Arizona immigration law


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  1. IOWA

    IOWA Mr. Logic Pants Moderator

    Thank you for your service, sir. I wear red on fridays as a salute to the troops to this day. Servicemen/woman are on my most highly respected list. If I wasn't severely flat footed, I would have been in the air force or marines. My salute to you, sir.

    And they aren't stopping people because they look illegal, they are asking for ID and giving them enforcement power if they DO SOMETHING WRONG.
  2. Fonseca

    Fonseca Well-Known Member

    Just a FYI, Bosnians are not illegal, they are political refugees (like Cubans).
  3. GixxerMan51

    GixxerMan51 Well-Known Member

    if your not a legal citizen, you have no rights. so dont act like you do.

    my 2 cents
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  4. IOWA

    IOWA Mr. Logic Pants Moderator

    This.
  5. hakr100

    hakr100 Well-Known Member

    Your two cents will not get you far in a court of law.

    In Wong Wing v. U S, 163 U.S. 228 (1896), the Supreme Court stated (in citing a
    previous case and affirming 14th Amendment rights):

    “The fourteenth amendment to the constitution is not confined to the protection of
    citizens. It says: 'Nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty or property
    without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the
    equal protection of the law.' These provisions are universal in their application to
    all persons within the territorial jurisdiction, without regard to any differences of
    race, of color, or nationality; and the equal protection of the laws is a pledge of
    the protection of equal laws.' Applying this reasoning to the fifth and sixth
    amendments, it must be concluded that all persons within the territory of the
    United States are entitled to the protection guarantied by those amendments,
    and that even aliens shall not be held to answer for a capital or other infamous
    crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, nor be deprived of
    life, liberty, or property without due process of law. “

    What I cited above is not the only example of Supreme Court rulings on "rights." Even illegal aliens have "rights" in this country. They may not be the same as rights afforded legal citizens or residents, but they still have rights.
  6. ballisticn8

    ballisticn8 Well-Known Member

    hakr makes one good point so far in this discussion. anyone in this country legally or not does have basic rights protected by our constitution. they wont have rights that legal citizens do but our constitution protects human rights, etc.

    I also stand corrected, but partially. ID is not "required by law" in AZ, but you can be held and charged with failure to provide indentification by a police officer until they can verify who you are. One of those catch 22's I guess. Its not a problem for me, concealed carry weapons permit does require you to have state ID. ;-)



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  7. TheNorthernForest

    TheNorthernForest Well-Known Member

    Both sides of my family are immigrants. My grandfather was struggling in Italy, right after the war; Times were terrible, but he wanted a better future for his new wife, and a better place to one day start his family. He needed to go to America, but he did it LEGALLY. My grandfather tells me all the crazy stories of what he had to do to come over here, bottom line is, he had pride and he was determined to enter this country legally because that is the right thing to do.

    It was a challenge, and maybe it could have been easier if he came America illegally, but he was a good man, and wasn't going to break the law.

    America welcomes immigrants more than many countries do. We provide work for everyone, we provide for a better tomorrow.

    However, many people travel illegally to the US to escape crimes, and this needs to be put to an end. I understand that many people who are trying to cross the border aren't murders and drug dealers, however illegally crossing the US border is ILLEGAL.

    Long story short, we welcome you here with open arms, but do it legally. It has nothing to do with race for I am not singling out Hispanics, but more so the illegality of it all.

    If you did something illegal, wouldn't YOU expect to pay the price?
  8. burton71

    burton71 Well-Known Member

    The US consitution disagrees with you.
  9. soulfetcher13

    soulfetcher13 Well-Known Member

    Ooh, this should be interesting. I said at the beginning of this thread that ok happy for Arizona, and I'm hopeful 49 more states will follow suit. All this is is a law, similar to the federal one already in place except for we have a gutless government unwilling to enforce its own mandates, therefore Arizona has made it a state level crime as well as a federal one, similar to almost every law out there to be here illegally.

    As with any other wonderful piece of writing, the Target audience is clearly defined. The first sentence, "we the people of the UNITED STATES..." I think is pretty obvious who is inclusive to these guidelines. The founders, smarter and wiser than all of us did not want nor foresee the neutered nitwits we call our elected officials be so irresponsible withthe gifts they fought and died for. I'm sure, all of you who are sympathetic to the plight of these immigrants would be happy to exchange your place here, and everything you worked for and earned through your own devices and faculties, and let them have it, sight unseen and take their place in wherever it is they came from. Otherwise, your logic and your argument is inherently flawed and is nothing more that more liberal guilt. We don't need any more of that. It is the very thing that has gotten us to this point in the first place. That is all.
  10. soulfetcher13

    soulfetcher13 Well-Known Member

    And by the way, good to see you back IOWA.
  11. Crude

    Crude Well-Known Member

    You couldn't be more wrong, but I'll play. Show me where the constitution gives you rights without being a citizen.
  12. ballisticn8

    ballisticn8 Well-Known Member

    Crude,

    Quite obviously I'm on my phone right now or I'd pull up facts for you but the 14th ammendment was already mentioned. Might want to start there. ;-)

    And if you see my other posts you'll know I'm not against this bill, just fyi.



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  13. burton71

    burton71 Well-Known Member

    14th ammendment...try reading it. Thanks for playing.
  14. soulfetcher13

    soulfetcher13 Well-Known Member

    You quoted part of the fourteenth amendment above somewhere, but like most disingenuous people, you left out the major part of it, who the fourteenth amendment is applicable to.

    Amendment 14 sec 1, "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

    It doesn't read, all persons, regardless of where they came from or how thy entered this country, legally or not, shall henceforth be granted all privileges afforded by the constitution forthwith.

