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Old October 23rd, 2009, 11:28 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Low on space

Just got a notification that my phone storage space is getting low..only 6mbs left..and I did see a thread someone mentioned things not getting deleted from memory and I cant seem to free up any space deleting apps or scenes either.

Very confused as I only have 15ish~ Apps from the market installed, auto task killer is killing almost everything to up my battery life, I delete most of my emails..

Im also now experiencing a ton of lock-ups when trying to scroll through things like my application list, sometimes screens, loading the mail app etc..

Anyone else have this problem? This just started happening yesterday/today and before that it was running flawlessly

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Old October 23rd, 2009, 11:31 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Default I agree

This is unacceptable. I had the same issue. had to reset device and now I am afraid to install apps.
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Old October 23rd, 2009, 11:41 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Assuming you did a factory reset? Id really like to avoid losing my contacts..

Getting alot of unresponsiveness from my unlock screen and notifications shade..

Any help from anyone? Take it back? Ive had it since the 11th and these are the first problems I have had..and it doesnt have "with Google" on the back so you know id kinda rather keep it :-p
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Old October 23rd, 2009, 12:18 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default With Google

Which have you heard is better? "With Google" or "htc" on the back?

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Originally Posted by laramieb View Post
Assuming you did a factory reset? Id really like to avoid losing my contacts..

Getting alot of unresponsiveness from my unlock screen and notifications shade..

Any help from anyone? Take it back? Ive had it since the 11th and these are the first problems I have had..and it doesnt have "with Google" on the back so you know id kinda rather keep it :-p
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Old October 23rd, 2009, 12:43 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Which have you heard is better? "With Google" or "htc" on the back?
Neither is "better". Without Google just means the device is from an earlier production run. It's all about preference.
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Old October 23rd, 2009, 12:59 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Same problem. I just posted this on another blog:

I've only switched to Android since the Sprint Hero has become available and I love it except for one huge, glaring flaw (to me anyway) and that is the inability to install apps to the SD card.

I understand you can do this if you root your phone, but this should have been designed into Android from the beginning without having to mod anything. It is not even possible yet on the Sprint Hero. And how is the non-techie mass-market that Android is trying to appeal to going to be able to do this? I've only had my phone for a couple weeks, have downloaded less than 20 apps, and am getting low memory notifications. Clearing Browser and Google Maps cache helps, until I reuse those applications a few more times...

This limitation has taken something potentially great and cripled it.
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Old October 23rd, 2009, 01:32 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Same problem. I just posted this on another blog:

I've only switched to Android since the Sprint Hero has become available and I love it except for one huge, glaring flaw (to me anyway) and that is the inability to install apps to the SD card.

I understand you can do this if you root your phone, but this should have been designed into Android from the beginning without having to mod anything. It is not even possible yet on the Sprint Hero. And how is the non-techie mass-market that Android is trying to appeal to going to be able to do this? I've only had my phone for a couple weeks, have downloaded less than 20 apps, and am getting low memory notifications. Clearing Browser and Google Maps cache helps, until I reuse those applications a few more times...

This limitation has taken something potentially great and cripled it.

I have this very same issue, is this something that developers are going to be able fix or are we stuck with this terrible flaw
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Old October 23rd, 2009, 01:33 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I agree we should not get space errors. Third party apps should default to the SD card. I uninstalled some apps add-on apps I did not need IE the toggle tools (as they are built in). Then I reboot no reset necessary.
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Old October 23rd, 2009, 01:36 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I sync my contacts to google it is like a free .ME account. Your contacts will then be downloaded and uploaded to thier servers instead of a PC or on the phone. I like this feature a lot.


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Originally Posted by laramieb View Post
Assuming you did a factory reset? Id really like to avoid losing my contacts..

Getting alot of unresponsiveness from my unlock screen and notifications shade..

Any help from anyone? Take it back? Ive had it since the 11th and these are the first problems I have had..and it doesnt have "with Google" on the back so you know id kinda rather keep it :-p
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Old October 23rd, 2009, 01:36 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Personally, I'm hoping someone finds a way to remove the included apps without having to root the phone. Not a NASCAR or Sports fan myself. Don't use Twitter on the go. Don't sync with any email besides Gmail. Don't use any IM networks. Don't buy music off Amazon. You get the idea.

All that could be space I could recover for my own needs.
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Old October 23rd, 2009, 01:38 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Good show. I tried to ditch the nascar and failed miserably hahahah. maybe rooting is the way to go to add SD for apps as well. Although I thought the Sprint flavor of rooting was not out? Also I kind of like not having to JB/Root to do stuff.

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Personally, I'm hoping someone finds a way to remove the included apps without having to root the phone. Not a NASCAR or Sports fan myself. Don't use Twitter on the go. Don't sync with any email besides Gmail. Don't use any IM networks. Don't buy music off Amazon. You get the idea.

All that could be space I could recover for my own needs.
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Old October 23rd, 2009, 01:39 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by pdragon View Post
Personally, I'm hoping someone finds a way to remove the included apps without having to root the phone. Not a NASCAR or Sports fan myself. Don't use Twitter on the go. Don't sync with any email besides Gmail. Don't use any IM networks. Don't buy music off Amazon. You get the idea.

