phone because of a lock screen.

Smart people - this is your time to show me how stupid and uniformed I am.

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Old August 30th, 2013, 08:52 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Don't know how the S4 works, but when I connect my Nexus 4 via USB it either has to be unlocked or I have to unlock it before I can actually see any data. Also, if the phone auto-locks and the connection hasn't been used for a while, I have to enter the PIN (or whatever) again.
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Old August 30th, 2013, 10:31 AM   #3 (permalink)
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On my s4 when i connect it to my laptop, i always have to enter my pin before the data is allowed to connect, otherwise it just charges only.
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Old August 30th, 2013, 10:55 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Beyond what the others have said, it would take a bit of knowledge to know how to figure out things like your email passwords, where if the phone is unlocked they can just easily access your email (or websites where you have the passwords saved).

And with access to your phone they could turn it onto airplane mode and look at it at their leisure.

BTW, please try to use descriptive titles in your threads. Many people won't bother reading posts where the title does not give some idea of the topic, so it's in your interest to be descriptive.
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Old August 30th, 2013, 11:05 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I find it laughable if significant others or random people are supposed to be unable to break into an android phone because of a lock screen.
So how would the aforementioned SO hack into your phone? If you don't know how to (and it appears you do not despite what you wrote above), why should she?

if you have sensitive information stored on your SD card then that is clearly going to be easy to extract but even if there were a complex way to hack into your locked phone (and Samsung and Google aren't going to make it as easy as you imply so it would be complex) most people won't have either the knowledge or inclination to do so.

They might start poking around on an unlocked phone though. I always lock mine and I shall continue to do so.

[Edit]
I've just done a bit of poking around on the net and it appears that bypassing a PIN locked screen without Google credentials on a phone without USB debugging enabled is generally not possible no matter how clever you are.

So the answer to the question "Pointless?" is "No.".
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Old August 30th, 2013, 03:13 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Sorry about the title, I just wanted people to say something because all too often, I don't get much feedback.

I haven't, don't, and never will have any information or something scandalous on my phone, or anything that someone would look for or be jealous of, other than the normal stuff that's gonna help identity thieves and the unscrupulous types would use to their advantage.

A lady in a large electronics store told me they know how to bypass pattern locks on display phones that customers mess with, so I figure it's possible with any lock. Also people I know with fruit phones say it's easy to hack into them with a cable and computer. All of this promoted me to ask this.
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Old August 30th, 2013, 03:35 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Pattern locks are apparently easier to bypass than PIN locks but, if you don't mind wiping the data on the phone, PIN locks can be easy to bypass too.

In a shop, they could easily set up a phone with a Google account for which they know the username and password and they could also enable USB debugging, both of which would allow you to bypass some of the security measures. You would hope that a random thief would not know your Google password.

By the way, if you haven't got anything worth hiding on your phone, you aren't trying hard enough .
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Old August 30th, 2013, 05:04 PM   #8 (permalink)
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In a shop, they could easily set up a phone with a Google account for which they know the username and password
This would be my guess - it's certainly the easiest way.
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Old August 31st, 2013, 12:00 AM   #9 (permalink)
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OK, so I hooked my phone to my computer via USB cable with it still locked. What I was able to get to was......jack frickin squat! So indeed it makes a difference. If I unlock it, everything shows up!

Now, my question is: how does SD card encryption work and why is it a good or bad idea? What about the "encrypt device" option for every time it turns on?

I am thinking much more about this due to finding an unlocked S4 at work (I find many things in my line of work, just not many phones) and I realized that if I were unscrupulous, I could have caused major damage to the owner and made their life hell because it was there in front of me. I turned it in without messing with it, but they should be glad I was the one who found it.

I have plenty of ideas of what someone can do. I'm very careful not to leave my phone unattended, and I'm careful with it. However we all would say the same thing, and the fact is that it CAN and DOES happen to people.
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Old August 31st, 2013, 09:17 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I haven't, don't, and never will have any information or something scandalous on my phone, or anything that someone would look for or be jealous of, other than the normal stuff that's gonna help identity thieves and the unscrupulous types would use to their advantage.
So you don't have email on your phone? If you do, whoever has your phone could email everyone you know, saying whatever outrageous, rude, or insulting things they wanted.