    Thank YOU for playing, or trying to.
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  15. burton71

    burton71 Well-Known Member

    LOL you do realize the quote above about the 14th ammendment is part of a SCOTUS ruling correct?

    I suggest you do some reading up on case law surronding the 14th ammendment before making yourself look more foolish.

    Here are some of note to pay attention to: Yick Wo v. Hopkins (1886), Wong Wing v. U.S. (1896), Plyler v. Doe (1982).

    But since I know that you won't bother to look those up here is really all you need to know:

    "In rejecting the argument that the "equal" protections of the 14th Ammendment are limited to U.S. citizens, the Supreme Court has referred to language used by the Congressional Committee that drafted the amendment:
    "The last two clauses of the first section of the amendment disable a State from depriving not merely a citizen of the United States, but any person, whoever he may be, of life, liberty, or property without due process of law, or from denying to him the equal protection of the laws of the State. This abolishes all class legislation in the States and does away with the injustice of subjecting one caste of persons to a code not applicable to another. . . . It (the 14th ammendment)will, if adopted by the States, forever disable every one of them from passing laws trenching upon those fundamental rights and privileges which pertain to citizens of the United States, and to all persons who may happen to be within their jurisdiction."

    The only disingenuous (or just uneducated) persosn here is you.

    Thanks for playing, but sorry you loose.
  16. soulfetcher13

    soulfetcher13 Well-Known Member

    Without due process of the law, class distinction. 1886 huh. Wasn't that about the time Karl Marx wrote your favorite book? Is this due process enough for you?

    Judge- Did you enter this country legally and do you have supporting documentation?

    Illegal immigrant- uh, no (assuming they speak English and don't need a tax payer funded translator)

    Then under the fourteenth amendment, to be fair, you are hereby deported from this country and your property will be seized, and held for a period not to exceed one year so you can get your affairs in order and come back. Once you have returned legally, you may claim possession of your property after you have reimbursed the state for all expenditures incurred by holding your stuff. If not, we will auction it off. Or you can forfeit your property now and just return to your native country.

    Illegal alien- I'm going to call the aclu, the southern poverty law center, msnbc(state tv), and burton71.

    For crying out loud, when do you people stop feeling the guilt and return to pride in this country instead of just giving it away. This is about our country, and we cannot afford to support illegally anymore. From all the entitlements to healthcare to education to crime, no country can survive this. So find your obscure court rulings, they do not refute the math.
  17. burton71

    burton71 Well-Known Member

    Ok now that that is out of the way we can move on.


    Obscure court rulings...LOL. I guess I was correct about the uneducated thing.

    I love how you are so willing to trample on the consitution (and related SCOTUS rulings) in one sentence and then say people need to return to pride about this country in another. Hypocrite, thy name is Soulfetcher13.
  18. IOWA

    IOWA Mr. Logic Pants Moderator

    Here's the real question here. Why would you even want illegal aliens here to drain resources we pay for with our taxes, causing taxes to be higher, and then they go and steal our jobs, and send the money out of the country to bring in more illegals. Why would you want something like that?
  19. burton71

    burton71 Well-Known Member

    NEWSFLASH...opposing the Arizona law does not mean one supports illegal immigration.
  20. IOWA

    IOWA Mr. Logic Pants Moderator

    That's hyprocracy(sp?)


    Why would you oppose the new law if you didn't support illegal immigration?
  21. burton71

    burton71 Well-Known Member

    LOL, wrong.

    Because of the laws impact on US CITIZENS and it does next to nothing to address the root cause of the problem.
  22. IOWA

    IOWA Mr. Logic Pants Moderator

    Umm what impact on us citizens. It only affects you if your illegal :rolleyes:
  23. burton71

    burton71 Well-Known Member

    Sadly I think you honestly believe that.
  24. soulfetcher13

    soulfetcher13 Well-Known Member

    Your sanctimony isn't very becoming, and if you truly want to make this about education l, you may get your feelings hurt. But this is not the point of this thread. You say opposition to this law does not assume you are pro amnesty, however your posts say otherwise. Like I said in post 84, you are or seem very sympathetic to the plight of the illegal, you obviously don't mind propping them up with your taxes. I suspect you hated bank bailouts, as did I, well this is no different. So you should have no problem forfeiting your spot here in favor of another getting amnesty, or like all of you good liberals, you are all about talking but not willing to set the example. Your arguments are fatally flawed in logic and scope. You smack the doubletalk that would make a Party member excited. Possibly you are a spokesmouth for code pink and/or moveon.org, but ok. I served 10 years in the army, 15 months in Iraq and 3 other peace keeping deployments. I have a family and a country I both adore and am proud of and will be damned if all of you open border lack of national sovereignty one world government hacks ruin this place more than you already have. You tipped your hand earlier and that's fine, but you are a Marxist. If you don't like what's going on in Arizona, don't go there. Overwhelmingly the people of Arizona did want this. Ever wonder why, they are #2 in kidnappings behind who? Mexico City.

    The fact still remains, this country cannot support the illegitimate in this country, and if you think we can, don't talk about it be about it. Sponsor several of them yourself.
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  25. IOWA

    IOWA Mr. Logic Pants Moderator

    Lol why are you crying wolf when nothings been dne yet? Seriously? I mean, they aren't randomly stopping people on the street and asking for papers, and all this law does is allow enforcement of other protections guidelines set in place by the federal government.

    You remember what happened to the boy that cried wolf right? Well that's what your doing.
    soulfetcher13 likes this.
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