Discussion in 'Politics and Current Affairs' started by Bob Maxey, Dec 14, 2012.
Completely different culture.
Here's something else to consider besides guns.....Drugs.
Guest Post: The Link Between School Shootings and Vet Suicides is Big Pharma not Guns - BlackListedNews.com
No, it makes sense to make it easier for me to get a gun. If there's a break in and the criminal has a gun and i don't.... Well you see where this is going......... And like it has been said before, the criminal more than likely didn't get his /her gun legally. Now how in ANY universe does it make sense to take away guns from me and my neighbor bill when outlaw Joe can get a clip from a variety of places.
Well, the commercials openly state that anti depressants can increase thoughts of suicide and bla bla bla. Really? Who knows what else gets fried in the process. :banghead:
This is an endless cycle. After Virginia Tech News feeds and everyone in these social networks were demanding gun laws or whatever the case was, then a couple days later Virginia Tech was nowhere in their head. It was completely forgotten. Now watch a couple more days pass and this story too will be left in the past and forgotten. As I said, tighter security isn't a solution, it leads to even more gruesome deaths. Gun laws? More guns will be bought illegally or through a friend. In reality, there is no stopping any crime any violence or any wrong doing someone may cause. It's America's fault for what they are allowing to pass and the culture it bestowed upon the people. More situations like this WILL happen and eventually the President is going to call for a forced Sunday (aka catholic church) law to be passed to bring "peace" to America. Don't fall for it.
I just cant wrap my head around the logic behind more gun laws
so what youre saying is that if we make it illegal to murder someone then there will be no murders?
if we make it illegal to rape someone there will be no more rape?
if we make theft illegal there will be no more theft?
as has already been pointed out in this thread..... the same day a monster used a gun at a kindergarten in Connecticut....... a different monster stabbed 22 kindergarteners with knife in china
should we ban all knives?
Chicago has some of the strictest gun control laws in the US..... on the same day there were numerous gun murders in Chicago....
10 shot, including 4 teens, Friday afternoon and night - chicagotribune.com
or heres another that hasnt been mentioned.....
7NEWS - Four people set on fire during assault in North Denver - News Story
we need more fire control laws........ people are being burned by criminals...... I think it should be illegal to obtain fire
or maybe we should start with just the hot fire (like we want to start with autos and handguns)......... ban all hot fire
As a gun owner myself, I think this issue is bring politicized by both sides and there isn't one real answer that will solve it. The bottom.line is that if we as a society can't protect our most vulnerable members ie little kids, then we got big problems! I'm not just referring to this, but in general whether it be molestors who keep getting released, or for that matter their own parents who smoke in the car with their kids, the list goes on and you can include whatever the case may be. I will say while the media is to a certain extent maybe contributing to these types of crimes it makes me so seriously sick to was these comments seating how in the big scheme of things 20 kids isn't that many etc. obviously the people saying dont have kids of their own and if they do that's even worse. Can you really tell me you would say the same thing if it was your kid?
22 stabbed in China...none died. See the difference?
This tragedy is bad enough and the discussion here is important, as it contains viewpoints from many sides of the issues.
Please don't sully it by bypassing the site language filters or stooping to personal attacks.
Thread (slightly) cleaned.
Yeah, people mention other weapons - I'll take being assaulted with a knife and a bat over being shot at any day.
As for guns protecting you - societally, its the opposite. If a burglar comes into my house, he knows I won't start shooting with a semi automatic, so he won't bring a gun. In America one would be a fool to not bring a firearm while committing a crime.
Not to mention the culture of fear created by the possibility that anyone, anyone at all has a gun.
agreed Id rather be killed by stabbing than shooting any day of the week.......... slow painful death is usually better
just took a quick glance via google at some statistics
and granted that most US homicides are by gun (about 68%)....... dont think anyone would be silly enough to argue otherwise
but about 15% are by knife (thats about 2500 people) ...... thats a pretty staggering number....... enough that I think we need some knife control......... you can cut your steaks with a spoon
and more alarmingly ........ about 7% (or about 1200 people) are classified under "personal weapons"......... which includes such things as dildo beatings, tampon suffocations, and strangulation with pantyhose.... all of which clearly need tighter regulations and some banning...... seriously.... 1200 dildo beatings...... thats outrageous
btw I dont think a burglar coming into your house does know not to bring a gun...... since about 40% of homicides in Ireland are through gun useage
Edit: oops..... forgot to add my source
and away from exploiting the issue for political purposes I just read this which has a lot more to do with the problem
this is being falsely attributed to Morgan Freeman via the internet..... he hasnt made any such statements....... but whomever did say this was pretty well spot on (sorry for the running paragraph, its a C&P, I didnt format it that way)
"You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why. It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single victim of Columbine? Disturbed people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody. CNN's article says that if the body count 'holds up,' this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next. You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem. You can help by turning off the news."
This sort of thing is apparently becoming a macabre competition, see how many innocents you can take down with you. If that’s true, it’s certain to get worse and worse and...
OK, so what laws do we need? Put on your thinking cap. I can't see any change that will eliminate these serious crimes. If I want a gun, all I need to do is read the classifieds and buy one. No background checks or paperwork except the work required to hand the seller a stack of hundred dollar bills.
