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Old March 21st, 2012, 12:57 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Sean Peyton banned for 1 year, draft picks lost.

Sean Payton of New Orleans Saints banned one year for bounties - ESPN


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The NFL came down hard on the New Orleans Saints on Wednesday.

Saints coach Sean Payton has been suspended for one year, former defensive coordinator Gregg Williams was suspended indefinitely, general manager Mickey Loomis was suspended for the first eight regular-season games, the team was fined $500,000 and lost two second-round draft picks (one in 2012 and '13) as a result of a bounty program conducted by the team during the 2009-11 seasons that targeted opposing players.

Saints assistant coach Joe Vitt also was suspended six games and fined $100,000. The NFL said in its statement that the suspensions for Payton, Loomis and Vitt are without pay.

Payton's suspension is effective April 1. Commissioner Roger Goodell will meet with Williams after the 2012 season and determine the coach's status.

"We are all accountable and responsible for player health and safety and the integrity of the game," Goodell said in a statement announcing the punishments. "We will not tolerate conduct or a culture that undermines those priorities. No one is above the game or the rules that govern it. Respect for the game and the people who participate in it will not be compromised.

"A combination of elements made this matter particularly unusual and egregious," Goodell said. "When there is targeting of players for injury and cash rewards over a three-year period, the involvement of the coaching staff, and three years of denials and willful disrespect of the rules, a strong and lasting message must be sent that such conduct is totally unacceptable and has no place in the game."

The Saints now must decide who will coach the team while Payton is barred and who will make roster moves while Loomis is out.

Punishment for any Saints players involved will be determined later, because the league is still reviewing the case with the NFL Players Association.

Details of an NFL investigation released at the beginning on March reported that the Saints' bounty program gave thousands of dollars in payoffs to players for hits that knocked targeted opponents out of games. The NFL said the amounts reached their height in 2009, the season the Saints won the Super Bowl.

Williams, now defensive coordinator of the Rams, has admitted to and apologized for running the program.

Payton and Loomis apologized and took the blame for violations that "happened under our watch," but not until almost a week after the NFL pointed to them for failing to stop the program.

The NFL said payoffs went to 22 to 27 defensive players for inflicting game-ending injuries on targeted opponents, including quarterbacks Brett Favre and Kurt Warner. "Knockouts" were worth $1,500 and "cart-offs" $1,000, with payments doubled or tripled for the playoffs.

All payouts for specific performances in a game, including interceptions or causing fumbles, are against NFL rules. The NFL warns teams against such practices before each season, although in the aftermath of the revelations about the Saints, current and former players from various teams talked about that sort of thing happening frequently -- although not on the same scale as the NFL found in New Orleans.

Goodell has frequently taken a hard line on any action that threatens player safety. He suspended Detroit's Ndamukong Suh for two games for stomping on an opponent last season; banned Pittsburgh's James Harrison for one game after a series of flagrant hits that culminated in a collision with Cleveland quarterback Colt McCoy's helmet; and has ramped up the amount of fines for what the league terms "egregious hits."

The Saints' punishment dwarfs the penalty given to the New England Patriots for the 2007 Spygate scandal.

Goodell fined the Patriots $250,000 and their coach, Bill Belichick, $500,000, when the team was caught illegally videotaping the Jets' sideline. New England also was stripped of a first-round draft pick.

Seems a little excessive IMO. Unless the coaches were deliberately motivating these players to hurt the players on the opposing teams, then I don't see what the big deal is. You want your players to perform the best, you give them incentives for playing hard.

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Old March 21st, 2012, 01:35 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Sean Payton of New Orleans Saints banned one year for bounties - ESPN





Seems a little excessive IMO. Unless the coaches were deliberately motivating these players to hurt the players on the opposing teams, then I don't see what the big deal is. You want your players to perform the best, you give them incentives for playing hard.
If giving them $1,000 for a cart off and $1,500 for take outs isn't deliberately motivating them to hurt other players, then I'm not sure what is.
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Old March 21st, 2012, 01:38 PM   #3 (permalink)
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If giving them $1,000 for a cart off and $1,500 for take outs isn't deliberately motivating them to hurt other players, then I'm not sure what is.


lol, that's what I get for not reading the entire article before posting it up. Although, I can't help wonder if the sanctions are as severe as they are because the NFL is being sued by some former players.
 
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Old March 21st, 2012, 01:39 PM   #4 (permalink)
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lol, that's what I get for not reading the entire article before posting it up. Although, I can't help wonder if the sanctions are as severe as they are because the NFL is being sued by some former players.
This was brought up in another article I saw over at ESPN.
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Old March 22nd, 2012, 10:04 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Punishment WAY too harsh and does not fit the crime.
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Old March 22nd, 2012, 10:48 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Punishment WAY too harsh and does not fit the crime.
Agreed! If people thought this was a violation against player safety, where's all those hypocrites in reference to the 18-game season!?
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Old March 22nd, 2012, 10:56 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Agreed! If people thought this was a violation against player safety, where's all those hypocrites in reference to the 18-game season!?
This has NOTHING to do with player safety and EVERYTHING to do with The Shield protecting itself from future litigation.
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Old March 22nd, 2012, 11:16 AM   #8 (permalink)
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This has NOTHING to do with player safety and EVERYTHING to do with The Shield protecting itself from future litigation.
On SportsCenter last night, they kept saying how Goodell made the decision based on future player safety.
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Old March 22nd, 2012, 11:23 AM   #9 (permalink)
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On SportsCenter last night, they kept saying how Goodell made the decision based on future player safety.
Complete BS. Every move that man makes is a CYA and this is no different.
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Old March 22nd, 2012, 01:34 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Don't shoot the messenger. That is just what I heard on ESPN.
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Old March 22nd, 2012, 01:50 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Don't shoot the messenger. That is just what I heard on ESPN.
No, I wasn't coming at you I'm just saying that statement is complete BS and the NFL's track record on the subject of player safety v. potential future player litigation backs it up.
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Old March 22nd, 2012, 04:29 PM   #12 (permalink)
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How come the commissioner gave the New England Patriots a past when they was clearly cheating with the video taping of teams? He also destroyed the evidence. Robert Kraft help put Roger Goodell in office and are buddies thats why. This punishment is way too excessive when bounty for heads has been going on in the NFL forever. This is not a safe sport no matter how you try to make it safe, no sport is safe.
 
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Old March 22nd, 2012, 04:38 PM   #13 (permalink)
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This whole thing is SO blown out of proportion. EVERY team has a similar program and has since the day organized football started. I feel bad for the Saint's fans as they're being the most punished here and that's the LAST thing N.O. fans need right now.

I think it's funny how people refer to the Curt Warner hit as proof. WTF?!? You clearly don't watch football. Even Warner said that he was trying to make a play on the ball after an interception and was fair game. He said that the guy didn't go for his knees or his head and hit him solid center mass. He said that he didn't see anything malicious with that hit and HE'S the one who got hit! lol
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Old March 22nd, 2012, 05:58 PM   #14 (permalink)
 
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this is not about player safety.

this is entirely about NFL policy, which was laid down 3 seasons ago, and has been on going and investigated though that entire time.

the Saints personnel lied. the Saints players lied. they got caught. just because every team likely has a similar conduct does not make it right in any way. EVERYONE was told it was to stop. 3 freakin' seasons ago. Saints got caught. Saints lied. Saints covered it up.

if they had just stopped when they were told to stop, they wouldn't be in this predicament now....would they?

and that's why the punishment is so harsh. the message was sent. do what we tell you to do, or else you're gonna get smacked down.
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Old March 22nd, 2012, 07:49 PM   #15 (permalink)
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this is not about player safety.

this is entirely about NFL policy, which was laid down 3 seasons ago, and has been on going and investigated though that entire time.

the Saints personnel lied. the Saints players lied. they got caught. just because every team likely has a similar conduct does not make it right in any way. EVERYONE was told it was to stop. 3 freakin' seasons ago. Saints got caught. Saints lied. Saints covered it up.

if they had just stopped when they were told to stop, they wouldn't be in this predicament now....would they?

and that's why the punishment is so harsh. the message was sent. do what we tell you to do, or else you're gonna get smacked down.
While I do think the punishment is VERY severe, I think the Saints really made things worse on themselves by lying about it to investigators after the fact.
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Old March 22nd, 2012, 08:04 PM   #16 (permalink)
 