All that could be space I could recover for my own needs.

This would be great as well as finding a way to install and run apps off of the 32gb sd that they made available to the Hero, would truly make this phone a "Hero" pun intended
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Old October 23rd, 2009, 03:08 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I love it except for one huge, glaring flaw (to me anyway) and that is the inability to install apps to the SD card.
Unfortunately there's also a 'glaring flaw' if you do install apps to the external storage card; unmounting the card while in use, as is done when connecting via USB, can either crash the phone or corrupt the card.
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Old October 23rd, 2009, 03:34 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Which to me also falls into the category of "should have been designed better".

I LOVE this phone, I really do. But a big part of why I switched from the iPhone was the fact that _I_ bought this device, I want to be able to do whatever I want to it, I own it.

To find out that I can't put a custom ROM on because it's locked down...isn't disappointing, it's flat out stupid.

I haven't had space issues yet, but I'll be honest, it does make me leery hearing it come up more and more after only a few weeks.
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Old October 23rd, 2009, 03:40 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Which to me also falls into the category of "should have been designed better".

I LOVE this phone, I really do. But a big part of why I switched from the iPhone was the fact that _I_ bought this device, I want to be able to do whatever I want to it, I own it.

To find out that I can't put a custom ROM on because it's locked down...isn't disappointing, it's flat out stupid.

I haven't had space issues yet, but I'll be honest, it does make me leery hearing it come up more and more after only a few weeks.
Welcome the US phone market. I get what you're trying to say and totally agree with you. But the US market lately is much more into leasing things to people than outright selling. Just look at the music & software industries. There's very few cell carriers that have completely opened up their major market phones to let the users do whatever they want with them.

At least you can install unofficial apps without rooting the phone. It's just a checkbox in the Settings. Android is a step closer in the right direction, compared to what's been available lately.
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Old October 23rd, 2009, 04:35 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Youve done hijacked my thread!

So I went and deleted all my emails, extra scenes, a few apps, cleared all my browser stuff, powered off/on the phone and im still at....low memory..I cant do anything..take pictures or even add a frickin photo frame to one of my screens..

help.
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Old October 23rd, 2009, 08:41 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by laramieb View Post
Youve done hijacked my thread!

So I went and deleted all my emails, extra scenes, a few apps, cleared all my browser stuff, powered off/on the phone and im still at....low memory..I cant do anything..take pictures or even add a frickin photo frame to one of my screens..

help.
You likely have a too much stuff loading at start and trying to do stuff, queuing up system calls, and so on. I can't replicate the behavior you are describing to be completely honest. If I remove an app I get space back. But the space available for apps is not the same as the memory in which apps run. Are you running out of storage or is the phone telling you it's low on memory because those are two very different things.

ROM = OS and APPS: 512 MB
RAM = Memory where OS and apps run: 288 MB

And never the twain shall meet. If you are running out of memory you likely have a badly coded app somewhere. If you are running out of storage space then you have installed too much stuff. Different solutions would be required. Please elaborate on what the problem you are seeing actually is.
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Old October 23rd, 2009, 09:24 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I am actually running out of storage. I've only got maybe 10 apps, no calendar entries, no saved emails, no bookmarks, no extra scenes, 6 pictures taken with camera..this thing is basically new save my contacts texts some pics on sd card...it should NOT be low on storage. And like i said after deleting things I'm gaining no space..I'm now not receiving texts cant take pics..nothin.

My RAM seems to be fine besides some lockups and bad scrolling..
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Old October 24th, 2009, 02:10 AM   #19 (permalink)
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I had the same issue. It started when I noticed that my my memory went down to 15mb from roughly 63mb. I erased some apps but then my memory went down to 3mb. Around the same time I stopped receiving sms's and voicemail. Hard reseting the phone multiple did not fix the sms or voicemail issue, not sure about the ROM leak. Called Sprint twice. First time the rep who's call center is taking "all Hero calls" seemed surprised and when she started researching the issue it seemed like she had ran into an issue that was just developing and her tone changed. She promised she would call me back within the hour but never did. Second time the rep said to return it to Best Buy as there is an issue with a "bad batch". I did that today and all my missed sms's and voicemails started rolling in. The new phone I got is a "with Google" version and is revision A. Tonight I noticed my ROM memory went down from 93mb to 53mb without me adding any new applications since this afternoon. My guess is that there is a serious ROM leak happening. It may be an issue with the phone or an application that is being loaded. I am not running any app killers. I am going to guess that the phone's ability to receive sms and vm messages gets corrupted when the ROM gets full. I've seen various posts of people who have stopped receiving both, maybe it has been brought upon by the memory issue. Some have been able to fix it with a hard reset others like me have not been quite so lucky. I would advise you all that if you start developing this issue not to let your phone's ROM go down too low. For those of you that have run into this problem what apps do you have installed? Maybe we can find a culprit. I will post mine tomorrow. I have 25 apps and it is very late here.
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Old October 24th, 2009, 09:40 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Noticed a similar drop in available space too. Mine is much less severe, but confusing none the less. I usually have between 38-60 Mb showing, but yesterday I powered off my phone and on restart I had 88...more than ever had. Throughout the day I noticed that drop back into the 60's.

