Phases

Ok. It seems I was not very clear on the first poll, and as a result the votes are unreliable. So - I apologize for asking everyone to vote again, but I just need to clear some things up.

What I'm talking about doing is removing JUST the "All Things Root" shortcut links on the forum home page - androidforums.com. (as shown in figure one)

Figure One:
The actual "All Things Root" sub-forums (as shown in figure 2) in various device areas will stay. All the quick links do are provide a quicker way to get there from the home page. However, if one utilizes the favorite forums column (also shown in figure 2) - they will have all the shortcuts from the homepage they want, right at the top.

Figure 2:
Now, as you can see up in figure 1, I suppose there are a couple options. Remove the entire "All Things Root" section (which is what I planned on doing), or optionally, just keep the actual device links from showing under it - and make is so you click into it to see the list of phones. (It functions this way now, click the All Things Root heading, you'll see.) This seems pointless to me as at that point you can just click into your device in the phone section, but that's just me. This idea is represented in figure three.

Figure 3:

This is an issue because when we complete the subforums debate - what we decide to do standard for phone forums will be done for all current devices and all new devices. One thing is known.. All Things Root will become a sub-forum for all devices by default.

So, as new phones come out, not only will they add length to the main page by adding a new device in the phone section, but they would also add length to the main page by adding a new device in the "All Things Root" quicklinks area.

I find this area no longer needed, extra upkeep, and the "favorite forums" feature to be a suitable replacement should one want one-click access to their rooting subforum. Therefore.. I really hope everyone goes for complete removal.. but have decided to solicit opinions.

I hope this helps clear things up. If unsure, ask before voting.

Thanks all!

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Last edited by Phases; January 13th, 2011 at 07:51 AM.

Frisco

I voted to "remove just devices" (option #2 but figure #3 ) as I think that root sub-forums should be represented in that main menu, but not each device individually linked right there because of the huge clutter/space issue in that menu.

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SUroot

I actually agree with this new solution and have swayed my vote to it, if it makes browsing the forum easier.

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davidnmegan6907

Im going to have to side with frisco on this one. And maybe you got a new writer here for you phases. Friscos explination was pretty clear

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YankeeDudeL

My thinking says to get rid of the "All Things Root" section with every available phone. It just seems smarter and more streamlined to group all subforums with their respective phones. It's like one-stop shopping, everything you need in one location.

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Roze

+ 4 Some people might have multiple devices and they might only want to go to the root subforums for these devices only.

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SUroot

If I had multiple devices, that would probably be me too

mhotovec

Well, I guess I'll be going against the group on this one (peer pressure, what peer pressure?). I think the main page is busy enough without adding more and more links to it as more subforums are added. I prefer complete removal and let the users set up 'favorite forums' if they'd like quick links to the root section of their preferred device(s) (I may prefer this for the simple fact that that's the way I'm set up myself). It will make the main screen cleaner and the users can still quickly get to the subforum of their choice.

saps

Im with Frisco, dont the main page clutter but do need the actual linkage to be there

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gallandof

keep the all things root on main page, but remove the sub links. too much clutter. or if possible make it user defined sublinks. I do use the Droid, droid x adn fascinate sublinks often

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SoFLO

In terms of quicklinks, remove the whole section. Not a fan of quicklinks on the main page.

However rooting is a big part of Android culture...just as much as Accessories, Media, and Themes imo. I think a forum dedicated to rooting would be cool. There could be development discussion, ideas exchanged, etc. The support/question/ROM threads would stay in their respective phone sub-forums.

That's a different monster for another time though.

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woop

Just curious, where would the Suggest New go? I don't think we, as a staff (based on numbers alone), would be able to keep track of every single device out in the Android world to see when they are rooted.

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Phases

All things root will become a standard subforum for all devices upon creation of the main forum.

woop

Even if the device isn't rooted though? Are we just gonna lock that particular subforum if that is the case and then unlock it for posting as soon as its rooted?

Phases

Eh, they can talk about how to root it or when will it be rooted, or it can sit unused.

woop

Gotcha

Edit: BTW, I think this time's poll results seem much more accurate haha

Steven58

I'm a minimalist. I voted #1. I think the opening page is too confusing especially for newbies. I always wondered why there were the root quick links. It took a while to figure the whole thinking out. Easier is better. Just my .02. I hope my fellow guides/mods don't hate me for it.

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reinbeau

+1, Steve, I agree with you.

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Steven58

Actually, whatever YOU vote, I agree. (You got the gun! )

Frisco

Almost even: (As of 8:30pm Central Time) about 43% want it to stay (keep it and remove just devices combined), and about 41% want it gone (the other 16% don't care).

Kelmar

Pretty much my thought as well.

They are all still listed under the individual phone section so I just see this as being repetitive.

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Frisco

I'm not in complete disagreement with that. But what makes me move away from the idea of taking it out altogether, not even leaving a link to the ATR devices list, is that it's just one more little gateway to special sections of this site which members use.

We could have a poll about taking out any one of those gateways and we'd see similar numbers because people in forums specialize their usage of the place.

Even if we discount the numbers in the first poll on this, and only look at the new poll here, we're seeing about half of those responding wanting to keep it (combining the link only votes with the link and list votes).

That might represent a lot of people if we consider that poll respondents comprise a percentage of the overall population of a forum (as an aside, those who really don't care don't vote ).

SUroot

My vote to keep the link isn't even for existing members. Its for web trawlers and newbies, to direct them easier if they find the whole thing a bit much. The problem is, that is imeasurable.

Frisco

+1.. it is not truly measurable (unless we analyse server logs), but it's sure a very logical notion.

Also, even if it were a minority of members who want to keep it, those members should not have to lose it just because many other members find it not needed.

Last edited by Frisco; January 14th, 2011 at 07:32 AM.

Phases

Well we just have to try to weigh the benefit for how many vs the cumbersome-ness for how many.

Also, hiding it so members don't see it, but it technically still being there (and usable if you know the URL) for spiders to crawl is easy.

Frisco

So, we need a third poll, which will include that option.

Phases

Nah, cuz that is what will happen if it goes away anyway. Didn't realize I needed to mention that or anyone would care about crawlers, though. heh.

I have a sneaking suspicion the winner will be removing the actual device links from showing on the main page, but leaving the "all things root" header that you can click into to see them.

Which stinks for me cuz it doesn't cut back on maintenance at all, just home page clutter. :P

woop

Its 31 to 23 with complete removal (versus leaving main link) on top though (54 to 10 with regards to removing [something] versus retaining everything, so keeping it should be out of the question as that is a landslide)

Last edited by woop; January 14th, 2011 at 06:47 PM.

DaSchmarotzer

Changed my vote to removing the whole section, so it's 32 to 22 now.

Sweet Chaos

I agree completely.

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Frisco

33 want it removed and 33 want it to stay either as a link or as a list of links to all device root subs. ... as of this post.

woop

Do you mean 22? 33 want it removed, 22 want it to stay as a main link. Then theres the 11 that want it to stay as is, and the "I don't care" group - which should not be lumped in with any option.

Frisco

Originally Posted by Frisco
33 want it removed and 33 want it to stay either as a link or as a list of links to all device root subs. ... as of this post.


Woop: Do you mean 22? 33 want it removed, 22 want it to stay as a main link. Then theres the 11 that want it to stay as is, and the "I don't care" group - which should not be lumped in with any option.

I'm lumping those two choices that don't want it gone.

SUroot

It would be unfair to not lump the ones to stay together. Just because there's 2 options to keep, that automatically splits the vote, but you can't split the removal vote.

John mccain for president with no tie = 9 votes

Barrack Obama for president but prefer he wears a blue tie = 7 votes

Barrack Obama for president but prefer he wears a black tie = 4 votes.

Who should be president?

Frisco

Your analogy strays a bit too far from my point, danfrance.

To clarify, with another analogy:

Two people in the family want to keep their lawn service.

One of those two people want the service to fertilize and mow.

The other one wants fertilizing only.

Neither of them want to lose the lawn service altogether.

A third person in the family wants the service to stop altogether.

A fourth has no opinion on the issue.

We can multiply the number of members in the family all we want: four people to keep it, two of them wanting mowing only, etc.....

Having said this, voted and read opinions about it, I was wondering who here feels strongly about this particular poll/issue? Phases does, and he has expressed in a post here the following:

"I have a sneaking suspicion the winner will be removing the actual device links from showing on the main page, but leaving the "all things root" header that you can click into to see them."

"Which stinks for me cuz it doesn't cut back on maintenance at all, just home page clutter."

That is what is "huge," imo; the site admin wants it gone. He's the one who knows the most about the place (I guess ).

Great to have a vote about it, but I think the admin's feelings about the whole thing should weigh more than just one vote.

Last edited by Frisco; January 15th, 2011 at 07:42 AM.

DaSchmarotzer

John McCain. What makes you think the people that voted for a black tie would prefer a blue tie over no tie at all? There are three different options in the current poll, like three different candidates.

Some people may see it as two options for removing it (or a big part of it) and one option for it to stay completely.

Anyway, the admins have now seen that it's not something everyone wants to stay so they can simply choose to remove it completely even though that particular option isn't the winning one.

Do we have a link that leads to every "tips and tricks" subforum? I don't think so. How is the "All things root" different?

Last edited by DaSchmarotzer; January 15th, 2011 at 04:21 PM.

woop

No option should be lumped together as if that was the case, Phases would have just combined that option. Keeping it as is versus keeping it without the hotlinks are totally different and if I were to vote for one (let's say, keeping it without hotlinks), I definitely wouldn't be voting for the other (keeping it as is) and vice versa. In the same token, others may or may not feel the same way, thus it would make it unfair to them by just putting that entire group under the umbrella. Not to mention it would skew the voting for anyone that is NOT voting either of those options.

Last edited by woop; January 15th, 2011 at 07:30 PM.

Frisco

Those two options are inherently lumped together; I'm making an observation, not creating it. Voters voting for either one of those two want to see something stay and not be removed.

woop

Lets say I voted to keep the main link. I definitely do not want the hot links if that was part of that option and would just have voted to remove everything if that were the case and I'm sure others feel the same way. Again, it is unfair to not only the people that voted that particular option, but opponents of that option.

That would defeat the purpose of even having two different options if they were indeed the same - which they are not.

Frisco

My point has little to do with that. It has to do with the difference between wanting nothing of the root links there (option #1) and wanting either all of it there or part of it.

All or part (options 2 and 3) is a quantum leap from nothing (option 1).

twospirits

For some strange reason I cannot see figure 3. I see the other two. So I can't vote for the time being.

But looking at the front page, Figure 1, I always thought it was cluttered.

TS

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Frisco

Figure #3 is this:

twospirits

Thank you kindly. Ok I voted. (For # 3) (I mean Figure 3) Option 2

TS

Last edited by twospirits; January 15th, 2011 at 08:49 PM.

woop

And thats fine, however that does not all of a sudden merge options either. One is want everything, one is want something, one is want nothing. We are going in circles over nothing here since in the end its Phases decision so the train stops here

asadullah

I don't know maybe I'm a typical user or maybe not. I google android forums scroll to lg optimus m and then go to that section. Unless I'm on my windows partition in which case I just click on my bookmark (why I haven't set up the bookmark on ubuntu I don't know). I then look at the general threads and then look at all things root wish we had a development section and then do whatever.

Frisco

"...the train stops here."

Indeedy...

Morsolo

First up, sorry if this has been previously mentioned...

Anyway, seeing as vBulletin is my forte, I figured I'd provide some input

Along with the aforementioned options, there is also two more I'd like to suggest.

Option A would be a collapsing submenu option. Leave it similar to how it is already (as per Fig.1), but just have it collapsed within a DIV tag, clicking a little "+" icon (or any other trigger) would expand the list. It keeps everything clean, but still entirely accessible.

Option B would involve a vB Modification, "Cyb - Sub Forum Manager". It's a brilliant modification that is designed to just clean up the listings. Sorting them into nice columns, rather than just comma separated. (here is a link to the vB.org Mod if the Admins want it)

I feel bad just randomly appearing with my near-zero posts and suggesting this as if I was a long-standing member. But I have developed a few vB sites in my time and I know what Sub Forum clutter feels like

Last edited by Morsolo; January 16th, 2011 at 01:50 AM.

Slug

Thanks for your input, Morsolo.

Your opinion is every bit as valid and valued as anyone elses', and I'm sure our hard-pressed Admins welcome any suggestions that might make their lives slightly less stressful.

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Frisco

Ageeing with Slug; that's great stuff, Morsolo. Very glad you've been reading in here and responded with some knowledgeable input.

DaSchmarotzer

I disagree.

You were talking about options 2 and 3. Now about options 1 and 2, I could say that these two options are inherently lumped together because voters for either one of those want to see something removed and not the whole thing stay.

There are three different options here, nothing can be lumped with anything.