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it wasn't only after the fact, it was also DURING the fact.
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Old March 22nd, 2012, 08:18 PM   #17 (permalink)
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In no way do I think the punishments are too harsh. There is difference between getting paid to play a full contact sport. Getting paid to intentionally hurt another isn't the same and is making it come close to the line of a blood sport which is generally frowned upon. You may say the players know the risk of injury each Sunday at the time they are putting on the uniform but the chances of a player getting hurt when someone is playing football compared to when someone is trying to hurt you while playing football are quite different.
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Old March 23rd, 2012, 08:24 AM   #18 (permalink)
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The biggest problem I have is the NFL used to market its "big hits" and that was one of the NFL's biggest draws. Hell, just look at all the NFL "Hardest hits" VHS tapes and DVDs that were available just a few years ago. Amazon.com: The Best of Thunder and Destruction - NFL's Hardest Hits [VHS]: Various: Movies & TV


Now that players have decided to sue the NFL (with good reason since once you're exploited and run into the ground, I understand the care isn't what it used to be), the NFL is trying to minimize its liability.
 
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Old March 23rd, 2012, 03:45 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Sean Payton loses $5.8M due to his 1-yr suspension. Ouch!
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Old March 24th, 2012, 01:46 AM   #20 (permalink)
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The biggest problem I have is the NFL used to market its "big hits" and that was one of the NFL's biggest draws. Hell, just look at all the NFL "Hardest hits" VHS tapes and DVDs that were available just a few years ago. Amazon.com: The Best of Thunder and Destruction - NFL's Hardest Hits [VHS]: Various: Movies & TV


Now that players have decided to sue the NFL (with good reason since once you're exploited and run into the ground, I understand the care isn't what it used to be), the NFL is trying to minimize its liability.
Yeah, they used the huge hits to put them on the map with bits like 'Jacked up!' and similar and selling the prints of big hit moments and selling entire video collections of bone jarring hits and now, suddenly, they're 100% against all of it & we're supposed to believe they care about player safety just now. ORLY?
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Old March 24th, 2012, 04:50 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Yes, he deserved punishment, but this is outragous and far to severe. Makes my blood boil just thinking about it.
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Old March 24th, 2012, 08:04 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Yeah, they used the huge hits to put them on the map with bits like 'Jacked up!' and similar and selling the prints of big hit moments and selling entire video collections of bone jarring hits and now, suddenly, they're 100% against all of it & we're supposed to believe they care about player safety just now. ORLY?
The difference I see is you can have a big hit but it be something that happens naturally in the course of the game, that happens and I don't see a problem. But setting out with an agenda to injure someone is changing the game.

Safety has been a priority for a while. Rules about helmets, horse collar tackles, helmet to helmet hit...all implemented for player safety, sure if/when a player gets hurt they are going to capitalize on it but the safety of the players is also important, just because it is a violent sport doesn't mean they don't care about the players.

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Yes, he deserved punishment, but this is outragous and far to severe. Makes my blood boil just thinking about it.
IMO he got what he earned. They wanted to set a standard that you do not do this to prevent it from happening again. I would be willing to bet if it does happen again with another team the punishment is going to be worse.
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Old March 24th, 2012, 10:32 AM   #23 (permalink)
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IMO he got what he earned. They wanted to set a standard that you do not do this to prevent it from happening again. I would be willing to bet if it does happen again with another team the punishment is going to be worse.
The only thing worse would be a lifetime ban. Let's not forget suspended without pay. So he basically got a 7 million dollar fine. That's just outragous.
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Old March 24th, 2012, 10:36 AM   #24 (permalink)
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The only thing worse would be a lifetime ban. Let's not forget suspended without pay. So he basically got a 7 million dollar fine. That's just outragous.
He shouldn't have let that go on. Do you think after seeing what they got any other team will allow this to happen again?
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Old March 24th, 2012, 11:50 AM   #25 (permalink)
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He shouldn't have let that go on. Do you think after seeing what they got any other team will allow this to happen again?
You can't honestly believe the saints were thr only NFL team doing this. I dont disagree that he should be punished but the punishment is way to excessive. Even most of the ex players/anaylast agree the punishment does not fit the crime.
Not to mention how screwed up the NFL appeals proceuis. Roger Goodell is basically a dictator. He is the judge, jury, and excetioner of the NFL. Everything has to go through him, a d thats not how an appeal process should work.
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Old March 24th, 2012, 12:08 PM   #26 (permalink)
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I agree the appeals process should be different. And there have likely been things like this going on for years. The thing is it shouldn't be and because of the punishment it will likely stop.

I still don't see a problem with the punishment. $7 million fine is fitting, they were rewarding players for hurting others...had one of the bountied players had their career ended I bet it would make them lose much more than $7 million...and for what? The other player getting $1500

It is a disrespect to the bounted players and the game in general.
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Old March 26th, 2012, 07:48 AM   #27 (permalink)
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You have to think as fans we watch this game as a sport but for the player it is a job, and one solid late hit from Darren Sharper is enough to end a 23 year olds career for good. All it takes is one hit for these people to lose their future ending a new players career can be much worse than a 7 mil fine......they were intentionally trying to hurt people....these are grown men they should have known better. Also if you want a nice example why dont you take a quick second to look at the hit that Peyton Manning took before his first Neck Surgery.......Strange coincidence that Mr. Gregg Williams was the opposing Coordinator for the Skins that game.....
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Old March 26th, 2012, 07:49 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Typical Roger Goodhell overreaction. Punish the offenders, yes. Overdoing it? That's this worthless commissioner's way.
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Old March 26th, 2012, 12:01 PM   #29 (permalink)
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You have to think as fans we watch this game as a sport but for the player it is a job, and one solid late hit from Darren Sharper is enough to end a 23 year olds career for good. All it takes is one hit for these people to lose their future ending a new players career can be much worse than a 7 mil fine......they were intentionally trying to hurt people....these are grown men they should have known better. Also if you want a nice example why dont you take a quick second to look at the hit that Peyton Manning took before his first Neck Surgery.......Strange coincidence that Mr. Gregg Williams was the opposing Coordinator for the Skins that game.....
Maybe they should have picked baseball if they're worried about getting hit since EVERYONE is one hit away from a career ending injury in the NFL.
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Old March 26th, 2012, 12:39 PM   #30 (permalink)
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He is going to ask Parcells to coach the team this year,
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Old March 26th, 2012, 12:41 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Maybe they should have picked baseball if they're worried about getting hit since EVERYONE is one hit away from a career ending injury in the NFL.
That isn't the point. If the other person is going to be given a bonus for injuring you they are likely going to try to hit you in a way to cause injury not just get you down. Big difference there
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Old March 26th, 2012, 01:10 PM   #32 (permalink)
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That isn't the point. If the other person is going to be given a bonus for injuring you they are likely going to try to hit you in a way to cause injury not just get you down. Big difference there
It is the point. This is the NFL and every single player getting paid millions to play knows full well the risk whenever they take the field and not just game-time against another team. Many careers are ended on the practice fields. It's a hard hitting, gladiator sport and men play it. Men who know that their very livelihood is at stake with every move they make regardless of what other players are thinking.

You play much football? That's a rhetorical question because I know the answer. If what you say is true and they really were trying to hurt someone the easiest way is to go for the knees. Why do you think it was one of the earliest 'player protection' type penalties which was put in place years before all this other BS? People talk about the Brett Favre & Curt Warner hit and BOTH hits were clean mid-section hits. In BOTH cases the player could have just as easily gone for the side of the knee if they wanted to injure them. Same thing with that Peyton Manning hit you talked about. There isn't a Doctor alive let alone NFL defensive player that could have known a hard hit would have caused Peyton's neck injury. NOBODY knew. It's one of those freak injuries that occur in football and it can be caused by hard hits or glancing blows. If he truly wanted to injure Peyton he would have gone for the knees. It's a simple fact of the game and in no season during this 'bounty' was N.O. flagged for my personal fouls, chop blocks or low hits on a QB than any other team in the NFL nor were opposing payers injured at a higher rate than other teams. It just cracks me up when people who know NOTHING about the sport get all worked up about something they know little about.

The punishment was for denying it and trying to cover it up and is too harsh. It makes it seem like the league 'cares' more whenever you say it's about player safety. Don't fall for the media hype on what the issue really is.
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Old March 26th, 2012, 01:26 PM   #33 (permalink)
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It is the point. This is the NFL and every single player getting paid millions to play knows full well the risk whenever they take the field and not just game-time against another team. Many careers are ended on the practice fields. It's a hard hitting, gladiator sport and men play it. Men who know that their very livelihood is at stake with every move they make regardless of what other players are thinking.

