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Old June 3rd, 2013, 11:50 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default split forums 9505 and 9500

I know the root sections have been spilt up which is great,I don't know if it needs another section added there or just in the general forum but certainly root section I think needs another addition! Maybe I'm just biased but in the international root I'm seeing both variants being discussed while there are 4 carriers separate?!

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Old June 3rd, 2013, 11:58 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Not sure, sntaylor.. so I placed your thread here in the Suggestion Box and Feedback area where Admins and concerned citizens who frequent this area can give opinions.. take action or be annoyed.

Besides, I do know that they like kitties in here.
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Old June 3rd, 2013, 12:01 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Lol forgot there was a suggestions section,I just wanted to put it somewhere relevant and where it'd be seen! Lol

just helps save from confusion, especially when the American carrier phones will be able to use the same Roms! The only split on xda is 9505 and 9500!

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Old June 3rd, 2013, 12:32 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Its probably not a bad idea splitting them someway since they have different chipsets and cpu's.

Yes, its looking like all US carriers can interchange roms. Just may have to use a different kernel. I've seen US phones even running the i9505 roms. However, the i9500 roms might brick a US phone. And I think there are variations in rooting them all.
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Old June 3rd, 2013, 12:45 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Think you could be right on those :-) I know there are/will be plenty similarities, might even be worthwhile having one root section and further sub forums for the device specific queries?

I just don't understand why Samsung have to release so many variations of the same device!
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Old June 3rd, 2013, 02:59 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Another issue is that people(sorry but it is generally Americans) call the 9500 the international version, when the reality is most people who would be classed as the international device, are on the 9505 instead!

not huge issues right now, but will cause problems later in time when more users start coming here/rooting them!
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Old June 3rd, 2013, 03:43 PM   #7 (permalink)
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YES, please split them (or at least require a prefix indicating which version they have).

There are some obvious similarities but there are also some SIGNIFICANT differences.
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Old June 4th, 2013, 01:53 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Ok - long day, long story lol and I get easily confused so - please make sure I understand:

Where we now have one:

(International) Galaxy S4 - All Things Root

We need:

(International - i9500) Galaxy S4 - All Things Root
(International - i9505) Galaxy S4 - All Things Root

Yes?
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Old June 4th, 2013, 02:00 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Negative. Root sections are fine as is. Think more like the old Hero section(s). That is, completely separate forums for the two build versions.
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Old June 4th, 2013, 02:02 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by EarlyMon View Post
Ok - long day, long story lol and I get easily confused so - please make sure I understand:

Where we now have one:

(International) Galaxy S4 - All Things Root

We need:

(International - i9500) Galaxy S4 - All Things Root
(International - i9505) Galaxy S4 - All Things Root

Yes?
They need separate forums. And I don't blame them:

Samsung I9500 Galaxy S4 vs Samsung I9505 Galaxy S4: Double or nothing - GSMArena.com
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Old June 4th, 2013, 03:28 PM   #11 (permalink)
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That sorted itself for the SGS3 and HTC One X last year and those had separate builds.

I've gotten several PMs requesting separate forums here because the issues are separate - citing a thread that only affects the 9500 and within hours, someone is posting that the 9505 has the same trouble - and vice versa.

And we learned from the SGS2 that people either don't respect which model forum they belong in or they cross-post.

Why is this separation really needed?

What is different about general non-root support that was not the same discussion as last year?

Aside from rooting and synthetic benchmarks, how is "where are my pictures?" any different because of the motherboards??
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Old June 4th, 2013, 03:39 PM   #12 (permalink)
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There are some similarities across both but let's not kid ourselves that without some way to differentiate the International GSM, USA GSM and USA CDMA that somehow and someway someone is going to screw up their phone big-time. As I mentioned above, even a mandatory prefix would suffice.

As it did right now, we (and you) are losing members due to the misinformation that's being spewed from all of us trying to help others when a simple fix/change could resolve it.
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Old June 4th, 2013, 03:43 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelmar View Post
There are some similarities across both but let's not kid ourselves that without some way to differentiate the International GSM, USA GSM and USA CDMA that somehow and someway someone is going to screw up their phone big-time. As I mentioned above, even a mandatory prefix would suffice.

As it did right now, we (and you) are losing members due to the misinformation that's being spewed from all of us trying to help others when a simple fix/change could resolve it.
Please cite a non root related example, thanks.
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Old June 4th, 2013, 03:58 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Will do when home.
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Old June 4th, 2013, 05:14 PM   #15 (permalink)
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How many examples do you want? How in depth? Generic or specific?
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Old June 4th, 2013, 05:25 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelmar View Post
How many examples do you want? How in depth? Generic or specific?
I know you're asking EM, Kelmar my friend.

I've been looking for the differences (posted a link that had more fluff than what I'd call "user needed info as applied to forum queried issues" or some such ).

I can't find much.. the core ("octa" blah..) stuff seems roughly relevant in the user's atmosphere (or rather to the user in the right country). But will those users need completely different forums here?

The idea of split root subs is beginning to seem the lean, imo.

But I'm only saying this while knowing that you both have more knowledge about that device's two "international" flavors than I do. Just trying to find stuff to make all this more info laden than it is now.. you guys will get it there.
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Old June 4th, 2013, 05:39 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Like I said, I'm cool with prefixes to indicate which model they have so that way EVERYONE can help.

There are the physical differences like cores, processing power and FM tuners. Also the obvious differences such as CDMA vs GSM and their respective radios and which networks they can "travel" on.

Other software differences can vary from APN settings (see my thread that WITHOUT prefixes could be very problematic if an international user tried and removed their APN without testing it first) which is a non root change. Changing settings through dialers (*#*#4363, etc). As well as carrier related differences (Verizon as an example removed the Wi-Fi toggle and blocking mode).

Or if someone is trying to use Odin ir Kies to update and something goes odd. Trying to update a T-mobile phone in the US would brick a phone if we thought it was international (or vice versa).

IMO, prefixes is the easiest solution... so that ALL of us can assist. My personal second choice is separate forums (but that was the original question of the thread).

A change IS needed, in some way, shape or form to help curb this issue before we do a major fubar.
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Old June 4th, 2013, 05:44 PM   #18 (permalink)
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We have separate forums for the international S3 versions:
Samsung Galaxy S3 (I9300)
Samsung Galaxy S3 4G LTE (International) (I9305)

I'm personally not a fan of them being split for the general forum because in 90% of the non root questions will be the same across the devices. But I do think a separate root forum should be considered.
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Old June 4th, 2013, 06:02 PM   #19 (permalink)
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The SGS3 LTE was one model variation and is not all international SGS3.
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Old June 4th, 2013, 06:26 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EarlyMon View Post
The SGS3 LTE was one model variation and is not all international SGS3.
True, it was a different name. But if I recall correctly, but I could be wrong, wasn't it based off of the I9305?
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Old June 4th, 2013, 06:47 PM   #21 (permalink)
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True, it was a different name. But if I recall correctly, but I could be wrong, wasn't it based off of the I9305?
Don't know offhand. The SGS3 forum was set up and used by quad core international and dual core domestic users.

We made that LTE one because Phandroid called for it.

I guess at this point it's better to focus on the issues being brought up for the SGS4.
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Old June 5th, 2013, 04:14 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Ok, not suggesting or promising here, just asking...

If we had a support subforum and prefixes within it, for each of the two models and both, would that solve things?

I'm not seeing from this feedback that general, tips or accessories are at stake.

Yes, no, other?
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Old June 5th, 2013, 07:23 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I still stand by the prefix option. It'll allow the most people to see the thread and allow the most people to be able to help.
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Old June 6th, 2013, 07:08 AM   #24 (permalink)
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If you go the prefix route, please ensure that it is mandatory when creating a new topic otherwise the majority won't bother.
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Old June 6th, 2013, 07:48 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EarlyMon View Post
Ok, not suggesting or promising here, just asking...

