2.3 Gingerbread

[Jethro10]

That was debunked by Google. The 1ghz requirement is false.

Wow, some misinformation here. First, the 800mhz Snapdragon in the G2 is not faster than the 1ghz Snapdragon in the N1 or similar phones. They're the same CPU, just made on a new fabrication process. If you overclock the G2 to 1ghz, it's just as fast as the 1ghz in the N1. So what are the differences in this new CPU?

-45nm (as opposed to 65nm), meaning it produces less heat and uses much less battery. It also has in theory, more overclocking headroom.

-The SOC (system on a chip), not to be confused with just the CPU, includes the new Adreno 205GPU, which is roughly 2.5X faster than the Adreno 200 that was on the original Snapdragon SOC.

-And now, this is where people say "but Quadrant is higher on the G2." Yes, the total score is, but get the paid version and you'll see the scores for the individual components. The CPU of the G2 is slower than the N1, while the GPU is faster.

And no, it's not a dual core. But they're coming soon!

The smaller fab process of 45nm as opposed to 65nm does infact make a chip quicker.
electricity (electrons) move at a certain speed for a given voltage. If the voltage of the chips are the same, then electrons move 45nm quicker than 65nm as it's a shorter distance.
they may have, however, reduced the voltage to get the same speed for any given Mhz rating, but save power and heat.
So we need to know the voltage of the core as well as the nm measurement to decide.

Jeff

 

[beerhound]

A friend of mine who works for motorola doing some university relations or some crap said that he feels that alot of us may be getting screwed on updates in the future, and that alot of phones will get updates based on their "kill Sheet" and made an excellent point that the longer companies update software to the most current the longer people will wait to buy new phones. Motorola and Samsung do not make money on making your phone last 3 years. Makes sense, and makes me sad

I'll go farther than that. Most customers are on a 2 year contract, how much money do you suppose the maker/carrier wants to spend updating an 18 month old phone when the customer is going to upgrade to a new one in 6 months?

I don't know about the terms on other networks, but Verizon customers are usually eligible for their upgrade at 20 months if they sign another 2 year contract. It took VZ/Moto 4 months from the release of the Froyo SDK until we saw the OTA update for the DX. Many still don't have 2.2 over 6 months later. If we assume that 3 to 6 months is how long it takes to get an OTA, that doesn't leave the carrier much return on investment if they push out an update at the 15 month point and then the customer gets another subsidized phone at the 20 month point.

I fear that your friend is right, we are going to see fewer and fewer phones get OS upgrades (just bug fixes) past the 12 to 15 month point. It just doesn't make economic sense to the carriers and makers to invest in phones that are obsolete and about to be upgraded anyway. I just hope all the makers don't take the path Moto has and make it difficult or impossible to do custom upgrades, at least the community could support people who weren't ready to shell out for a new phone. At this point, I feel like I will get 2.3 for my DX, but I'm not nearly as confident that I will ever see 3.0 on it.

 

[adi19956]

A friend of mine who works for motorola doing some university relations or some crap said that he feels that alot of us may be getting screwed on updates in the future, and that alot of phones will get updates based on their "kill Sheet" and made an excellent point that the longer companies update software to the most current the longer people will wait to buy new phones. Motorola and Samsung do not make money on making your phone last 3 years. Makes sense, and makes me sad

I agree, but they need to do some updates, otherwise people will buy from HTC or others. They need a balance

 

[adi19956]

I'll go farther than that. Most customers are on a 2 year contract, how much money do you suppose the maker/carrier wants to spend updating an 18 month old phone when the customer is going to upgrade to a new one in 6 months?

I don't know about the terms on other networks, but Verizon customers are usually eligible for their upgrade at 20 months if they sign another 2 year contract. It took VZ/Moto 4 months from the release of the Froyo SDK until we saw the OTA update for the DX. Many still don't have 2.2 over 6 months later. If we assume that 3 to 6 months is how long it takes to get an OTA, that doesn't leave the carrier much return on investment if they push out an update at the 15 month point and then the customer gets another subsidized phone at the 20 month point.

I fear that your friend is right, we are going to see fewer and fewer phones get OS upgrades (just bug fixes) past the 12 to 15 month point. It just doesn't make economic sense to the carriers and makers to invest in phones that are obsolete and about to be upgraded anyway. I just hope all the makers don't take the path Moto has and make it difficult or impossible to do custom upgrades, at least the community could support people who weren't ready to shell out for a new phone. At this point, I feel like I will get 2.3 for my DX, but I'm not nearly as confident that I will ever see 3.0 on it.

Google has said that it will soon move to a 1 year update cycle of Android.
Assuming this is true, and assuming most people are on 24 month contracts, it makes sense to do one update and one update only for the phones. It keeps customers happy and it doesn't take up too much of their time and effort.
As well as customers keeping the phone longer, which some may do, it also allows the company, in this case Motorola, to sell the product longer as it has the latest updates.
You should also take into consideration that a lot of new (non-geeky ) Android users don't really care about system updates as they don't really understand them

 

[Medion]

The smaller fab process of 45nm as opposed to 65nm does infact make a chip quicker.
electricity (electrons) move at a certain speed for a given voltage. If the voltage of the chips are the same, then electrons move 45nm quicker than 65nm as it's a shorter distance.
they may have, however, reduced the voltage to get the same speed for any given Mhz rating, but save power and heat.
So we need to know the voltage of the core as well as the nm measurement to decide.

