Battery conditioning not working for you? LOOK HERETips


Did this method extend your battery life

  1. Yes

    4 vote(s)
    15.4%
  2. No

    9 vote(s)
    34.6%
  3. not sure

    13 vote(s)
    50.0%

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  1. 4g4me

    4g4me Active Member This Topic's Starter

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    Hello all, I am starting my own thread because none of the old ones hit on exactly what i am about to say. MODERATORS PLEASE DONT RELOCATE THIS POST!!! i really want others to find this thread and it will get lost in the sea of other posts.

    Ill start from the begining. Got my evo- charged it for a few hours until light turned green. Got about 5 hours out of it.

    Read online and did all of the tricks others were talking about, started reducing functionality and backing down syncing. removing apps, stopping automatic startup- even rooted with damage control, still didnt see much difference. at that time i was getting about 5.5 to 6 hours out of it with moderate use.

    Did the "conditioning" noticed no real change

    [​IMG]

    IF THIS SOUNDS FAMILIAR THEN READ ON

    So i decided to try something different.

    I charge the phone turned !!!OFF!!! from around 15 % to full (green light) . Turn the phone on til green light (usually takes about 15 minutes)

    Thats it

    [​IMG]

    I now get at least 12 hours heavy use. I did not do that process last night and im 4 hours off charge -light use and am almost dead. so i really think this works.

    try it out and post back if it did or did not work for you.


    again i use phone until 15% or less. turn phone off. place on charge until i get a green light. turn phone on. wait for green light. unplug charger. enjoy lasting battery.
     

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  2. 84guy

    84guy Well-Known Member

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    i do the opposite. charge with phone on till green. turn phone off charge till green(takes about 2-3 mins), then unplug and turn phone on and i got 2 1/2 days unplugged with moderate use(3 hours wake time) with 40% battery left, i played games, used facebook, browse the market etc. i do leave mobile network off when im not using it, and use wifi when at home

    but it really does seem like there are some bugs in how the phone reads the battery %(causing it to not charge all the way)
     
  3. MDbandit

    MDbandit Well-Known Member

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    well i have noticed, if you turn the phone off, even if at 1% battery left, it only takes about an hour to reach full charge. WHen i charge with the phone on (either usb or wall outlet), takes a very long while to charge up. However i still dont get super duper battery life
     
  4. takirb

    takirb Well-Known Member

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    i charge mine with the phn on all night. I then turn off the phn in the mornings as i'm getting ready for work, and let it charge till green (usually 2-3 min), then i just unplug it, wait a sec, plug it back in, and let it charge till green again (usually 1-2 min), then repeat again and it usually stays green after plugging it back in. That's when i turn it back on and go on about my day. I average 15+hrs each day with moderate use no problem, and still have plenty of battery left before i charge it for the night. That's about all the time i need it for anyways.
     
  5. 4g4me

    4g4me Active Member This Topic's Starter

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    I have attempted the charge til green light with phone on then turn off unplug, then plug then on then off over and over until always green, but i have found on my phone that the oppisite is true for me. I ask a few ppl to try and let me know. It takes a few hours to charge initially (as always when charging from 15 %or less) then about 15 min after its turned on but i have noticed a huge difference!
     
  6. 4g4me

    4g4me Active Member This Topic's Starter

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    MDbandit, mine takes longer than an hour to charge when off... not sure whats going on there, how long of life do you experience?
     
  7. vandyfc

    vandyfc Member

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    This is great.........but, what about us that have to have a phone all day and night (On Call). I still say, a phone this great should have these issues, especially so close after release........Even so, I love my phone and will try during a time i have other options for being reached.

    Thanks for the advise......we'll see how it goes for me.:eek:
     
  8. 4g4me

    4g4me Active Member This Topic's Starter

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    might not work for everyone. I charge at night and turn it on while i get ready in the AM .... sorry bout the confusion.
     
  9. Rdot9

    Rdot9 Well-Known Member

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    tough for me to do, i use my phone as my alarm and nightstand clock, so it's gotta be on. If i ever get the chance ill try it though, maybe this weekend.
     
  10. 4g4me

    4g4me Active Member This Topic's Starter

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    *UPDATE* performed this again last night and not sure how long it takes to charge initially but it did take 36 minutes after i turned it on for the LED to turn green. I have had it off charge for and hour now and have made 3 phone calls, 2 text messages and attempted to watch the iP4 vs Evo prizefight and i am still at 100% !!! FYI... I never saw 100% for more than a second or two before. Even after "conditioning or calibration it only stayed on for 30 sec.
     
