5 Gay Teens commit suicide within a 3 week time frame. Do you give a damn?

[mpw]

I very much believe that you make the choice to be gay. In fact, most people I have ever met that claim to be gay say that it's a lifestyle choice. And in response to the original poster, no I in-fact do not give a damn.

So did you choose to be gay, or choose to be straight? and what made you make the decision either way?

 

[_J.J._]

yes, I did chose, and environment,and how I was raised influenced that choice. In fact, I constantly choose. When I go out trying to get laid, I CHOOSE to go after girls. I start with the skinny ones and work my way up in weight until one goes home with me.

 

[Crude]

There's one thing I can't wrap my head around.....if Vizel is gay then why a seductive lady for avatar? That's like me putting Charlie Sheen in my avatar?

 

[rdub53]

So did you choose to be gay, or choose to be straight? and what made you make the decision either way?

Oh, I very much choose to be straight. I believe that also anyone can be that it's a choice...or how else do you explain the Bi's? And as for what made the decision, I am attracted almost fatally to women. Exclusively.

 

[cjr72]

I remember reading about a study about a test given to minority students. One group was told that they would get special help for the test. The other group was just told to take the test. The group that was told they would get help, that the teachers gave a damn essentially, did worse on the test. Africa and Southeast Asia were both roughly in the same place economically in the '60's. We've given a damn for Africa to the tune billions of dollars of aid since and the continent now lags badly behind Southeast Asia. It seems to me that singling out groups to patronize with special help and declarations of "giving a damn" does a disservice to those groups and often ensures that they will not find their own way out of the hardships they find themselves in.

 

[dark4181]

I remember reading about a study about a test given to minority students. One group was told that they would get special help for the test. The other group was just told to take the test. The group that was told they would get help, that the teachers gave a damn essentially, did worse on the test. Africa and Southeast Asia were both roughly in the same place economically in the '60's. We've given a damn for Africa to the tune billions of dollars of aid since and the continent now lags badly behind Southeast Asia. It seems to me that singling out groups to patronize with special help and declarations of "giving a damn" does a disservice to those groups and often ensures that they will not find their own way out of the hardships they find themselves in.

There's a word for that. It's called dependency. And it's not a good thing.

 

[ElasticNinja]

The problem in Africa is that its all small countries
Easy to exploit.
We may pump in some money but in reality we take more back.

 

[Thefoodman52]

Wait... so because they were all gay, they get special attention and a spot on the news? Yet, if we try calling them out on stuff like that in the open (drawing attention to themselves in general), we get bashed for being discriminators...
What about the socially depressed people that commit suicide every day who aren't gay? Maybe if they just said they were gay before they offed themselves, it would get news attention and suicide could just be looked into instead of a pitty act for the homosexuals...

 

[Frisco]

There are several posts in this thread addressing those sentiments, foodman (I guess I'm feeling too weary of the debate this morning to repeat most of it right now).

 

[pantlesspenguin]

I can't believe no one has pointed this out yet. Most gay kids that commit suicide ARE NOT OPENLY GAY! And there's no way to get an accurate statistic on how many teens who commit suicide are gay or straight because of that.

All teens, gay or straight, are under tons of pressure. For each kid it's different. Some strive to be accepted to the "cool group", some strive to get the best grades so they can get into a good college, some kids try to do well in athletics. You have your band geeks & drama nerds (I was both) who try not to flub a line or miss a note. This is all regular teen stuff.

Now, take all that & add in the things that gay kids face every day, even if they're not out of the closet. Hearing their friends make gay jokes. Hearing their parents make fun of that "***" on TV. Going to church & being told that gay people are sinners & they need to pray the gay away if they want to get into heaven. Hearing political propoganda saying that gay people should not get married or have "special rights" when those rights are things heterosexual couples currently enjoy. It's enough to make a kid feel downright awful...enough to make certain kids think that there's absolutely no hope in being loved by their family, friends, or society because they're gay. They've been made to feel that killing themselves is a "safer" option than coming out of the closet.

That really sucks.

 

[Pryomancer]

Nah, I don't really care. Gay teen suicide is about as significant to me as any other suicide, which in turn is about as significant to me as any number of things I don't care about.