You don't have web access? For example, can you post to this site without entering a password? If so, again they could post here, although that wouldn't be as bad because it's anonymous.

You don't have your home location stored in your GPS? If you do, the thief could likely be to your house before you even notice your phone is gone.
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Old August 31st, 2013, 10:38 AM   #11 (permalink)
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So you don't have email on your phone? If you do, whoever has your phone could email everyone you know, saying whatever outrageous, rude, or insulting things they wanted.

You don't have web access? For example, can you post to this site without entering a password? If so, again they could post here, although that wouldn't be as bad because it's anonymous.

You don't have your home location stored in your GPS? If you do, the thief could likely be to your house before you even notice your phone is gone.
To clarify, or course I have things like you mentioned that I don't want someone getting into that could cause damage. What I mean is, I don't do things on my phone that would make my significant other jealous and want to poke their nose into.
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Old September 3rd, 2013, 01:58 AM   #12 (permalink)
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So what's the point of a ("security") lock screen? What I mean is, if I lose my phone but have a password or pin set up , can't someone just hack into my phone with a cable and computer?

Exactly what is accessible on my phone when I have a "secure" lock screen set up? I find it laughable if significant others or random people are supposed to be unable to break into an android phone because of a lock screen.

Smart people - this is your time to show me how stupid and uniformed I am.
I use an eight dight pin code for my S4. I have a lot of personal documents, passcodes, pictures, other people's contact info., etc. Stored on my phone. So having it locked down is a must. Not to mention having access to my personal emails and social networking.

If I was to lose or had my phone stolen, I can wipe both the internal memory and SD card.

With the theft of smart phones at an all time high, it would be a good idea to have some type of security code enabled. My cellphone is just as important, if not more, then my wallet.
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Old September 3rd, 2013, 03:55 AM   #13 (permalink)
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If the FBI can't break a phone's pattern lock so it's good enough for me ...
http://www.techhive.com/article/251906/android_pattern_lock_stumps_fbi.html

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Old September 3rd, 2013, 05:33 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Sorry about the title, I just wanted people to say something because all too often, I don't get much feedback.

I haven't, don't, and never will have any information or something scandalous on my phone, or anything that someone would look for or be jealous of, other than the normal stuff that's gonna help identity thieves and the unscrupulous types would use to their advantage.

A lady in a large electronics store told me they know how to bypass pattern locks on display phones that customers mess with, so I figure it's possible with any lock. Also people I know with fruit phones say it's easy to hack into them with a cable and computer. All of this promoted me to ask this.
You thought some lady in an electronic stores gave you a "smart answer", too much for us dummies?

Sorry, but your original post comes off, as condescending and ridiculous considering HOW/WHY pattern locks are so easy to break, had the phone expert in the store stopped to think (or been nice enough to tell you why).

Want to know why?

Rub your finger across your screen in a certain pattern, many times. Hell, once will probably work. Then hold your screen at an angle to the light (with the screen dark, makes it easier), until you can see the exact trace of your finger. Now pull up, the screen "pattern" lock (you think the smart lady at the electronics store, would notice "pattern", is a kind of theme here?)

You've just figured out, how to "hack", or break into, Android.

No offense meant to you... but I haven't any patience for stupidity... and the woman in the electronics store, gave you a really stupid answer, not providing you the WHY. If she even knows herself. She probably overheard someone say it. Go back and ask her, if she knows why a "pattern", or a repetitive act, might be easy to duplicate/mimic?
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Old September 3rd, 2013, 05:44 AM   #15 (permalink)
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With all due respect jdC, I'm gonna have to call BS on your response above. I keep my screen wiped clean and do not believe it is possible to pick up the pattern from observing greasy finger traces.