If we had a support subforum and prefixes within it, for each of the two models and both, would that solve things?

I'm not seeing from this feedback that general, tips or accessories are at stake.

Yes, no, other?
A lot of Staff time is spent correcting mistakenly prefixed threads. How will Staffers know if the OP has selected the correct prefix, unless mentioned in the thread somewhere? And which will be the default?
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Old June 15th, 2013, 03:29 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Personal opinion would be to keep the main(non root) forum as is, then under sub root forums have two options. I9505 and I9500.....within each if required have a sub folder again, I feel it'd be nice to have a kind of general root forum for the quad core version as the majority of Roms seem to work regardless if the it's a Sprint model or the international version! Like I say, the xda site only has those two options with the general and theme folders being joint!
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Old June 18th, 2013, 02:46 AM   #27 (permalink)
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I try never to underestimate the human capacity for screwing up. With that in mind and from my experiences over the last two years of compiling Dummies Guides over on the SGSII forum, I would like to propose that the General S4 forum be split between the quad, i9505, and octa, i9500, core phones at least.

My reasoning for this is that the General forum is the first point of contact for most newcomers to the forum. If they can be separated at that stage with perhaps just a simple Galaxy S4 OCTA i9500 and Galaxy S4 QUAD i9505 forums headings then they will at least be in the correct ball park for sub headings for rooting before any damage can be done. Also, as I have already seen in the General Forum, there is confusion as to which models are experiencing which problems, i.e. my post, here. My gut feeling is that we will see more differences between the two models in future.

Having shepherded the newcomers into those two camps, it should then be possible to compile global guides for each model and for experienced posters, giudes and mod's to, hopefully, spot any lost sheep at this very early stage and direct them to the correct forum.

Once in the correct forum they could then see the relevant ATR root forum for their model. This would possibly mean a single ATR forum for the i9505, quad core, and, "possibly", a single ATR for the i9500, octa core, phone although this may need to be split further if there were something other than the kernels that separated the i9500's.

In a nutshell, my plan would be to try and channel posters, noobs, advice into the correct channel from the outset by using the word, "quad", and, "octa", along with, "Galaxy S4", and even the model, "i9500", and, "i9505". Then it allows for general information to be given out and for guides to be written, safe in the knowledge that we are in the right area without the constant need to ask which model they have.

So, it should be possible to have two General forums for the Galaxy S4 and, possibly, just two ATR forums. This would replace the present, IMHO, confusing, single General forum and five ATR forums which appear to be a recipe for future disasters.
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Old June 18th, 2013, 06:00 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Fwiw I believe the prefix route is the best one, default to both but make either an option
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Old June 21st, 2013, 03:42 AM   #29 (permalink)
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It seems that there may be some differences between Roms, at least between international 9505 and T-Mobile USA....so that makes me think the ironass method probably would suit best!
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Old June 21st, 2013, 07:35 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Accessories and Tips and General usage advice - not model dependent. The form factor is the same, as is the overall software.

Neither is all of the Support and Troubleshooting, a lot of that is common, a lot of it is unique.

And another member's feedback was to not split the root sections into two models only.

So the obvious solution still isn't obvious to me anyway.

We got here from the complaints and confusion of separating the Samsung sub-model forums the way we used to do - it wasn't an arbitrary move.

Full separation for a lot of people will mean that one forum may have an answer and the identical question going unanswered in the other.
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Old June 21st, 2013, 07:49 AM   #31 (permalink)
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I'm wondering if having them "side by side" (figuratively) would serve users of both models. That is, a searcher clicking the link for either in the "Android Phones" area (or a link presented to them by a Staffer in Intros or AL, etc) would lead them to a page with a brief, cleverly worded, explanatory "which model please?" so that they could feel like they're in the right place.