I believe that homosexuality is fine, it isn't a choice, and you shouldn't be treated differently for it. Other than that, gay people are still humans, and I don't really like people that much.

 

[Bob Maxey]

How sad, well if you ever end up having a GLBT child one day, at least your child will know I give a damn, even if you don't. Maybe that will save a life.

Here is the problem, IMHO.

A gay kid kills himself and we hear endless reports about it, with very few details that put things into perspective. For example, so a gay kid kills himself. Perhaps he did so because he was sad and angry and had nobody, like parents, to talk to about the problem. Well obviously he is angry or has mental issues that tell him suicide is the only way out, but there is probably more to it than just being gay.

The poster simply told us that something happened and no sources. Seems to me that there is an agenda here, because an Android mailing list is the last place I expected to see something about this issue.

We hear very little when a straight kid kills himself. No kid should be put into a position where suicide is the only answer. I often wonder if there was something else at work; something like abuse by the parents or others, that is perhaps the real reasons a kid decides to end his or her life.

I think we need to give equal weight to every tragic loss of life, gay or straight. Tough to do with a mostly liberal news media that has decided, in my opinion, that a gay kid killing himself is somehow more important than a straight kid killing himself.

As for the six or so that too their lives, so what? I am betting that the suicide rate for straight kids is higher. Just guessing, so feel free to correct me with links to reliable sources.

Lots of suicides these days. Or, perhaps we simply hear more because we are exposed to a vast amount of data, stories, and statistics.

Bob

 

[Bob Maxey]

I'm sorry, but you are incorrect. Gay teens do have it harder, research shows that. Gay teens are ridiculed more and harassed more, research shows that. Gay teens do have a higher suicide rate, research shows that. Gay people in general are more likely to be victims of hate crime compared to their straight counterparts, again research shows that. People in the GLBT community are more likely to be fired or passed up for certain positions, again research shows that.

Let me guess, someone wants me to provide the research because believing that gays are discriminated against more so than their straight counterparts is so hard to believe.

Yes, yes we do. Well, yes I do, anyway.

If I were to say research shows that 79% of all Android users regret their decision to buy an Android phone and they would much prefer the iPhone because of a better overall user experience and generally superior form and function, Android Forum Readers might want sources. And, it might come as no surprise that they do not want a link to an Apple site or Mac World Magazine Poll, either.

Perhaps you might get your point across if you post a few links or cite the research. Hell, perhaps you are right. Perhaps those GLBT people were fired for being too showy; perhaps they were imbeciles, or perhaps unqualified for the job. Perhaps they were abject morons that thought "hey, I can't be fired because I am gay, and they discovered they could indeed be gotton rid of. It is easy to say you were fired for being gay, and, sadly, there are no shortage of blogs or perhaps main stream web sites that will simply accept it as fact and no research.

Perhaps there is no research and you are trolling? Perhaps your statics are biased or simply lies. I Googled 'teen suicide rate in Utah and was not at all surprised to see rates all over the map. It seems finding the facts can be hard.

Interesting facts unrelated to gay people and their problems: 86% of all federal income taxes are paid by the top 25% of income earners. The top 50% pay 97% of all federal income taxes; the top 1% pay 39%. SOURCE: IRS data for the latest tax year. So much for the idea that the rich do not pay their 'fair share.' And I expect to be told how wrong I am about the facts I cited.

Perhaps I am just too old and pissy and I should shut the hell up. I do feel guilty for raging like this on an Android Forum. Moderators, feel free to tell me to zip it.

Bob

 

[Bob Maxey]

If you've never been a gay teen... then you don't understand what we had to go through. I've been harassed and assaulted to the point of having to be hospitalized back in middle school because I'm gay. I've never heard of anyone being harassed and assaulted because they're straight. It's like saying that you understand what African Americans went through even though you're white or what women went through even though you're a man.

God Dagnabbit (forgive the cussing) I am SICK AND TIRED of being told that just because I am not gay or black or a dame, I cannot possibly understand what it is like for gays, blacks, or dames. And before. you object to the word "Dame" do some research. It is not a bad word.