What changes to existing laws would you like to see come to pass?
Personally, I want to see my right to keep and bear fine Italian Stilettos upheld. Preferably of the OTF kind. Pearl scales would be nice.
Understand, the right to keep and bear arms is not just another law that can be changed without lots of effort and lots of work. Amendments to the US Constitution are very hard to implement.
And no politician alive will vote to eliminate the 2nd amendment, I guarantee that. This is a good thing, too. We have a number of basic and fundamental rights and owning arms is one of them.
This is something I hope you know.
Do we limit the number of guns you can legally own? The constitution mentions 'arms' plural not singular. That means we can keep and bear a handgun and a rifle, three shotguns, forty handguns, etc.
People want to change the laws and many seem to think we have too many guns in this country and making guns harder to get solves the problem. Too bad they are clueless.
I am allowed to keep and bear a thousand handguns if I want. Although that would require a thousand holsters and all of those cows would suffer.
As soon as I start buying hundreds of weapons, I become the subject of an investigation.
Many gun laws are a way to further the idea that guns and their owners are evil as well as to foolishly try to stop gun crimes by reducing gun ownership. This is wrong headed thinking.
These laws make no sence to me in most cases. I should be able to walk into a store, hand the clerk my cash and walk out with a gun and 5,000 rounds of ammo. I remember when a kid could walk into a store and purchase a rifle and ammo from the local Wallgreens or Sears. Do any of you remember this? Not sure if you needed parent permission or not.
I'll accept a background check, I'll do that for society. That said, the law should make it manditory that background checks should be as instant as humanly possible or there can be no background checks.
Perhaps what we need are laws against crazy people and leave the guns alone. Being crazy is probably not a constitutional issue but curtailing my right to "keep and bear arms" is in the founding documents.
Every person should be tested. If any are crazy, they must have a red "Wacko" tattoo on their forehead and hats that obscure the tat must be banned as well. This lets us see the crazies among us, problem solved.
Perhaps eliminate private sales of any weapon without a background check and heafty fines and jail time for those that sell guns illegally? If any of you think that is a bad idea, you must also say background checks at the local gun store are a bad idea, too.
Actually, many working professional burglers will NOT carry ANY weapons to their place of work. They know that posession of a deadly weapon while comitting a crime adds years to their sentence if they are caught.
So apprently, you are wrong and only a fool brings a gun to work.
Perhaps the stabber selected a knife because a gun was too difficult to obtain? Perhaps if he had a gun, it would be 34 shot dead in China? Just thinking out loud.
Just thought I'd point this out...
The Volokh Conspiracy
I offer my condolences and support for those affected by this tragedy while they struggle to come to terms with what has happened. As a grand father of three (no children of my own so they are for all practical purposes my kids) I don't know how i would react if this struck home for me, I would probably be a basketcase.
Want to get really angry?
Sandy Hook shooting: Outrage as Westboro Baptist plans praise gathering outside school | Mail Online
Anonymous is after them.
I thought I clearly stated that with all the guns in circulation, no laws would have prevented this tragedy.
Common sense gun laws doesn't mean banning guns. Of course the right wants to make it seem that any restriction = banning guns.
We had the assault weapons ban under Clinton, and the world didn't end.
Register all guns. Have a title for every gun similar to a car title that gets transferred with the gun if sold.
Eliminate the gun show loophole. If they can't manage background checks, shut them down.
Limit magazine sizes.
People like to talk about the second amendment right to bear arms, but they usually leave out the "well regulated militia" part. Anyway, that ship has sailed. We live in a gun culture, there's no going back now. But none of these things would be unconstitutional or overly restrict gun ownership. Again, I realize these wouldn't prevent these tragedies, and it probably doesn't belong in this thread, but I keep getting called out on it.
Those people are scum. There's no other way to say it. Just horrible people.
so what youre saying is that you realize gun laws cant stop anything....... but you still want new gun laws just for the sake of creating them?
what exactly in your mind would be the point of creating any new laws if they cannot prevent anything?
Personally, I don't think any of those things are unreasonable though I know other people on here likely will. I'm not sure how those laws would really make any impact on the problem of gun violence though. The problem is the culture we live in glorifies violence and the gorier the better. No one cares to address that though.
I love violent movies and video games. Never seriously considered killing anybody. Lets hope we don't go down that road again. I'd put the first amendment above the second amendment any day.
All the links on here seem to be of the bad side of guns, here is a link for you to give a read:
14-year-old Phoenix boy shoots, critically wounds armed intruder
What would have happened if the boy didn't get that gun in time? what would have happened if there was no gun at all? That family might have ended up with no more children. But because that boy had responsible parents that taught him well, he acted just as he needed.
I don't know the laws for all states, but in my state I am allowed to shoot anyone that is breaking into my house. Once i see that they are no longer a threat I am to call the police if they had not been before the intrusion.
"No freeman shall be debarred the use of arms." -Thomas Jefferson
"One loves to possess arms, though they hope never to have occasion for them." -Thomas Jefferson
I do love my right to possess the firearms that I have, and I do hope that I never run into the occasion where I have to use them, but I am not scared if I do.
Via boing boing I really like this quote from Roger Ebert when asked by a reporter about the connection of violence in movies and in this case the Columbine massacre: