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Feedback on Tethering - merged from PSA threads
I think charging 90$ a month for 1 phone line is theft. Lmao!!!!! its nice to know that cell phone company's can rape us,but when we take a tiny little bit back from them,WERE THE THIEVES! ! I don't even use it anyways. Just figured I'd add in my 2cents. Lol
Only if they are asking for the purposes of using it without the tether plan (most root users).
So we can't recommend rooting to get free wifi tether or using X app because it enables it. In other words, somebody has to change the rooting guides.
Your logic is sound, but is taking it to the extreme. This site is privately owned, and as such we are bound by whatever rules the owner deems fit. If said owner, took your cue and said rooting=tethering=theft and banned any and all info related to rooting that would be his/her prerogative(I think that would be incredibly stupid and would result in him/her losing a ton of business). Until that happens, I would suggest that we treat this as a 'don't ask don't tell' situation. If someone wants to root, it is not the sites business to know why, we can give them the same info and just leave out the tethering part.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theTrashcanMan
Your logic is sound, but is taking it to the extreme. This site is privately owned, and as such we are bound by whatever rules the owner deems fit. If said owner, took your cue and said rooting=tethering=theft and banned any and all info related to rooting that would be his/her prerogative(I think that would be incredibly stupid and would result in him/her losing a ton of business). Until that happens, I would suggest that we treat this as a 'don't ask don't tell' situation. If someone wants to root, it is not the sites business to know why, we can give them the same info and just leave out the tethering part.
I'm not taking it to the extreme at all. Nor did I say we can't root anymore. What I said is our rooting guides have a very specific "life after root section" that details wifi tethering. According to these new rules we need to take that out. Thats what I meant by my prior post, not that we need to completely get rid of all the guides.
In other words, the way I'm reading it is if someone asks how they can get WIFI tethering we need to tell them to go ask sprint about their plan, not oh hey download X ROM its got the hacked hotspot baked in.
Last edited by Rxpert83; January 9th, 2012 at 04:05 PM.
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Your logic is sound, but is taking it to the extreme. This site is privately owned, and as such we are bound by whatever rules the owner deems fit. If said owner, took your cue and said rooting=tethering=theft and banned any and all info related to rooting that would be his/her prerogative(I think that would be incredibly stupid and would result in him/her losing a ton of business). Until that happens, I would suggest that we treat this as a 'don't ask don't tell' situation. If someone wants to root, it is not the sites business to know why, we can give them the same info and just leave out the tethering part.
I think (and could be wrong) that he means the current rooting guides talk about hacked tethering and will need to be edited.
I'm not taking it to the extreme at all. Nor did I say we can't root anymore. What I said is literally what is quoted up there. Our rooting guides have a very specific "life after root section" that details wifi tethering. According to these new rules we need to take that out.
Oh...lol, well crap...I guess I misread your post. Sorry
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rxpert83
I'm not taking it to the extreme at all. Nor did I say we can't root anymore. What I said is literally what is quoted up there. Our rooting guides have a very specific "life after root section" that details wifi tethering. According to these new rules we need to take that out. Thats what I meant by my prior post, not that we need to completely get rid of all the guides.
Cant there be some kind of disclaimer put in the guide just wondering?
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Sorry, my posts weren't very clear I guess. Also, I came off sounding like an arse in the 2nd one and everyone quoted it as i went back and edited to add/remove things ahaha
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikem0269
Cant there be some kind of disclaimer put in the guide just wondering?
From the sounds of Ocn's OP the official stance is we are not to give out that information, just like when someone comes in here with a phone thats bricked and needs warranty service we arent supposed to tell them how to screw up the phone beyond recognition so Sprint/Assurion wont know they were rooted (insurance fraud).
Its a private website, and the owner has deemed that tethering without paying is stealing and stealing isnt ok.
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Yeah, I've heard about this and had a bit of discussion with some of the staff in the "Private Site-Questions" area (whatever it's called )... It's the owner's decision, which means it's law. Simple as that.
That being said, I don't necessarily think that the guides should be edited...
Should we post ROMs that have a hacked tethering app built in? Just curious how broad reaching the new policy is.