If a gay boy is stabbed, I know what it is like. It is horrific, terrible, and absolutely unacceptable. If the kid dies, I know what it is like for the parents. it is tragic, sad, and the anguish is understandable.

I have never been seriously hurt, but my best friend lost a close relative in an obscenely horrific incident known as "The Ogden Hi-Fi Shop Murders" Ask Mr. Google about that. I was never raped, stabbed, forced to drink Drano, but God Dammit, I know what it was like for the victims even though I did not experience it myself.

The victims were bloody frightened, scared mindless, put through unimaginable pain, forced to watch their friends drink caustic drain cleaner, had pencils pushed into their brains, and died one by one, rather slowly, over hours and hours of unimaginable terror.

Do you think people need to experience pain before they can begin to understand it? I know gays suffer, I know women are often treated poorly, and I know blacks are often hassled. I know it is terrible because I have a heart and an honest soul that can become outraged without suffering along with the victims.

Everyone involved went through hell and it was as horrible for me as it was for them because we ALL still remember it, and most of us rejoiced over each execution. Thankfully, the last criminal involved is now frying, baking, and smoldering in hell.

Most right thinking adults know exactly what it is like for others to suffer and we do not like it. Most of us hate it in fact and want to see an end to it. Alas, that will never happen.

Pissy Bob!

 

[howetechnical]

I'm sorry, but you are incorrect. Gay teens do have it harder, research shows that. Gay teens are ridiculed more and harassed more, research shows that. Gay teens do have a higher suicide rate, research shows that. Gay people in general are more likely to be victims of hate crime compared to their straight counterparts, again research shows that. People in the GLBT community are more likely to be fired or passed up for certain positions, again research shows that.

Let me guess, someone wants me to provide the research because believing that gays are discriminated against more so than their straight counterparts is so hard to believe.

You're ignorant if you really believe that. Have you ever heard about any other "minorities"? Have you ever visited less fortunate areas of the world and witnessed the hate crimes and ridicule that other nationalities and races recieve? I think you should re-write your position to say, "Gay teens do have it harder [in upper class white populated areas], research has shown that".

Go watch CNN.

 

[howetechnical]

When will people start to realize the fact that being gay isn't a choice?

The medical studies show that there is a gene that does alter one's sexual preference to that of the same sex; this gene is in most mammals. The medical studies also show that by practicing and giving attention to the possibility of being gay, one is actually increasing the strength of this gene in altering their mental sexual preference.

Nobody is "born gay". We are "born with a gene that has the ability of altering our sexual preference if we choose to do so". Those who are gay and gay-er (even gays will agree that there are some who are way gay-er than them...) have first chosen to be as such, thereby increasing the influence of that gene, and ultimately making it "official".

 

[Bob Maxey]

‎"Dear America, when you tell gay Americans that they can't serve their country openly, or marry the person that they love, you're telling that to kids, too. So don't be f***ing shocked, and wonder where all these bullies are coming from that are torturing young kids, and driving them to kill themselves because they're different. They learned it from watching you." -Sarah Silverman

Great Sarah Silverman quote(sic).

As I recall, the citizens of California voted down a gay marriage proposal. So what the estimable Ms. Silverman is upset about is Americans voting against something, which is, apparently, an un-American act, if you vote no? Wow, should that word be hyphenated? Or should i be more caffeinated?

Cranky Bob

 

[howetechnical]

There are several posts in this thread addressing those sentiments, foodman (I guess I'm feeling too weary of the debate this morning to repeat most of it right now).

And every one of those posts (that I saw) bring up the argument, "When was anybody ever bashed for being straight?!?!"

I have a couple friends who are gay, and an in-law family member, and yes, I have been ridiculed for being straight, especially during that time of the year known as the gay pride parade (mind you, I'm only loving to them as a friend or family member. I never judge them, don't put them down, and don't show them anything but a good friend to be around. They are humans, and as such should be respected, regardless of personal beliefs). Too many are stuck on thinking that it's straight vs. gay. It's not. Being gay is an attribute, as is being black, white, asian, hispanic, fat, skinny, or any other reason people get ridiculed. Though the number of straight people being ridiculed -for being straight- is next to nothing, the number for being ridiculed based on sex, race, religion, demographics, etc is higher than for being gay.

