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New Android Wear, House and Home & Automotive forums!
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View Poll Results: Subforums vs. Prefixes vs. Neither (Please Read below First!)
(1) Leave the "Accessories", "Tips and Tricks", and "Support and Troubleshooting" sub-forums as is. 104 48.37%
(2) Remove all sub-forums but "All Things Root", require sortable prefixes in both. 71 33.02%
(3) Remove the 3 sub-forums, leaving "All Things Root", do not add prefixes. 20 9.30%
Doesn't matter to me. 20 9.30%
Voters: 215. You may not vote on this poll

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Old December 9th, 2010, 10:44 AM   #101 (permalink)
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I say get rid of 'em all and have no prefixes. Look how much confusion is already there for new posters, when I joined I created 2 or 3 threads about various things related to my Fascinate in the main forum. Wait, you mean to find out a particular thing about this phone (when there is already a forum for it) I have to choose the correct sub-section?

If you have a question about the best case for your particular phone, you're already in a sub-forum forum based soley focusing on that phone, why make it even more complicated?
New members need to see a page during registration which briefly, but in bold, points out the device sub-forums for them, along with the user guidelines.

99% of the opposition to those sub-forums seems to revolve around either the work it takes to keep them organized or the confusion of our new members.

Confusion on any issue vanishes with education, along with true maintenance ("enforcement" for some; I do not like that word very much). That maintenance is the least we, as staffers, can do for you here at Android Forums.

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Old December 9th, 2010, 11:33 AM   #102 (permalink)
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I do not want to "quote" the entire post, but Woop makes some excellent points in his post (#17) above.

My only area of disagreement would be that I believe a Tips and Tricks section that is actually populated with T&T remains valuable long after the phone comes out.

A device will always have people that are new to it and speaking for myself, even veterans seek out T&T long after they have purchased the device when they simply want to try something new. I believe that the date of the last post is not as big a deterrent as some would think.

That said, I tend to lean more toward #2!

At the end of the day, we are about as diplomatic a forum as I have seen and the more diplomatic a forum (posting rules) the more structure and organization it needs. And if that organization and structure requires a few more clicks then I am all for it.


Roze makes a great point (as always) that the T&T sections should be judged on views, not comments! Once something is deemed as a tip or trick, do we really expect hundreds or even dozens of comments? Does it have to be an ongoing discussion to be viable?
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Old December 9th, 2010, 12:01 PM   #103 (permalink)
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And what do you mean by 'show all the stickys'
.. I meant if you were to go to page 2, or 3, or whatever in a particular forum - the sticky threads you see on page 1 would still be displaying at the top.

... going to leave this open a bit more, I'd like this round table..
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Old December 9th, 2010, 12:27 PM   #104 (permalink)
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.. I meant if you were to go to page 2, or 3, or whatever in a particular forum - the sticky threads you see on page 1 would still be displaying at the top.

... going to leave this open a bit more, I'd like this round table..
Excellent Idea!

Sticky the Sticky's, kind of like doing a "Window Split/Window Freeze" in Excel except it would not "freeze" the Sticky's for scrolling but page to page.
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Old December 9th, 2010, 03:05 PM   #105 (permalink)
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Excellent Idea!

Sticky the Sticky's, kind of like doing a "Window Split/Window Freeze" in Excel except it would not "freeze" the Sticky's for scrolling but page to page.
Exactly. This way members can not read them on any page they go to.


















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Old December 9th, 2010, 03:55 PM   #106 (permalink)
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I see fewer and fewer posts/threads of support having to be moved, now that the idea is soaking in. No, not a "few," per se, but fewer this week than two weeks ago, for sure, especially in Captivate, Fascinate and the Droids.
I guess you don't visit the Incredible forum much then, because there is still the same amount of support threads being moved (or maybe you notice fewer because the redirect times have been lessen)
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Old December 9th, 2010, 04:26 PM   #107 (permalink)
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I guess you don't visit the Incredible forum much then, because there is still the same amount of support threads being moved (or maybe you notice fewer because the redirect times have been lessen)
I haven't visited the Incredible forums, you're right. I have fifteen device forums on my list, and they keep me busy, along with the many other non-device forums we all visit and maintain.

And I have noticed that the thread movement in the forums I mentioned have been a bit fewer.. believe me, the length of the redirects don't affect that assessment, as I'm in several device forums long enough during the day to have a feel for what is going on.