No, we won't be removing the roms that have this feature baked in. We won't be advertising said feature anymore though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9to5cynic
Yeah, I've heard about this and had a bit of discussion with some of the staff in the "Private Site-Questions" area (whatever it's called )... It's the owner's decision, which means it's law. Simple as that.
That being said, I don't necessarily think that the guides should be edited...
The discussions have been going around with the site staff, opinions were voiced and heard. The decision has been made, and we have been asked to abide by the site rules. As far as the guide goes we'll look at it and make a judgement call.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikekelso421
Nobody said we can't say. " hey,we can't talk about that on AF, but heres my email address..." lol.
What you do in private is what you do.
I really want to make sure all of yinz understand we're not picking on anyone, nor are we trying to be a gistapo force or anything. This is just something that we felt should be brought to the light and an informal, healthy, constructive discussion could evolve.
Teathering isn't all there is for rooted users, there's soo much more.
If something is bothering you, vent, get it out, in a non violent, non bashing kinda way.
We'll discuss, thats what community and friends are for!
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Well I do not nor have I ever used my phone to tether. I have not had a need to do so. I have DSL internet and a very good Cisco Router with wireless g/n/o/p/q/r/s/t/u/v/w/x/y/z all that good stuff. However I do have to agree with the decision it really boils down to legal liability. The owner of the site does take a risk of being sued and possibly arrested for being an accessory to a crime.
Mike - I agree charging that much is a crime however if you agree to it then the only crime then is just the "stupidity" of using that service with out finding a better alternative or a "Tax" write off. I mean anyone accepting a credit card that has a 30% interest rate is really no more or lest desperate. The Government allows this type of behaviour from these companies as long as they keep the "economy" going. We are merely slaves to a Corporate Master.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Granite1
The discussions have been going around with the site staff, opinions were voiced and heard. The decision has been made, and we have been asked to abide by the site rules. As far as the guide goes we'll look at it and make a judgement call.
Oh yeah - when it comes down to it, the call has already been made - so that's that really. And compared to a lot of forums I've been to, this one is pretty lax in a lot of it's rules. Basically - don't be a jerk.
Quote:
I really want to make sure all of yinz understand we're not picking on anyone, nor are we trying to be a gistapo force or anything. This is just something that we felt should be brought to the light and an informal, healthy, constructive discussion could evolve.
Teathering isn't all there is for rooted users, there's soo much more.
If something is bothering you, vent, get it out, in a non violent, non bashing kinda way.
We'll discuss, thats what community and friends are for!
And this site has some good ways to get your ideas about these features out there in a non-offensive, overly-dramatic way:
androidforums.com/private-chat-staff/
private chat with staff, they love it when you bug them there Suggestion Box & Feedback - Android Forums
Site feedback, enough said.
However, back on topic, I know a lot of people originally root their devices because of wifi tether (while not the sole reason, it is very appealing), and I wonder if this will deter people from rooting or joining the site... ?
Personally, I rooted to get rid of sprint crap
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Oh yeah - when it comes down to it, the call has already been made - so that's that really. And compared to a lot of forums I've been to, this one is pretty lax in a lot of it's rules. Basically - don't be a jerk.
And this site has some good ways to get your ideas about these features out there in a non-offensive, overly-dramatic way:
androidforums.com/private-chat-staff/
private chat with staff, they love it when you bug them there Suggestion Box & Feedback - Android Forums
Site feedback, enough said.
However, back on topic, I know a lot of people originally root their devices because of wifi tether (while not the sole reason, it is very appealing), and I wonder if this will deter people from rooting or joining the site... ?
Personally, I rooted to get rid of sprint crap
This is part of the reason we wanted to start a discussion thread, so folks understand there is waaaaaayyy more to rooting than just tethering.
I just want to be sure new members arent turned away from rooting, or the site because they can't get tethering info or help here.
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I agree... I mean, personally, I find xda to be a bit -- off-putting. A lot of people seem to get arrogant and elitist attitudes over there (and elsewhere online) -- but that doesn't really happen here. And if not here, xda would be the next place people would go right? Or maybe a Dev specific site...
And there is so much more to rooting. I'm not too sure how much of an impact it would have on account creation - but it might on duration. People (specific areas - root users and those looking for tethering) might not stick around as much, but I would wager that would be offset by new users from android's popularity.
And the rule makes sense - I might not really like it - but rule one of almost anything is cover your ass. That's all this is really, though, on one thread I read it was a more ethical dilemma - though I'm in no position to make that claim, simply hearsay.
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I think the word crime should be taken out of this conversation. Last I checked it is a violation of the tos of the cell phone contracts, which is not criminal. I'd bet that the reason for the new rules has more to do with pressure from one or more of the carriers, loss of revenue from advertizing, or both. I am not a lawyer nor do i play one on TV, but until someone shows me a criminal case dealing with tethering, it won't be a crime in my book.
Edit: as previously stated, I'm perfectly fine with the site owner making whatever rules they see fit. If they don't want us talking about the feature who shall not be named then so be it. I just don't think WE need to give any lawyers any ideas or ammunition to start trying to make those cases.
Last edited by theTrashcanMan; January 10th, 2012 at 01:02 AM.
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ok guys sorry that i am late to this conversation, but school and work caught up to me today. i started this thread to make everyone aware on what is to be expected going forward. this was also meant so that we can discuss this new guideline in a non dramatic way.
I'm not taking it to the extreme at all. Nor did I say we can't root anymore. What I said is our rooting guides have a very specific "life after root section" that details wifi tethering. According to these new rules we need to take that out. Thats what I meant by my prior post, not that we need to completely get rid of all the guides.
In other words, the way I'm reading it is if someone asks how they can get WIFI tethering we need to tell them to go ask sprint about their plan, not oh hey download X ROM its got the hacked hotspot baked in.
we can't go out of our way to mention tethering. but we can point it out that that roms do have the hotspot hacked. i think that is ok. however, we can't help anybody who has tethering questions or issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rxpert83
From the sounds of Ocn's OP the official stance is we are not to give out that information, just like when someone comes in here with a phone thats bricked and needs warranty service we arent supposed to tell them how to screw up the phone beyond recognition so Sprint/Assurion wont know they were rooted (insurance fraud).
Its a private website, and the owner has deemed that tethering without paying is stealing and stealing isnt ok.
exactly rxpert. i think you have the idea where we are going with this. that is another thing that is new as well. we can't say if you can't unroot to use this ruu and then lie to the techs when you take it in. not that we would say that anyways.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Granite1
This is part of the reason we wanted to start a discussion thread, so folks understand there is waaaaaayyy more to rooting than just tethering.
I just want to be sure new members arent turned away from rooting, or the site because they can't get tethering info or help here.
thank granite for saying that. that is my hope as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by theTrashcanMan
I think the word crime should be taken out of this conversation. Last I checked it is a violation of the tos of the cell phone contracts, which is not criminal. I'd bet that the reason for the new rules has more to do with pressure from one or more of the carriers, loss of revenue from advertizing, or both. I am not a lawyer nor do i play one on TV, but until someone shows me a criminal case dealing with tethering, it won't be a crime in my book.
Edit: as previously stated, I'm perfectly fine with the site owner making whatever rules they see fit. If they don't want us talking about the feature who shall not be named then so be it. I just don't think WE need to give any lawyers any ideas or ammunition to start trying to make those cases.
i do not think that is what some were saying. i think it was the matter of cost that should be a crime being that using the hotspot is expensive. and it is only a violation of your contract that is in jeopardy. but what higher ups think is that by using the free tethering apps you are stealing from the carriers which is wrong.
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Well I do not nor have I ever used my phone to tether. I have not had a need to do so. I have DSL internet and a very good Cisco Router with wireless g/n/o/p/q/r/s/t/u/v/w/x/y/z all that good stuff. However I do have to agree with the decision it really boils down to legal liability. The owner of the site does take a risk of being sued and possibly arrested for being an accessory to a crime.
Mike - I agree charging that much is a crime however if you agree to it then the only crime then is just the "stupidity" of using that service with out finding a better alternative or a "Tax" write off. I mean anyone accepting a credit card that has a 30% interest rate is really no more or lest desperate. The Government allows this type of behaviour from these companies as long as they keep the "economy" going. We are merely slaves to a Corporate Master.
