massiveian

I received my first bill from sprint and saw i had 18 international text messages from 12/16 - 12/19.
I called them and they credited my account for the international messages. I told her my phone was placing me all around the world, and she noted that on my account. I am worried that I am going to have to call Sprint CS every month to get these messages removed from my bill.
I was then forwarded to Tech support and told him my issue. He said this is not a known issue. and in order for my location to be correct i would have to reset the phone. Well I was on the phone at that time so he said he would call my house phone later so we could reset the phone. I hope 2.whatever comes out soon so this can be resolved.

cvam1985

As it does not work, may I ask why you have not turned it off?

It's under the GPS menu and called something like "Use Wireless Networks"

massiveian

Because when i first got the phone it was working fine until today when i went into google maps and it said i was in fiji. I have disabled it since

SlyFerret

I've been waiting to hear a report from somebody who actually had the international SMS messages show up on the bill so that they are itemized.

What number does it show the SMS messages were to? Are they numbers that you recognize and know that you did in fact send SMS messages to?

-SF

massiveian

It does not show where the messages originated from. I asked the Sprint rep i was on the phone with if they could see where the messages came from or were going and they said even they didnt have that information. They said due to privacy they are unable to see any international text message information. They gave me a number to call and i could pay to have this information sent to me.

SlyFerret

If you're being billed for international SMS... wouldn't they have originated from YOUR phone?

I don't recall every being billed for the delivery of an international SMS from my brother overseas.

Does your bill not itemize all your calls and SMS messages?

-SF

massiveian

No my bill just said 18 international text messages @ $.20/msg....................$3.60

It didnt allow me to see who i was texting. And i know all of my friends are here in the states so im confused.

SlyFerret

I'm a little incredulous when it comes to blaming the international SMS thing on aGPS.

The SMS stack on the phone should in no way need your GPS location in order to determine if an SMS is domestic or international. It's all based on where the tower is when the SMS is handed off to the carrier from the phone, and routing is based on the destination phone number.

In order to get to the bottom of the international SMS messages that folks are seeing, we're going to somehow have to find out what the numbers in question are.

-SF

massiveian

Yeah I understand that. But I would like to find out who I was texting between those 3 days so i can figure it out. I wish Sprint would release text information online but they wont. I know the people i texted in those 3 days were in the country because they all live within 15 miles of me and i always see them.

Moment

Maybe the people you texted are lying to you

MrGadget256

Similar problem, many other posts, Sprint is fessing up to the problem. Hopefully it will be fixed with 2.1 location issue., and for a graphic, location issue.
I had them remove 3 International texts without an issue.
Sprint: Android 2.1 coming to Moment first half of next year

SlyFerret

It's not necessarily a similar problem. The location of the handset, as determined by GPS/aGPS should have absolutely no bearing on the SMS features of the phone. SMS routing is a function of the network.

I'm really hoping that, at some point, somebody with these mysterious international SMS messages will get an itemized paper bill and be able to provide some more information.

Until we have that information... we can do absolutely nothing but speculate.

-SF

MrGadget256

I just got my bill, no charges were on the paper copy, but I had specifically requested they be removed, so they no longer show on the electronic copy either. Maybe someone else will pay for them. I won't.

kalel3038

Yeah same problem here I just recived my bill today and got charged for 16 international text msgs and got charged 13 dollars so I call customer service and asked them to give me some info and all they could do was give me time and location....and they were only able to give me the date and location and said I had texted japan egypt peru lol she said there was more lol and I was like what??? lol I am thinking either my phone has a mind of its own and has friends their or I must be a real text junkie that I text all these countries IN MY SLEEP lol cause I don't member or have friends in those countries. So she told me that iin order to get more info I would have to call this number and I spoke to them and they said I had to sign a paper they were going to send me to check the number and time and date...due to privacy but now that I know its a problem amongst others to ill call sprint again and talk to them. Thanks guys!

