As an enterprise IT guy, I.probably shouldn't say this but... (win8)

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  1. SUroot

    SUroot Well-Known Member Developer

    ... I quite like it. My 7 build has been acting up at work so bit the bullet and rebuilt to 8.

    Sure its taking some getting used to but I've got it running on the domain (sans GPO), RSAT working perfectly... I just like it...

    I wouldn't neccessarily want end users on it.

    I'm still a bit "arrggghhhhhh, wheres start?" But ill get used to that. I know I can install replacement start menus, but that kind of goes against the reason for the experiment

  2. nickdalzell

    nickdalzell Well-Known Member Contributor

    I grew up around Win 3.x so i never got the attachment to the Start menu everyone whines about missing. the only gripe i have about Win8 is that it lacks customization. you need to be in desktop mode to even use wallpaper and that defeats the purpose of Win8's changes. to an extent Windows 8 is a rehash (albeit upgraded) of Windows 3.1's Program Manager. only now Progman is the entire interface, with tiles being in place of program groups. icons are a thing of the past except in Desktop mode.

    At least with my Xbox 360, i like the Metro UI. it really is quick and efficient compared with the dated looking PlayStation 3 Xcross Media Bar. i even get voice commands to use in apps which is preferable to a remote with batteries that die often
  3. SUroot

    SUroot Well-Known Member Developer

    Yes, you're stuck with one of 20 default wallpapers on the "Start" screen. You have to get a 3rd party program to allow photo wallpapers.

    In regards to start, it doesn't bother me. I started getting lazy with 7 and doing start + search term instead of run + command, bot actually that all still works. Simply typing from the "start" screen is the same as typing in the start menu and the commands all run the same. Its just I had become a creature of habit, after moaning for so long that Windows 7 takes the knowledge away from the technician and into the hands of the average joe, which was annoying. They could search and find things that as an IT technican, you may not want them finding.

    In a way, removing the start menu might seem like a step backwards, but actually, to me its more like a step back towards when they had it right (not 3.x, but when not all the sensitive and more dangerous settings were easily put in display).

    Edit> What is really awful is the "Icon Tile" when you install an app and it slings an ugly icon at a tile to make this monstrosity.
  4. johnlgalt

    johnlgalt Antidisestablishmentarian VIP Member

    Win 8 makes a lot more sense when you have a touchscreen or else you have a touchpad. However, the backend changes to things like Task manager are golden compared to previous Windows.

    That being said, I'm still on 7 and will continue to use 7 until I get a new build using EFI and more SSDs to change over - I'm completely happy with 7.

    My next build will actually probably be a WHS on an old Dell that is facing retirement soon.
  5. SUroot

    SUroot Well-Known Member Developer

    Task manager is much better. Closer to the sysinternals stuff. I like that startup items is there too, preventing a users need for msconfig
  6. nickdalzell

    nickdalzell Well-Known Member Contributor

    The Start button was getting obsolete in the age of smartphones and tablets. quite honestly all the Windows 8 forums are so full of whiners crying about their precious start menu that one would assume they would hardly miss, given that the phone, tablet, in-car navigator they use has none, making the whole habit a thing if the past to me.

    Windows 8 is one of many OSs that are trying to unify the tablet and desktop platforms into one particular standard. similar to automatic transmissions being more and more a standard on cars today, instead of the ability to choose between a manual and automatic. but all i see is a rehash of the failed Packard Bell Navigator, Microsoft Bob days--if you think Windows 8's tiles for icons for Firefox or Desktop mode apps look bad, try adding a more current program to MS Bob. it creates a giant 16-color icon

    Sadly Android isn't escaping the 'noobification' either. if you use Android 4.x there is a little prompt that if an app gets 'too slow' according to Android (and not me) it will pop up an alert that says 'this app is not responding, do you want to close it?' which will come back over and over until you either force quit or until the app gets up to snuff. every time i see that warning i keep assuming that Clippy is popping up on my screen asking me the same question. it was not cute in MS Office, and is certainly not a cute thing in Android 4.x.
  7. Mayhem

    Mayhem Well-Known Member Contributor

    If you want your start button back, install ViStart.
  8. nickdalzell

    nickdalzell Well-Known Member Contributor

    honestly all the start button whiners never made any sense to me. they are never so angry that their tablet or smartphone lacks one.
  9. anoniemouse

    anoniemouse Well-Known Member

    I have been toying with win 8 since it came out, as far as i am concerned it is ok for anything with a touch screen.
    When it comes to serious desktop users it is a big mistake, there is a very large group of us that are going over to linux when win 7 comes to end of life.
    That said if Microsoft come to their senses & make a desktop edition that doesn't try to limit users accessing all areas,then that exodus will stop.
  10. legacy

    legacy Well-Known Member

    As an IT guy myself, I think it's horrible. It's built for touch, but SO MANY of the things you do on a day to day basis, you need the desktop for.

