Phone Sections: Sub-forums vs Prefixes vs Nothing

[Phases]

I will try to make this short. Please read the whole thing before voting - we value your input but we want you to be absolutely sure before casting your vote.

Please select the CLOSEST option to what you want, providing input in a reply if needed. If you notice someone else replying with something that totally matches your thought as well, give them "Thanks" by clicking the appropriate "Thanks" icon.

(1) Having "Accessories", "Tips and Tricks", and "Support and Troubleshooting" sub-forums, like we have now in many sections

The benefit to this set up is obvious. Organization. It also gives your threads time to be seen before they are back on page four. However it results in many users' threads being moved and adding to annoyance, as our staff finds threads that should be in sub-forums but aren't.

(2) Removing "Accessories", "Tips and Tricks", and "Support and Troubleshooting" sub-forums, and requiring sortable prefixes instead.

See the following example:

Fountaine Pajot - Cruisers & Sailing Forums

See the prefixes to the left of every thread? You can use the dropdown at the top of the forum to select which a prefix you want to single out and view. This is nice.

This would allow threads to stay where they are created and also allow people to sort (ok, not really sort.. but you get it) when they want to see only certain types of threads. This is much easier on staff and less annoying to users (as far as threads being moved around). The drawback is the added step of having to pick a prefix when creating threads. This would be required. I personally do not think that extra 2 clicks is a big deal, but this is why we're asking for input. Some prefixes may be:

General
Support
Tips
Accessories

The "All Things Root" sub-forums would stay, and have their own set of prefixes:

General
Root
ROMs
Themes
Hacks
..etc.

(3) Removing "Accessories", "Tips and Tricks", and "Support and Troubleshooting" sub-forums, and NO prefixes:

This also makes for easier management on our staff, and doesn't include the extra step during thread creation of selecting a prefix, but gives zero organization. When you make a thread in one of our more popular forums - by the end of the day it's down on page four if it hasn't been replied to.

This can be a problem for people wanting an answer then watching their thread go off to page one shmillion.But like the prefixes option - it makes browsing ALL threads in a phone forum easier as you're not having to go forum to forum. You just click next page over and over.

Please provide your input.

This poll is to gauge the preference of our user base. We may adjust accordingly, or may not. It depends on how overwhelming the winning opinion is, as either change would be quite the project. We have stickies and links all over the place that would have to be modified.

So, please think well on it, look at the forum linked above, and consider the pros and cons of each before voting and/or responding.

I'm looking forward to hearing all your opinions.

[eyebeam]

It's a tough call for me. In a slower section such as the Sprint Hero has now become, I think the multiple sub-forums are unnecessary and make seeing posts and getting/giving advice more difficult. But, in the busier areas, I can definitely see how this actually helps keep more posts visible. I guess I'll vote for giving the prefixes a try. I think this would work best for all but the most active sections.

[cynkrzy]

I like things just fine the way they are But I'm new

[blkbeltkid17]

i like things the why they are ... why fix something that already works ???

[Moonfire]

I like things the way they are, personally. (Granted, I'm compulsive and tend to be against change in general.) Some of the less popular ones could get just one section, perhaps, but having none of them would be chaos.

Is the current issue that mods are constantly moving threads around? Maybe recruiting more mods would be an option as well, or even a sub-mod that just has power to move threads.

[Xyro]

I like number two. Especially the fact that people are forced to pick an option - it might encourage more people, especially brand new members, to think about it before posting.

And even if people pick the wrong ones, at least we can 'move' the thread without actually changing it's location or leaving a load of ugly redirects behind. We won't have to worry about members not being able to find the post either, which is something people have complained about in the past.

Anything that helps us cut down on threads that need moving is a good thing IMO. We have around 70 people capable of moving threads and it's still impossible to keep every post in the right section.

It's quite a big change from what we use now, but as a staff member I don't see any negatives, only positives.

Originally Posted by Moonfire

Is the current issue that mods are constantly moving threads around? Maybe recruiting more mods would be an option as well, or even a sub-mod that just has power to move threads.

That's one of the roles of the guides

[Phases]

I'm a fan of option 2, personally.



Keep the feedback coming!

[Moonfire]

Originally Posted by Xyro

That's one of the roles of the guides

Oh, I see - shows how much of a newbie I still am, lol.

Tbh, still a bit apprehensive about the filter option, but had no idea we had that many mods (and still having issues keeping up). It's certainly more preferable to option three, though.

Maybe a trial period and people can vote again afterwords? Might be too much work to do that, though.

[Xyro]

Originally Posted by Xyro

We have around 70 people capable of moving threads and it's still impossible to keep every post in the right section.

Originally Posted by Moonfire

but had no idea we had that many mods (and still having issues keeping up).

Maybe a trial period and people can vote again afterwords? Might be too much work to do that, though.

I included all of the admins/mods/guides in that count; there are only about 25 mods.

A trial period could work, so long as it's easy to switch between the two methods. We don't want to have to reorganise everything twice :P

[Kelmar]

I think option 2 or 3 would be the best. Let's give option 2 a shot and if worse comes to worse, go back to 3.

While the current setup is nice and allows for fantastic organization, it may be TOO organized (if that makes sense). That being said, I worry that option 2 may be create too much organization as well. How many root noobs are going to understand which option to choose as an example.

[twospirits]

Option 3 is not an option. It will bring us back to the very same chaos we tried to eliminate in the first place (which resulted in creating sub-forums) to keep things organized.

Option 2 may be doable since it forces the thread maker to select an option/category. But this does nothing if the member selects the wrong section.

Also by selecting a category from the drop down list does the thread get placed into the correct sub-forum or does it stay in the current forum. If it stays in the current forum, we then go back to one of the original complaints that threads fall off the first page never to be seen since everything is in one place.

Either way (either option) in my opinion will not reduce the load of work for the staff, it may lessen one thing, but maintaining its replacement may be more work.

Personally I like the current option we have and # 2 if we didn't have the current setup.

TS

[Xyro]

Originally Posted by twospirits

Also by selecting a category from the drop down list does the thread get placed into the correct sub-forum or does it stay in the current forum. If it stays in the current forum, we then go back to one of the original complaints that threads fall off the first page never to be seen since everything is in one place.

The way I understood it, there wouldn't be any sub forums any more. In stead you'd have the option to view all labels or one specific label (just like in gmail). So you can still separate out accessory only threads, for example, even though they're in the same section as non-accessory threads.

[reinbeau]

I really like the subforums. XDA has them, as well as the tags. Personally if the tags are going to be used I hope the subforums stay. It just makes more sense that way.

[Phases]

Be sure to check out the forum I linked for an example of option 2. It doesn't really add to organization off the bat, would leave threads like normal - but then allows for someone to go through and find all they want in certain categories if they want.

[davidnmegan6907]

I think that keeping it the same sounds the best. I don't know about other users but I spend about 75% of my time in here, which has been a whole lot, on my mobile. I think the way it is now seems to look easier to navigate. I hope that some other mobile users think this through before voting. Thanks for giving me a soap box to stand on so I can voice my .02

[twospirits]

^ thats true, didn't even think about the mobile aspect of it. Would the Phandroid app do option # 2?

TS

[woop]

IMO, I think the best way to handle it is to delete the Tips and Tricks and the Support and Troubleshoot forum. The Tips and Tricks one is a bit too ambiguous in terms of whether something should go there or just stay in the main thread. In the same token, it also then suffers a drop in traffic because there really isn't that many tips and tricks to be discovered after a phone has been out for quite some time. The notion to delete the support forum is pretty obvious. I'd say about 80% of the threads that get moved out of the main forum are support type questions. Merge this INTO the main forum (since users don't even bother posting in the support forum anyways, might as well just make it easier for them and combine the two so there aren't redirects everywhere), and leave the Root forum (I think this is VITAL in keeping the flow of the forum as well as the stability of usage and members) as well as the Accessory forum (threads that are related to accessories can EASILY be identified whereas support/trick type threads can fall under several categories (ie. if a support question is answered, should it go to tricks? should it stay? should it be moved back now that theres a solution? should it never have been moved at all?).