Let us not become problems but solutions
In this post
I realize that I'm being kinda picky, in reality I know that this isn't a huge deal, but I don't like being called a criminal. This is a great site, mostly because both the members and the staff are friendly and helpful. The owner(s) can run the site however they choose and make whatever rules they deem fit(I'm a big private property rights fan, even if it does affect me negatively) but I also believe that a business should appreciate and respect its customers. We are the customers, and calling me and all the other users of the feature that shall not be named criminals is disrespectful.
Last edited by theTrashcanMan; January 10th, 2012 at 03:48 AM.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theTrashcanMan
In this post
I realize that I'm being kinda picky, in reality I know that this isn't a huge deal, but I don't like being called a criminal. This is a great site, mostly because both the members and the staff are friendly and helpful. The owner(s) can run the site however they choose and make whatever rules they deem fit(I'm a big private property rights fan, even if it does affect me negatively) but I also believe that a business should appreciate and respect its customers. We are the customers, and calling me and all the other users of the feature that shall not be named criminals is disrespectful.
I was not calling anyone a criminal. I do apologize if that is how my post came of to you. My biggest point about the decision of the owners were the legal ramifications that could be taken.
Someone Owns a Home. I go in to their home and kill someone. The owner does nothing but turns his head. The owner will be just as guilty of the act as I am. Which makes him an accessory to a Crime. Which is why I stated I feel like this is part of the reason he wants to no allow that kind of conversation on his site.
I also stated that I have never personally used tethering. Legally or illegally. I have never had a need to. That is not to say that when placed in a position of needing to that I would not legally or other wise.
However nothing in my OP pointed to any group or users and directly called them criminals with exception to Corporations and Government. If you are in one of those two groups its just like a black man being called a criminal. Not all of them are but they still get the tag because of the one's who do.
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Friends, the stated policy in the OP has generated some discussion, but it may better serve the EVO community here if we lock the thread and just move on.
There's more talk on the tethering/carrier issues going on in the Android Lounge and in the various carrier forums. You can even start a new thread there if you want to (I was about to move this to AL, but thought I'd leave it here).
This ATR section is for root info and talk wrt the EVO 4G. Sorry if by putting in this announcement about wireless tethering it has sort of distracted from EVO specific stuff.
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Feedback on Tethering - merged from PSA threads
What about all of the ROM developers on AF who's ROM's include the ability to tether in this way. Are these files going to be pulled and Developers accounts suspended or does this only apply to the users of these ROM's who may post questions and answers about it in most phones all things root sections?
Not trying to be a trouble maker but clarification of this would be nice.
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No.
We are able to keep the ability to do the "hotspot" however we can no longer talk about it or help anyone if they have problems with it. It is up to the user to solve their problems.
PSA About Tethering Discussion here at Android Forums:
It looks like AF's Site Owner and Admin have decided to take a stance on tethering without a plan. We know that we have talked about it, promoted it, and helped people with issues with tethering. However, now we have a new policy in place. We know that some members may not agree with the policy but as a member of AF we have all agreed to follow the Site Rules/Guidelines.
Threads about wireless tethering (sometimes but not always cable/USB tethering) should not include advice which seeks to defeat your carrier/user Terms of Service. Please see your carrier's TOS statement about wireless tethering in our Carriers forums Terms of Service stickies:
I was just wondering... Then doesn't that technically mean that CM7 and any rom that has wifi/usb tethering are against forum rules? Or is it just discussing it?
well i hate to question phases, but we pay for our data. so we should be able to use how we please.
I know... But since VM doesn't support it (even though they will never know) we technically can't... Although it says wirelessly in the TOS I think, and nothing about usb... so... I don't even use it as I have no use for it, but I do find it kind of stupid that a other companies make you pay extra to use your phones capabilities and use your data that you already pay for...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marc12868
I was just wondering... Then doesn't that technically mean that CM7 and any rom that has wifi/usb tethering are against forum rules? Or is it just discussing it?
No, ROMs/mods are fine as long as that isn't their sole (or main) purpose.