    I find myself at a tile, pressing the windows button to get to the desktop, then pressing it again to get back to the tiles, then pressing the "cmd" tile, then pressing the windows button again.

    Navigation around the UI is much slower, and not at all intuitive.

    Good idea...maybe, but VERY poor execution.
  11. SUroot

    SUroot Well-Known Member Developer

    I sort of disagree. All the start button did was bring you to a pop up menu from the desktop that has all your program shortcuts, a search function and a couple of system areas such as "devices and printers" and control panel. Some of these may have been awkward from a touch screen device. The windows button did the same

    Now, pressing the windows button bring up an entire screen that has all your program shortcuts and a search function. There is a pop out side bar that has system settings on it from the desktop already. All they have really done is replace a small menu that takes up 20% of the screen, with a bigger menu that takes up 100% of the screen, with bigger "menu entries" that you could easily touch had you a tablet.

    Sure the start screen is more orientated to tablet users. Like Nick said, its unification. Its not exactly hard to use with a mouse, unless you leave ALL your apps on there and have to swipe across multiple screens like an ipad. But you remove what you don't want. You can have live tiles too. There is always the "All apps" button you can access on the bottom bar to get a list of all apps. I think given a bit more exposure, its going to make more and more sense. Its just the explaining it thats going to be the hard part.

    The desktop is still there. You press the windows key to get to start, as you always did. They just wanted to make more use of the windows key by removing the gui element, which I rarely used anyway. So the desktop is the same, but without a gui start button. The only other thing is that you have to imagine windows starting up with the start menu popped up. Think of it that way, when you get the metro ui and maybe it makes it better.
  12. johnlgalt

    johnlgalt Antidisestablishmentarian VIP Member

    Agrred. The only way to make something popular is to m00bify it. You think *nix would have ever gotten 'popular' without GUIs and installers and automated updates? Really?

    Remember popularity contests are for the unenlightened. The rest of us use what we need to as we need to.

    As for Android ANRs, well, that is what developer options are for - to FC them without the need to actually have to answer that dialog. However, in my case it's the exact opposite - I know the app is still functioning and I think Android is a bit too aggressive in trying to see if I want ot kill an app when I started it in the first place.

    Your whole point of unification is spot on - I couldn't agree with you more (as evidenced by my next two replies lol)

    Correction - when it come sto serious current generation desktop users who have gotten conditioned to having the start menu there.

    As SuRoot notes below in his reply, us old school KB junkies already know how to get things done when we need to - start menu / button or not. Win 7 spoiled me in that instead of Win + R I could now run Win and use the search box for my apps - a godsend in that it made running apps just a little easier - and as long as I still have my Win + {X} shortcuts I'm happy - start button or not. As for the rest, well, it looks more mobile, but unification is a good thing sometimes - their strategy is to get you used to the interface on your desktop so that (hopefully) you'll be more confident to use the same interface on a mobile device.

    In addition - the search button is built into the OS. So is the home button. And a menu button. In Android, anyway, keeping those functions handy in a start button would be not only superfluous, but redundant.

    I think the same is happening with WinMo - to get rid of the redundancy, they are focusing on unification,as I mentioned above.
  13. Speed Daemon

    Speed Daemon Disabled

    As an IT guy I ask if there's any net gain that comes from changing things around. 99% of the time there isn't.

    As a consumer who values his money, I wonder if I'm paying for the same pig that I bought last time, but in a different dress. I can't cook and eat a dress.

    As a technologist I really wonder how much of our computer technology is "tool" and how much is "toy". There's nothing wrong with toys per se. But I can't help but be reminded of some dystopian novels that depict the masses as human cattle, whiling away the hours in technological fantasy lands, blissfully unaware of the worms devouring them from the inside out...
  14. SUroot

    SUroot Well-Known Member Developer

    I cannot see any business justification to move an enterprise from 7 to 8. None what-so-ever.

    The only possible justification in the technology company I work for that I can imagine, is that a new, amazing engineer tool comes out and it only works on 8.
  15. pbf98

    pbf98 Well-Known Member Contributor

    I don't think windows 8 was specifically designed for a touch screen. My views is that it was made to make the gap between mobile OS and desktop OS smaller. So if you can use a windows phone, you can use a windows pc, if you can use a windows pc you can use a windows tablet.

