Battery Advancements?


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  1. Ste20man

    Ste20man Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    I'm new to this site but have found it really useful.

    I have just got a HTC Desire 2.2 and am really happy with it. This is my first smart phone and the features are amazing. Internet on the go is incredible plus all else. It is a far far view back to my LGK990.

    A question I have got is about the battery, or more rightly, future batteries. I've read a lot about how to extend battery life and so far it's going ok I think.

    What would be really cool to know is when there will there be a battery that lasts for 3 / 4 days off one charge with lots and lots of use.

    When this happe? If ever?

    How cool would it be to not have to worry for 3 days about charge. I'd pay
     

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  2. julianb

    julianb Active Member

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    I don't see any new advancements coming any time soon. I keep reading about new types of batteries (Engadget and other websites) but since no manufacturer has implemented any of them yet (Apple's iPhone has pretty much the same battery life as Desire)I would not hold my breath. And even if there is a better battery out there it will take more to implement it in practice- new technology process, new suppliers and all the other stuff.
    Shame though- I just cannot explain myself why the heck they make the smart phones so damn thin. Add 2-3 more millimetres and shove a thicker/bigger battery inside.

    Good topic, man.
    Cheers.
     
  3. Phenomenological

    Phenomenological Well-Known Member

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    Battery technology is indescribably complicated. You have to find a way to store a vast amount of energy, in a very small space, in a perfectly safe way, without using harmful chemicals, whilst keeping temperatures low. Not to mention ensuring they last for as many charge and discharge cycles as possible without degradation. Modern batteries are marvels of engineering, and many laptop batteries actually have similar levels of energy stored in them to a hand grenade. Luckily, it's released much more slowly, though. :p

    No major advances in battery technology are forthcoming. Not in the way of storage anyway. For the time being, scientists seem pretty much stumped. Ways to charge batteries much faster (A few seconds from empty to full) are in the works and will be here within the decade I'd imagine, but storage wise lithium-ion and lithium-polymer are pretty damned good.

    An interesting advancement would be the production of miniature hydrogen fuel cells for phones, so when the battery runs low you just top your phone up with fuel. But hydrogen isn't the most stable of elements so that probably won't happen, at least until the find a safe way to store it. If it wasn't for the fact people would tamper with them and kill themselves/others it could even be possible to have a small RTG (radioisotope thermoelectric generator (Uses heat from radioactive decay to produce energy)), provided a way could be found to adequately shield it. But health and safety would have a field day. So perhaps not.

    The point is, storing energy on such a small scale isn't as easy as it sounds. Batteries have come a long way, and are at a bit of a dead end. Hopefully they'll come up with something soon. ;)
     
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  4. yenrod

    yenrod Well-Known Member

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    Nokia tried a longer (bigger) battery in the 5800..tho the last time of it wasnt much better than what you get in the hTC desire stock.

    I got a 2400m/ah from amazon and use either as a spare.
     
  5. chris 290

    chris 290 Well-Known Member

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    I heard that mit have developed a battery that holds the same amount of charge as current batteries but only takes 10 seconds to charge. This might be the future, ultra quick charging and normal rate discharging. Imagine that tech integrated with a solar cell for quick charging on the go, could be the future.

    I believe that now smart phones are becoming the main phones in popularity, development will be a priority as it could make a lot of money. Here I an hoping.
     
  6. Phenomenological

    Phenomenological Well-Known Member

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    The issue with that being solar power is awful. :p It works fine if you have a hundred or so square kilometres, millions of pounds worth of parabolic/tubular mirrors, a high-pressure water system, and a steam turbine. But small scale photovoltaic cells are dreadful. Remember that even if batteries can be charged in a matter of seconds, they require the same amount of energy as before, possibly more so depending on how efficient the charging process is. It'll take a pretty hefty power supply using a mains plug, let alone a solar panel. Let me demonstrate.

    The Desire's battery is a 1400mAh battery. This means it can supply 1.4 amps for an hour at its operating voltage of 3.7 volts. Multiplying current by voltage gets power in watts, and multiplying that by the number of seconds gives the total number of joules. Therefore the battery stores 1.4*3.7*3600 = 18,648 joules. We'll round it to 18,500 since that's well within the measurement error for the battery power. Now, the desire charges at 5 volts, and if we assume the upgraded charge time is 10 seconds, we can work out the current required. 18,500/10/5 = 370 amps. That's assuming the charging process is 100% efficient, which it isn't. 370 amps is a truly ridiculous current that would melt through most if not all household wires, and the heat produced when the battery is charged would probably make it explode quite dramatically. So take all the 'Hyper-fast charging' claims with a large pinch of salt. It probably isn't going to happen. ;)

    A note to the picky: I am aware 370 amps would be the power OUTPUT from the transformer, not that drawn from the mains. However the current desire charger changes 200ma power at 240v into 1A power at 5v. So working on a similar ratio you'd still need 74 amps from the mains. That's about double what you need for an electric oven. See why it's ridiculous?
     
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  7. beyond

    beyond Well-Known Member

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    I actually understood what you wrote there because you explained it very simply and carefully. Cheerss.

    Sucks to hear the outcome though, which is generally 'you'll just have to wait cause it's as good as it can get atm'.
     
  8. chris 290

    chris 290 Well-Known Member

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    Yep, I did realise that solar charging was a bit of a silly idea as I wrote it.

    However, fast charging may not be such a problem. Imagine they charged over 2 minutes, coupled with inductive technology, this would improve the situation dramatically. I don't see that being to much of a problem in the not to distant future. Technology is driven by demand and it would seem that whoever improves battery technology first will make a lot of money.

    We also forget that next generation processors will probably be less power hungry. I'm surprised at how quickly tech has moved on in smart phones already, so maybe im just an optimist, but im more comfortable being an optimist than pessimistic.

    All, I know is that smart phones will be limited if battery technology does not move forward and I believe that it will as many scientists look for an alternative way to make electric cars that are usable. It may be in the automotive trade that new technologies emerge but I am optimistic that batteries will greatly improve in the next ten years.
     
  9. Phenomenological

    Phenomenological Well-Known Member

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    Charging over two minutes is a more reasonable 31 amps output, so probably around 6 amps from the mains. Stick a bit on there to compensate for inefficiencies and we'll say a maximum current of about 8 amps. That's at least technically feasible, but there'd have to be a pretty good method of dissipating the heat. I'd imagine charging cables would be gone and the transformer inside the phone would be shifted to a well-cooled external base station that you plug the phone into, or the heat buildup would be too much. Maybe even a fan to cool the back of the phone. But yes, two minutes is theoretically doable, I agree. :)

    Personally though, I think the biggest step forward in battery technology is going to be when phone manufacturers decide to stop trying to make the most brittle phone possible, and stick an extra mm of battery in the back. :p
     
  10. ArthurIhde

    ArthurIhde Well-Known Member

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    i agree with you dude! [​IMG]
     
  11. flyte

    flyte Well-Known Member

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