If that above isn't what is available, then I'd either go with stay the same or prefixes (although as someone said, the vertical scroll on the busier forums is gonna be insane - and even worse on mobile platforms.) The suggested method I proposed above would seem to be the middle ground of keeping alot of what's working right now, but address the main gripe of users (as I said before, almost all threads moved are support-related)

Edit: Phases, do you think it would be a good idea to copy this thread into the Lounge forum as well as Android Lounge forum so that people who never scroll all the way down here can also voice their opinion (those would probably be a larger majority compared to people who check this suggestions/feedback one)?

[twospirits]

I stand corrected. I changed my vote to Option # 2 (after playing around with that other site and seeing how it works). Sorting feature works nice.

If what woop says above is whats done, then I see this working.

TS out

[OMJ]

Im liking option #2

[Roze]

I like the way it's organized as is, I think it works in SOME forums and doesn't really in others. I feel that members don't use the subforums in many instances is because the subforums are created MONTHS upon MONTHS after when the phone forum was created. Habits have formed so now members dislike this 'new idea of subforums'. Phases, I've brought this up before, but if we're going with #1, can you get Rob to allow you to create the subforums when you create the phone forum?

I've voted for #2 because to me it's a compromise between currently what we have issues with some members in quite a number of phone forums. Also, it'll reduce the staff's workload by a lot! It gives us the organization and allows members to be view everything in one area so they don't need to click on everything. I'm assuming that the member can't create a thread without selecting what area it's in?

I would love though I don't think most will agree...to merge #1 and #2
That is keep the subforums, and if a member create a [root] thread, it goes to the root subforum. This will be a very enhanced #1 option. This will definitely reduce the number of threads being move by us.

Originally Posted by Kelmar

I think option 2 or 3 would be the best. Let's give option 2 a shot and if worse comes to worse, go back to 3.

While the current setup is nice and allows for fantastic organization, it may be TOO organized (if that makes sense). That being said, I worry that option 2 may be create too much organization as well. How many root noobs are going to understand which option to choose as an example.

I agree with TS (forgot to quote him) Option 3 is NOT AN OPTION! I remember when we didn't have subforums...oh yeah...there are still phone forums that don't have subforums. It was a PITA to navigate through. I don't want to read about rooting or what case and I have to thread through a number of threads bypassing what I don't want to read to find threads I DO want.

[Frisco]

I have (mild) disagreement about the Tips and Tricks sub-forums. I feel that they are quite useful and can be maintained with the addition of a "no questions here please" sticky in each one.

As long as the OP is a true discovered tip for that device, it belongs there. If is is a tip sought after, it needs to be moved to the Support sub-forum (that's how I've been handling them).

Support and Troubleshooting seems easy, as posts about "where can I get this or that app" just belong in the generic device area. But "this app borked my video player" goes to Support and Troubleshooting.

[Roze]

Originally Posted by Frisco

I have (mild) disagreement about the Tips and Tricks sub-forums. I feel that they are quite useful and can be maintained with the addition of a "no questions here please" sticky in each one.

As long as the OP is a true discovered tip for that device, it belongs there. If is is a tip sought after, it needs to be moved to the Support sub-forum (that's how I've been handling them).

Same here with me that's how I've been dealing with those two subforums.

Support and Troubleshooting seems easy, as posts about "where can I get this or that app" just belong in the generic device area.

That actually should go to the Application Forum :P

[Frisco]

Originally Posted by Roze

Same here with me that's how I've been dealing with those two subforums.
That actually should go to the Application Forum :P

Well, I'd be hesitant to move a device specific app query out of that device's forum, though. But many others go there, of course.

I wonder how this is going to turn out. It'll directly impact the staff's tasks around the phone forums.

[woop]

Originally Posted by Frisco

I have (mild) disagreement about the Tips and Tricks sub-forums. I feel that they are quite useful and can be maintained with the addition of a "no questions here please" sticky in each one.

As long as the OP is a true discovered tip for that device, it belongs there. If is is a tip sought after, it needs to be moved to the Support sub-forum (that's how I've been handling them).

Support and Troubleshooting seems easy, as posts about "where can I get this or that app" just belong in the generic device area. But "this app borked my video player" goes to Support and Troubleshooting.

Thats fine until a phone has been out for a year. Then there really isn't many more tips that can be discovered, and essentially that subforum turns into a graveyard with no activity (even though it may or may not have good, helpful tips for new users - it would be a moot point as people will see the last post is like from 3 months ago and won't even bother checking there)

Again, I still stand by my suggestion as what seems to be a compromise between moving forward by addressing what has been a concern of members with the moving of threads (which I also will say is not completely on mods/guides as members need to take responsibility for their own actions of not taking the time to correctly place their threads in the correct subforum), but also keeping the structure of what we have now. I can guarantee a large drop in activity if the root forum was just mashed into the main forum as there would be alot more chaos (regardless of whether there are prefixes or not), and members would probably prefer to just visit XDA if that was the case. I think with the organization we have, we offer what XDA does not - root discussion but other angles of discussion as well; in a organized manner. The issue here is members (lets be honest, this seems to be the elephant in the room) are want their support type threads to be seen, as obviously they want a solution in the fastest manner possible without much work on themselves. How can they accomplish that? By making a thread in the main forum where the largest traffic activity is. Totally understandable. I would want my problem fixed fast if I had any issue with my phone. But the thing is, because we have a support subforum for that, they don't like the fact that their thread is going to a less visited forum while they have to wait for their problem to be fixed.

Just take a look at the redirects in any busy forum. Support, support, support. Take a look at the threads complaining about moved threads - those OP's made SUPPORT threads that got moved, then complained no one sees their thread in that particular support subforum.

We don't have to completely reorganized the whole place over what seems to be the most glaring issue. The Motorola Droid forum seemed to flow extremely well when it had just Accessories, Root, Tips/Tricks (this may or may not be useful), and no Support forum.

[woop]

Originally Posted by Roze

I like the way it's organized as is, I think it works in SOME forums and doesn't really in others. I feel that members don't use the subforums in many instances is because the subforums are created MONTHS upon MONTHS after when the phone forum was created. Habits have formed so now members dislike this 'new idea of subforums'. Phases, I've brought this up before, but if we're going with #1, can you get Rob to allow you to create the subforums when you create the phone forum?

I agree!

[Jacki1008]

I prefer Option 1- things as they are currently. For me, it has made this site so user-friendly and one of the things that differentiates these forums from others.

[Frisco]

Originally Posted by Jacki1008

I prefer Option 1- things as they are currently. For me, it has made this site so user-friendly and one of the things that differentiates these forums from others.

I sure agree with that.

It is the style of forum that takes consistent monitoring and maintenance to keep it going. It's a bit harder than just allowing a big generic area where requests for help are mixed in with banter and discussion about updates, etc. But the result over time is growing to be a structured, reliable source for Android users, many of which have little or no "geek factor" and only a question about their new phone.

We need to have places where those questions belong. We need to keep the place in order for them.

[Kelmar]

Originally Posted by Roze

I agree with TS (forgot to quote him) Option 3 is NOT AN OPTION! I remember when we didn't have subforums...oh yeah...there are still phone forums that don't have subforums. It was a PITA to navigate through. I don't want to read about rooting or what case and I have to thread through a number of threads bypassing what I don't want to read to find threads I DO want.

They (subforums) have their benefit, but if we decide to keep the current method I think we need to not have subforums within subforums (if that makes sense).

[johnlgalt]

However, having side by side forums for All things root and ROMs is, well, not really kosher either. I mean, can you install an alternate ROM without rooting?

[NightAngel79]

Originally Posted by Xyro

That's one of the roles of the guides

WAit... what are our other roles?

Originally Posted by Phases

I'm a fan of option 2, personally.



Keep the feedback coming!

2 definitely has some possibilities, leaning more towards sticking with 1 though

Originally Posted by twospirits

Option 3 is not an option. It will bring us back to the very same chaos we tried to eliminate in the first place (which resulted in creating sub-forums) to keep things organized.
TS

+9999999999999999999

Originally Posted by woop

Edit: Phases, do you think it would be a good idea to copy this thread into the Lounge forum as well as Android Lounge forum so that people who never scroll all the way down here can also voice their opinion (those would probably be a larger majority compared to people who check this suggestions/feedback one)?

