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Anyone boycotting the TSA scanners tomorrow?

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  1. paintmoonsred

    paintmoonsred Well-Known Member

    This issue is really interesting to me because it raises a lot of broader questions, for example:

    Why do so many people accept this new policy out-of-hand? More odd is people's ignorance of the full-palm body pat-downs.

    And sure, I am getting the "privilege" of flying. Okay, fine. But what about the privilege of going to a crowded public event, a popular tourist venue, etc etc. Why is it that I can go to these places and no one is going to grab at me with open palms or have a look-see at my naked body before I go in? I just see a big discrepancy with regard to TSA policies that makes it look a LOT like they are having a power-play, and I am fascinated by the social response to the issue. Then again, a lot of Americans have seemed to be willing to accept what they are told is best, and defend it without a whole lot of evidence for a while.

    As far as the airlines and TSA not caring whether people fly- if enough people are pissed about this to effect bottom line, they WILL care.

  2. don't blame the system. blame the individual.
  3. mike114

    mike114 Well-Known Member

    How about this one?

    The 4th Amendment to the US Constitution

    "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

    Did that clear things up for you?
  4. AndyLL

    AndyLL Well-Known Member

    This is so funny.

    When these machines were rolled out in late 2007 it was the aclu that was screaming about them and the conservatives making statements like 'flying is not a right' so suck it up.

    These days it seems its the conservatives screaming about them.

    Kinda funny... I wonder what has changed :D

    My complaint is that they don't make us any safer then what we've already have and diverted money from technologies that could make us safer.

    That said I would guess the heightened searches are because of the holidays and because the spooks have heard rumblings of threatened attacks.

    And the 'nakedness' of the images are grossly overstated... many of the images you seen on the internet are faked. ( hard to believe I know)

    The leaked 35000 images were from a courthouse not TSA and the quality sucked. (gizmodo has them)
  5. AndyLL

    AndyLL Well-Known Member

    I don't like the scanners because they are a waste of money and don't make us safer.

    However... how is this a violation of the 4th Admendment while the metal detectors are not?
  6. mike114

    mike114 Well-Known Member

    2 reasons:

    1 - Metal detectors don't produce an image of a naked body
    2 - No one is groping you while you are walking through a metal detector

    And I also agree with you on your 1st point, these scanners will not make any of us any safer.
  7. mike114

    mike114 Well-Known Member

    And where is the ACLU on this? Their overwhelming silence is deafening.
  8. Frisco

    Frisco =Luceat Lux Vestra= VIP Member

    Airport and airline security used to be about hijackings, some time back. It seems like every week we were reading about some kook forcing a jet to Havana or where ever. That was decades ago, when it was at its peak.

    Back then I was thinking that at some point we're going to have to find some way to examine luggage and passengers more thoroughly, or every nut-case on Earth will get a gun and nobody will feel safe flying.

    It got worse than that; now it's about radical Moslems wanting to destroy the U.S. and western civilization in general.

    X-ray me, pat me down all you want; I'll feel embarrassed and intruded upon, but I find that preferable to having to go to a morgue to identify body parts of my loved ones and friends following an improvised explosive device event on an airliner at high altitude.
  9. IOWA

    IOWA Mr. Logic Pants Moderator

    Did. I mention the scanners don't even detect bombs?

    Oh right, I did.
  10. 93civiccpe

    93civiccpe Active Member

    I don't know if it has been mentioned but the original designers and manufacturers of the full body scanners wrote an algorithm which would automatically blur the private areas of a male/female but still show if they were smuggling anything in that area. They forsaw this problem and wrote a piece of code to handle it. The problem is that the TSA made the decision not to use that piece of code, opting to be able to see everything. Plain and simply, someone from PR should have forseen this crapstorm and let them know in advance that they might want to stick with the algorithm that let people keep their dignity/privacy intact.
  11. NYCHitman1

    NYCHitman1 Gun for Hire Developer

    I don't know about you but I want Oprah's opinion. Lmfao!
  12. A.Nonymous

    A.Nonymous Well-Known Member

    To be fair, many of those polls are dated a few weeks ago. I'd be curious what public opinion is now.
  13. byteware

    byteware Well-Known Member

    This attitude really disgusts me. It actually makes me angry that I protected your rights. It makes me angry that people I know and cared about are dead protecting YOUR rights.

    So, you would be ok with this as a prerequisite to drive into a city? Since it's a choice?

    People bought these plane tickets 6 months ago. They spend hundreds if not thousands of dollars on these trips. These "enhanced" pat downs were not something they planned on. Yes, they could give up those thousands of dollars and never plan on seeing their loved ones again... but they shouldn't HAVE to do that in order to have the rights that the constitution guarantees them.

    Self-entitlement issue? I have a Constitution entitlement issue.

    And In case you haven't noticed, there aren't many jobs available AT ALL, whether they require flying or not.

