Advanced Task Manager vs. Running Services (under settings)General


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  1. ninjakyle

    ninjakyle Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    Advanced task manager seems to show much more things running than the Running Services does (in settings).

    I heard Advanced task manager sucks a little battery.

    Any thoughts on this? Why does it show more things running?
     

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  2. paimon.soror

    paimon.soror Well-Known Member

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    I believe that running services doesn't show protected system services, unlike advanced task manager which will show all unfiltered services. The reason that ATM sucks some battery is because you are closing cached apps, so in theory, the next time you go use the app, it uses more cpu cycles to fire the app up. Droid works like linux, when an app is no longer in use, it sits in memory and runs on little to no cpu cycles. Like linux, android works on the "no waste" policy.....you have 500+ mb of ram, so why not cache some apps for performance.

    Highly debated topic, the above is just my $0.02
     
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  3. ninjakyle

    ninjakyle Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    so, having the browser open to a static page isn't using ram or battery life?

    Is there a reason to close a program like that?
     
  4. paimon.soror

    paimon.soror Well-Known Member

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    It would be using some ram, it really depends on how android caches some data. I know that windows for example will take an application that is "sleeping" and write it to a page file to free up ram (mainly because windows runs on a 'free as much as you can policy'), however, linux will leave it in ram until space is needed (this is why if you run a linux system with 4gb of ram, you will notice that at least 75% of ram is used up after a few hours). As far as battery life goes, as long as the page isn't rendering anything, it shouldn't be using anything, RAM chips in general are a very very very low power device that is used to retain memory. As far as if there is a reason, it really depends on the type of user you are. If you are a heavy user of the browser, then no there is no reason to close a program like that, and android will recognize that and keep it 'sleeping' in the background. If you use the browser once in a while, android will recognize that as well, and shut it down. This is why sometimes you will open the browser and it will go to your homepage, and sometimes it will take you to the page you were previously at. Because our device has so much memory to play with, you will notice that a lot of applications will just sleep in the background. If you get a chance, hook up your incredible to the debugger on the PC. You will see a bunch of processes running, but most of them are using 0.00 - 0.01% cpu power ... generally these are 'signals' or 'pings' to let the program know 'hey, the OS is still alive, dont worry'.

    Ever notice how when you bring your phone back from 'idle' the widgets seem to 'refresh'. For example, if you use the clock widget and are using clock #1, the hands reset? Thats pretty much what android does ... when things arent being used, they go to sleep in ram.

    Hope that helps

    edit:

    It has always been a huge debate (i am a computer engineer) in computer technology as to which method is better: Free always vs Free when needed. There is a whole cult that says the former is best, another that says the latter. There is no right or wrong way, but if history is any indication, both are still around because one method isn't dramatically better or dramatically worse than the other.
     
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  5. ninjakyle

    ninjakyle Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    Thanks!
    I guess I will scrap the ATM and just use the built in to close things that are open unless anyone else has a reason why ATM is better. (It certainly does find more open programs than Running Services.)
     
  6. paimon.soror

    paimon.soror Well-Known Member

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    Yea i mean you will find a ton of people that will debate over why it is good and why it isn't.

    Another way you can think about it is, in windows, imagine instead of minimizing your apps you just fired up process explorer and killed the process. What happens? you lose all of your work, if the app was doing something you may have corrupted some data, if a system process was talking to the app you could get a blue screen etc etc.

    It really would be interesting to see the "close" mechanism of ATM. For example, in linux if you do a 'kill [pid]' generally it sends a graceful termination signal as if you pressed the 'X' at the top right of a windows application. This allows the program to do operations it normally does on closing (save data, tell other processes it is shutting down, etc). ATM could be doing a force close (like a 'kill -9 [pid]') that pretty much says "hey i dont care what you are doing, close NOW".

    Maybe if we get a better understanding of what the mechanisms are in these task manager apps, we can make a better judgement on how much harm (if any) it is doing to the stability of Android
     
  7. ninjakyle

    ninjakyle Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    Is there any way to close programs when I am done using them? Like the x button? When I am done with twitter, I would just close it.
     
  8. paimon.soror

    paimon.soror Well-Known Member

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    Some applications do have an exit button in the menu, but most will just be sent to the background until android deems it necessary to shut it down (aka you havn't gone back to it in x amount of minutes)
     
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  9. vin4151

    vin4151 New Member

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    So frustrating not knowing what's really off or still running and sucking battery life when you don't want it to.....
     
  10. jfunk

    jfunk Well-Known Member

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    The only apps using any power will be apps that are performing scheduled tasks like updating from the internet. These types of apps generally have user controlled settings to control how often they do.

    This is the biggest hurdle most windows users need to get over here. An app that's just "sitting" there in the background isn't using up your battery. Sitting in memory doesn't take any battery...that memory is powered whether you have an application residing there or not.

    The actual process of removing an application from memory uses your CPU and thus your battery. That's why the system doesn't do it by default. If you clear the memory every time you load an app (and then subsequently have to load it back into memory when you want to use it again), you just used a lot more battery than if you left it sitting there doing nothing in memory the whole time.
     
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  11. woop

    woop novacane (OFWGKTA) VIP Member

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    EVERYTHING that paimon.soror and jfunk said should be read by those that are still firm believers in task killers. Very well put fellas, couldn't have said it better myself.
     
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  12. paimon.soror

    paimon.soror Well-Known Member

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    I appreciate the gesture woop
     
  13. ThreeFingersDown

    ThreeFingersDown Well-Known Member

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    Today was my first day without being totally anal about using Task Managers and closing down programs like I would with a windows device.

    So far my battery life is WAY better.
    Been using my phone for about 4 1/2 hours (pretty heavily) and I'm only down to 75%.

    Just let the OS handle the processes.

    If you want to download anything I suggest "OS Monitor." With this you can see what processes are running and how much CPU they are using. Usually the only thing chewing on CPU is the Android OS, HTC sense (very seldom), and the OS Monitor (because it is currently in use while viewing.)

    This is a good program bc you can see if there are any apps using CPU cycles in the background. If this is happening you know the program isn't working properly and you can kill it. (I had to do this with a facebook app, downloaded a new one and now I'm fine.)

    Also being a noob to Android OS and the ways of Linux, this app allowed me to see how things are handled on this type of OS.

    Very very cool stuff.
     
  14. ninjakyle

    ninjakyle Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    Same for me!
    Thanks for the help everyone.
     

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