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Old November 21st, 2012, 02:50 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default pesky watering holes... can they go?

I know people like them and that they are typical lounge material but they annoy the hell out of me to the point I have stopped visiting the lounge as its clogged up with what I can only describe as pointless crap.

I see no need to talk generally about anything in a thread specific to the phone I have. ...and they are ever increasing in numbers too.

Now I'm not suggesting they are banned or deleted but can they PLEASE be moved to a handy lounge subforum that I can easily avoid instead of having to avoid multiple threads in the lounge which is becoming increasingly more difficult.

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Old November 21st, 2012, 02:57 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I think this may have come up before... not sure what the answer was though!
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Old November 21st, 2012, 03:00 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I think it was no, but I'm having another go...
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Old November 21st, 2012, 03:05 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I know this has been discussed before. The consensus last time was that most would fall out of favor and fall down the list in due time. Not saying the consensus will stay the same this time. The successful ones (GS3, GNex, Dinc) will live on wherever they go, so I am neutral on this.
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Old November 21st, 2012, 03:09 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 12:39 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I'm not sure in this area or how our policy got this way.

What's the harm in one off-topic thread per device, letting birds of a feather flock together?

Seems to me that folks that helped one another through rough patches with their devices ought to be able to pal around together once they're past the troubles and questions, yeah?

Every pre-release period has a Lounge-like thread, why move the party?
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 03:17 AM   #7 (permalink)
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My suggestion is to move the threads to an area specifically for watering holes within the lounge, then they can still pal around as much as they like.

There's no harm them paling around as much as I see it as pointless. The harm comes when there are loads of these threads clogging up the lounge, making the lounge less enjoyable. I did feel post 1 covered this adequately.

You raise another point, thank you. Yeah - pre release stuff. These too should go. They should be tidied into the new device forums. Another way of spoiling the lounge.
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 03:51 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I can see why people like to have a place to chat off topic with people they get friendly with in their phone sections, but there are so many of them now. I think the rationale given before for putting them in the lounge was to get people out of their phone sections and have them participate more in the site, but since they are segregating themselves this way anyway, I don't see why they can't just have a lounge thread within their phone sub forum.

Well, having them in the lounge does allow people without that device to participate easier if they want to, so there's that I guess.
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 05:28 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Yes lounge threads within their device would be good too.
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 06:02 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SUroot View Post
Yes lounge threads within their device would be good too.
Ok, I left off a word in my earlier post but that's exactly what I was proposing. One off-topic thread in each device forum.

And pre-release threads are already in their device forums.
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 07:35 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Ah ok. Sorry I thought you meant why move the party from where they are now, ie the lounge.
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 11:56 AM   #12 (permalink)
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The device-specific forums have always been kept clean of 'off-topic' chatter i.e. topics unrelated to the device(s) themselves. They have never been social hubs, and I'm vehemently against encouraging them to be so now.

The Lounge and its subs is the correct place for all non-Android chitchat. It could be argued that designated "watering hole" threads are unnecessary when members could simply create their own topics as desired, but the decision was made. It was by no means a universally popular one, but Gmash is correct - the intention was to encourage members to venture out into the wider AF community.
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 12:10 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Then my initial request of a wateringhole sub would still fit that criteria. As long as they're not in the main part of the lounge, I don't really care where they go.
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 03:30 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I'm an active member in three Watering holes, and a member of quite a few dead ones. And for the most part I don't own the devices that the watering hole is designated for. So long as they aren't exclusive clubs, I see no problem with them. I also agree with Slug that they do not belong in the device forums. In the GNex watering hole we once spent several hundread posts discussing pulled pork. These threads, like many of the lounge threads, foster the community spirit that pervades and drives AF. If the watering holes are always at the top of the Lounge, there is a reason, the members like them. The ones that don't get a following don't get posted in and fall into the land of misfit threads.

I like the Watering Holes and I like them right where they are.
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 05:03 PM   #15 (permalink)
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What was wrong with having a pulled pork thread?


Lounge within a lounge makes no sense.

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Old December 3rd, 2012, 01:03 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Old December 4th, 2012, 01:12 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SUroot View Post
Now I'm not suggesting they are banned or deleted but can they PLEASE be moved to a handy lounge subforum that I can easily avoid instead of having to avoid multiple threads in the lounge which is becoming increasingly more difficult.
COmpletely agree (more on this later)

Quote:
Originally Posted by EarlyMon View Post
I'm not sure in this area or how our policy got this way.

What's the harm in one off-topic thread per device, letting birds of a feather flock together?

Seems to me that folks that helped one another through rough patches with their devices ought to be able to pal around together once they're past the troubles and questions, yeah?

Every pre-release period has a Lounge-like thread, why move the party?
My issue is it seems like half of the first page of the lounge is 'watering hole' threads. IMO just create a 'Device Watering hole' sub forum in lounge. Yes there wont be many threads in there but to many they are an eye sore in the lounge

Quote:
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Yes lounge threads within their device would be good too.
That's where they started long ago. Word came down from Admin/Owner to move them out of device sections so as not to promote 'segregation' or 'clique' from forming.

There was several who were against this but eventually me (and others) came to agree that they don't really belong on the device sections.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EarlyMon View Post
And pre-release threads are already in their device forums.
I see that as being similar to how we close those threads once the device is released. Once device is released its all business in the device section, which is why the 'Lounge' thread gets moved to lounge.

I don't inherently disagree with this but when we start getting 10+ watering holes that are active it really does beg the question, do they need there own section

I think they do...

They people who post in them will still post in them. The only downfall I can see is that those threads will of course be a bit more secluded, less random users will find them and 'connect' with other users discussing whatever phone....
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Old December 4th, 2012, 01:24 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I'd rather they go than get a subforum.

We have how many devices? How many watering holes with the same posters, mostly staff?

Watering hole type threads have come and gone, once people got used to the Lounge. The big epic release threads almost never die.

And we already have a venue for groups wanting to buddy up and talk about whatever - it's called Social Groups.
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Old December 4th, 2012, 02:13 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EarlyMon View Post
Ok, I left off a word in my earlier post but that's exactly what I was proposing. One off-topic thread in each device forum.

And pre-release threads are already in their device forums.
I would much rather see this than all the watering hole threads in the lounge. Keep it in the device forum if its meant to foster device community relationships.
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Old December 4th, 2012, 08:23 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I think the sub forum idea would work best, because of the favorite forums/unread posts feature. You could favorite the watering hole sub if you wanted to see them, otherwise they would be out of the way.
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Old December 6th, 2012, 01:34 PM   #21 (permalink)
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So I think we need to work out what they are trying to achieve, whether it needs achieving and how best else to achieve it without flooding the lounge "general" area with watering holes.

Personally I feel the lounge is well known. Any off topic threads are moved here with links. This draws out device people into the community. There seems to be no need for them. Perhaps they can just go?
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Old December 15th, 2012, 05:56 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Anyone delete my bump?

Phases, would love your input on this one please
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Old December 16th, 2012, 12:38 PM   #23 (permalink)
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(sorry if this post is all over the place, things are coming to mind as I type and I'm just throwing them in somewhere)

The real problem here is that there are probably 4 very viable ways to handle this, and no particular one is the clear winner for the community.

1. Kill them off.
2. Leave in lounge
3. Move to device forums, as one OT thread that users can BS in.
4. A subforum for the lounge.

There are pros and cons for each. One of the main cons that come to mind for me for 2-4 is that they foster a communication medium that is secluded to that thread, unless mod intervene. I mean, you have 20 users BSing in a thread and one discovers something cool. What do they do? They post it on the thread to tell all their friends, rather than create a new thread in the forum.

On the other hand, the users want these things. Or they wouldn't have them.

I'm not totally opposed to any solution personally. I'm fine with all four. Although, I DO see that as more and more sub-communities adopt the watering hole idea the lounge could eventually be nothing but that. It doesn't take but one reply to put it back on page one. We have hundreds and hundreds of devices. Soon, the lounge will be nothing but watering hole threads, potentially. And what do we do when we see this scenario in almost any case?

We make a forum or subforum.

At the same time - there really aren't that many in there, I can't imaging it being a huge huge pain now, potentially ever.

The idea was to encourage people leave their respective sub communities. Do we have any proof though that this is really working other than to get to just these watering hole threads?

So here's the thing. If I need to be the one to decide something, fine by me. I will. However if Early or someone would like to poll the community, with a sticky in the lounge, and a post in the main watering hole threads - all pointing to a poll -that's fine too. If we feel the voters would look past just the immediate desire of them personally and consider what would also be best for the site..

Or, if people are comfortable figuring it out here, fine.
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Old December 16th, 2012, 01:00 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I'm personally happy for you to make the decision. So long as it's not 2

Unfortunately I don't see a poll going my way but if the rest of the contributers in this thread recommend one, that's ok.
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Old December 16th, 2012, 02:11 PM   #25 (permalink)
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IMO, 3 (or 4) is the way to go. I agree that the lounge, as it sits right now, is too cluttered with Watering Hole threads. There are too many devices for the Lounge to be cluttered with these.

IMO, it would help keep off topic out of the device forums and yet still allow it in the device forums.

Option 3, IMO, is the BEST option available.
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Old December 16th, 2012, 04:25 PM   #26 (permalink)
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I like 3 as well
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Old December 16th, 2012, 05:20 PM   #27 (permalink)
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For modding, having them clustered is easier, plus I think others were right, I was wrong on putting them in device threads.

Example, we've had some things break out that ought to have gone to the PCA. Another example - we have our hands full convincing people that arguing about Apple doesn't belong in device threads.

People come looking for support first and foremost in device threads. They should stay that way, with the obvious exceptions of pre-release threads, those belong there and can't help but get a little Lounge-y while people get anxious waiting.

And I think there's ample evidence that they do work to get people out and about in the forums. For example, the GNex'ers hated going to the Lounge first and that really introduced them to being ok with other parts of the site.

And we're all adults. A little off-topic here and there in device threads has always been ok - just no hijacking allowed.

I'm for option 4, a Lounge subforum.

Rather than a poll, I'd prefer a top-down decision from Phases.

Question - if we do that, would we remove social groups?

Social groups were the original watering holes, after all.

And on that note, if we went that way, could we call the subforum Social Groups? Please. (And the Social Groups could move up there. Although - that could be too much profile work, not sure. )
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Old December 16th, 2012, 05:29 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EarlyMon View Post
Question - if we do that, would we remove social groups?

Social groups were the original watering holes, after all.
The social groups is, I think, a little confusing... had not really been in there before today and there seem to be quite a few who post in there and have no other posts... as if they post and then, when they don't get an answer, don't come back.

Quote:
And on that note, if we went that way, could we call the subforum Social Groups? Please.
That sounds perfect, after all, it's what they are
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Old December 16th, 2012, 07:16 PM   #29 (permalink)
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I like 4.

And I would also like to see the social group feature nuked from orbit (although we could in theory move the posts elsewhere), as it is mainly populated by spam and unseen/unanswered questions.
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Old December 17th, 2012, 10:58 AM   #30 (permalink)
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I like number 4 as well. It keeps the line clear on where off topic chatter belongs. Option 3 really blurs this. As far as social groups, I don't use them. Are their even any active ones?
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Old December 17th, 2012, 11:19 AM   #31 (permalink)
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I like number 4 as well. It keeps the line clear on where off topic chatter belongs. Option 3 really blurs this. As far as social groups, I don't use them. Are their even any active ones?
Yes there are 4 I think now with the latest note 2 one... then there's the broader "root club" (which early has pidgeon holed elsewhere) and tablet tavern...

Some die, some don't but they're slowly on the increase
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Old December 17th, 2012, 11:42 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Yes there are 4 I think now with the latest note 2 one... then there's the broader "root club" (which early has pidgeon holed elsewhere) and tablet tavern...

Some die, some don't but they're slowly on the increase
There is a Tablet Tavern social group? I know the watering hole, but not the social group.
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Old December 17th, 2012, 12:13 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Sorry, I'm talking about watering holes. Misread your post.

No idea what these social groups are.
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Old December 17th, 2012, 01:16 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Sorry, I'm talking about watering holes. Misread your post.

No idea what these social groups are.
Complete separate subforum structure.

Check my profile, I am a non-active member of two of them.

Been here a while.
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Old December 17th, 2012, 01:33 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Ah yeah I see. Thanks.

Sometimes I feel this place is a little too over complicated and too hard to get around.
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Old December 17th, 2012, 01:39 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Social groups are complicated, agree.
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Old December 17th, 2012, 01:47 PM   #37 (permalink)
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I just checked the Boston social group I'm a member of (which I must have joined at some point) and it is a wasteland. As I said earlier, I'm all for getting rid of these altogether. I never saw the point of them, and they seem to induce what we have mentioned as a potential negative we have discussed here, being a clicque. You need to join them to participate, where at least the watering holes anyone can post in like any other thread.
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Old December 17th, 2012, 02:12 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Social groups used to be very active.

Had people used them when suggested often, they wouldn't be a wasteland and we wouldn't have watering holes. Hence my earlier suggestion to move the watering holes there, because we've always had a forum structure for the whole idea of coffee klatches.

And anyone could join a social group. The idea that watering holes are not cliquish is something that I find odd.

Have to hear from Phases if they're untouchable, because of profile linking.

If we can consolidate them, maybe we'll have re-invented a better wheel. For now.
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Old December 17th, 2012, 02:54 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Or if we don't ditch social groups altogether, we could at least prune them. Perhaps remove any of them that are small, inactive over a specific period of time, or ones that meet both of those requirements.
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Old December 17th, 2012, 04:35 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Or if we don't ditch social groups altogether, we could at least prune them. Perhaps remove any of them that are small, inactive over a specific period of time, or ones that meet both of those requirements.
I say ditch individual social groups if no one has posted in it in over a year & move what's left & the watering holes, taverns, lounges etc. to a subgroup within the lounge as discussed here. So if they are moved to a subgroup, what do you name the subgroup ?
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Old December 17th, 2012, 07:16 PM   #41 (permalink)
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I don't really see harm in these Watering holes. Suppose we could remove ones over inactivity, but it makes me think what will the member think? They could think that their thread wasn't good enough and got deleted. I think perhaps social groups could be a nice touch though.
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Old December 18th, 2012, 01:40 AM   #42 (permalink)
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I don't really see harm in these Watering holes. Suppose we could remove ones over inactivity, but it makes me think what will the member think? They could think that their thread wasn't good enough and got deleted. I think perhaps social groups could be a nice touch though.
People would need to be informed by the announcements
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Old December 18th, 2012, 04:17 AM   #43 (permalink)
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If they're inactive they fall down the list and don't get in the way anyway. It's the active ones that are annoying people by clogging up the lounge lol.
The social clubs are already there, just nobody knows about them.
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Old December 24th, 2012, 09:03 AM   #44 (permalink)
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I don't know, I don't know what I'd like to do here. It just seems silly, the whole debate. Why are there even watering holes at all? I understand pre-release when there is very minimal to talk about but, I dunno.

I can't commit to anything on this quite yet, and since there are only four in the lounge I'm not considering it super pressing, yet..
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Old December 24th, 2012, 09:20 AM   #45 (permalink)
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If it starts to become a big issue, I'd go for moving them to a subforum in the lounge as to me, this seems like a logical choice
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Old January 29th, 2013, 09:34 PM   #46 (permalink)
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I think that if users of a particular device want to have a watering hole then it would be better to have them within the forum for that device, because then it allows new members and owners of that device to join in. If the watering hole is in the Lounge or a sub forum of the lounge, new members would not know of its existence, and they would therefore not be encouraged to explore outside of their device forum anyway.

However, I'm only here because of EarlyMon's link from a new S2 users' off-topic thread recently moved to the Lounge, where the guys wanted to remain inside their "All Things Root" subforum, and he invited them here to join the discussion. Now because this was a short thread with not too many posts, I thought I'd take a look at it, and became quite interested in their plight. They seem like a nice bunch of guys who enjoy hanging out together, with a real sense of mutual appreciation which was actually touching.

The thing is, although there is currently a "Moved" post within the original forum pointing to the new location in the Lounge, this will soon disappear and new users will not know about its ever existing. Also, a problem I see with moving off topic watering holes to the Lounge or a sub-forum of the Lounge is that the frequenters of those watering holes will no longer be reading their original device forums because they will be looking in the Lounge for the latest post to the thread. If the thread was within its original device forum, those members would also see other threads in the forum and possibly reply to them, or read some device-specific news they would not otherwise hear of. In essence, they would be less isolated from their larger community of same-device users. With sequestered or remote watering hole threads, users with device experience are being removed from the very forums in which they would be an invaluable resource to other users in need of help - particularly in the case of the "All Things Root" crew mentioned earlier.

If all the S2 rooting veterans are off in the Lounge or Social Group chatting away, who is going to help some desperate noob who's just sent his S2 into a bootloop?

Now one argument is that I would never have likely known their existence if the thread weren't in the Lounge, but I would probably not have read the thread if it had not been a new one. I have little inclination to try butting into some 1000-post thread frequented by people who have got to know each other and at least have their device in common, and so I don't feel those watering holes being in the Lounge is going to lessen the segregation and clique-making that is inevitable in any community.

So, if you haven't already guessed, my choice would be option 3
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Old January 30th, 2013, 03:07 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Default Re: pesky watering holes... can they go?

Maybe create a sub-forum in the lounge for the ones that are constantly being posted in. I.e s3 watering hole ,gnex, tablet tavern, etc.

This way they wont be always at the top on the lounge thread list. I really think that they cannot be done away with though ad many users enjoy being able to chat and catch up in these threads including myself and it would be a real deterent if they were done away with.
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Old January 31st, 2013, 05:24 AM   #48 (permalink)
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TBH I feel I've come to this discussion late and I still regard myself as a bit of a newbie, both to the world of Phandroid and Android in general. I think we need one of the four options and that option sticking to. If it takes an open poll to run for a while to make the decision, great. In the event of a "dead poll" admin and the site owner should make a decision. In my opinion that's the only way to make it democratic and fair. Democracies need rules and leaders or they're just talking shops where nothing gets acted upon.

My preferred option would be 3 - a BS sticky thread in each devices sub forum. With a clear one post announcement in the lounge that a BS general watering hole threads are there and are just that.

Thats my input. I realise 3 could be difficult to mod, but there you go. I've had my say.
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Old January 31st, 2013, 09:26 AM   #49 (permalink)
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Default Re: pesky watering holes... can they go?

One 'Watering Hole' thread per device, stickied in the *edit* primary forum of each device.

Most people don't step outside of their device forum, so it makes no sense to place a thread involving these people elsewhere.

I could go on but it all seems a bit silly really....
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Old January 31st, 2013, 09:45 AM   #50 (permalink)
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Default Re: pesky watering holes... can they go?

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One 'Watering Hole' thread per device, stickied in the root forum of each device.

Most people don't step outside of their device forum, so it makes no sense to place a thread involving these people elsewhere.

I could go on but it all seems a bit silly really....
So only rooted users get to discover the off-topic thread?
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