Jeff

Two CPUs using the same core at the same clock rate, even if on a different process, will be so close in performance per clock that the difference cannot be detected outside of a margin of error.

When I'm given information or a theory that disagrees with how I understand, I try to prove the other viewpoint (if you're only trying to prove your own viewpoint, then you'll subconsciously filter the info that only supports your viewpoint). I found nothing that supports your viewpoint. The closest I found was Core 2 Quad processors that were 45nm and doing roughly 5.2% better per clock than the 65nm counterpart. However, these were using different cores and varying amounts of cache, which introduces other variables. I've also seen benchmarks of the 2nd gen Snapdragon overclocked to 1ghz, and it matches up within margin or error to the 1st gen at the same speed.

So if you have any links to support your information, I'd really appreciate seeing them.

 

[shawn1224]

Google has said that it will soon move to a 1 year update cycle of Android.
Assuming this is true, and assuming most people are on 24 month contracts, it makes sense to do one update and one update only for the phones. It keeps customers happy and it doesn't take up too much of their time and effort.
As well as customers keeping the phone longer, which some may do, it also allows the company, in this case Motorola, to sell the product longer as it has the latest updates.
You should also take into consideration that a lot of new (non-geeky ) Android users don't really care about system updates as they don't really understand them

IMO, a 1 yr cycle would be a failure. Google didn't reach the pinnacle of success they've already attained by dishing out yearly updates. They got there by being innovative and spontaneous. So what if people have to upgrade their phones every so often. It gives us variety and choice. Something other manufactures aren't willing to offer. I say if it ain't broke, then why fix it?

 

[Medion]

IMO, a 1 yr cycle would be a failure. Google didn't reach the pinnacle of success they've already attained by dishing out yearly updates. They got there by being innovative and spontaneous. So what if people have to upgrade their phones every so often. It gives us variety and choice. Something other manufactures aren't willing to offer. I say if it ain't broke, then why fix it?

The update cycle is overblown in of itself. Obviously, with fewer devices, it's easier for Apple, but even they don't have an annual update cycle. They release MAJOR releases on an annual basis (1.x, 2.x, etc.). However, they have released more updates than Google in the past year.

Since December 2010, we've seen:

Android: (6 releases)
2.0
2.0.1
2.1
2.2
2.2.1
2.3

iOS: (10 updates)
3.1.3
3.2
3.2.1
3.2.2
4
4.0.1
4.0.2
4.1
4.2
4.2.1

The reason Android's development cycle gets overblown is because of the stance that OEMs choose. Apple has the mantra that "if we continue to support our customer, they will return to us when they want to buy a new product." Android OEMs have the mantra of "if we neglect to support the customer, they will have to buy new products more frequently." Since most people upgrade their smartphones every two years on a carrier contract anyway, the Android OEMs have the WRONG stance. But, because of this stance, they're slower to do updates, if they do them at all. This leads to fragmentation, and the perception that Google is developing the OS too fast for OEMs to keep up.

Google, to their credit, is doing a lot to ensure that updating Android on a device is done quicker, and on more devices. First, they're decoupling apps, so that rather than the OEM update it as part of the OS, the user updates it via the market. Secondly, Google is adding more baked in features to that OEMs don't have to develop around it (IE, better copy/paste, something HTC usually added via Sense). Also, Google is letting carriers/OEMs have a cut of their 30% share on market downloads. Since newer OS improves app compatibility on phones, this is a direct financial incentive for an OEM/carrier to update the OS.

So in summary, the problem with the development cycle isn't Google's pace. It's the shitty mentality of the OEMs. Even I've considered making the switch to an iPhone and just jailbreaking. Root and custom ROMs are the only way to ensure that my phone is supported for my entire 2 year contract, but the carriers and OEMs are trying hard to take that away.

 

[xaero]

they should make it rolling release, like Arch Linux.

 

[jradicle11]

Just for those who still believe non 1ghz CPU phones aren't capable of Gingerbread:

Wrong! Android Team’s Dan Morrill Says No 1GHz Requirement for Gingerbread | Android Phone Fans

 

[adi19956]

So in summary, the problem with the development cycle isn't Google's pace. It's the shitty mentality of the OEMs. Even I've considered making the switch to an iPhone and just jailbreaking. Root and custom ROMs are the only way to ensure that my phone is supported for my entire 2 year contract, but the carriers and OEMs are trying hard to take that away.

I find custom ROMs exciting

 

[wallstreet123456]

I have the original Droid and just received an update this morning. Any Idea what this was for? I thought my phone would not be getting Gingerbread update. (assuming that is what I just received)

 

[Medion]

I have the original Droid and just received an update this morning. Any Idea what this was for? I thought my phone would not be getting Gingerbread update. (assuming that is what I just received)

Probably a maintenance update. If it were Gingerbread, we'd all know about it.