You play much football? That's a rhetorical question because I know the answer. If what you say is true and they really were trying to hurt someone the easiest way is to go for the knees. Why do you think it was one of the earliest 'player protection' type penalties which was put in place years before all this other BS? People talk about the Brett Favre & Curt Warner hit and BOTH hits were clean mid-section hits. In BOTH cases the player could have just as easily gone for the side of the knee if they wanted to injure them. Same thing with that Peyton Manning hit you talked about. There isn't a Doctor alive let alone NFL defensive player that could have known a hard hit would have caused Peyton's neck injury. NOBODY knew. It's one of those freak injuries that occur in football and it can be caused by hard hits or glancing blows. If he truly wanted to injure Peyton he would have gone for the knees. It's a simple fact of the game and in no season during this 'bounty' was N.O. flagged for my personal fouls, chop blocks or low hits on a QB than any other team in the NFL nor were opposing payers injured at a higher rate than other teams. It just cracks me up when people who know NOTHING about the sport get all worked up about something they know little about.

The punishment was for denying it and trying to cover it up and is too harsh. It makes it seem like the league 'cares' more whenever you say it's about player safety. Don't fall for the media hype on what the issue really is.
And if what you are saying...it's all about money...is true then it is fair for 1 player to get paid $1500 to end another's career which is a loss much more than $7 million...but that "fine" is unfair...that makes no sense to me...Yes they have decided to play a sport that does involve injury not be a competitor in a fight...there are other sports for that.

Please try to stay on the topic at hand and not make assumptions on me and what I am a fan of or played in the past I am a fan of the NFL. I pull for the Panthers so my opinion may be biased since this turn of events is potentially beneficial to my team next season and I am sure our rookie QB had a price on his head when they played NO. Sure had his career been ended it would have been fair because that is part of the game...and there is no way he could ever have made more than that measly bounty in the rest of his career.

The punishment sucks for NO fans and St Louis fans I will agree with that. I still don't think it is unfair. The league has said this isn't to be going on and they didn't abide.
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Old March 26th, 2012, 01:36 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Very big difference between stopping someone from impacting the game using your talent to the best of your ability and intentionally trying to hurt them to make a bonus

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Old March 26th, 2012, 01:48 PM   #35 (permalink)
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I think one thing being overlooked in this thread regarding the severity of the punishment are the prior actions and coverup. They were interviewed about this initally between the NFC Championship game and the Superbowl in 2009 and denied it. Not only did they deny it, they kept doing it for two more years and continued to cover it up. They also made their owner look like an ass as he instructed them to put an end to it and they simply told him they had.

This is why the penalties are so much more severe than Spygate. In that case, the Pats got caught when it was initally investigated, turned everything over to the NFL and didn't try to cover it up or continue doing it.
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Old March 31st, 2012, 04:08 PM   #36 (permalink)
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How come the commissioner gave the New England Patriots a past when they was clearly cheating with the video taping of teams? He also destroyed the evidence. Robert Kraft help put Roger Goodell in office and are buddies thats why. This punishment is way too excessive when bounty for heads has been going on in the NFL forever. This is not a safe sport no matter how you try to make it safe, no sport is safe.
This ^^^
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Old March 31st, 2012, 07:11 PM   #37 (permalink)
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How come the commissioner gave the New England Patriots a past when they was clearly cheating with the video taping of teams? He also destroyed the evidence. Robert Kraft help put Roger Goodell in office and are buddies thats why. This punishment is way too excessive when bounty for heads has been going on in the NFL forever. This is not a safe sport no matter how you try to make it safe, no sport is safe.
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This ^^^
Umm......

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I think one thing being overlooked in this thread regarding the severity of the punishment are the prior actions and coverup. They were interviewed about this initally between the NFC Championship game and the Superbowl in 2009 and denied it. Not only did they deny it, they kept doing it for two more years and continued to cover it up. They also made their owner look like an ass as he instructed them to put an end to it and they simply told him they had.