AnnaKuz

Now I am getting nrevous too! My phone just decided My location is in som Asian country!

betafan

I just got my first bill as a sprint customer(switched from Tmo), I have been billed 37 intl text messages. It shows 24 from Egypt, 9 from Australia, and 4 from Hungary. It doesn't actually say 'from'--there's no indication if these are being billed as sent or received. As far as I can see there is no record of the numbers that I am allegedly exchanging international texts with. I will probably go into the sprint store this week or next to sort this out and will report back. I already have 11 intl text messages in this current billing cycle. Whether this is a problem with the phone or just with sprint, I don't know. I can assure all the skeptics out there that I am 100% sure these are bogus charges. I do not send/receive text messages with anyone in Egypt. I'd damn well know if somebody I was texting was in f$%@% Egpyt.

AnnaKuz

Haven't gotten to do may text msg yet, spent most of my time trying to get the email mess figured out...

dkjones96

Both wireless and satellite GPS on my phone since the day I got it and out of 3,800 some texts last billing cycle and 2500 so far this one not a single international text charge. I still think this is happening because of an app.

__________________
- Kyle

AndroidSPCS

Makes sense. Some app is trying to phone home and a sloppy developer overseas is receiving the texts...

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AnnaKuz

Yesterday when I was purposely draining the battery, I started everything I
could think of that tool juice. Towards the end I went to check Google maps and My location was somewhere in Asia (could not read the Asian characters and the names of the small towns did not ring a bell as to where this was). As soon as the battery was set to charge (using the wall charger) My location again was correct (at my house in Boulder). So perhaps that is what is going on? Your battery is low and GPS gets confused, you send a text msg and Sprint thinks you are in some other country...

numus

Understanding how SMS messages work is the first big clue that it isn't cause my a faulty location script in the phone itself..
SMS and voice DOES NOT GO THROUGH EVDO.. it goes through teh 1xRTT signal that your phone is always in (unless you have no signal at all).. SMS is really a data notification hack that the cell companys exploited to allow short messages (this ist he reason sms are limited to 180 chars)... These are routed through the cell tower, then through the routers and main database (it can also be forwarded at this point to the other carrier database for processing) and sent back out through another cell tower, through the data stream notification (all over the voice carrier stream mind you) and to the persons wireless device (this is why you can recieve texts while on voice calls but cant recieve other data while on a CDMA network)...
This has no relationship to where your phone "thinks" it is, since these are tracked through the router and main database at sprint.. If it goes through a US cell tower, and out a US cell tower, it knows it was a US based text, If it goes in through a US cell tower, and out a non-US cell tower.. they know it is an international text.. Once again.. SMS go through the VOICE STREAM NOT THE DATA STREAM this is why you get charged for it, if it went over the data stream (like all other programs do such as e-mail, Instant messaging and others) there would be no surcharge for international or limitations on the AMOUNT of texts you can send.. there would be bandwidth caps (like there are for data) on how much bandwidth you can utilize...
This is because more then likely the GPS (along with wifi and other stuff) automatically kicks off once you get below the 15% battery meter level (even if you battery is still half full).. It defaulted back to the broken wireless network location script (you have both of them checked i assume.. Use wireless network and GPS).. Also note the Moment implements location via avalible WIFI signals in your location and either they have coordinates, or skyhook (or another service) has those coordinates and determines were you are based on that... Once again.. these services kick off below the 15% battery mark to "conserve power"...

As someone else has already stated.. the reason you are getting charged international text messages is because some sloppy dev is sending SMS from your phone to an international number...

Last edited by numus; December 30th, 2009 at 10:38 AM.

AnnaKuz

Thanks for the explanation!
Being a newbee to Android - I have spent hours and hours poking around on the forum, I have searched on every conceivable text and variations and I apologize profusely if I asked questions that have been answered 5000000 times and I am sorry for wasting your time

numus

Naa that is a link to a new wiki being developed.. This isn't really one of those questions.. the usual is just the GPS question in general.. along with how to flash the new kernel

massiveian

Well I just checked my usage from Dec 20th - Now, and i already have 6 international text messages. I have kept all my text messages and as i look through my phone I did not have one person with 6 messages during these 10 days. So im clueless on how to go about this problem. I am tired of having to call up Sprint so that they can remove the charges every month. How long is this going to happen for

dkjones96

What apps are you running in addition to what I'm already running, everyone having this issue chime in. If you aren't having the issue and you aren't using a program that the people with this problem are mentioning, say so. I imagine everyone getting this has an app in common.