I use Advanced Task Manager and constantly kill processes in the list, but I've noticed that using the same apps and killing them yields a slightly different amount of free space each time. And I never set any default/ignore settings either.

It definitely seems there's a leak somewhere.
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Old October 24th, 2009, 02:06 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Sabre66 I believe what you are describing is RAM usage and perfectly normal. Difference between ROM and ROM is RAM is filled with programs and information currently in use in the background and foreground. Therefore throughout the day your memory will go down as you open more programs and data and keep it active. The system should maintain that number at a usable level so 30mb of free RAM is normal. When you kill a program or restart your phone if frees up RAM because it is not active in the background. Now ROM is the area where you store your programs, think of it as a hard drive. This should not change significantly throughout the day unless you add more programs or receive an extreme number of emails into your ROM. To check your available ROM memory go to Settings > SD Card and Phone Storage and it will be listed under "available space".


My ROM memory went from 53mb to 31mb this morning. Without adding anything. I will be doing a hard reste on the phone and running stock for a day or two to see if that helps. Then I will install Programs slowly to try and isolate if one of the apps is the issue.


These are the programs I have Installed:

Amazon.com
Astro File Manager
Bank of America
Battery Widget
Boxee Remote
Cardio Trainer
CArdio TRainer Race Aganist Yourself
Car Locator Free
Connect Four
Craigsphone
DC Metro Map
Dogg Catcher
Facebook
FakeCall Free
FX Camera
Google Skymap
Google Voice
gtasks
Handcent SMS
Jelix Lite
Last. FM
Keyring
Layar
Locale
Movies aka Flixter
My Backup Pro
Myspace
Nimbuzz
Package Tracking
Pandora
Power Manager
Qik
Quickoffice
Shazam
Steel
The Weather Channel
Wikitude
Xgalaxy 2 Lite
Toggle Headset Widget

Runnig Clock and Weather Widget
Pandora Widget
Battery Widget
Twitter
Wifi, Bluetooth, GPS Widget
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Old October 24th, 2009, 02:25 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by laramieb View Post
I am actually running out of storage. I've only got maybe 10 apps, no calendar entries, no saved emails, no bookmarks, no extra scenes, 6 pictures taken with camera..this thing is basically new save my contacts texts some pics on sd card...it should NOT be low on storage. And like i said after deleting things I'm gaining no space..I'm now not receiving texts cant take pics..nothin.

My RAM seems to be fine besides some lockups and bad scrolling..
Some of the symptoms might be unrelated. I know that some of the space calculations are cached and the only truly accurate space calculation is after a soft reset for some reason. I think it's lazy and bad practice to cache free space calculations but based on a number of posts here and at XDA this is the case. Are you using a task killer?

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Noticed a similar drop in available space too. Mine is much less severe, but confusing none the less. I usually have between 38-60 Mb showing, but yesterday I powered off my phone and on restart I had 88...more than ever had. Throughout the day I noticed that drop back into the 60's.

I use Advanced Task Manager and constantly kill processes in the list, but I've noticed that using the same apps and killing them yields a slightly different amount of free space each time. And I never set any default/ignore settings either.

It definitely seems there's a leak somewhere.
The first thing you saw was due to what I mentioned above with the space calculations not being updated in real time and requiring a soft reset. However I suspect that using task killers may be part of the problems that are being seen. If you kill a task that's writing to the disk it could be marking sectors as used without data being committed and therefore the application restarts after a reboot it didn't finish the write, doesn't know about the data, but the OS is seeing the sectors as used. Force Killing applications that are not out of control is always a bad idea on a multi-tasking OS like Linux (Android), BSD, and other Unix based OSs. That's only one of the problems with using task killers on a regular basis.

One of the other problems you will have with using a task killer in the way you describe is losing the ability to receive messages, sync contacts, and generally screwing up the way your phone is supposed to work. There is a reason that a task manager is not included with the OS.
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Old October 24th, 2009, 02:30 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Sabre66 I believe what you are describing is RAM usage and perfectly normal. Difference between ROM and ROM is RAM is filled with programs and information currently in use in the background and foreground. Therefore throughout the day your memory will go down as you open more programs and data and keep it active. The system should maintain that number at a usable level so 30mb of free RAM is normal. When you kill a program or restart your phone if frees up RAM because it is not active in the background. Now ROM is the area where you store your programs, think of it as a hard drive. This should not change significantly throughout the day unless you add more programs or receive an extreme number of emails into your ROM. To check your available ROM memory go to Settings > SD Card and Phone Storage and it will be listed under "available space".


My ROM memory went from 53mb to 31mb this morning. Without adding anything. I will be doing a hard reste on the phone and running stock for a day or two to see if that helps. Then I will install Programs slowly to try and isolate if one of the apps is the issue.
A lot of apps cache data that you don't see such as your location, weather, and so on. It's normal to see a drop in space that is recovered with a soft reset as apps will constantly cache data so that they perform faster. While caching 20mb of data seems like a lot when you consider all the data that comes into your phone it really isn't.

