And here we go


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  1. Crude

    Crude Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    Review & Outlook: Healthamburglar - WSJ.com

    IF McDonalds is held to the "inshure everyone" standart that Obamacare was hyped as then your value meal may be $10 or more instead of the $5 you are paying now.

    btw this is only the beginning, our economy sucks. This program, among others is going to keep it sucking for a while.
     

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  2. mpw

    mpw Well-Known Member

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    The article gives a figure of less than $100/month as a low premium; what's the approx. monthly premium of a good, comprehensive plan of the type that 'ObamaCare' is suggesting should be the standard?
     
  3. Vihzel

    Vihzel Destroying Balls Everyday VIP Member

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    "In a statement, McDonald's did say that it was "completely false" to suggest that "we plan to drop health care coverage for our employees," and "regardless of how the regulations evolve over the next several months, McDonald's is committed to providing competitive pay and benefits." No doubt that's true: McDonald's will still need to attract workers—not to mention that corporations of its size and brand recognition are very sensitive to political intimidation."

    "But McDonald's didn't deny that the new rules will wipe out its existing plans."

    Speculation?
     
  4. copestag

    copestag Well-Known Member

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    theres nothing much to speculate on....... only 3 possible outcomes

    1) they drop all coverage - which theyve said they wont

    2) they switch their coverage to higher priced compliant plans - means premiums will increase for the workers not to mention the employer portion will increase which means prices to customers will increase.... bad business for all involved - not likely to happen

    3) they get the waiver that says they dont have to comply with obamacare rules - definitely going to happen..... the administration cant afford to keep exposing their failures to the public
     
  5. zauper

    zauper Well-Known Member

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    Considering that HHS has said that they will provide waivers if moving from a mini-med plan to a full-fledged health insurance plan would either substantially decrease access, or substantially increase cost, I don't see how they would fail to provide waivers here.

    I'm just curious if the waivers will provide an exemption to the individual health insurance fee and corporate health insurance fee.
     
  6. Crude

    Crude Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    Once you start handing out waivers though, where does it end? This plan was hyped as coverage for everyone but here we are going back to the way things where with only one differance, you no longer have a choice.
     
  7. zauper

    zauper Well-Known Member

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    What choice did you have before that you no longer have?
     
  8. copestag

    copestag Well-Known Member

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    therein lies the problem........ they will give waivers to all these companies (and rightfully so)....... which means the individual will retain the same coverage at the same costs........ but then when the individual minimum mandates kick in these same individuals will be forced by law to increase their coverage because these waivered policies wont meet the standards....... individuals wont get waivers........ guess who this hurts in the end.... the obamacare overhaul to make sure everyone has coverage is going to put a big dent in that minimum wage employees paycheck... an employee that runs a very very low risk of needing any type of coverage at all
     
  9. zauper

    zauper Well-Known Member

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    Your post is almost impossible to read with all the ....'s.

    Out of curiosity, why do you think someone making minimum wage doesn't need health coverage?

    Out of curiosity (x2), what makes you think that someone making minimum wage won't be eligible for a fully funded (aka free) plan under the exchange?

    [09 FPL for 1 person = 10k, for 4 people = 22050. Minimum wage is ~$8/hour. 8*40*52=16640. 8*32(minimum hours for full time)*52=13312.]

    Subsidies under the exchange go from 100% of FPL to 400% of FPL. If you're single and making minimum wage, you pay minimal amounts for your health care. If you had a family of 4 and were making minimum wage, you'd have free health insurance.
     
  10. copestag

    copestag Well-Known Member

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    first- we arent talking about all minimum wage employees** ..... we are talking about Mc Donalds employees...... an overwhelming majority of which are late teens or early 20s

    its very easy to find the information and statistics that show the overwhelming majority of people in these age groups do not need ANY health coverage whatsoever

    ** although you could easily transfer the same statement to nearly all across the board.... when you consider that an overwhelming majority of minimum wage earners in any profession fit into the same age groups


    second- we arent talking about exchanges .... we are talking about maintaining insurance through your employer under their plans......