I've currently got:

aDyno
Aloqa
Bank of America
BeamReader
Bible
Bluetooth OnOff
Bubble
Cestos
Compass
Facebook
handyCalc
Metal Detector
Old Man Herbert Soundboard(funnier than heck)
Pandora
Periodic Table
PhoneFlicks
Pkt Auctions eBay
Robo Defense
Radiant Lite
Shazam
SMS Popup
Where's My Droid
WiFi OnOff

Didn't realize I'd installed that many programs...

Last edited by dkjones96; December 30th, 2009 at 12:47 PM.

tgarcia

I have had the same problem and it does not have to do with a sloppy international developer. I spoke to a sprint customer service rep from the fraud department and he said that i was texting local numbers, local to my home, from other countries. So the Samsung Moment GPS is faulty and he knows there is an issue because it shows me as texting a local number from India and Singapore in the same day, within hours!!!

I was told to go to a sprint store and see what they can do. I know there is nothing they can do right now until there is a patch available. Now that there are billing issues I am certain Sprint will get a patch out soon.

tgarcia

To test the issue, those who have not seen the problem should turn off gps and enable Use wireless networks. Then open Google maps and if it shows you as being in a different country, send a text message to a number local to your home and you will probably get hit with an international text charge...

Sometimes Google maps will show that your phone is in a different location but its still in the US so if that is the case there will be no international charge.

dkjones96

My 'Use Wireless Networks' selection has been on since day one. I work and live in tin-roof buildings so gps hardly ever works for me.

The user data header for an SMS message barely has enough room for the recipient's and sender's phone number so I don't see how they could fit GPS coordinates or anything like that in it for the international texting.

tgarcia, can you provide a phone number for the department you talked to and explain what you said to them to get the texting info released? You are the first user so far that I've read actually got information from sprint regarding where the messages were going.

Last edited by dkjones96; December 30th, 2009 at 01:57 PM.

tgarcia

I dont have the phone number, as I was redirected from the regular 611 customer service call. I've been trying to make my phone think I am in a different place but I am not having any luck.

I'm not sure what combination will cause the phone to think it is in a different location.

numus

This makes no sense since text messages are sent via the voice stream and not the data stream.. If this held true because of the GPS, the same would apply to voice calls and it would show you making international phone calls.. I think the person at sprint didn't really know what they were talking about...

tgarcia

dkjones96,
I dont think the sms has any location data in the actual message. Perhaps sprints gets information from the phone, which tells where the phone's last location is when it sent the message.

I'm not sure, all i know is the customer service rep asked me if I was out of the country or on a cruise ship. I guess if your on a cruise ship you may be able to be in a few different regions within a short period of time. I dont know how fast cruise ships go... ;-)

The first thing I asked the rep was, are these messages I sent to other countries or are they messages I received. He said they are messages I sent from other counties to common local numbers where I live. He said it does seem weird that I was in several different regions.

AndroidSPCS

LOL never confuse a fraud guy with someone who actually understands how the technology works.

As explained over and over above, no way can a faulty GPS location cause texts to be charged from some fake location. The text stream is different from the GPS streams of data, for different purposes.

numus

Just remember SMS's have existed long before GPS chips were put into phones

colettak

So, I was having this same problem on my moment and I seem to have figured out the problem and a solution, hopefully.

The problem is with your contacts. Check them -- I'd be willing to bet some of them have a +1 in front of them. It's the international format, and google sometimes asks if you want to automatically convert phone numbers into this format.

Now, on the moment, if you go into settings you will see something called "Plus Code Dialing". It is supposed to replace the + code "as needed" for outgoing calls, but I believe it to be faulty. After talking with sprint people for a looooooooong while, they told me whenever I texted my girflriend's number (who lives with me locally), it was an international text.

So, what's happening is that for some unknown reason, the phone thinks that it needs to convert a + at the front of a phone number into the international calling code 011. This makes it an international text.

I must say though, this shouldn't happen. Clearly it doesn't charge for international calls, so it's either laziness on Sprint's part or a bug in the phone, or both.