This is why the penalties are so much more severe than Spygate. In that case, the Pats got caught when it was initally investigated, turned everything over to the NFL and didn't try to cover it up or continue doing it.
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Old April 2nd, 2012, 12:18 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 09:01 AM   #39 (permalink)
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lmao knows nothing!!!!
im a flagship fan just like the masses in each NFL city i have watched football since i can remember with my father all my life....through all the lows and the highs i have always been a hometown Bucs fan if you feel you have the ability to i would to see you out wit me when it comes to knowing this sport im certain your claim is farcely exaggerrated

btw his name is Kurt Warner and i was there when we lost the NFC Championship game to the Rams...........miles away from home

LMAO Mr. Know it All
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 09:05 AM   #40 (permalink)
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It is the point. This is the NFL and every single player getting paid millions to play knows full well the risk whenever they take the field and not just game-time against another team. Many careers are ended on the practice fields. It's a hard hitting, gladiator sport and men play it. Men who know that their very livelihood is at stake with every move they make regardless of what other players are thinking.

You play much football? That's a rhetorical question because I know the answer. If what you say is true and they really were trying to hurt someone the easiest way is to go for the knees. Why do you think it was one of the earliest 'player protection' type penalties which was put in place years before all this other BS? People talk about the Brett Favre & Curt Warner hit and BOTH hits were clean mid-section hits. In BOTH cases the player could have just as easily gone for the side of the knee if they wanted to injure them. Same thing with that Peyton Manning hit you talked about. There isn't a Doctor alive let alone NFL defensive player that could have known a hard hit would have caused Peyton's neck injury. NOBODY knew. It's one of those freak injuries that occur in football and it can be caused by hard hits or glancing blows. If he truly wanted to injure Peyton he would have gone for the knees. It's a simple fact of the game and in no season during this 'bounty' was N.O. flagged for my personal fouls, chop blocks or low hits on a QB than any other team in the NFL nor were opposing payers injured at a higher rate than other teams. It just cracks me up when people who know NOTHING about the sport get all worked up about something they know little about.

The punishment was for denying it and trying to cover it up and is too harsh. It makes it seem like the league 'cares' more whenever you say it's about player safety. Don't fall for the media hype on what the issue really is.
I disagree with you if you think an intentional hit isn't more likely to hurt someone then just playing the game the way it should be......Steve Smith loved it when he was blind sided in the endzone after that spectacular catch against the saints.....they were cheaters and now they pay...also do you have stats to back up your claims let see you produce the numbers of late hits and personal foul violations to support your "simple fact"
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 03:18 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Just a friendly reminder guys that its okay to cut-block the issues but not the members .

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Old April 5th, 2012, 02:58 PM   #42 (permalink)
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i bet you condone the coaches comments that were released too....lol
anyman that knows someone has concussion issues and advised his players to do anything they can to cause another is a sick induvidual....people die from those and his disregard for player safety is why he will never coach an Nfl team or Position for that matter in his life
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Old April 5th, 2012, 04:54 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Just a friendly reminder guys that its okay to cut-block the issues but not the members .

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Chop blocks are illegal. I'm going to have to suspend you from the AFL (Android Football League) for 1 year and no soup(er bowl) for you!







Back to the topic though, I remember in school, all the way up through high school, we were taught to get into the backfield, strike the QB, RB, FB as hard as we can. We weren't told to take cheap shots, but we were taught to grind the opposing player into the dirt. You had to make the QB hear footsteps, make the RB and FB run around with happy feet wondering where the next big blow was coming from.

Sadly, IMO what's happening is we're living in a society that's hopped-up on too much estrogen. We're being told that corporal punishment is too violent. Everyone gets a blue ribbon now. Don't stare down your opponent or we'll get you for taunting, but it's ok if you want to express your feelings to him. Even this place has been a bit infected. Site rules that seem to inhibit the slightest sarcasm, and calling out each other's posts, well that's just outright barbaric. Eventually, our society is going to be so whipped that even Mr. Rogers would say "You *$&!ies!"
 
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Old April 5th, 2012, 09:38 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Chop blocks are illegal. I'm going to have to suspend you from the AFL (Android Football League) for 1 year and no soup(er bowl) for you!

Back to the topic though, I remember in school, all the way up through high school, we were taught to get into the backfield, strike the QB, RB, FB as hard as we can. We weren't told to take cheap shots, but we were taught to grind the opposing player into the dirt. You had to make the QB hear footsteps, make the RB and FB run around with happy feet wondering where the next big blow was coming from.

Sadly, IMO what's happening is we're living in a society that's hopped-up on too much estrogen. We're being told that corporal punishment is too violent. Everyone gets a blue ribbon now. Don't stare down your opponent or we'll get you for taunting, but it's ok if you want to express your feelings to him. Even this place has been a bit infected. Site rules that seem to inhibit the slightest sarcasm, and calling out each other's posts, well that's just outright barbaric. Eventually, our society is going to be so whipped that even Mr. Rogers would say "You *$&!ies!"
I don't say this real often but I agree with you. I'm a pretty big dude and played football at most levels (not pro) and can tell you that the ONLY people in an uproar over this are people who have never played (if they did it was in Jr High and they stood on the sidelines) and can't understand how violent of a sport it is. If it was easy, everyone would do it and it would be boring to watch.. like baseball!

To be honest with you MyTjSux; the ONLY thing that I disapproved of from what they've released of the coach's speech was the part where he talked about about going after the ACL of Frank Gore. That part you've quoted and the part the media is going after is where he talks about turning Gore's head sideways. Taken out of context they seem like he's calling for them to injury people. The truth of the matter is he was talking about the other team's injury report the night before and they were going down the list. He said that if the player has a concussion we're going to see if he really should be playing or if he's a decoy. The way you find out is hit them HARD early on and if they want out... they're still injured and you know it was just a front. This sort of gamesmanship occurs at ALL levels. Coaches claim certain players are good to go when in reality they aren't and they do that so the other team has to prepare for that. Not that you need a reason to hit someone hard but that's the person you focus on before the game. If they're not healthy, they shouldn't be playing. If they are then it's just like hitting someone else so it's nothing the defense coach was doing that isn't done by EVERY other coach. The part where he talks about taking the head he's speaking metaphorically. Frank Gore is a beast and at the time was considered the head of the monster. It's a common statement to take the head and the body will fall and is often used to describe the best player of a team. He talks about turning his head sideways and this is, again, football speak. As a defense you don't want a running back running downhill. You want them running sideways so you can swarm and stop them. Saying to turn their head sideways and running them sideways is pretty common. Again, out of context. There's a LOT to this speech that's being left out because it creates ratings. The part about the ACL was also talking about the injury report but ANYONE who plays football will tell you that the easiest way to injure someone is the knees and you're always worried about your knees. You want to piss someone off enough to throw punches? Go for their knees. You can hit them anywhere else (even the head) and football players won't care a bit because it's part of the game.

If this was truly about player safety and health then why does the NFL deny ALL claims for health benefits & workman's comp? 100% are denied and it's up to the players and past players to jump through hoops and fight the system to get what they are due. Why are they talking about 18 game seasons when it's been proven that this will significantly decrease the strength and health of the players? The simple answer is that they don't give a shit about the health of the players other than to keep the ambulatory to keep making money off of them. They're protecting themselves from future law suits is the ONLY reason for all of this. If the NFL had law suit immunity from previous players we wouldn't be having this conversation right now.

They were warned against this and lied and covered it up. For that they deserve to be punished. An example should be made. At the same time the punishment for the cover-up was WAY too steep and if it was for the bounty then I guess we just need to take next season off because it happens on EVERY team. Most of the time it's informal in the locker rooms and it's not too often a coach gets involved or organizes it but it does happen. The funny part is if it was that big of an incentive or that big of a deal to the players (remember those guys?) we would see EVERY player diving for knees on EVERY play and you almost never see it. It's just incentive to HIT someone HARD which is what you try to do every play. You will hear players when asked by the media say that they never want to hurt another player. I can tell you that that's a lie. You hit with the intention to take someone out of the game on EVERY play. You literally want to remove someone from the game and if you don't then you don't have the drive it takes to play the game and do it well. You'll wash out at an early age and then talk on internet forums about how people out there are playing paddy cake most plays. When a player says that they don't mean to hurt them they mean from means that could be construed as dirty such as going for someone's knee or something. Everything else is just a hard football hit. End of story. It's a man's sport and real men play it and if that bothers you then find another sport to watch.

I hate having this conversation with mamby pambies who don't know what football is really like so I usually choose not to.
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Old April 5th, 2012, 10:51 PM   #45 (permalink)
 
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Deion Sanders(Falcons, 49ers, Cowboys). and more recently, Antonio Cromartie(Chargers and Jets).