    "Note: Subsidies are only available for people purchasing coverage on their own in the Exchange (not through an employer). All individuals and families with incomes at or below 133% of the federal poverty level will be eligible for Medicaid. Others with higher incomes may also be eligible, depending on rules that vary by state."

    also note that if your employer offers a higher priced plan with eligible coverage.... you are not eligible for full subsidy in the exchange.... unless your premiums are higher than 9.5% of your income.... if the intent is to put everyone on Medicaid then this will do the trick

    while you may still end up paying less even with a minimal subsidy under the exchange than you would under your employers higher priced plans....... the exchange subsidy isnt a "hey we will pay part of your premiums"....... the subsidy simply means you are eligible to enroll in Medicaid

    system: FAIL
     
  11. zauper

    zauper Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry. Do McDonald employees make more than minimum wage?
    Do it. Show me proof. You can't, so we can just call it a day if you'd like.

    I'm 26. Last year, I had $15k in health bills (after insurance). My brother, 28, had a "fatal cardiac incident" this year and now has an ICD. Not "early 20s", but close enough. It is true that people in their 20s tend to consume LESS health care, but not that they tend to (or even need to) consume NO health care.

    Let's say you're a late teen / early 20s guy. I dunno, maybe you play sports. Maybe you fall down the stairs. Break a bone, either way. Pretty common. Now you're out $5k, maybe more, for care. Is that cheaper than buying insurance?
    Again, not sure what you're getting at. You're trying to isolate a subsegment of the minimum wage earners to only look at McDonalds employees? This doesn't really matter.... It is amusing, though, that you're looking at this segment of the population. You do realize that they can stay on their parents insurance as dependents until age 26 now, right?

    Amusingly, this attitude you have (and I'm presuming you're in the age/work group you're referring to) is why the insurance industry refers to the group as the "Young Invincibles". The group tends to be characterized by folks who don't visit the doctor regularly and only use insurance for catastrophic events -- like I said; bones breaking, surgery, other serious injuries. Those are what you would want insurance for. Not a regular doctor's office visit.
    I think you're confused about health reform. If your employer doesn't provide you with a qualifying plan, you're allowed to go through the exchanges. If McDonalds isn't providing a qualified plan....
    Yes, this is true. You would be buying it on your own, rather than your employer buying it and you paying a portion of the premium. Still not sure what you're getting at because you're not being very coherent.
    I think you're confused about what health reform means. (I see that this is a trend).
    Yes, the subsidy is on a sliding scale from paying your full premium to being a... subsidy (hey look at that, it's definitional!).

    Getting a subsidy doesn't mean you're on Medicaid. Unless, you know, you qualify for Medicaid and are on Medicaid. They're different systems. For example; Medicaid will pay your co-pay if you're at the doctors office. A subsidy for your premium wouldn't do that. (that seems definitional as well, but you still seem to be confused).

    Since I'm too lazy to re-write what it says about Medicaid, here's Kaiser's comment [amusingly, it appears to be pretty close to what you quoted earlier]:
    "How do premium subsidies work? People purchasing coverage on their own would be eligible for government subsidies (through a tax credit) towards their health insurance premiums based on income. Subsidies would be provided to people with family income between 133% and 400% of the federal poverty level. The most that families buying coverage in an insurance Exchange would pay towards a health insurance premium would range from 3.0% of income at 133% of poverty to 9.5% of income at 400% of poverty, with amounts at specific income levels specified in a table in the law. Subsidies are tied to a benchmark level of coverage based on actuarial value. And, subsidies would only be available through organized purchasing pools called Exchanges. "

    It probably is worth noting that any minimum wage employee (like McDonalds!) would probably be on Medicaid as a result of this change, due to the increase in Medicaid eligibility (up to 133% of FPL). If they weren't on Medicaid, they'd be paying around 3% of their salary, or $480 annually. Amusingly, the fee for not having insurance in 2014 will be what, $100? And will top out around $700?

    Is the system good? No, of course not. But you don't seem to have any real understanding of what the system does beyond a probably a few articles that you've read.
     