I'm not sure this is the issue, but based on the information I had it was the only thing that seemed possible. Please let me know if you guys see a similar thing.

P.S. I'd also like to point out that problems with aGPS could be an issue -- aGPS uses the cell towers to triangulate position, so if it does that wrong, it could clearly be tricked into thinking it needs to append an international code. I'm not saying at all that this is the case, but it COULD happen. Everyone was saying gps has nothing to do with it, but aGPS, since it uses the towers, definitely could.

jeffdlb

This sounds like a very plausible explanation. I hope they fix this before I get my Moment, because almost all of my numbers have the +1 in front. I may have to do a bulk edit before import. (The supposed advantage of using that standard format is that the phone should thereby be able to automatically apply calling prefixes for long-distance local calls.)

numus

With gmail integration it is incredibly easy to edit phone numbers.. All you do is log into gmail and go into your contacts and just edit them from the convience of your computer (it is actually easy and doesn't take that long)... Much easier then editing them in outlook or on the phone itself
Plus code dialing is very possible... once again, cell tower triangulation.. not that plasuable due to how SMS messages work (they DO NOT use the EVDO data, they use the same carrier signal that voice is transmitted on (hense why when data cuts off during a call you can still recieve sms messages)

Last edited by numus; January 11th, 2010 at 07:47 AM.

colettak

By cell tower triangulation problem, I mean the phone may use that to initially determine whether or not to do the plus code dialing. It does seem unlikely though, I agree.

numus

No.. The phone gets the correct information from the cell tower (or else it would be in violation of e911 standards)..
The problem isn't the phone getting the information from the cell tower (it gets this perfectly fine) the problem is the way the location software (specific to consumer end programs only) intreprets the data and displays it as a location.. This is software side on the phone for consumer level location, not cell side...
the SMS text is actual transmitted through the voice stream via 1xRTT.. if the issue was this determining to put the plus sign on it (or even to determine if you should route the sms through international carriers) then it would do the exact same thing via Phone Calls... The difference is the software might know to leave the + off, but the sms code was never amended with this check (remember android 1.5 was coded for GSM only.. CDMA implementation was hacked into it and didn't gain native support until 1.6.. so it is more likely samsung forgot to amend the sms protocal the same way they did the call protocal)

SlyFerret

The automatic +code dialing is a possibility. So far, it's the most plausible explanation, and it could actually have something to do with the aGPS.

If adding +code dialing to an SMS causes it to be billed by sprint as international... it sounds like there might be a network side bug in Sprint's SMS system.

It's possible that this bug never came up until a device (lucky us) started trying to do +code dialing automatically based on inaccurate GPS location information.

Certainly something to look into. I suppose we could test it by manually sending an SMS to a local number using +code dialing.

-SF

numus

I give up trying to explain how sms works..

SlyFerret

haha!

I know how SMS works, which is why I've been saying that the GPS location has nothing to do with the SMS stack.

I'd be curious to know if sending a domestic SMS form a moment (or any sprint device for that matter) using the full +code version in the number would result in Sprint trying to bill it as an international SMS.

-SF

numus

More then likely it is a glitch leftover from when samsung attempted to convert the GSM code into CDMA.. remember the moment isn't a world phone (i don't even believe it could work in canada even tho they have a CDMA network established up there) so there would be no reason to have the phone automatically augment world code information... Trust me.. my phone has said i am in Sudan multiple times while sending text messages and i have yet to get an international charge.. More then likely the + got ported over when you had the phonebook exported from your old device (whatever you had before this) and never took it off.. there is probably a world code check in the cdma code that tells the phone not to dial +1 world codes (due to teh fact it is highly redundent) but samsung probably failed to ensure this check existed in the SMS code (believe me, samsung forgot A LOT of stuff in the GSM->CDMA conversion.. the code is horribly sloppy and a headache to read)... It is incredibly likely it has nothing to do with the area reporting and has everything to do with the number is stored WITH the worldcode...

Easiest way is to simply look at your contacts in gmail (if you have gmail sync active) and see how the number is listed in your contacts...

I have Plus Code Dialing enabled and have yet to get any such charge..

Last edited by numus; January 11th, 2010 at 10:52 AM.