Let's get off of the "how many get ridiculed for being straight" horse and start acting like triumphant people, not victims. The victim epidemic is too widely experienced in this country, not just for gays.

 

[howetechnical]

Great Sarah Silverman quote(sic).

As I recall, the citizens of California voted down a gay marriage proposal. So what the estimable Ms. Silverman is upset about is Americans voting against something, which is, apparently, an un-American act, if you vote no? Wow, should that word be hyphenated? Or should i be more caffeinated?

Cranky Bob

Exactly. Twice it has been voted against with a majority vote in California, yet the minority vote prevails as the only constitutional resolution, since for some reason a majority vote is now unconstitutional.

The ultimate way that I see it, logically (and, anybody who is very logical will agree), if practicing straight sex is the only way to continue our species as humans, then anything other than that would ultimately lead to the extinction of our kind. You can develop your own thoughts and conclusions on that, but it doesn't change the fact of the end result.

Wow, we sure have gotten off topic.

 

[Bob Maxey]

Crap! What about the person who drives another to suicide? What about the person who feels that others around them would be better off without them?

I'm glad your life is so good that you'd never consider ending it.

Suicide is not a selfish act for many, many people; most are in incredibly difficult circumstances.

Didn't I recently read somewhere about a young girl who killed herself because she was bullied online? Feel free to correct me. I think it was because of cyber bullying on MySpace or Face Book.

I wonder if this will lead to brand new crimes and cases will be brought against children for doing what all children occasionally do, and have done for decades? I remember when picking on the weakest was grand sport, way back in '62 or there abouts. If you were fat, short, or wore glasses you were fair game.

Cranky Bob

 

[_J.J._]

Exactly. Twice it has been voted against with a majority vote in California, yet the minority vote prevails as the only constitutional resolution, since for some reason a majority vote is now unconstitutional.

The ultimate way that I see it, logically (and, anybody who is very logical will agree), if practicing straight sex is the only way to continue our species as humans, then anything other than that would ultimately lead to the extinction of our kind. You can develop your own thoughts and conclusions on that, but it doesn't change the fact of the end result.

Wow, we sure have gotten off topic.

well, while I against gay marriage like the majority, I have to agree with constitutionality preventing the majority for always winning. 51% of the people could enslave 49% of the people simply by majority vote. the majority could vote that all redheads are to be nuetered doesn't mean it's constitutional.

I DON'T think marriage is a right so it deserves no constitutional protection.

 

[travelingfool]

I don't believe that being gay is a choice. Even the bible says that it is not a choice. I can even show you the scripture that says that GOD makes people gay (warning: you aren't gonna like what else it says about being gay.)

Christians who say that being gay is a choice... haven't read their Bible.

PM sent discussing this. If I said it here it would derail this thread into oblivion.

 

[SamsungVibrant]

I very much believe that you make the choice to be gay. In fact, most people I have ever met that claim to be gay say that it's a lifestyle choice. And in response to the original poster, no I in-fact do not give a damn.

Either you are lying or you misunderstood these supposed gay people you have met.

No gay person will tell you it is a choice, never.

Having a sexual attraction to the same sex is not by choice.

You don't wake up one day and decide when I look at other men I'm going to pop an erection. This is not by choice, a straight man doesn't pop a boner when he sees another hot guy.

However, lets go beyond the physical. Attraction is an inner state of being, a quality that can not be determined by choice. When you see a hot girl with round luscious breasts, a nice booty, you get that tingly sensation inside. Your limbic system is activated and a vast array of both autonomic and endocrine functions kick in. THIS IS NOT BY CHOICE.

Sexual attraction encompasses a wide variety of biological functions. It requires activation and inhibition of centers of your brain responsible for pleasure. There must be neuronal and endocrine responses leading to activation and inhibition of various parts of the body, and a cascade of hormones responsible for your fast heart beat, dilation of pupils, erection, and overall sensation of being in a state of attraction. HOW CAN THIS BE A CHOICE?