Even a discussion about tethering is alright in the intellectual sense (i.e. "I think it is ok", or "I think it is bad") as long as they are respectful. When people get disrespectful/mean about this stuff it will be taken care of by the MODs.
How-to's and discussions where the intent is to circumvent ToS is the main issue. So please avoid those discussions, and link to this if you see someone asking.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggy46
well i hate to question phases, but we pay for our data. so we should be able to use how we please.
This is from Rob the site owner, not from Phases.
You, and I, and whoever else can feel however we please about it (however that is). You can even tether if you feel so inclined. We just need to follow the site rules. Discussion on these forums of how to do so when it goes against the ToS is the issue.
We also agree to a ToS when we agree to pay for that service and it says we can't tether. If anyone can get a different answer in writing from VM that says it is ok, then we can talk about it.
Last edited by agentc13; January 17th, 2012 at 05:17 PM.
You, and I, and whoever else can feel however we please about it (however that is). You can even tether if you feel so inclined. We just need to follow the site rules. Discussion on these forums of how to do so when it goes against the ToS is the issue.
We also agree to a ToS when we agree to pay for that service and it says we can't tether. If anyone can get a different answer in writing from VM that says it is ok, then we can talk about it.
I don't think the ToS say anything directly about tethering... It says no transmitting wirelessly...
Quote:
for the purpose of transmitting wireless data over the network
so technically doesn't that mean that usb tethering is ok and doesn't go against the ToS?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marc12868
I don't think the ToS say anything directly about tethering... It says no transmitting wirelessly... so technically doesn't that mean that usb tethering is ok and doesn't go against the ToS?
Virgin Mobile's official policy about tethering is
Quote:
Specific Terms and Restrictions regarding Data Services
If your plan includes data services, such services are provided solely for purposes of web browsing, messaging, and similar activities. You are responsible for all data activity from and to your mobile phone or device regardless of who initiates the activity. You may not use the data service:... (4) for an activity that connects any device to personal computers (including without limitation, laptops), or other equipment for the purpose of transmitting wireless data over the network (unless customer is using a plan designated for such usage)
Currently Virgin Mobile does not offer any plans that allow tethering. If you need to use your Virgin Mobile service for mobile internet please sign up for a Broadband2Go plan and purchase the appropriate device at the following link Broadband2Go - 3G Mobile Broadband Service | Virgin Mobile
I am not sure where the line is, I will bring it up and let you know. I do see where you have that question since it specifies "wireless".
EDIT: Some folks who know things better than myself will be popping by to help clarify things for you, be patient.
Last edited by agentc13; January 17th, 2012 at 05:36 PM.
I don't think the ToS say anything directly about tethering... It says no transmitting wirelessly...
Quote:
for the purpose of transmitting wireless data over the network
so technically doesn't that mean that usb tethering is ok and doesn't go against the ToS?
I believe the part of the the ToS that you are quoting is not referring to how you are sharing the data but instead that it is wireless data between the phone and the carrier. The ToS reads
Quote:
You may not use the data service:... (4) for an activity that connects any device to personal computers (including without limitation, laptops), or other equipment for the purpose of transmitting wireless data over the network (unless customer is using a plan designated for such usage)
There is no specification that the connection between the phone and the device it is connected to must be a wireless connection. It states they can not be connected at all to specifically tether regardless of the method used.
You, and I, and whoever else can feel however we please about it (however that is). You can even tether if you feel so inclined. We just need to follow the site rules. Discussion on these forums of how to do so when it goes against the ToS is the issue.
We also agree to a ToS when we agree to pay for that service and it says we can't tether. If anyone can get a different answer in writing from VM that says it is ok, then we can talk about it.
oh i thought phases owned the site... and i completely understand why they are doing it. i was just stating what i believed.
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I believe the part of the the ToS that you are quoting is not referring to how you are sharing the data but instead that it is wireless data between the phone and the carrier. The ToS reads There is no specification that the connection between the phone and the device it is connected to must be a wireless connection. It states they can not be connected at all to specifically tether regardless of the method used.
Oh... they really should make their ToS better where it doesn't confuse people like that... I don't really care just wondering...