2 players that didn't/don't hit players to take them out of the game. shoot, neither of them even make attemps at making tackles.

they sure didn't "have the drive it takes to play the game and do it well". noooo they surely didn't. not at all...in any way...
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Old April 9th, 2012, 12:20 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Looks like the NFL denied the appeal. NFL upholds suspension of New Orleans Saints' Sean Payton, Mickey Loomis and Joe Vitt - ESPN


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Old April 11th, 2012, 12:52 AM   #47 (permalink)
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I don't say this real often but I agree with you. I'm a pretty big dude and played football at most levels (not pro) and can tell you that the ONLY people in an uproar over this are people who have never played (if they did it was in Jr High and they stood on the sidelines) and can't understand how violent of a sport it is. If it was easy, everyone would do it and it would be boring to watch.. like baseball!

To be honest with you MyTjSux; the ONLY thing that I disapproved of from what they've released of the coach's speech was the part where he talked about about going after the ACL of Frank Gore. That part you've quoted and the part the media is going after is where he talks about turning Gore's head sideways. Taken out of context they seem like he's calling for them to injury people. The truth of the matter is he was talking about the other team's injury report the night before and they were going down the list. He said that if the player has a concussion we're going to see if he really should be playing or if he's a decoy. The way you find out is hit them HARD early on and if they want out... they're still injured and you know it was just a front. This sort of gamesmanship occurs at ALL levels. Coaches claim certain players are good to go when in reality they aren't and they do that so the other team has to prepare for that. Not that you need a reason to hit someone hard but that's the person you focus on before the game. If they're not healthy, they shouldn't be playing. If they are then it's just like hitting someone else so it's nothing the defense coach was doing that isn't done by EVERY other coach. The part where he talks about taking the head he's speaking metaphorically. Frank Gore is a beast and at the time was considered the head of the monster. It's a common statement to take the head and the body will fall and is often used to describe the best player of a team. He talks about turning his head sideways and this is, again, football speak. As a defense you don't want a running back running downhill. You want them running sideways so you can swarm and stop them. Saying to turn their head sideways and running them sideways is pretty common. Again, out of context. There's a LOT to this speech that's being left out because it creates ratings. The part about the ACL was also talking about the injury report but ANYONE who plays football will tell you that the easiest way to injure someone is the knees and you're always worried about your knees. You want to piss someone off enough to throw punches? Go for their knees. You can hit them anywhere else (even the head) and football players won't care a bit because it's part of the game.

If this was truly about player safety and health then why does the NFL deny ALL claims for health benefits & workman's comp? 100% are denied and it's up to the players and past players to jump through hoops and fight the system to get what they are due. Why are they talking about 18 game seasons when it's been proven that this will significantly decrease the strength and health of the players? The simple answer is that they don't give a shit about the health of the players other than to keep the ambulatory to keep making money off of them. They're protecting themselves from future law suits is the ONLY reason for all of this. If the NFL had law suit immunity from previous players we wouldn't be having this conversation right now.

They were warned against this and lied and covered it up. For that they deserve to be punished. An example should be made. At the same time the punishment for the cover-up was WAY too steep and if it was for the bounty then I guess we just need to take next season off because it happens on EVERY team. Most of the time it's informal in the locker rooms and it's not too often a coach gets involved or organizes it but it does happen. The funny part is if it was that big of an incentive or that big of a deal to the players (remember those guys?) we would see EVERY player diving for knees on EVERY play and you almost never see it. It's just incentive to HIT someone HARD which is what you try to do every play. You will hear players when asked by the media say that they never want to hurt another player. I can tell you that that's a lie. You hit with the intention to take someone out of the game on EVERY play. You literally want to remove someone from the game and if you don't then you don't have the drive it takes to play the game and do it well. You'll wash out at an early age and then talk on internet forums about how people out there are playing paddy cake most plays. When a player says that they don't mean to hurt them they mean from means that could be construed as dirty such as going for someone's knee or something. Everything else is just a hard football hit. End of story. It's a man's sport and real men play it and if that bothers you then find another sport to watch.

I hate having this conversation with mamby pambies who don't know what football is really like so I usually choose not to.
That's fine if players want to hit hard and hurt people, I understand that, that's part of the game. I don't even have a problem with players doing their own bounty programs behind close doors. That's up to the them. What I don't think it's apart of the game is a systematic bounty/reward system that is backed up by coaches. I think that just wrong. No coaches/organization should give out incentives to injure other players, however small the incentive may be.
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