Great idea about lounge. Would get an insane more amount of views/feedback


Honestly i would like to see the a possible blend of 1 and 2. The way i see it is if users are not gonna take the time to check out their respective phone's support section to see if they can answer anyone's question they most likely aren't gonna bother with the sort option either. Without sorting then maybe they see a newly posted support question and maybe they jump in and help.

Stick with one but make it mandatory to 'tag' every new thread. Maybe some still get tagged wrong and maybe some still need moved, but if i can search for a certain tag (tips, support, root, accessory) in the general section i only see that as making AF more user friendly

[bluenova]

Phases, do you know how option 2 would effect the Phandroid app?

[Frisco]

Originally Posted by bluenova

Phases, do you know how option 2 would effect the Phandroid app?

I was wondering about Phandroid app development, too, in relation to proposed changes in the structure of the site.

A lot of work has gone into that app, not to mention all the sub-forum creations in the device forums (mostly, all? by Phases, I gather).

It'll be interesting to see how this all turns out.

[Kelmar]

Originally Posted by johnlgalt

However, having side by side forums for All things root and ROMs is, well, not really kosher either. I mean, can you install an alternate ROM without rooting?

That, IMO, would be the exception.

However Troubleshooting/Tips/Root all under General is where I think people get confused. The XDA method of having the phone THEN forums for the phone is very beneficial in my mind.

[Frisco]

Originally Posted by Kelmar

The XDA method of having the phone THEN forums for the phone is very beneficial in my mind.

Well I'll sure give you that; the XDA cluster does have a smooth navigation experience, especially for a place so vast.

The AF scheme, as it is, however, seems like a work in progress that could be just as good as XDA, in its differences. They're good/We're good in a different way.

Stuff like that.

[ScorpDX]

I say option 1. Just because as annoying as it is already to see threads in the wrong forum it's going to get 10x worse trying to decipher prefixes that aren't right because of user error!

[Frisco]

Originally Posted by ScorpDX

I say option 1. Just because as annoying as it is already to see threads in the wrong forum it's going to get 10x worse trying to decipher prefixes that aren't right because of user error!

+1

This:

General
Root
ROMs
Themes
Hacks
..etc. <--------- scarey

[Frisco]

Most of the frustration over the current system is probably about moving threads begun in the wrong area.

To me, the solution to that is member education. Stickies with reminders about not posting queries in Tips and Tricks, etc, don't seem to work.

I've been occasionally including a kind reminder in a post following a move. I have not done that on a regular basis, but I'm thinking that if it were done as a matter of policy, perhaps with a set spiel agreed to by Moderators/Phases, etc, it could be effective.

"Your thread has been moved from the Tips and Tricks area, where discovered tips and remedies, etc are to be posted to share with other users of the device, to the Support area, where questions belong." Something like that.

What's being proposed, the options other than #1, seem to throw out the baby with the bath water, in my opinion.

[StoneDeCroze]

I prefer some sort of organised layout, one single forum with everything in is just a mess. Even the smaller forums I frequent have some sort of structure. In fact most don't have the top level at all, everything HAS to go into a subforum. That makes people think about where they post things.

I also wish that people would use the search facility before posting the 42nd variation of a particular question! However, that's highly unlikely to happen

[lekky]

Number 2.

The reason being number 1 isn't working. Mods and guides spend an inordinate amount of their time moving threads to the correct section. It's not helping anyone.

Number 2 would make everyones life more pleasant.

[reinbeau]

Originally Posted by Frisco

Most of the frustration over the current system is probably about moving threads begun in the wrong area.

To me, the solution to that is member education. Stickies with reminders about not posting queries in Tips and Tricks, etc, don't seem to work.

I've been occasionally including a kind reminder in a post following a move. I have not done that on a regular basis, but I'm thinking that if it were done as a matter of policy, perhaps with a set spiel agreed to by Moderators/Phases, etc, it could be effective.

"Your thread has been moved from the Tips and Tricks area, where discovered tips and remedies, etc are to be posted to share with other users of the device, to the Support area, where questions belong." Something like that.

What's being proposed, the options other than #1, seem to throw out the baby with the bath water, in my opinion.