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Also, I posted this as a friendly FYI. Just wanted to inform everyone as I have noticed stuff about it here and there.
I can help answer questions about this (If I have them) :what:, but I am not enforcing this (that's for those nice red MODs) or trying to shove rules down anyone's throat. Just didn't want people blindsided about it.
If people feel so obligated or feel the need to talk about tethering so bad as to dispute the rules the site owner has put in place to keep his site from having legal issues, just start a forum dedicated to the Triumph and run it as you please. There's no need to complain and argue the fact, just deal with it.
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If people feel so obligated or feel the need to talk about tethering so bad as to dispute the rules the site owner has put in place to keep his site from having legal issues, just start a forum dedicated to the Triumph and run it as you please. There's no need to complain and argue the fact, just deal with it.
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You guys pay for service/data for your phone, not for internet for your computer; that's what high-speed(or normal speed) internet is for. Your mobile service and data is for your mobile phone, not meant for your laptops; and you wonder why VM is going to start throttling (people to cheap to buy real internet) their data service after 2GB in the near future, because normal users don't tether and most of the time don't go past 2GB. Normal heavy usage for a whole month isn't supposed to go past 2GB, unless downloading a big game package(GTA3, Gameloft, etc) which is recommend to be downloaded over WiFi, and if downloaded over 3G, should be limited meaning only download a certain amount of bigger-size games a number of times a month. You guys have to think of other people, when you tether as your main source of internet your slowing down the data speeds for everyone. I remember when I had Intercept, and I could promise you that the internet speeds was faster back then, even though the Triumph and Optimus V are EvDo A and can take more data than the Intercept. When new customers come in because of the new phones and the data speeds drop a little, that's normal, but the big data speed drop is because of everyone tethering compared to when the best phone VM had was a Intercept. Rooting is risking your device's safety and reliability, and VM don't want you to do it because when you return a device to them and it's because of rooting they are normally losing money, and that is not fair; but tethering is a whole bigger case/problem, your completely abusing there niceness of giving us unlimited data, and that's why most companies charge higher for unlimited data while still throttling you, plus they are more active when looking for people who throttle.
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You guys pay for service/data for your phone, not for internet for your computer; that's what high-speed(or normal speed) internet is for. Your mobile service and data is for your mobile phone, not meant for your laptops; and you wonder why VM is going to start throttling (people to cheap to buy real internet) their data service after 2GB in the near future, because normal users don't tether and most of the time don't go past 2GB. Normal heavy usage for a whole month isn't supposed to go past 2GB, unless downloading a big game package(GTA3, Gameloft, etc) which is recommend to be downloaded over WiFi, and if downloaded over 3G, should be limited meaning only download a certain amount of bigger-size games a number of times a month. You guys have to think of other people, when you tether as your main source of internet your slowing down the data speeds for everyone. I remember when I had Intercept, and I could promise you that the internet speeds was faster back then, even though the Triumph and Optimus V are EvDo A and can take more data than the Intercept. When new customers come in because of the new phones and the data speeds drop a little, that's normal, but the big data speed drop is because of everyone tethering compared to when the best phone VM had was a Intercept. Rooting is risking your device's safety and reliability, and VM don't want you to do it because when you return a device to them and it's because of rooting they are normally losing money, and that is not fair; but tethering is a whole bigger case/problem, your completely abusing there niceness of giving us unlimited data, and that's why most companies charge higher for unlimited data while still throttling you, plus they are more active when looking for people who throttle.
True... Maybe when they start throttling my speeds will be decent... I don't tether and have no need to and even in my area my speeds are slow so it wouldn't even matter... I can understand all of what your saying and haven't even thought about all that... Hmm thanks for that.
Edit: Also back when I had the Rumor Touch and that was their best phone my speeds still sucked :/
Last edited by marc12868; January 17th, 2012 at 10:57 PM.
Feedback on Tethering - merged from PSA threads
its nice to know that cell phone company's can rape us,but when we take a tiny little bit back from them,WERE THE THIEVES! ! I don't even use it anyways. Just figured I'd add in my 2cents. Lol
and i completely understand why they are doing it. i was just stating what i believed. 
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