But even if there were no change in the number of threads moved from one area to another, that to me is not a reason to toss the sub-forums; it's a reason to have a staff with the same goals about maintaining the place.
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Old December 10th, 2010, 02:35 AM   #108 (permalink)
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I haven't visited the Incredible forums, you're right. I have fifteen device forums on my list, and they keep me busy, along with the many other non-device forums we all visit and maintain.

And I have noticed that the thread movement in the forums I mentioned have been a bit fewer.. believe me, the length of the redirects don't affect that assessment, as I'm in several device forums long enough during the day to have a feel for what is going on.

But even if there were no change in the number of threads moved from one area to another, that to me is not a reason to toss the sub-forums; it's a reason to have a staff with the same goals about maintaining the place.
The Incredible forum has about the same amount of work as 10 less active forums. Trust me, we move alot of threads in that forum still (even with the phone being out for almost a year). So unless you are hitting all the high traffic forums, its hard to really judge whether threads are finally being created in the correct place or not (I go through about 40 forums on here - both high and low traffic). And no one is using that as the reason to ditch subforums - as Kelmar stated earlier, its to make this forum run more efficient. If theres a better way to handle something, why not do it? Having tons of threads in the wrong place, which then get moved anyways creating a hot mess of redirects everywhere, and having members essentially ignore subforums is not efficient (many times its regulars that have been on here for quite some time so obviously it isn't by "accident"). That brings me to what I've still been saying as the most efficient, easiest (for both staff and member alike) format for all: Merge support into the main forum. If people are going to disregard that subforum then to create less confusion and "ugliness" with redirects filling a forum, we can address the main issue here. I want to emphasize that almost ALL (if not all) the threads complaining about threads being moved were people who created a support thread that got moved.
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Old December 10th, 2010, 05:12 AM   #109 (permalink)
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Again, I think our disagreement is about all of those threads having to be moved and PMs from some members complaining about their threads being moved; I feel that will go down over time.

We don't have numbers, yet, on how many threads per day by how many members are being moved, creating those redirects, but we do have this:

Threads: 198,957, Posts: 1,945,567, Members: 349,597, Active Members: 55,512 (as of about 5 am Central U.S. time, 10 Dec 2010).

Fifty-five thousand active members. Wow. Nearly two million posts. Double-Wow. Nearly two-hundred thousand threads. Wow City!

What we're moving around is tiny compared to the volume of activity in this place, it appears.

Once again, I find it preferable that we as staff here just do our job in the place as it is, and watch as it changes a bit over time to a lot less thread moving.

Whoever came up with the sub-forum idea came up with that for good reason and with a bit of a sense as to how that schema becomes optimum over time and with a diligent staff, I'm thinking. Thus the sudden influx of many more Guides and more Moderators.

I've aired my views on this (like a few here, several times ) as clearly as I can, and I know we all understand one another. With that in mind I'll say, again, that no matter what is implemented here, whether there are changes or not, I'm just another little cog in the machine happy to be a part of it and happy to accept what changes that may come about as the best.
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Old December 10th, 2010, 09:43 AM   #110 (permalink)
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I'm a little late to this particular party, but here are my thoughts.

#1 - What we have now and some people love it, others hate it and many don't care. It works and it does keep things organized, but as others have said people don't always see when someone needs help and some just aren't willing to visit the sub-forums. Many forums also contain digital agoraphobics that aren't willing to venture outside their phone forum and some of those still aren't willing to venture into the sub-forums. So we have threads that go unnoticed and unanswered in sub-forums.

#2 - Has real potential in either direction. It could solve the overlooked thread problem along with keeping the forum organized too. As stated Root would have to continue being a sub-forum and the prefix tags in that area should really be implemented regardless. The nice thing, IMHO, about option #2 is that unless someone just made a colossal error then the thread won't actually be moved, it will just have the prefix changed. No big deal at that point really.

#3 - This is the way the Eris forum was for almost a year. The forum was functional and you could read it, kind of, but threads did get lost fairly quickly.

Personally, I voted for option #2. It is a good combination of #1 and #3 if your really think about it. After being in the Eris forum for close to a year and not having any sub-forums for the majority of that time I think I prefer a set up where most of the threads appear in the general part of the forum. While it can be a little harder to deal with from a mod stand point, it lends to a much better user experience overall. Being able to see all the discussions that are currently happening in one centralized place leads people to join in on those discussions a little more often. I think that is good for a phone forum and good for the site overall.
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Old December 10th, 2010, 09:59 AM   #111 (permalink)
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Thanks for checking in on this, OTD. I've been waiting for your opinion about it.
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Old December 10th, 2010, 04:42 PM   #112 (permalink)
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I'm a little late to this particular party, but here are my thoughts.