  12. Crude

    Crude Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    tl;dr

    My choice before was ppo500, ppo1000 high deductible hmo or nothing.....

    your health problems are an exception not the rule. That's the problem with Obama care, if they covered every medical procedure a person needs what do you think that will cost? Right now that's just fine with everyone, once the bills start to hit the plan it will need more money OR less coverage. The problem is once it's here it's impossible to get rid of.
     
  13. zauper

    zauper Well-Known Member

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    You still have all of those choices.

    They don't need to be the rule.

    Obama care doesn't, and doesn't need, to cover every procedure. Yes, premiums will rise because of increased minimum mandates. You've gone way off track, now, though. What happened to your concern for the folks on minimum wage?
     
  14. Crude

    Crude Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    What? Concern for minimum wage? All I was saying is that Obamacare is already looking at exceptions it's already not working the way it was supposed to.
     
  15. zauper

    zauper Well-Known Member

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    I think you're still confused. If the people you're concerned about (mcdonalds workers) can get free insurance under medicaid due to the expansion, the mcdonalds waiver is irrelevant, isn't it?

    Which is aside from the point: if the bill is built with an waiver process, using that process doesn't mean the bill isn't working properly. In fact, it would mean the opposite.
     
  16. ElasticNinja

    ElasticNinja Well-Known Member

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    WTF?
    $5K for a broken bone?!??
    Seriously?
    No wonder medicare or whatever costs so much
     
  17. zauper

    zauper Well-Known Member

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    You have:
    emergency room time
    doctor time (initial, then several follow ups)
    likely rehab costs (if a joint is frozen because it couldn't be moved while you were in a cast)
    equipment costs (the cast, any screws if needed to hold the bone in place)
    surgery cost (depending on how bad it is)
    imaging equipment cost (certainly need an xray, though that's only like 100-200 bucks these days)
    Potentially you would also need to see a specialist in addition/instead of a PCP, which would add substantial cost (rates are higher for specialists)

    Cost of a broken arm: $12,000 and counting - Denver Douglas County | Examiner.com

    About how much dose a broken finger cost with out insurance? - Yahoo! Answers
     
  18. mpw

    mpw Well-Known Member

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    I had to go the ER last week over a suspected broken finger, the x-ray showed it wasn't broken; the cost(at point of delivery) of the imaging and ER doctor's time etc.
     
  19. zauper

    zauper Well-Known Member

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  20. mpw

    mpw Well-Known Member

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    I'm aware it's funded through my taxes, but I'm happy with that because my taxes aren't too high, yet they allow me the comfort of knowing that emergency treatment is there when I need it.

    As for top of the line cancer treatments; there's treatments available free, or I can choose to take additional insurance, or choose to buy additional care ad hoc should I so wish, and can afford.

    The vast majority of people I know don't have any private healthcare, and get the cancer treatment they need.
     
  21. zauper

    zauper Well-Known Member

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    But not the "expensive" cancer treatments, which are frequently the newly developed treatments. And you know, top of the line/etc.

    And yes -- you could buy it on your own. If you wanted to pay out of pocket for it. It's a lot cheaper if you happened to have....insurance. Which you don't have, because your government pays most of your health costs.

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article7086281.ece

     
  22. Sid Bonkers

    Sid Bonkers Well-Known Member

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    Free health care for all at point of care :):):)



    Isn't the United Kingdom a wonderful place to live :D
     
  23. Crude

    Crude Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    Herein lies my problem though. Everyone gets inshurance and less people pay in....costs go up for those that are paying. Saying the bill will may for itself is assigning. It never could and here's why.
     
  24. zauper

    zauper Well-Known Member

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    The waiver is for the company, not the individuals. The individuals are subject to either the fee for not having insurance or they will need to get insurance. The cost of their insurance will be very low because of their income.
     
  25. ElasticNinja

    ElasticNinja Well-Known Member

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    Yes it is!

    Irish independence FTL :-\

    Instead we have crappy two-teir system in Ireland :rolleyes:

    Its fine till you start dying or are astmathic like me...

    YAY :(
     

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