SlyFerret

I haven't been charged yet either.

I'm still waiting for somebody who has been charged to get the information from Sprint as to what number they were supposedly texting that got billed as international.

I still think that it is also possible that some app is trying to "phone home" via SMS, but without knowing what number the SMS was sent to, there's no way to determine if the SMS in question is one that the user actually sent on purpose. I don't want to jump to that conclusion until we know what number the SMS is being sent to.

-SF

colettak

As I said, I was billed for dialing a 919 number (which is a local number to me). I did have the +1 in front of the number, and the phone was automatically converting it to a 001 because of the "plus code dialing."

My point is even if you have the +1, the phone should be smart enough not to make it international if it doesn't need to be -- that is the intended design, anyway.

The two solutions are:

1) Turn off plus code dialing

or

2) Remove the preceding +1's from all your contact numbers.

The thing that is annoying is when I was typing in my contacts into google, it asked me if I wanted to let them automatically convert it to international phone format. Little did I know it would cause me to get charged for international texts.

numus

Once again.. more then likely this is because samsung forgot to port the conversion code to the moment...

Going to repeat it 1 more time... ANDROID 1.5 CUPCAKE IS NOT FOR CDMA!!!!!
It is for GSM Native thus ALL CDMA CODE was ported onto it... This means they might have missed somethings (and they missed a lot of things FYI)

COMPLAIN TO SAMSUNG NOT SPRINT... Sprint can't do a damn thing about it... all they can do is relay the message to samsung who has been downstairs in a sound proof bunker not letting us know what they are up to

"My point is even if you have the +1, the phone should be smart enough not to make it international if it doesn't need to be -- that is the intended design, anyway. "
Yes.. the phone is SUPPOSE to do this, but samsung screwed up and forgot to implement it it appears..

Last edited by numus; January 11th, 2010 at 11:50 AM.

SlyFerret

At least we know what's going on now!

-SF

betafan

An interesting theory. I was billed(later credited) for making/receiving intl texts on my december bill. Had 37 last month, and 20 so far this month. I'm not sure if I buy the plus code dialing, and here's why: only 4 or 5 of my contacts had the 1 in front of their number(synced through Google Contacts). One of those contacts with a one+ number, I have exchanged around 150 texts since I installed handcent(late november). If the 1 preceding the area code were to blame, I would expect many more intl text charges. At any rate, I went through all my contacts and deleted the "1's". I'll report back if I keep getting charged for intl texts.

For Sprint's part, the reps at the store had not heard of the issue, but credited me back no problem(actually, a couple extra bucks just for padding). They said I'll just have to come in or call CS until this problem is resolved. Fun stuff!!

Update: 1/13/10 No new intl text charges showing since I removed the '1' preceding my contacts. I'm beginning to believe.

Last edited by betafan; January 13th, 2010 at 03:34 PM. Reason: update

Othan1

I get international SMS whenever I go into down town San Diego. We're so close to the Mexican border I get Sprint's automated "Welcome to Sprint Mexico" messages and then switches my google to Spanish. heh. Kinda funny, but good to know I'll have signal if I ever decide to leave the country.

wilochka

I just got my bill and had one international text to Russia.

I blew it off, but mentioned it when I was calling Sprint for something else. I then googled it and found this post. I called them, they credited my account, but I insisted on more. They told me they cannot block international texts, but they can only block the number. I never received or sent any texts to Russia!

They credited my account and transferred me to tech support. Tech support found the charge but said it was incoming, so she couldn't give me a number. I asked why I was charged for incoming messages, and she said that's just the way it is. I told her I would definitely be calling back if I get any more.

So, if I received a text message from a russian phone number, but it never showed up in my inbox, I assume this means an application intercepted it. I'm very unhappy about this. Are there any logs I can look up to see what exactly these phones are doing? with or without root access?

AdamR

I work in SWW. Texting a US number from anywhere in the world is based on your texting plan.
The only way you would get charged is if you dialed the access and country code for another country.
I don't doubt this is a billing issue, but its not from AGPS.
Also, why in the hell have you guys not turned off "use wireless network" in the location options?

Last edited by AdamR; January 28th, 2010 at 08:15 PM.