#1 - What we have now and some people love it, others hate it and many don't care. It works and it does keep things organized, but as others have said people don't always see when someone needs help and some just aren't willing to visit the sub-forums. Many forums also contain digital agoraphobics that aren't willing to venture outside their phone forum and some of those still aren't willing to venture into the sub-forums. So we have threads that go unnoticed and unanswered in sub-forums.

#2 - Has real potential in either direction. It could solve the overlooked thread problem along with keeping the forum organized too. As stated Root would have to continue being a sub-forum and the prefix tags in that area should really be implemented regardless. The nice thing, IMHO, about option #2 is that unless someone just made a colossal error then the thread won't actually be moved, it will just have the prefix changed. No big deal at that point really.

#3 - This is the way the Eris forum was for almost a year. The forum was functional and you could read it, kind of, but threads did get lost fairly quickly.

Personally, I voted for option #2. It is a good combination of #1 and #3 if your really think about it. After being in the Eris forum for close to a year and not having any sub-forums for the majority of that time I think I prefer a set up where most of the threads appear in the general part of the forum. While it can be a little harder to deal with from a mod stand point, it lends to a much better user experience overall. Being able to see all the discussions that are currently happening in one centralized place leads people to join in on those discussions a little more often. I think that is good for a phone forum and good for the site overall.
That's kind of how I see it.
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Old December 10th, 2010, 09:55 PM   #113 (permalink)
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Again, I think our disagreement is about all of those threads having to be moved and PMs from some members complaining about their threads being moved; I feel that will go down over time.

We don't have numbers, yet, on how many threads per day by how many members are being moved, creating those redirects, but we do have this:

Threads: 198,957, Posts: 1,945,567, Members: 349,597, Active Members: 55,512 (as of about 5 am Central U.S. time, 10 Dec 2010).

Fifty-five thousand active members. Wow. Nearly two million posts. Double-Wow. Nearly two-hundred thousand threads. Wow City!

What we're moving around is tiny compared to the volume of activity in this place, it appears.

Once again, I find it preferable that we as staff here just do our job in the place as it is, and watch as it changes a bit over time to a lot less thread moving.

Whoever came up with the sub-forum idea came up with that for good reason and with a bit of a sense as to how that schema becomes optimum over time and with a diligent staff, I'm thinking. Thus the sudden influx of many more Guides and more Moderators.

I've aired my views on this (like a few here, several times ) as clearly as I can, and I know we all understand one another. With that in mind I'll say, again, that no matter what is implemented here, whether there are changes or not, I'm just another little cog in the machine happy to be a part of it and happy to accept what changes that may come about as the best.
Well no, thats not the main disagreement. I think when you said that some people's reason for deleting the subforums is to make their own job easier was misled and inaccurate, in which case I was giving you scenarios as to why that is. Yes that may seem like a small percentage however, keep in mind if it wasn't a big deal, this discussion would not be brought up. Obviously there is enough concern about the moving of threads and how the structure of the forum is placed to hold a poll. Another thing to keep in mind is that although some people may (or may not) be finally utilizing the subforums, the member growth here is tremendous and with the huge numbers of new users (many of which won't use the subforums), they end up just replacing and repeating the cycle.

If you look at some of the forums, there are still many that don't have the subforum. Matter of fact, the Motorola Droid forum did not even have them to begin with, then Accessories/Root/Tips were added, and finally the Support. Although it definitely adds order and does the job, there can be more efficient ways of handling it as has been repeated. So yes, it may have been with good reason (barring the fact that many of the forums don't have subforums) but there is always room for improvement. With that said, #1 is fine if we decide to stick with it. We handled it when I was just a Guide back in the day with ALOT less staff members, so if we stay that way, it should be alright.
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Old December 11th, 2010, 06:23 AM   #114 (permalink)
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I think when you said that some people's reason for deleting the subforums is to make their own job easier was misled and inaccurate..
My insinuation/remark about making it easier is not a great way to put my point. As it is, I was referring to the OP's:

"..This is much easier on staff.." in the option #2 description, as well as the option #1, "it results in many users' threads being moved and adding to annoyance, as our staff finds threads that should be in sub-forums but aren't."