The explanation could also be there in both areas as a red fonted spiel right at the top, or where ever. Staff can keep an eye on the area for kind reminders and thread moving.
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Old June 21st, 2013, 08:44 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Still doesn't address our original complaints about all of the common things - cases, wifi issues, whatnot - that got us here, unless I'm misunderstanding your idea.

Which, you know me...
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Old June 21st, 2013, 09:51 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Still doesn't address our original complaints about all of the common things - cases, wifi issues, whatnot - that got us here, unless I'm misunderstanding your idea.

Which, you know me...
Those commonalities would be discussed in both areas but the individual users would be fine with where they are posting, having read the clever spiel upon arrival (Staff is about making members feel right, right? ).

I think the most operative dealio about it is a Staffer or three assigning themselves to those two device areas with an eye toward dupes (same user "making sure" about which one to post in by posting in both, etc).
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Old June 21st, 2013, 10:13 AM   #34 (permalink)
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And when the same "I have problem xyz" is posted by two people half a world apart and only one gets an answer, what then?

Last time that happened we were asked why they had to look in multiple forums for what amounted to the same model, esoterica aside.

ts didn't like this for the Note 2, put up a survey thread for us to consider splitting that into separate forums.

Overwhelming response was to leave as one, citing their experiences that I've presented as the hypothetical above.

The support issues are why I suggested a new structure for that part alone but it didn't gain traction.

And I don't see unanimous consent on the root forums.
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Old June 21st, 2013, 10:28 AM   #35 (permalink)
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IOW - we could leave things exactly as they are and add 9500/9505 specific support subforums.

Common support problems could remain prefixed in the main forum.

Root forums fixes would still be on the table.

Does anyone find that idea worth discussing?

We want to serve the whole community without having to write new forum software. Dual prefixes aren't available.
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Old June 21st, 2013, 10:34 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Another idea that came to me is to have two ATR stickies for the international root forum for organization of root methods, roms, and kernels. It would be important for staff to stay on top of it though to keep them both updated.
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Old June 21st, 2013, 10:54 AM   #37 (permalink)
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IOW - we could leave things exactly as they are and add 9500/9505 specific support subforums.
Maybe just add a subforum for the i9500 since its the one with the different hardware? Or a whole separate forum for the i9500. I think its the only one who's roms will brick the other phones. The i9505 and U.S. S4's all seem to be able to interchange roms.
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Old June 21st, 2013, 11:06 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Maybe just add a subforum for the i9500 since its the one with the different hardware? Or a whole separate forum for the i9500. I think its the only one who's roms will brick the other phones. The i9505 and U.S. S4's all seem to be able to interchange roms.
I'm confused.

I was referring to stock general support.

Are you referring to root?
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Old June 21st, 2013, 11:08 AM   #39 (permalink)
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I'm confused.

I was referring to stock general support.

Are you referring to root?
What I was trying to say was a whole new forum, or subforum, for the i9500 general and root.
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Old June 21st, 2013, 11:27 AM   #40 (permalink)
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I see.

I'll take that as a no on my suggestion.
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Old June 21st, 2013, 11:54 AM   #41 (permalink)
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I see.

I'll take that as a no on my suggestion.
lol .. well no, I just altered you suggestion slightly, like this,


Quote:
Originally Posted by EarlyMon View Post
IOW - we could leave things exactly as they are and add 9500/9505 specific support subforums.
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Old June 21st, 2013, 11:56 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Let's review.

  • We have and value all feedback.
  • Many good ideas have been offered.
  • We have vocal proponents for - and against - completely separate forums for this situation.
    • This thread is not our only feedback.
  • Both sides have merit.
  • Neither solution - existing or make separate forums - will satisfy both sides.
    • The case for separate forums has been made and understood.
    • That case does not address the other side of the coin.
    • Doing nothing does not address the problems and concerns of those wanting separate forums.


  • A compromise solution may work to help with the concerns.
    • Address the real issues.
    • Make the most people possible happy.