 

[jradicle11]

Its the 2.2.1 update for the motorola droid.

http://androidforums.com/android-news-talk/233161-motorola-droid-2-2-1-update-now-rolling-out.html

 

[Penguissimo]

IMO, a 1 yr cycle would be a failure. Google didn't reach the pinnacle of success they've already attained by dishing out yearly updates. They got there by being innovative and spontaneous. So what if people have to upgrade their phones every so often. It gives us variety and choice. Something other manufactures aren't willing to offer. I say if it ain't broke, then why fix it?

I think this is why they're also talking about supplying updates to system components (Gmail, Maps, etc.) through the Market. That way they can update vital apps without waiting for phone manufacturers and carriers to get off their duffs, and also slow down the major release cycle to keep those same parties happy.

 

[happy0506]

A friend of mine who works for motorola doing some university relations or some crap said that he feels that alot of us may be getting screwed on updates in the future, and that alot of phones will get updates based on their "kill Sheet" and made an excellent point that the longer companies update software to the most current the longer people will wait to buy new phones. Motorola and Samsung do not make money on making your phone last 3 years. Makes sense, and makes me sad

until consumers get sophisticated enough to buy only vanilla android phones, people are going to feel like they were screwed. i wish more phone manufacturers would ditch the overlay software. however, this isn't going to happen until consumers refuse to buy their phones with overlay software.

will probably never happen because the average person buying an android phone goes to the local store, plays with a phone for 5 minutes, listens to the 18 yr old kid who is spouting out a bunch of crap that the marketing people told him to say, the consumer thinks they "researched", and made a good choice.

the old 80/20 rule. 20% really learn about what they're getting and 80% buy whatever is the shiniest.

i'm going to wait for the binford 10,000 with the octa-core chip, overdrive kit, and headers... then i'll plunk down another $500+

 

[Medion]

i'm going to wait for the binford 10,000 with the octa-core chip, overdrive kit, and headers... then i'll plunk down another $500+

fack yea!

 

[maple]

I received the update for 2.3 for the X just now.

 

[Medion]

I received the update for 2.3 for the X just now.

That's not Android 2.3. On the homescreen go to settings --> about phone (bottom of menu) --> Software Information (2nd to last menu) and look at the part that says Android version (top of menu). It will likely be 2.2 or 2.2.1. Motorola is rolling out their 2.2.1 Android updates right now, and their software version happened to be 2.3x, which is causing confusion amongst Droid owners.

My software version is 3.1, but I assure you, I am not running Android 3.1

 

[jradicle11]

I received the update for 2.3 for the X just now.

It's not gingerbread. http://phandroid.com/?p=34762

 

[Viper43]

Its faster than most 1GZ Snapdragon phones (Evo, Droids, HD2)

The G2, technically, has TWO processors, each at 800 MHZ. Its actually 2 cores, and both can be over clocked to 1.6GeeZees.


We can make it stronger, faster, better. We HAVE the technology.

This is off Tmoble's website:
The T-Mobile G2 is rolling out as a Google-experience phone like the G1 did when it became the world's first Android model. The G2 is running stock Android 2.2 powered by Qualcomm MSM 7230 processor at 800MHz.

It has only one processor.

 

[epicDroid]

Would the samsung epic run smoothly with Gingerbread or froyo????

 

[jradicle11]

Would the samsung epic run smoothly with Gingerbread or froyo????

Smoother than it would on 2.1.

http://androidforums.com/samsung-ep...-want-know-about-dk28-froyo-leak-release.html

That would be the place to get your questions about the Epic 4G on froyo answered.

 

[Evo4sickness]

Ok real stupid question but Iam new to Android and just got an Evo two weeks ago and I have not upated to 2.3 only because I have not gotten my question which I asked a couple days back on an other thread on weather or not I would be able to root once I go gingerbread. Iam asking because I know whith each new udate they are allot of behind the scenes restrictions. So can I root once I go gingerbread. And I also wanted a list of great reason since I have herd is just that it will run better and it that much more amazing.

 

[jradicle11]

Ok real stupid question but Iam new to Android and just got an Evo two weeks ago and I have not upated to 2.3 only because I have not gotten my question which I asked a couple days back on an other thread on weather or not I would be able to root once I go gingerbread. Iam asking because I know whith each new udate they are allot of behind the scenes restrictions. So can I root once I go gingerbread. And I also wanted a list of great reason since I have herd is just that it will run better and it that much more amazing.

There is no 2.3 release for the EVO yet. There probably won't be for a while.

 

[Evo4sickness]

H

There is no 2.3 release for the EVO yet. There probably won't be for a while.

I have been getting asked to download 3.30.651.3 since last week to an firmware update which I thought was ginger bread right but I see now its not. The thing is since I have new Evo I have 3.30.651.2 which suposedly already has the fix for the camera for qik. My phone has asked me 4 times to do the update. And again will I be able to root.
Which I have used qik its never rebooted me but it was insaley slow because of qiks overflorwed servers. Now the only reason I want to udate to 3.30.651.3 is because you need it for Clear Sea which is amazing very fast video confrencing app.

But I hear people are having a hard time rooting it so thats my question any one know the answer.