I would use a clean Sense setup without any widgets anywhere except on the main screen and have those be minimal, soft reset, look at the free space on the ROM, and add stuff back from there and see what the results are.
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Old October 24th, 2009, 02:34 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Wow, I guess I really need to read up on Linux based systems. I'm obviously a newbie to Android. Thanks for such great info. I'm gonna try not using the task killer for a few days and see how performance is affected.

Here's another question. How often do you guys power down your Heroes? I'm so used to always leaving my phone on and never turning it off, so I'm wondering if that's detrimental to a Linux based device.
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Old October 24th, 2009, 02:47 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Wow, I guess I really need to read up on Linux based systems. I'm obviously a newbie to Android. Thanks for such great info. I'm gonna try not using the task killer for a few days and see how performance is affected.

Here's another question. How often do you guys power down your Heroes? I'm so used to always leaving my phone on and never turning it off, so I'm wondering if that's detrimental to a Linux based device.
It's not detrimental to Linux devices in general. My phone has been off once this week because I let the battery run all the way down at work while using WiFi and not thinking about it. Cached data may look like an issue, and while I haven't looked deeply into it, I suspect the cache is setup to use X% of open disk space so as the available disk space shrinks so does the cache. I have a Linux server with over a year of uptime and while totally off topic KSplice will allow years of uptime because a reboot isn't needed for kernel upgrades any more. I suspect that a phone, Linux or not, will need rebooting every once in a while but mine currently has: 30:41:25 uptime and is running fine. My awake time sucks because I have it set not to sleep while on power and was home all day yesterday but it's been running for over a day without any issues. With my TP I started my day by silencing my alarms and rebooting the phone. So far this hasn't been necessary with the Hero.
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Old October 24th, 2009, 03:17 PM   #26 (permalink)
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A lot of apps cache data that you don't see such as your location, weather, and so on. It's normal to see a drop in space that is recovered with a soft reset as apps will constantly cache data so that they perform faster. While caching 20mb of data seems like a lot when you consider all the data that comes into your phone it really isn't.

I would use a clean Sense setup without any widgets anywhere except on the main screen and have those be minimal, soft reset, look at the free space on the ROM, and add stuff back from there and see what the results are.
True to some extent. However I have gone through all the applications info in the manage applications settings to see the cache and data each app was using. The highest one was 3mb which was my email storage. The Next highest was 2mb for browser, 1mb for calendar, 15kb for Twitter and 12kb for sms messages. None of the applications I downloaded use that much cache and they use the sd card for data storage. There just was not enough cache to account for the memory dropping 50+ megabytes and when added up it did not equal the amount of ROM memory that was actually being used. I have done a hard reset and will keep things stock for a couple of days. Hopefully the issue is a rouge app from the app store eating up the ROM.

Also this is about the ROM not RAM so a soft reset will not restore ROM memory. It has to be deleted by the application such as Gmail automatically deleting emails or you manually have to delete it.
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Old October 25th, 2009, 01:11 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Also this is about the ROM not RAM so a soft reset will not restore ROM memory. It has to be deleted by the application such as Gmail automatically deleting emails or you manually have to delete it.
At some point the Hero apparently caches the data about free ROM space. So it the soft reset doesn't clear the space, that's already done, it just reports the space correctly after a soft reset. It's why you sometimes won't see the freed ROM space after deleting an app but it shows up after a soft reset. I don't know when it caches this but I have seen the behavior and can verify it does happen. I am still looking into when/why/how for this behavior.
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Old October 25th, 2009, 12:54 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by romeosidvicious View Post
Some of the symptoms might be unrelated. I know that some of the space calculations are cached and the only truly accurate space calculation is after a soft reset for some reason. I think it's lazy and bad practice to cache free space calculations but based on a number of posts here and at XDA this is the case. Are you using a task killer?


The first thing you saw was due to what I mentioned above with the space calculations not being updated in real time and requiring a soft reset. However I suspect that using task killers may be part of the problems that are being seen. If you kill a task that's writing to the disk it could be marking sectors as used without data being committed and therefore the application restarts after a reboot it didn't finish the write, doesn't know about the data, but the OS is seeing the sectors as used. Force Killing applications that are not out of control is always a bad idea on a multi-tasking OS like Linux (Android), BSD, and other Unix based OSs. That's only one of the problems with using task killers on a regular basis.

One of the other problems you will have with using a task killer in the way you describe is losing the ability to receive messages, sync contacts, and generally screwing up the way your phone is supposed to work. There is a reason that a task manager is not included with the OS.

I was using Automatic Task Killer and Task Manager..

Got behind on the thread but heres what happened, I did a factory reset on the phone and still wasnt receiving any texts or voicemails though I obviously gained the space back and tested installing/deleteing and was properly losing/gaining space again.

I returned it to best buy and got another one no problem, ive only installed Handcent and Advanced Task Killer so far. However on this phone when I try to landscape Handcent it closes out and the browser gets hung up loading a LOT. Soft resets and reinstalls have not fixed this issue..

getting pretty fed up at this point.
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Old October 25th, 2009, 01:15 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by laramieb View Post
I was using Automatic Task Killer and Task Manager..