I think Frisco has nailed it - Member Education. They need to be taught to think before they post. So, in away, the prefixes along with leaving the structure would be a way to give them that education. Make them think before they hit the post button. I'm sure it will cut down on the number of moves that have to be made.

And I just gotta ask - what the heck is 'Updates & Cupcakes'? Awful lot of threads getting moved out of there....

[Frisco]

Originally Posted by reinbeau

And I just gotta ask - what the heck is 'Updates & Cupcakes'? Awful lot of threads getting moved out of there....

I move threads to the area where I think the OP can get the most help, if it's a query. A high percentage of the time, posts in U&C are device specific and need to be seen by that device's users, so are moved to that forum, even though they are often update related.

[Xyro]

I see it as a bit of a redundant section.

If people are talking about up and coming android firmware, chances are they'll be discussing news in the android news section. If they're discussing firmware they're using/upgrading to, it's usually device specific.

[twospirits]

Originally Posted by lekky

Number 2.

The reason being number 1 isn't working. Mods and guides spend an inordinate amount of their time moving threads to the correct section. It's not helping anyone.

Number 2 would make everyones life more pleasant.

Although I already changed my vote to # 2 in the poll, this statement makes me once again wonder what happens when a poster selects the wrong category from the drop down list. Wouldn't the staff still have to fix it. True it would be less work than whats going on now, but its something to think about.

Also,
Option 3 is not an Option. lol Sorry, Just had to say that again.

TS out

[Xyro]

Originally Posted by twospirits

this statement makes me once again wonder what happens when a poster selects the wrong category from the drop down list. Wouldn't the staff still have to fix it. True it would be less work than whats going on now, but its something to think about.

Also,
Option 3 is not an Option. lol Sorry, Just had to say that again.

TS out

Well whether we use #1 or #2 we still have to move threads in the wrong section/label, but at least with the label method you can force people to pick one. That should cut down on people just going straight for the main section for a phone when it should go into a subsection.

[Martimus]

I vote for option 1!

In the forums I've been on with definable prefix's, the challenge is in getting everyone on the same page in terms of what each prefix means... and that the use of prefixes must be mandatory and consistent to get any real benefit.

And to further my thought retrofitting option 2 to the forum would, in and of itself, be a painfully daunting task. Unless Phases or the Phandroid developer are planning to write a database query that modifies each entry, someone will have to manually change the prefix on each thread moved from each sub-forum.

And beyond this I'm still concerned that eliminating subforums on the more popular forums will mean that a new users help request will be on page 4 by the end of the day. That will essentially mean that they have to wait for someone to find their thread in a search.

[Sweet Chaos]

I feel really weird posting here because I'm a total newbie both to the site and to Android phones, but I'm bored at work so I'm gonna give you my $0.02 anyway =D

Personally, I am a very organized person so the more folders the better, for me. However, I think it should be a combo of 1 and 2. Maybe keep the folders on the really busy areas and just use the prefixes on the slowers one, where it really is not necessary for there to be folders.

Also, I agree with everything Martimus said =)

[woop]

One thing about option 1 is, if this is what were going with, we really should be implementing this on ALL device forums. If you put it in later, no one ever uses it (ie. HTC Hero forums). People get accustomed to just posting in the main forum, and when the new subforums are created, they are essentially ignored.

[Kelmar]

Originally Posted by woop

One thing about option 1 is, if this is what were going with, we really should be implementing this on ALL device forums. If you put it in later, no one ever uses it (ie. HTC Hero forums). People get accustomed to just posting in the main forum, and when the new subforums are created, they are essentially ignored.

Agreed.

[lekky]

Option 2 will produce MUCH LESS wrong section posting that option 1.

Think about the reason why people currently post in the wrong section. Its because they jump into the phone section and either dont see the subforums, or not sure where to post so go for hte general option.

If at the time of thread creation, they are forcibly given the option to choose, they are way more likely to pick the right one.


All that equals much less work for mods/guides. It helps newbies who may be confused, and it helps get them answers because people are less likely to reply telling them they have posted inthe wrong section.

[davidnmegan6907]

I already posted my opinion ^ but I'm still curious if anyone knows how the other options would affect mobile use?