You don't wake up one day and choose to be attracted to the sent of the same sex. This is again biology, where the scent triggers a response.

More clearly is what you don't smell, or sex pherhormones that work without any definable sent.. A gay person doesn't decide this, biology has decided for them, the same way you never made the conscious choice to unwillingly have your entire biological system become activated upon the site of a woman.

Homosexuality is too ubiquitous amongst different taxonomic divisions of life to incorrectly conclude that homosexuality must be a conscious choice amongst humans.

BEING GAY IS NOT A CHOICE. It is simply a matter of time for science to prove this, I am 100 percent confident science will ultimately provide the answer.

You must also keep in mind genetics is a very NEW realm. Much of what we know about genes are based upon model organisms. Scientists study small model organisms with simple genomes, some as small as 4 coding regions. Studying the simple genome of prokaryotes and eukaryotes has taught us almost everything we know. However, these model systems are too simple, the human genome is much more complex. Only recently was the entire human genome sequenced.

However, just because you have the sequence, this doesn't always tell you everything. Being gay may end up being a combination of hundreds of genes working in concert, then being regulated via epi-genetics, which is beyond and above the direct sequence of our coding regions. Again, the world of genetics is new, epi-genetics is even newer and more fascinating, and far too complex, however in time this debate will be put to an end.

There is no way being gay is a choice, NONE.

 

[Bob Maxey]

well, while I against gay marriage like the majority, I have to agree with constitutionality preventing the majority for always winning. 51% of the people could enslave 49% of the people simply by majority vote. the majority could vote that all redheads are to be nuetered doesn't mean it's constitutional.

I DON'T think marriage is a right so it deserves no constitutional protection.

I am not quite clear on something and perhaps I am missing the point. If some issue is put to a vote and the majority votes no, how is this a problem? Our foundation is built, in part, upon the right to vote. As for enslavement, well, I suppose that could happen and I suppose one can think of all sorts of ways things can go wrong when people use their right to vote.

If 51% vote for making all gays get a "WARNING: Potential AIDS Carrier" warning tattoo on the head, well that is a problem. Unless you are straight and you sell tattoo guns.

But, we live in a decent country and 51% would most likely not vote yes.

As for your comment about marriage not being a right, I agree. Far too often gay people claim marriage to be a right. Or gay marriage is a right. Far too many people quoting the Constitution and the Bill of Rights have never read either. Case in point, this incorrect idea that the Constitution mentions 'Separation of Church and State."

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion . . ." In other words, no state church.

Bob

 

[SamsungVibrant]

I don't believe that being gay is a choice. Even the bible says that it is not a choice. I can even show you the scripture that says that GOD makes people gay (warning: you aren't gonna like what else it says about being gay.)

Christians who say that being gay is a choice... haven't read their Bible.

Look, the bible is a book that you choose to believe. The fundamental principles are only in affect if you are consciously aware.

Lets take for example aboriginal people that are indigenous to remote parts of our planet. Yes these people still do exist in the year 2010. These people have never heard of the bible, they do not know of its existence. They have never heard the word Jesus muttered, and never heard of Virgin Mary. They have absolutely no knowledge of such said things.

Christianity is completely void from their world, absolutely and unequivocally absent. The term Christian, the Bible, and the holly characters are completely absent from their realm of knowledge, they have absolutely zero knowledge that this exists.

HOW then can you sit there and argue with one of these people, and say that the Bible says this or says that, this is a sin, this is not.

You can only make such arguments about the bible and scriptures, and sins, because these are things that you are aware of in your life. Someone who is unaware can not commit a sin, when the Christian idea of sin does not exist, or more importantly when Christianity itself as a religion doesn't exist, and the bible is non existent.


To set the record straight, I am Christian. However, I also realize that not everyone else is. My religion and my God, is different from someone elses. So quoting the Bible, or quoting scriptures is nothing more than going in circles. More importantly, you CAN NOT argue the Bible to a group of people who are unaware of its existence.

I would also hope as a Christian yourself, you also realize that judgment shouldn't be passed by you unto others.