Got behind on the thread but heres what happened, I did a factory reset on the phone and still wasnt receiving any texts or voicemails though I obviously gained the space back and tested installing/deleteing and was properly losing/gaining space again.

I returned it to best buy and got another one no problem, ive only installed Handcent and Advanced Task Killer so far. However on this phone when I try to landscape Handcent it closes out and the browser gets hung up loading a LOT. Soft resets and reinstalls have not fixed this issue..

getting pretty fed up at this point.
I hear ya! Between Sprint's required lockdowns and the issues with the stock messaging app and bad decisions on the part of HTC the Hero isn't everything I expected it to be. The rate of returns to get a "good" device is a little disturbing. It feels like HTC's usually good quality control isn't present with the Hero. I got a what appears to be a good one on my first shot so I have been happy with my device. However with the HTC decisions and the fact I am a tinkering geek I am probably going to take advantage of the 30 day return policy and pick up a Moment on the 1st and see if Samsung did a better job with their device. I have used HTC devices since the Sprint Mogul and traded in my TP for this one. I do like it and if it was top of the line hardware I would stick it out for an update to 1.6 or 2.0 Android to be completely honest. It's not the top of the line hardware so while I am satisfied with the phone overall I think I will be trading mine in for a Moment because I can live without Sense. Heck I am only using three panels on any given scene anyway.

My suggestion would be to keep returning until you get a good device or stick it out until the 1st of Nov and get the Moment. Most of the problems we are seeing are due to HTC's decisions and some of Sprint's as well. While the Moment will have some of Sprint's wackiness it is a lot closer to vanilla Android and I suspect many of the issues will not be present without HTC's modifications.

All that said it's still a while until the 1st and I may keep the Hero. I know for sure I won't be leaving Android.
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Old October 26th, 2009, 12:48 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by romeosidvicious View Post
At some point the Hero apparently caches the data about free ROM space. So it the soft reset doesn't clear the space, that's already done, it just reports the space correctly after a soft reset. It's why you sometimes won't see the freed ROM space after deleting an app but it shows up after a soft reset. I don't know when it caches this but I have seen the behavior and can verify it does happen. I am still looking into when/why/how for this behavior.
While what you describe is normal, I am experiencing something quite different. There is some caching of data being exhibited but it is not being released at least not by some/one applications. Even then it might not be cache but a leak, the amount of data being drawn from my phone cannot be accounted for with anything that I am doing. There is no application that should be caching 20-80mb of data to the point of the phone completely becoming unresponsive and being unable to take a picture or receive an sms for that matter.

Since my hard reset I have only added my gmail account, my mail account, my social networking sites. I have also loaded Pandora, ChompSMS, and Facebook apps. The following is the behavior the phone exhibited:


Day 1:
After Hard Reset: 138mb Free
Adding Gmail Account: 136mb Free
Changing Wallpapers: 135mb Free
Adding Social Networking Sites: 133 mb Free
Day 2:
Adding Facebook, Pandora, ChompSMS: 128 MB Free
Adding AIM mail account on Mail App: 126MB Free
Later that Night: 120 MB Free
Morning: 114MB Free
Turned Phone Off and On: 108mb Free

Seems like after adding a mail account my phone has rapidly bee using memory. The account is 5kb(text only) and I have a total of 15 emails so it should not take up this much memory. It is reported in Applications as using 1.9MB of Data and 0 KB of cache. Something has definitely gone bonkers. I will continue to monitor this behavior for another day or two. Then I will do another hard reset and begin with only adding a mail account.
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Old October 26th, 2009, 02:36 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Ok, it seems that HTC has confirmed that the inablilty to receive sms/voicemail some people are having is related to the phone getting critically low on memory. This issue goes really well with the problem some of us are having with the ROM leaking memory. Just great!!!

SMS ISSUES!! (HTC Is Working On A Fix!) - SprintUsers.com

Issue Title:
HTC Hero (A6277) - Unable to receive SMS, cannot be resolved via Hard Reset

Posted Date:
10/26/2009

Issue Type:
Known Issue



Description:

An issue has been identified where the Hero by HTC may enter a state where the device is unable to receive SMS and cannot be resolved thru standard troubleshooting up to and including a Hard Reset, ##786, and software reflash.



Action: Policy Exchange

When the device runs out of available memory a system flag is set indicating that there is no memory available to receive incoming messages. The device requests a retry, and the network will continue resending for 72 hours. Currently there is no field accessible method available to bring a device out of this state, however HTC is working to develop both a short and long term solution that will be communicated when available.



The best method of prevention currently is to ensure adequate memory is available on the device to prevent the flag from being set.



If the this issue is encountered, follow the steps below:

Back up all customer data from the device.
Power the device off.
Hold the Home and Back buttons then press the End/Power button.
Follow the on screen prompt to clear all user data.
One the reset is complete, test the ability for the device to receive SMS. This can be done by sending a test message then confirming it has been received via the SMS network tool (Intercarrier/Metcalf/ICSMS).
If the issue persists, exchange the device and return the unit via the EFFA process until this article is updated with a solution.
We are investigating an additional issue that may cause devices to intermittantly receive an SMS but not display the message to the user. This issue is distinguished from the above in that it is resolved by a soft or hard reset. No exchange is neccesary for the intermittant unable to receive SMS issue, we will post an additional KI when a solution is available.
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Old October 26th, 2009, 03:51 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Thanks for the update, elguapo76. I'm taking they're referring to ROM storage where apps are stored and not RAM, where currently running apps reside?