Those two quotes add up to (some of the) reasons for this vote, for this whole subject.

It is not some sort of value judgment on the working habits of the staff, but it can easily appear that way because I do keep repeating that the staff needs to accept the responsibility of option #1, no change basically, and just keep going at it.

It has the look of me saying the staff is not accepting that responsibility, which is false. I'm talking about the vote, not our great staff's work, just the vote.

Fwiw, and more to the point, we already have the Lounge, and an Android Lounge, for general talk about Android and of course chat about politics or whatever; I feel those are enough, as far as non-specific areas for general discussion goes.

It seems to me that we should not be talking about removing any sub-forums in the device areas at all, but should be talking about removing the generic, big catch-all forum in those areas, leaving only sub-forums.

If that were an option, we'd need only go through and move every thread to Android Lounge, the Lounge or the sub-forums, then remove the generic forum altogether, which would be great, and would solve a lot of the problems we're discussing in here about ongoing thread movement.
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Old December 11th, 2010, 07:16 AM   #115 (permalink)
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I moderate a very large chicken forum (backyardchickens.com) and can't imagine managing that community without subforums. Over 70,000 members now at this point, and I don't know how many million posts. Many members are very young, and the social games they play are a real PITA to manage, but we keep them confined to one section. It's just easier when you've got that many people posting to keep things broken up a bit.
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Old December 11th, 2010, 07:20 AM   #116 (permalink)
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I moderate a very large chicken forum (backyardchickens.com) and can't imagine managing that community without subforums. Over 70,000 members now at this point, and I don't know how many million posts. Many members are very young, and the social games they play are a real PITA to manage, but we keep them confined to one section. It's just easier when you've got that many people posting to keep things broken up a bit.
Is it still ok for us to eat chickens here?



Seriously, though, I see you have a similar group/members/staff system there as here:

Legend: [Admins] [Moderators] [GoldenFeatherMembers] [PlatinumPoultryMembers] [Members]
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Old December 11th, 2010, 12:14 PM   #117 (permalink)
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Is it still ok for us to eat chickens here?



Seriously, though, I see you have a similar group/members/staff system there as here:

Legend: [Admins] [Moderators] [GoldenFeatherMembers] [PlatinumPoultryMembers] [Members]
The GFMs and the PPMs are people who pay a premium, GFMs for image storage and more PM storage, PPMs get what the GFMs get (they pay more) and are usually people who sell a lot and get more advertising posts allotted - there's a lot of chicken and egg trading (and other Buy-Sell-Trade stuff) that goes on there. Neither one of those groups have any kind of moderation powers (trust me, we evaluate potential moderators there quite thoroughly, we need levelheadedness to prevail amongst our moderators, because those chicken folks can be very crazy! )

As for eating chicken, we have plenty of PETA people who get their knickers in a knot over the Meat Bird section

But we digress. As you saw, we do have things organized into subforums. We get many, many, many (did I say many) requests for new subforums, but the need is evaluated thoroughly - most are denied. It can get too fragmented. For the most part people respect the subforums, although we do our fair share of moving things around!
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Old December 11th, 2010, 01:08 PM   #118 (permalink)
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As for eating chicken, we have plenty of PETA people who get their knickers in a knot over the Meat Bird section
I'm surprised People Eating Tasty Animals would act that way, personally.

That said -

I've been following this closely, especially the Guides' opinions, as I think those guys do the heavy lifting when it comes to thread management (hats off and low bows, compadres). It always seems by the time I've started to move a thread, a Guide's beaten me to it - you cats are fast, efficient and do great work!

Frisco - would you clarify that post about the Lounge and sub-forums. I've read it several times, and I'm just foggy.
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Old December 11th, 2010, 02:58 PM   #119 (permalink)
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Frisco - would you clarify that post about the Lounge and sub-forums. I've read it several times, and I'm just foggy.
Ok. Thanks for asking!

The Lounge and the Android Lounge seem to cover all the frivolous, generic talk needed here, device specific or not.

We're always going to be moving device specific matter from those two areas to the device sub-forums. I'd like to see the generic device areas picked apart thread per thread, moving those threads to their proper device sub-forums, and then the generic areas removed (being empty after we do the thread moving ).