Compromise Suggestion 1:

  • One compromise suggested was to implement dual prefixes.
  • Good idea.
  • Our forum software doesn't support that at this time.




Compromise Suggestion 2:

  • Leave main forum as is.
    • Accessories and general advice and tips don't appear to be 9500/9505 specific.
  • Add separate 9500 and 9505-only support subforums.
  • The support prefix will remain in place in the main forum and would be used for support problems applying to both the 9500 and 9505.



Compromise Suggestion 3:
  • Like Suggestion 2.
  • Except just adding one support subforum for the 9500 only.


Other compromise suggestions are most welcome.


~~~~~~


And then discuss root forums after deciding what main forum idea is workable to solve problems making the most people most happy.

  • Unless there's a compelling reason to do this in some other order.
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Old June 21st, 2013, 12:02 PM   #43 (permalink)
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lol .. well no, I just altered you suggestion slightly, like this,
Added to summary above.
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Old June 21st, 2013, 04:29 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Need to add Frisco's idea above, in my mind I totally did but in reality not so much. Sorry buddy!
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Old June 23rd, 2013, 04:40 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EarlyMon View Post
IOW - we could leave things exactly as they are and add 9500/9505 specific support subforums.

Common support problems could remain prefixed in the main forum.

Root forums fixes would still be on the table.

Does anyone find that idea worth discussing?

We want to serve the whole community without having to write new forum software. Dual prefixes aren't available.
I know it's hashed many times now.. thinking and re-thinking (changing my mind ).. but the whole thing of having gone through it previously with another device adds great weight to your summary there, EM, imo.

Let's do it as you say and see if complaints (from non-Staffers ) ensue.

Bet they won't.
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Old June 29th, 2013, 04:49 PM   #46 (permalink)
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I've let this simmer for a few days before replying but my reply will, essentially, be the same.

Please remember that some of us WERE staff and are FULLY aware of the PITA that is is going through and changing prefixes, etc. Us "regular" users are simply making a suggestion that we feel will make the forum a bit easier to 1) navigate and 2) assist users in troubleshooting. It has NOTHING to do with complaining.

No changes made; that's fine, we brought our opinions up. It's not our site, it's not our paycheck... we are simply trying suggest items that we feel would improve the overall user interface with this section of the site.

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Old June 29th, 2013, 05:09 PM   #47 (permalink)
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I've let this simmer for a few days before replying but my reply will, essentially, be the same.

Please remember that some of us WERE staff and are FULLY aware of the PITA that is is going through and changing prefixes, etc. Us "regular" users are simply making a suggestion that we feel will make the forum a bit easier to 1) navigate and 2) assist users in troubleshooting. It has NOTHING to do with complaining.

No changes made; that's fine, we brought our opinions up. It's not our site, it's not our paycheck... we are simply trying suggest items that we feel would improve the overall user interface with this section of the site.

And I'm aware of that.

My understanding of your suggestion requires two parallel prefix sets and we don't have that at the present.

Would my suggestion work in your opinion or do you have another way we can attack this?
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Old June 29th, 2013, 05:57 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Which option are you referring to?
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Old June 29th, 2013, 06:32 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Suggestion 2, above.
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Old June 29th, 2013, 06:37 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Talking Just a side note or three..

Looking around competing Android device forums I'm seeing quite a mix as to how the two S4 versions are being handled: everything from basically two entirely different devices altogether, to one forum named for both (with discussion most often pointing out which version is being referred to wrt the posted issue(s)).

Android Forums is the leader. My "side note" is that those outfits which have the i9500 and the i9505 separated out as two different S4 devices seem to have it best.. it's just so easy to go to your device's area and kick off your thread.

I was analysing the specs again (this isn't just about the Razr and Maxx batteries ). And the prices. There are small but sometimes significant differences in many categories (Samsung I9505 Galaxy S4 vs Samsung I9500 Galaxy S4 - Phone Comparison).

I know it's late in the discussion, but I am really convinced users of those two phones need their own forums here; general areas as well as root.
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