Guess that means we just need to be careful how many apps we're installing. Lately I've been going back and deleting apps I thought sounded cool, but I haven't touched for several days. Been hovering right around 75-80MB free consistently. Someone on IRC said they talked with HTC support and that when you get down to about 40MB free is when this issue starts cropping up.
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Old October 26th, 2009, 06:51 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Having more and different problems now..

After returning the first one because of the SMS issue ive now got the second with two apps ( Task Killer and Handcent for battery life work around ) about 8 contacts and some emails.. I have been to busy to load all my stuff back on or even change any of my screens all I have is the home with a few icons lol.

Im getting serious lag time while doing basically anything..it takes up to 8 seconds to load up the phone app start a call end a call anything..my lock screen lags..my notifications shade lags..my browser gets hung up constantly and landscaping handcent causes it to crash.

Time for round 3?
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Old October 26th, 2009, 07:03 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Also, im assuming that if I return the hero to try out the Moment when it releases that my 30day will not be extended? I like the Hero a lot and im not really into the look of the Moment or stock android OS..if I cant get a good hero though then Ill want to end my sprint contract and go back to blackberry on another carrier.
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Old October 26th, 2009, 07:54 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by laramieb View Post
Having more and different problems now..

After returning the first one because of the SMS issue ive now got the second with two apps ( Task Killer and Handcent for battery life work around ) about 8 contacts and some emails.. I have been to busy to load all my stuff back on or even change any of my screens all I have is the home with a few icons lol.

Im getting serious lag time while doing basically anything..it takes up to 8 seconds to load up the phone app start a call end a call anything..my lock screen lags..my notifications shade lags..my browser gets hung up constantly and landscaping handcent causes it to crash.

Time for round 3?
I don't have many issues with lag time. If anything it has been relatively snappy. I do have a lag when going to landscape but it is 1 or 2 seconds. You might try doing a hard reset on it to see if that clears up your lag issue. I am in the same boat as you. I love the Sense UI and can live with some of it's shortcomings as far as missing features as compared to the iphone but there are some dealbreakers that if not worked out will leave me looking and moving to Verizon and the Moto Droid. I've been with Sprint a long time and prefer to remain with them because they have treated me relatively well.


I would call Best Buy and ask to talk to a manager about your issues with the phone to see what they can do for you as far as trying the moment and being able to come back to the hero or going with blackberry if you don't like it.
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Old October 27th, 2009, 12:54 PM   #36 (permalink)
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I got tired of running out of storage space (between 5-15MB) and getting notifications, so I factory reset my Hero. Most of my important stuff like Contacts and Calendar is synced to my Google account anyway and I backed up a few applications using Astro before taking the plunge. I figured it would be a good idea this time to trace how the storage space is affected by installing apps and using the device.

On restart I skipped the mail and social networking set up, and checked the memory right of the bat...
142 MB

Removed all the preinstalled widgets except for those on the home screen (page 0).
Associated Hero to my Google account; Sync settings: Calendar and Contacts ON, Gmail OFF
141 MB

Changed screen timeout; removed default mail icon from page 0 (I use K9 mail).
Open Voicemail and upgrade, change security settings to allow, run Voicemail upgrade again.
Listen and delete "welcome" voicemail.
141 MB

Associate Hero to my Facebook account; open People app and verify it is synchronizing.
139 MB

Add Google search widget to page -1.
Do a Google search and open Browser to results.
137 MB

Download K9 mail Beta 1.106 and install; clear and delete K9 .apk from download list.
Notification from Market; 8 updates found; open Market; browse updates (no installs); close Market.
135 MB

Set up primary email in K9; set options; delete 25 messages that it downloads by default.
135 MB

Set up secondary email in K9; set options; delete 25 messages.
134 MB

Open Market; install Astro.
133 MB

Open Astro; restore/install Beyond Pod and purchase key.
131 MB

Add Calendar widget to page 0.
Add widgets to page -1; WiFi, GPS, Bluetooth, Networking.
131 MB

Restore/install Astrid; sync to Remember the Milk.
130 MB

Since that point I've been listening to podcasts but I am at 130 MB and holding, it's only been a couple hours...

What I've installed so far accounts for probably 85% of my activity on the Hero anyway so I am going to avoid installing any additional apps and just monitor the storage space for the next few days of normal use. I have about 115 MB over what I had before resetting, but have about 10 fewer apps installed. If I hold close to my 130 MB "baseline", I'll slowly start adding other apps looking for anything that starts chewing up storage.
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Old October 27th, 2009, 01:32 PM   #37 (permalink)
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I have discovered a ROM Leak and posted a new thread and video on it. It is associated with bluetooth usage and may lead to the fatal SMS/Voicemail issue some people have run into:

http://androidforums.com/sprint-htc-hero/12777-serious-rom-leak-documented-video-may-cause-fatal-sms-issue.html
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Old October 27th, 2009, 02:06 PM   #38 (permalink)
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I have been having the same Bluetooth connection problems. This weekend I just gave up and bought earbuds. Thanks, I'll avoid Bluetooth connections as well while monitoring ROM usage.
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Old October 27th, 2009, 02:35 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Mine is sitting right around 105mb free, with a decent amount of apps installed. I will have to keep an eye on it, since this is the first I have heard about any kind of memory leak.
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Old October 27th, 2009, 07:32 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Nice catch elguapo, but just as a heads up this isnt just happening with bluetooth as I have never turned it on on my device.

My first device I didnt have any of the lag im talking about, it ran almost flawlessly until my low space/sms problem and thats why im so confused about whats happening now. I did try a hard reset and it fixed nothing, I also tried to use my camera tonight and it has horrible lag also..guess im going to return again and see what happens.
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Old October 27th, 2009, 08:37 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by romeosidvicious View Post
...If you kill a task that's writing to the disk it could be marking sectors as used without data being committed and therefore the application restarts after a reboot it didn't finish the write, doesn't know about the data, but the OS is seeing the sectors as used. Force Killing applications that are not out of control is always a bad idea on a multi-tasking OS like Linux (Android), BSD, and other Unix based OSs. That's only one of the problems with using task killers on a regular basis.

One of the other problems you will have with using a task killer in the way you describe is losing the ability to receive messages, sync contacts, and generally screwing up the way your phone is supposed to work. There is a reason that a task manager is not included with the OS.

@romeosidvicious:

So what's your take on using task killers? How often (if ever) do you manually kill an app and what normally prompts you to take action? I'm considering wiping my hero clean and starting from scratch without any killers... I think it's so easy to constantly search for things to kill and I don't want to make that a habit.
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Old October 28th, 2009, 08:25 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Romeosidviscous,
Ok i was thinking about the Hero and Linux and the problems that seem to be arising from loss of memory/space. I can understand your point above, but I'm confused by how using a "task killer" would affect the system negatively. I may be confusing the role of a "task killer", but my understanding of them was to close apps completely after use. Is this incorrect? If so, how do you completely close a program after opening it?

Some say backing out of a program using the "back button" closes them, however, it seems to me that any program you open (regardless of backing out of it) still shows up on the task list and affects available memory. There lies my confusion.

Since I only use things like the calculator, Navigation, weather, fun apps, etc less than 2-3 times a week i really don't want them open all the time and taking up space. So would killing them via a "task killer" be bad for my Hero?

Also where do you check how much ROM/RAM available? Under settings and SD/Phone Storage it shows i have only 96MB available on the phone (which i beleive is ROM). That seems VERY low since i only have like 15 apps installed. On the Advance Task Killer it shows between 28Mb and 50Mb depending on what programs i opened (which i believe is RAM).
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Old October 28th, 2009, 09:29 AM   #43 (permalink)
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Romeosidviscous,
Also where do you check how much ROM/RAM available? Under settings and SD/Phone Storage it shows i have only 96MB available on the phone (which i beleive is ROM). That seems VERY low since i only have like 15 apps installed. On the Advance Task Killer it shows between 28Mb and 50Mb depending on what programs i opened (which i believe is RAM).

Your RAM memory will differ from your ROM (storage memory). 96mb seems about right for 15 apps. Also consider your email data and web browser program cache are stored on your ROM space.
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Old October 28th, 2009, 09:34 AM   #44 (permalink)
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Nice catch elguapo, but just as a heads up this isnt just happening with bluetooth as I have never turned it on on my device.

My first device I didnt have any of the lag im talking about, it ran almost flawlessly until my low space/sms problem and thats why im so confused about whats happening now. I did try a hard reset and it fixed nothing, I also tried to use my camera tonight and it has horrible lag also..guess im going to return again and see what happens.
It's possible something else is causing a drain. Maybe a setting hanging somewhere similar to the way it happens with bluetooth. I'm not using bluetooth for now, and I will try to isolate any other issues. Seems like we are beta testing for HTC. Not sure that it matters if HTC doesn't get their butts in gear and actually take the time to solve them though. I believe battery drain/sms issue has been around since they introduced the European Hero.
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Old October 31st, 2009, 08:37 PM   #45 (permalink)
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@romeosidvicious:

So what's your take on using task killers? How often (if ever) do you manually kill an app and what normally prompts you to take action? I'm considering wiping my hero clean and starting from scratch without any killers... I think it's so easy to constantly search for things to kill and I don't want to make that a habit.
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Romeosidviscous,
Ok i was thinking about the Hero and Linux and the problems that seem to be arising from loss of memory/space. I can understand your point above, but I'm confused by how using a "task killer" would affect the system negatively. I may be confusing the role of a "task killer", but my understanding of them was to close apps completely after use. Is this incorrect? If so, how do you completely close a program after opening it?

Some say backing out of a program using the "back button" closes them, however, it seems to me that any program you open (regardless of backing out of it) still shows up on the task list and affects available memory. There lies my confusion.

Since I only use things like the calculator, Navigation, weather, fun apps, etc less than 2-3 times a week i really don't want them open all the time and taking up space. So would killing them via a "task killer" be bad for my Hero?