There would have to be a few more sub-forums, in addition to the Support, Accessories, Tricks and How Tos, Rooting.. perhaps Updates (Lord, if you do nothing else, will you please cause the Updates and Cupcakes forum to vanish ), etc.
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Old December 11th, 2010, 11:40 PM   #120 (permalink)
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Thread cleaned up - keep it polite everyone.
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Old December 12th, 2010, 01:14 AM   #121 (permalink)
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Thread cleaned up - keep it polite everyone.
I was gonna make a post in the mod forum about that response but thanks for doing that

Edit: Phases, any ETA on a decision? Doesn't really seem like an overwhelming majority for one option vs another.
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Old December 13th, 2010, 03:46 AM   #122 (permalink)
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Device sub-forum suggestions (envisioning this for each device, with no big, generic area for each phone/tablet at all, that being covered by Android Lounge and the Lounge and its sub-forums):

- All Things Root

- Accessories

- Support and Troubleshooting

- I have a Tip/Trick to Share

- Updates

Maybe the "Tips" sub-forum will have a lot less thread movement if the title is changed a bit to reflect that it's not for questions.

The device "Updates" sub-forums would, hopefully, be populated by threads which we new see in the "Updates and Cupcakes" forum out there, which would be emptied by us, taking the threads to the proper device areas.

With apologies for reiteration, plus for putting stuff out there that is not in the OP's options.
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Old December 13th, 2010, 06:50 AM   #123 (permalink)
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Hm, no posting in the general/main forum, only in subforums?
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Old December 13th, 2010, 07:32 AM   #124 (permalink)
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Hm, no posting in the general/main forum, only in subforums?
Not a fan of that idea at all, need a general area for the plenty of threads that are specific to device but don't fall into the standard sub forums. Also don't think more sub forums are the answer, seems like that may be over complicating things...
My $0.02
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Old December 13th, 2010, 08:07 AM   #125 (permalink)
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Hm, no posting in the general/main forum, only in subforums?
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Not a fan of that idea at all, need a general area for the plenty of threads that are specific to device but don't fall into the standard sub forums. Also don't think more sub forums are the answer, seems like that may be over complicating things...
My $0.02
I agree with NA on this completely. If you take away posting in the main forum there will need to be another 3 or 4 subforums to make up for that. It would also make things increasingly confusing for new forum members.
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Old December 13th, 2010, 09:52 AM   #126 (permalink)
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Hm, no posting in the general/main forum, only in subforums?
I'm thinking that what will happen, and what could be implemented, would be something like those device "lounge" threads, perhaps stickied, in the Android Lounge.

The ones we have are coming close to being mega-used, and I'm wondering (just throwing all of this out there) if sub-forums only in the true device areas would cause the "fun" and off-topic chatter to gravitate quickly to those device "lounge" sticky threads in Android Lounge (or the Lounge), leaving the questions and tips, talk about updates, etc, in the device sub-forums.
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Old December 13th, 2010, 10:06 AM   #127 (permalink)
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As long as site nav doesn't become unbearable.

As it is to go to Root from Support, it's not direct, for example.
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Old December 13th, 2010, 10:14 AM   #128 (permalink)
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I sure agree with that, EarlyMon.

The other day I was clicking around, looking in the "Droid Incredible Lounge" thread, which is in the Lounge, and I saw that very little true support stuff needed to be moved to support, etc sub-forums, unlike the generic area in Incredible.

It then occurred to me that if there is a recognized fun-zone for each device, in the Lounge or Android Lounge, we'd probably see more users posting their device queries where they belong, in the sub-forums.

It would take a bit of time, but as I look at the popularity of the device "lounge" threads which were moved out of the generic device areas, I began to think that we could be on to something good.
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Old December 14th, 2010, 02:42 AM   #129 (permalink)
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I agree with NA on this completely. If you take away posting in the main forum there will need to be another 3 or 4 subforums to make up for that. It would also make things increasingly confusing for new forum members.
Throw me on that bandwagon as well. There are alot of random things that don't belong in any subforum but are still generally related to the device. It'd get to the point where things would be TOO structured, and users would be completely confused as to where something may go - especially if it falls 2 subforums. Assuming this discussion of a possible new structure is stemming from the complaints of thread movement, and the confusion it entitles, I think we should be avoiding creating more subforums and go the opposite way.

I still think merging the Support/Troubleshoot forum is the best way to go, and dumping the Tips forum, so that those helpful tip threads are in the main forum right infront of the users (first thing they'll see). On the most busiest forums (i.e. Incredible), there is about a page of new threads a day (consistently), and about half of that gets moved into the Support subforum. And on average I'd say a thread gets created in the Tips forum every 2-3 weeks. So with that, there would still be a organized structure since the amount of threads being added on would be another half a page at most (and this would only be for the more active forums), and we'd still have separate discussions for accessories and root (which users seem to willingly create related threads in those particular subforums (just not the support one, for whatever reason). Efficient and simple are key here.
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Old December 14th, 2010, 06:22 AM   #130 (permalink)
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I remember back when Caddyman collected and amalgamated a bunch of tips threads in the Eris forum months ago.

Those threads came from one area, obviously, the generic Eris forum, because there were no sub-forums.

His work was stickied. Later sub-forums were developed. Meanwhile, I noticed that the threads used to put the sticky together were from as far back as the last page in the generic forum; good ideas tend to drift away once the few using them are done. Then those ideas/tips get light traffic but traffic from newbies directed there by helpers responding to their queries. The Tips sub-forums are resources, organized and right there for each device in a special place.

Sub-forums only have to be created once for each device; once they are there, it is up to us to populate them with their proper threads. Tossing them puts those threads in a big mess, but leaves the Guides and Mods with a lot less to do (which is a poor reason to remove the sub-forums, in my opinion). I see this portion of the debate as a no-brainer: we need to keep the place organized, as best we can, just like any resource site out there is organized.
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Old December 14th, 2010, 07:21 AM   #131 (permalink)
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Because of this, I think Tips and How Tos is a valuable sub-forum idea, along with Support, Root and perhaps "Accessories and Apps," or whatever..
So what your saying is that you prefer nothing to change?
(just so i'm sure)
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Old December 14th, 2010, 08:28 AM   #132 (permalink)
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And on average I'd say a thread gets created in the Tips forum every 2-3 weeks. So with that, there would still be a organized structure since the amount of threads being added on would be another half a page at most (and this would only be for the more active forums)
I disagree with this one. If you put the tips threads in the main forums, they will most likely see close to zero traffic. These threads are old with few replies but higher views. So they are not always 'refresh to the top of the forum' with new posts. Move it to the main forums, and all the good tips will most likely die. With the subforums, at least there's a chance that a new user might see it. If they don't know a tips exist, how can you expect them to search for it?
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Old December 14th, 2010, 08:55 AM   #133 (permalink)
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So what your saying is that you prefer nothing to change?
(just so i'm sure)
Thanks for asking.

My first choice is what I outlined in post #122 and a bit in #126 (the removal of the device generic forums).

That ain't gonna happen.

My second choice is if keeping the generic areas, the addition of "Updates" sub-forums to each device forum, and the removal of "Updates and Cupcakes," keeping Support, etc, and a name change of the "Tips and Tricks" sub-forums to something like, "I have a Tip to Share," something that will help users to understand that it is not for queries, but for discovered tips.

Third choice is no change at all, as I voted in the poll.
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Old December 14th, 2010, 09:11 AM   #134 (permalink)
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I disagree with this one. If you put the tips threads in the main forums, they will most likely see close to zero traffic. These threads are old with few replies but higher views. So they are not always 'refresh to the top of the forum' with new posts. Move it to the main forums, and all the good tips will most likely die. With the subforums, at least there's a chance that a new user might see it. If they don't know a tips exist, how can you expect them to search for it?
True but I am warming to the idea of tags. A user can search by tag and only see threads labeled as tips, support, etc.
I still support the no change option but if tags are implemented the sort option would help those threads from getting 'lost'

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Thanks for asking.
Anytime, :-P
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Old December 14th, 2010, 05:03 PM   #135 (permalink)
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This is what the Sticky Guide thread that has (for the most part) been created in all device forums is for - if there is a valuable tip or trick, you can add it in there, so that that thread stays fresh. Or, you could still have the Tips and Tricks subforum but make it restricted so that users cannot post in there and that once a thread is deemed trick worthy, be moved into there. Or, it can stay (haha).. either way, this really isn't the big issue users are having. The issue users are having are they want their support questions answered ASAP - and aren't happy when they are moved as they have the notion it will just get buried or will not receive the views they want versus if it were in the main forum. I think all older guides can agree on this reviewing all the threads complaining about thread movement.
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Old December 14th, 2010, 08:45 PM   #137 (permalink)
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Some of the other device sticky guides are more elaborate and far reaching, and some have not evolved much, but they're all beyond "tips" for the device.

That stuff is instructional and also has an inherent quality of causing members to navigate the sub-forums over time.

Complaints about thread movement are sporadic and should sometimes keep us tuned to where and when to do that, not keep us from doing it when needed because there is a structure and that structure is only functional when maintained.
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Old December 14th, 2010, 11:22 PM   #138 (permalink)
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The sticky thread can be used to place a list of tips and tricks (your example isn't the best as placing a link to the subforum when its already there does not help users and essentially does nothing for anyone) if we do away with the subforum, however it's not a requirement as I said earlier. No where did I say it was only for tips and tricks, rather just another addition to that thread to keep it fresh as placing helpful links in there is its purpose. We could also look into the other two suggestions I made for that subforum, if the first doesn't seem feasible. As I mentioned, we could do whatever with the Tips and Tricks - I have no issue. My main suggestion is to merge the Support forum for the main reason that (as I have stated again and again before) it is just plain efficient and keeps things simple/clean.
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Old December 15th, 2010, 05:44 AM   #139 (permalink)
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Thanks for explaining, woop.

I feel like there has been enough input from me here in this thread. I feel like I've wrung my points dry.

Parting Shot :

- If we want to cut down on thread movement, we need to include some member education in the Tips and How Tos sub-forums and the big generic device areas (red bold sticky reminders, kind reminders in posts to those who's threads we've moved, etc).

It appears the poll percentages have remained the same for several days now.
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Old December 15th, 2010, 11:52 AM   #140 (permalink)
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I disagree with this one. If you put the tips threads in the main forums, they will most likely see close to zero traffic. These threads are old with few replies but higher views. So they are not always 'refresh to the top of the forum' with new posts. Move it to the main forums, and all the good tips will most likely die. With the subforums, at least there's a chance that a new user might see it. If they don't know a tips exist, how can you expect them to search for it?
Agreed,

However, tips and tricks forums seem (well Desire anyway) to get mixed up with support questions.

Would it be possible to restrict the tips & tricks so that we members cannot post new threads there, and threads that are "tipped" can be moved by officials?
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Old December 15th, 2010, 12:57 PM   #141 (permalink)
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Would it be possible to restrict the tips & tricks so that we members cannot post new threads there, and threads that are "tipped" can be moved by officials?
That would make it easier for members wanting a tip to just post a query in the Support area, while those with a tip could PM a staffer or simply indicate in their "tip" post that they'd like it to be considered for the Tips and Tricks sub-forum.
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Old December 15th, 2010, 01:53 PM   #142 (permalink)
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Guys, chill, we all have ideas so lets be diplomatic about it. besides my ideas are the best anyway so why bother arguing. lol

Quote:
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Hm, no posting in the general/main forum, only in subforums?
Ok, with all due respect, i think Phases has had a few too many pistachios.

Seriously, boss, if you close out the general/main forum then where are these general posts going to be placed at. not all posts can be classified into one of the subforums. Unless i am mis-interpreting your post (am if i am forgive me) but doing that will lead to utter chaos and really piss off alot of members.

Once again, I the Banlandia master will provide you all with the ideal setup.

  1. Add subforums to all phones (be consistant)
  2. Add mandatory prefixes to new thread creation. (Option 2)
  3. No merge of the Tip and Tricks sections. While it is debatable that the Tips and Tricks section may be useless after a while to some, in my opinion it is not. it serves a purpose especially when the phone is new. When it is as old as Moses (or in our case Steven58) and there are little to no more tips and tricks to be found, it is still useful (at least to me) in finding tips on other peoples' phone.
  4. As for the Support subsection. Okay, I'll bite. In hindsight all questions in the General section are in one way or another a support question. So if that section is merged with the General section then I see no problem. (Wondering now if thats what Phases meant).

Either way, if the prefixes are implemented (I think they should be), then we should be also hashing out the types of prefixes. I propose the following IDs (4 letter length)...

IDType of Thread
GENL=General
TIPS=Tips & Tricks
SUPP=Support
ROOT=Root
ROMS=ROMs & Hacks
WALL=Wallpapers
APPS=Programs and Utilities
GAME=Games
THEM=Themes


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Old December 15th, 2010, 02:16 PM   #143 (permalink)
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Ok, with all due respect, i think Phases has had a few too many pistachios.
Wait...I work for peanuts and Phases get pistachios? You better be sharing that bag of pistachios with us, mister!!!
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Old December 15th, 2010, 02:17 PM   #144 (permalink)
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(FYI: Wouldn't get rid of the main section, entertained that thought for barely a minute.)
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Old December 15th, 2010, 03:34 PM   #145 (permalink)
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T.S., when Phases posted "Hm, no posting in the general/main forum, only in subforums?" he was asking me about my proposal to remove the generic device area, leaving only sub-forums for the devices.

I was throwing the notion out there because I had been looking at the device "lounge" threads showing up and now in the Lounge, "Incredible Lounge" thread, etc.

It's secondary to my vote for leaving things as they are, but renaming "Tips and Tricks" to perhaps "I have a Tip for (device) Users," or whatever. Plus member education as to where to post, etc (at sign up, in bold red stickies, in friendly posts by Guides and Mods to them when moving threads, etc).

Most members comply and just do their business here, those who complain (one Mod says he gets PMs from members complaining about moved threads) are just not used to seeing the place getting organized.
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Old December 16th, 2010, 02:25 AM   #146 (permalink)
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That would make it easier for members wanting a tip to just post a query in the Support area, while those with a tip could PM a staffer or simply indicate in their "tip" post that they'd like it to be considered for the Tips and Tricks sub-forum.

Yeah
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Old December 16th, 2010, 03:13 AM   #147 (permalink)
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T.S., when Phases posted "Hm, no posting in the general/main forum, only in subforums?" he was asking me about my proposal to remove the generic device area, leaving only sub-forums for the devices.

I was throwing the notion out there because I had been looking at the device "lounge" threads showing up and now in the Lounge, "Incredible Lounge" thread, etc.

It's secondary to my vote for leaving things as they are, but renaming "Tips and Tricks" to perhaps "I have a Tip for (device) Users," or whatever. Plus member education as to where to post, etc (at sign up, in bold red stickies, in friendly posts by Guides and Mods to them when moving threads, etc).

Most members comply and just do their business here, those who complain (one Mod says he gets PMs from members complaining about moved threads) are just not used to seeing the place getting organized.
Those lounges are for off-topic discussions (as in, nothing related to the phone - essentially just a chat room) amongst those with the same phone and have nothing to do with the random topics that are being referred to as needed to stay in the main device forums, so I don't think theres a connection. The main forum is for things like "Info about 2.x/3.x for _____", which doesn't belong in any of the subforums yet would not consider enough post-activity to garner its own Updates type of subforum. Or a "Is it possible to _______ with my _______" or "Looks like theres an update to our _______ app(UI specific; i.e. HTC sense apps, TouchWiz apps, etc.)" or "Should I get _______ or _______" or "Was thinking about getting a _______, can it do what I need it to do?" None of these would fit in the existing subforums nor would have enough traffic for their own.

Hence, the need for a main device forum is absolutely necessary in all circumstances.
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Old December 16th, 2010, 04:30 AM   #148 (permalink)
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Hence, the need for a main device forum is absolutely necessary in all circumstances.
Completely agree.

I had mentioned previously that it would make a good subforum (General) and there only be subforums, no main forum below the subforums list, as it still does confuse some members.

I always thought it would engage members and encourage into categorising their post as they post it.

Unfortunately this suggestion made me a laughing stock
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Old December 16th, 2010, 05:23 AM   #149 (permalink)
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(FYI: Wouldn't get rid of the main section, entertained that thought for barely a minute.)
Yay.

..er,

I had fun throwing that out there.. I still like it, but it's not on my mind nearly as much as keeping the subs and "fine tuning" them a bit, especially renaming all "Tips" subs to something that makes it less likely question/support threads will be started there.

How does the addition of "Updates" as a sub sound? We've had to start a few stickies here and there, "All Things Froyo," etc, because of the multitude of new "where's my 2.2?" new threads (we did it with "All Things GPS" a while back Captivate as well, but that has died down and I'm sure ongoing updates won't ).

That, along with the removal of "Updates and Cupcakes" seems like a viable way to deal with the ongoing questions about MR and major updates to the devices.

If "Updates and Cupcakes" were to remain, I'm thinking that we'd still see a lot of movement of threads/questions to the specific device Updates sub, but having the specific device Updates sub would keep the conversation among that device's "family."
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Old December 18th, 2010, 01:25 PM   #150 (permalink)
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Is there a way to change your vote in the poll?
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