Perhaps some in-depth forensics could detect a repeated pattern, but just a casual look at an angle on a dark screen? I find that hard to believe.
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Old September 3rd, 2013, 10:15 AM   #16 (permalink)
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I would tend to agree with jdCaptivate's take on to screen traces on most phones. Some people are more OCD than others and will constantly wipe and clean while most will do it only occasionally. I keep my screen somewhere in the middle and yes, I can see the path I use most often when looking at the right angle. If I used a pattern lock someone could most likely see that path as well.
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Old September 3rd, 2013, 10:43 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Heh! I guess my OCD is showing.
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Old September 3rd, 2013, 11:42 AM   #18 (permalink)
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I wonder if Ben Stein had an unsecured phone with the Facebook app?

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Old September 3rd, 2013, 11:47 AM   #19 (permalink)
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A lady in a large electronics store told me they know how to bypass pattern locks on display phones that customers mess with, so I figure it's possible with any lock. Also people I know with fruit phones say it's easy to hack into them with a cable and computer. All of this promoted me to ask this.
Quote:
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You thought some lady in an electronic stores gave you a "smart answer", too much for us dummies?

Sorry, but your original post comes off, as condescending and ridiculous considering HOW/WHY pattern locks are so easy to break, had the phone expert in the store stopped to think (or been nice enough to tell you why).

Want to know why?

Rub your finger across your screen in a certain pattern, many times. Hell, once will probably work. Then hold your screen at an angle to the light (with the screen dark, makes it easier), until you can see the exact trace of your finger. Now pull up, the screen "pattern" lock (you think the smart lady at the electronics store, would notice "pattern", is a kind of theme here?)

You've just figured out, how to "hack", or break into, Android.

No offense meant to you... but I haven't any patience for stupidity... and the woman in the electronics store, gave you a really stupid answer, not providing you the WHY. If she even knows herself. She probably overheard someone say it. Go back and ask her, if she knows why a "pattern", or a repetitive act, might be easy to duplicate/mimic?
The reason why any employee working at a store where they sell cell phones that are not dummy phones can get into a phone that a customer has set any type of lock on; the phone itself is a display model. Since it's specifically for display, there's measures built in that allow them to unlock the phone when a customer is dumb enough to set a lock thinking that the employees cannot reset the security.

So yes, the lady at the electronic store that told gloriousnumber1 that she could get past the security was indeed telling the truth... about the none dummy display phones.
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Old September 3rd, 2013, 11:49 AM   #20 (permalink)
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The reason why any employee working at a store where they sell cell phones that are not dummy phones can get into a phone that a customer has set any type of lock on; the phone itself is a display model. Since it's specifically for display, there's measures built in that allow them to unlock the phone when a customer is dumb enough to set a lock thinking that the employees cannot reset the security.
And if the B&M store employees can do that, it has to be a very simple procedure!
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Old September 3rd, 2013, 11:56 AM   #21 (permalink)
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And if the B&M store employees can do that, it has to be a very simple procedure!

You missed the entire point.

The none dummy phones at the store are display models. The entire UI is designed to be used in stores only, which is how the employees are able to bypass the security. That's not something normally accessible to the average end user purchasing a phone.
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Old September 3rd, 2013, 12:26 PM   #22 (permalink)
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You missed the entire point. .
No, I was just making a joke.

No need to analyze jokes, but if you want to, the idea of basing any decision on what you're told by a B&M store employee is laughable. They don't know squat, and if the display units have a special way for them to undo a lock, it has to be pretty simple.
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Old September 3rd, 2013, 01:26 PM   #23 (permalink)
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if the display units have a special way for them to undo a lock, it has to be pretty simple.
Aye. Pretty simple for the display models. For end user phones, not so much.
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Old September 3rd, 2013, 03:19 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
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The reason why any employee working at a store where they sell cell phones that are not dummy phones can get into a phone that a customer has set any type of lock on; the phone itself is a display model. Since it's specifically for display, there's measures built in that allow them to unlock the phone when a customer is dumb enough to set a lock thinking that the employees cannot reset the security.

So yes, the lady at the electronic store that told gloriousnumber1 that she could get past the security was indeed telling the truth... about the none dummy display phones.
Why would the store employee tell a customer, that security on their dummy phones... the trace/PATTERN lock, is easy to crack (on the dummy phones)? Who cares and what relevance does it have to the real world phones?

This isn't the first time you've heard, this security concern, is it? Why do you think "pattern" isn't listed under HIGH security on the phone?

I've owned the Galaxy line since the Captivate (though any touch screen is subject to it)... and the first thing my son did, when he came home on leave, one time, was say... "hey, check this out"... held my phone up and there was a perfect trace, reflected in the light. Oh... and I'm anal about wiping down the screen to. Keep a cloth on/with me, all the time. Problem is, this thing called "wear" and some say "tear"... but you eventually wear that pattern into more than fingerprint oil.

Go ahead and Google, why the pattern lock is pretty weak security. I won't be the only one to bring it up. Heck, I bet if he goes back and asks her why the pattern lock is so easy to crack, she either doesn't know why... or will tell him the exact same thing I did. You can do it yourself. Next time you're in a phone store, ask them, if the pattern lock is really secure. Count how many stupid, or correct answers you get... and not a single response will have anything to do, with the display phones.

P.S. Most people working in the large electronics stores, don't know Jack about what they're talking about. Sure they receive some training on the phones... but I can count on two fingers, the number of them that has ever rooted, flashed, etc... their phones and/or has any idea the things I ask them, when I come in.
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Old September 3rd, 2013, 03:37 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I honestly can't see anything on the screen protector on my phone. Although I occasionally use a microfiber cloth to clean it, I normally just use the front of my shirt to clean the screen. Maybe I'm one of the few who does this.
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Old September 3rd, 2013, 03:40 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Why would the store employee tell a customer, that security on their dummy phones... the trace/PATTERN lock, is easy to crack (on the dummy phones)?
That's not what the OP said. There is a huge difference between cracking the security on the lockscreen and having special codes specifically for unlocking a device model.

I merely gave the reason why the employee can easily reset the phone after a customer thought they would be smooth by locking it.

It matters not why the employee said it because it has no relevance to the thread topic. Perhaps we should stay on topic to prevent a Mod from locking the thread.
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Old September 3rd, 2013, 07:36 PM   #27 (permalink)
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OK, I'm sorry for creating drama. My intention is to learn, and I have definitely done that. However, the fallout here was never intended.

I agree that the display phones probably have something built into them as a safety to override any lock a customer puts on it. However I do wonder if factory resetting would work.

I also agree that most employees of such places can't even find things in the section they work in that they swear are there, much less have the level of knowledge even a fraction of most people in here. Heck, my local (and favorite) Verizon corporate store that knows me by name even can't always match my Android knowledge.

I guess I've learned all I can unless someone says something else. Thanks for responding. I've never had this happen to me before on one of my threads and I take full responsibility if anyone gets in trouble!
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Old September 4th, 2013, 01:12 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Quote:
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That's not what the OP said. There is a huge difference between cracking the security on the lockscreen and having special codes specifically for unlocking a device model.

I merely gave the reason why the employee can easily reset the phone after a customer thought they would be smooth by locking it.

It matters not why the employee said it because it has no relevance to the thread topic. Perhaps we should stay on topic to prevent a Mod from locking the thread.
OK.... and I merely told people why the pattern lock, isn't secure, why it isn't secure and how to know. Which was good, because it appears some people were unaware.

All on-topic, because we're talking about the security of the phone. Who cares about store display models... which was the follow-up, explanation. She said the store display phones, the customers mess with. None of us is walking around with one, so it doesn't matter. We went off-topic from that point, discussing something none of us has.

P.S. They don't give big electronic store salespeople, special codes, techniques to break into our phones. Not without your permission, at least.

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OK, I'm sorry for creating drama. My intention is to learn, and I have definitely done that. However, the fallout here was never intended.
No drama here. I just don't beat around the bush, some might take that the wrong way. No offense taken, meant.
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Old September 12th, 2013, 03:12 PM   #29 (permalink)
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There is a new app out now that allows you to use any picture and create your own pattern lock touch points, anywhere you want.
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Old September 12th, 2013, 06:17 PM   #30 (permalink)
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P.S. They don't give big electronic store salespeople, special codes, techniques to break into our phones.
No one implied that they do.
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