    Which is WHY YOU DON'T DESERVE THE RIGHTS THAT HAVE BEEN GIVEN TO YOU. Strip Search without probable cause is an unreasonable search. Period. It's not really debatable.

    Yeah, because there are so many Well, by flying, you're potentially giving permission to be searched. If not, you don't fly, get over it.[/Quote]

    I won't fly. Ever. Period. End of discussion. My rights are my rights. I would die before I gave them up. However, I will no longer put my life on the line for the rights of the general public. Disgusting.

  14. byteware

    byteware Well-Known Member

    So what if the naked picture of your daughter is released with a FOIA request. Deal with it. I mean, every six year old girl is posting naked pictures of themselves right? Why should we care if people are distributing pictures of our naked 6 year old daughters? Right?

    You have just compared being an arrested criminal (albeit minor) with simply making the choice to travel by air.

    Maybe that realization will help you understand why we are upset. Criminals lose many of their rights when they are arrested (freedom of movement, etc...) That doesn't mean that is appropriate for the general public.
  15. NYCHitman1

    NYCHitman1 Gun for Hire Developer

    It kinda makes me angry that you have to bring it up in each one of your posts. We get it, you served your country to protect our rights. I commend you for your service and all but that doesn't give you the right to keep rubbing it in our faces. Getting tired of your holier-than-thou nonsense.
  16. byteware

    byteware Well-Known Member

    No offense, but GOOD. I wish that enough disruption occurred on a daily basis that they would stop the practice of routinely violating the rights of passengers.

    Poll: Most fliers bothered or angered by TSA pat-downs - USATODAY.com

    Poll over the weekend.

    57% bothered or angry about pat downs.

    42% bothered or angry about imaging.

    This actually makes me feel a bit better. I'm hoping that people weren't really aware of what was happening, and as the public realizes what is going on they will assert their constitutionally protected rights.

    I just couldn't believe all that I was reading about Americans giving up their rights without a fight.
  17. byteware

    byteware Well-Known Member

    I don't really care how it makes you feel that I'm angry and pissed that I protected the rights of people who didn't want them.

    I don't really care that it makes you angry that friends of mine died protecting the rights of people who don't want them. Their sacrifice was pointless if the public is just going to give away what they died protecting, and yes that pisses me off more than you could possibly EVER understand.

    I'm so pissed at the idea that I'm gritting my teeth every time I read this thread and every time I respond. (To the point where my jaw hurts).
  18. byteware

    byteware Well-Known Member

    Poll: Most fliers bothered or angered by TSA pat-downs - USATODAY.com

    57% not ok with pat downs

    42% not ok with imagers

    This is a good thing. With half the country against these practices, hopefully the TSA will bow to public pressure so we can end this practice now instead of after it's been drug through the courts.
  19. NYCHitman1

    NYCHitman1 Gun for Hire Developer

    You act like you are the only person who has friends in the military that have suffered injuries or fatalities. If it pisses you off that much, stop posting.
    lunatic59 likes this.
  20. byteware

    byteware Well-Known Member

    I don't act like I'm the only person who's buried people serving this country.

    Whether you like it or not THEY died for your rights. When you give them up, you spit on their sacrifice. You tell them, "Thanks, but no thanks". Instead of honoring them by fighting for your rights, you dishonor them by giving them up like cowards.

    I don't act like I'm the only person who's buried people serving this country.

    I act pissed that people protected by those I've buried give up what my friends died for like it was nothing.
  21. NYCHitman1

    NYCHitman1 Gun for Hire Developer

    They can do as they wish. It is optional after all. Just like it was your decision to enlist (unless you were drafted to Nam or something, of course). You just sound like a whiner to me.
  22. IOWA

    IOWA Mr. Logic Pants Moderator

    It's this attitude that's ruining the world.

    "It doesn't affect me, so **** it"

    Bullshit. It DOES affect you. Maybe not in this moment, but it WILL affect you.

    Anyone who doesn't want to stand up for their rights doesn't deserve to be called an American. At least that's how I feel.
  23. A.Nonymous

    A.Nonymous Well-Known Member

    They came for the Communists and I said nothing because I wasn't a Communist.

    They came for the Jews and I said nothing because I wasn't a Jew.

    They came for the Russians and I said nothing because I wasn't a Russian.

    They came for me and there was no one left to speak up for me.
  24. NYCHitman1

    NYCHitman1 Gun for Hire Developer

    I've got more important things to worry about than a few millirems of radiation at an airport. Not to mention, such a low amount that wouldn't even cause me much harm unless I was constantly passing through. I travel via plane once maybe twice a year. It really doesn't affect me. I'll let the people who are screaming bloody murder about this issue handle it.
  25. Slug

    Slug Check six! Moderator

    Please calm down everybody, and show some respect for other members. This thread is straying dangerously close to closure for its (and its contributors') own good.
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