    I think the computers of the future will be nothing more than a tablet or phone sized object. My phone has more than double the power of my first computer back in 2000 and it is only a fraction of the size.

    I have toyed around with windows 8 and will eventually get to moving it to my main work station, but I really see no reason for everyone to complain about it as much as you hear.
  16. SUroot

    SUroot Well-Known Member Developer

    The Metro UI was designed for touch screen, just as was Windows phone 7. Windows 7 touchscreen meant you needed more expensive (accurate) touch screens or it was a nightmare to use.

    These tiles are specifically bigger, removing text menus to be easy to access without the pinpoint accuracy. At the same time, it is indeed moving to a "one solution" UI
  17. nickdalzell

    nickdalzell Well-Known Member Contributor

    the Metro UI first came with WP7. then the Xbox got it (and i like the Xbox, voice[kinect] driven model myself) and now they are trying to tie-in both mobile and desktop under one interface. it is very much the same tactic as having one wiring harness for every model car you manufacture, using all of the plug available for every option, and hiding the plugs behind cover plates for option deletes. this has been going on in automotive for a long time (you can find the wiring for a turbo boost gauge in a Dodge Shadow behind the blankout in the middle of the dash). it is not surprising the IT field has adopted a similar strategy. this could help a lot with admins and repair, as there is no need to know more than one system. when i was interning it was a mish mash of WinNT, UNIX, and Windows XP.
  18. Davdi

    Davdi Well-Known Member Contributor

    I've put Win8 on my 'frankenstein' box. and I've just put the start button back after several months. This is simply because it's easier to use with a mouse. I do agree with the comments that the 'Meteo/Modern' start screen is a rehash of the Win 3.1 progman. However, progman was integral to the desktop, not separate from it. I'd like a new progman style interface for win8 integrated with the desktop.
  19. Speed Daemon

    Speed Daemon Disabled

    Back when we had Windows on DOS 3.x and Windows NT 3.x and Program Manager as the shell, the average monitor size was 14" with a 640x480 resolution. The managers and power users who got the big screens of 1024x768 and beyond soon got sore wrists from moving their mice all over that vast desktop real estate. That was when trackballs and desktop touchpads briefly became competition for the mouse, as people searched for relief.

    The Start button was so successful because it greatly enhanced motion economy, and made it possible to have large, high resolution displays without doing permanent damage to your mouse hand. It really was a gigantic improvement.

    I predict that after the "gee whiz" factor wears off, and people grow tired (literally) of making those large gestures that the Metro UI demands, some rehash of the Start button will come back in Windows 9 or 10 to save us from carpal tunnel syndrome once again.

    I'll probably be using my tried-and-true KDE 3.5 desktop through all of it, and be happy as a clam at high tide. :D
  20. Davdi

    Davdi Well-Known Member Contributor

    I only put Win 8 on as I can get the pro version free (Legitimately via my Uni's Dreamspark Premium subscription). I did use Win3.1 on a 1024 x 768 screen. the good part was I could have most of my program groupas arranged as large tiles for near instant access to whatever programs were inside them. Something like 'Tile Containers' will likely be an 'improvement' from Microsoft in SP1 for Win 8.
  21. SUroot

    SUroot Well-Known Member Developer

    Tile containers? They can be grouped already if that's what you mean? Or do you mean, one large tile for "office" and within there - word, excel etc?
  22. Davdi

    Davdi Well-Known Member Contributor

    Exactly what SUroot suggests
    Oh.. we have them already on the desktop they're 'folders'. I just think the 'Metro/Modern' start screen needs somehing similar to help organize it efficiently. Otherwise with many apps installed you have to keep scrolling waaay over.
  23. SUroot

    SUroot Well-Known Member Developer

    Yep. I found myself unpinning loads of stuff from Metro.
  24. Speed Daemon

    Speed Daemon Disabled what's really going on here is that people are rushing to throw down big money on a warmed-over version of Program Manager, except not as good. :rofl:

    Good to know...
  25. SUroot

    SUroot Well-Known Member Developer

    Smaller companies may not have an enterprise / Volume licensing agreement, which would mean they're forced to use the OEM licence. Buying a new computer would force their hand.

    I really can't see an enterprise purposely switching to 8.

    We can't really compare it to program manager. It's massively more advanced. All it is is a Start Screen instead of a start menu. It really isn't much different to 7.

    With exception to Task manager, msconfig and file copying status - almost everything in control panel is identical to 7 and vista.

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