Also where do you check how much ROM/RAM available? Under settings and SD/Phone Storage it shows i have only 96MB available on the phone (which i beleive is ROM). That seems VERY low since i only have like 15 apps installed. On the Advance Task Killer it shows between 28Mb and 50Mb depending on what programs i opened (which i believe is RAM).
http://androidforums.com/sprint-htc-hero/12195-properly-close-app.html#post71111

In that post I explain why the regular use of a task manager is not necessary. Feel free to pop in there and ask any questions including how one might cause adverse issues with your phone. Sorry it took so long to reply I have been sick and work's been a real bitch this week. I don't want to hijack this thread, about a real issue than confounds me to be honest, talking about memory management.
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Old November 5th, 2009, 07:42 AM   #46 (permalink)
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I have discovered a ROM Leak and posted a new thread and video on it. It is associated with bluetooth usage and may lead to the fatal SMS/Voicemail issue some people have run into:

http://androidforums.com/sprint-htc-hero/12777-serious-rom-leak-documented-video-may-cause-fatal-sms-issue.html

I too was watching my Hero's bluetooth sporadically succeed, and even then continue to tell me it was connecting. Last night I went from roughly 28mb, firing up Bluetooth, not getting results so bouncing around the on/off, scan for devices, headset on/off until it finally made the connection. However, by the time it did, I had been reduced down to 8 mb. This was at the end of a day which started me out at roughly 80mb. When I got home, I looked through my three apps plus factory apps and even after clearing caches and everything I could find I managed to only go back to 10mb. I eventually did a hard reset, and am now afraid and thus won't try to use bluetooth.

I want to point out that it drives me nuts that I can't diagnose the culprit just by using the phone's utilities. Even after turning the phone off and back on, the disk space was still gone.

@romeosidvicious
Do you know if HTC plans to include this issue in the fantasy update their working on? I'm weighing rooting the phone just to get around this problem as I'm now in a state of not wanting to use my phone for fear it will start hiding it's memory on me again.
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Old November 20th, 2009, 07:58 PM   #47 (permalink)
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I got this dreaded low memory thing today! Here is how I fixed it. Bluetooth totally is causing my problem. The bluetooth application is writing core dumps of the system's memory in /data/btips every time it crashes. Perhaps you users are being impolite with it perhaps killing it or maybe it's just having a bad day. I am not going to judge you... Anyway, I used the Android SDK and grabed a shell using adb. I cd'ed in to /data/btips . From there I just rm core.* . It was like for every failure of the bluetooth a core was born. Clearly you are at your own risk listening to me. I bet ConnectBot can give you access to do this from the phone. I mean you have to be able to install it for that to work, but I already had it installed.
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Old November 20th, 2009, 08:10 PM   #48 (permalink)
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I got this dreaded low memory thing today! Here is how I fixed it. Bluetooth totally is causing my problem. The bluetooth application is writing core dumps of the system's memory in /data/btips every time it crashes. Perhaps you users are being impolite with it perhaps killing it or maybe it's just having a bad day. I am not going to judge you... Anyway, I used the Android SDK and grabed a shell using adb. I cd'ed in to /data/btips . From there I just rm core.* . It was like for every failure of the bluetooth a core was born. Clearly you are at your own risk listening to me. I bet ConnectBot can give you access to do this from the phone. I mean you have to be able to install it for that to work, but I already had it installed.
This has been fixed in the update just released
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Old November 20th, 2009, 08:35 PM   #49 (permalink)
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well as a qa person I hate when I wind up taking on variables in a situation, but I've done that to myself with my phone + motorolo rokr headphones/phone bluetooth...

When I got down below 8mb, I wound up taking my phone into sprint to get it changed out. I hadn't received a text in forever, which I didn't really care about, but I knew they would be more eager to flip my phone if I raised that well-known issue than if I came in complaining about the bluetooth monster. Once I got the replacement piece, I did take care to be VERY patient with the BT on/off. Before, if I didn't get a connection very quickly I would wind up popping the bt on, off over and over. Since the phone flip, I've been planning ahead, turning on the BT a couple minutes before I planned on putting on the headphones, and just leaving it to it's own speed instead of impatiently cutting up the process. Since then I haven't noticed massive drops in my memory.

ALSO, I have noticed that since last night's update it connects much quicker. Granted, since I still am going on the slow pace I'm not really timing it for speed... but it does seem to get there on it's own much quicker. So, for me, the update seems to of improved BT greatly.
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Old January 4th, 2011, 07:57 AM   #50 (permalink)
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Sad Low Memory Alert on HTC Hero

I struggled with this thinking my 8GB SD Card was full. So I spent $75 on a 32GB card. I still got the alert, frustrated, I stopped in to ask what the problem was from my Intelos Dealer and tech friend.

Not at all what I expected, seems the apps are all stored internal on the Hero so even though there are thousands of apps you can only download until you get the low memory alert.

The fix, delete unused apps.

The solution, install operating system 2.2 when is becomes available it moves apps to the SD Card and off of internal memory.

My recommendation, don't buy a Hero until it has version 2.2.

Overall, I love this phone.
erau81flyboy is offline  
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