  11. Rigmaster

    Rigmaster Well-Known Member

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    Here's my explanation. Sorry I couldn't make it briefer without giving enough detail and an example.

    There doesn't seem to be a 100% reliable solution. However, the fact is that the Evo itself has an impact on battery charging. While on, it charges, but actively regulates charging against power use needed by the live phone. While off, Evo has very little to manage other than time and very low-level operational functions including monitoring and regulating battery power - this is the best way to get a complete charge outside of external charging. Once a battery reaches full charge while the Evo is off, it's likely that the Evo is reducing charging to almost 0. Yet the miniscule draw on power begins.

    As to what happens after turning the phone on - the discharge rate likely does not change so the battery meter readings simply measure the level of charge capacity. And that miniscule draw begins to show as below 100% battery.

    I don't think modern batteries need to be conditioned, but I do think it's ok to fully discharge them every once in a while so the internal meters measure a charge from 0 to full capacity.

    While the Evo is on/live, the charge cycles get progressively smaller as the battery capacity gets filled. Just like topping off gas in a car, battery power gets topped off in smaller and smaller increments to the point where it may register as full but never reach overflow. Using the gas example again, pumps that use higher pressure to force gas into the tank usually do not fill the tank to the point of running over. They measure not just the gas, but the backflow air pressure so they always shut off before "overfilling" the tank. Evo's internal meters are likely shutting off before overfilling, but the overfill is just above what the driver would see as the full line. It's also best to fill your gas with the engine off because your car cannot produce fuel line and fuel tank pressure that would reduce the amount of fuel your tank would accept. Just happens that the full line of a car still leaves room for up to 2 additional gallons. On the Evo, the meters are leaving additional room to full (internal meter full line), but there's still capacity in the battery.

    I believe the core issue is the Evo is preventing the battery from ever being completely full is that the Evo's internal battery capacity meters are stopping the charging before the battery ever reaches a true 100% capacity. It's like the battery has an extra 10% capacity that is never filled but always measured.
     
  12. stainlessray

    stainlessray Well-Known Member

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    what tool are you using to analyze battery life?
     
  13. takirb

    takirb Well-Known Member

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    that's JuicePlotter, very accurate monitor once it's calibrated from my experience
     
  14. htmlcssguru

    htmlcssguru Well-Known Member

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    To expound on this for a sec, what I discovered is that when you put it on the charger for the night and it reaches that 100% the phone begins to work under its own power. Therefore, even when you awake in the morning to the green light, the phone has been working off the battery since that point in the night that it reached the 100%. That's why you'll notice a drop immediately to anywhere from the high 80's to the low 90's depending on what point in the night it switched to battery power. I noticed this the other day, dropped to 92% within about 15-20 mins. I plugged it into my USB port on the computer, charged it to 100% then unplugged it. Then it stayed at 100% literally for an hour. So, turning the phone 'off' at night when you charge it would definitely make the battery retain the true 100% since it's not switching over to battery power as it would if you charged the phone while 'on'. Hence your longer battery life when doing so.
     
  15. takirb

    takirb Well-Known Member

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    No offense, but i disagree with this. My phone stays on and on the charger all night long. When i remove it, it takes less than a total of 10 min of so-called "bump-charging" before the light stays green consistently with a full charge. I also have 100% battery left even after i make it to work and start up Pandora (maybe 15 or so of travel time). If the above were true, i believe it'd take longer to recharge my battery fully in the mornings since it had been draining the battery for sometimes 4-5 hrs after it hit full charge during the night. Just my $.02 :)
     
  16. Rigmaster

    Rigmaster Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. That's why I used the gas example. When your car is off at the pump, it cannot trick the pump into thinking the tank is full by producing pressure in the fuel line or tank. When the Evo is off, it cannot fool the charging meter into thinking it's full, leading to charging being shut off, leading to the phone using battery. When it's off, the phone using battery gets reduced to a bare minimum - just the clock and other boot-required essentials that use very little battery power.

    In the end, I believe this could be remedied by a software fix that would allow top-off charging. I don't think trickle charging would make sense as it's really reduced-power input charging. Top-off charging is just full power charging until cut-off. I think the amount for top-off should be set at 95%. Anything less would be almost a useless recharge. Anything greater would still lead to people wondering why they can't see 100% charged more often. A 5% charge would also only take about 6 mins and a 10% charge about 13 (rounding).

    Not sure how people are claiming one-hour charging from empty when it's a 1500mah battery yet the chargers are 1000mah. It should take 90 mins to a full charge from empty. A charge of one hour would be for a battery at 30-33%.

    At any rate, I generally don't charge overnight. I charge from the time I wake up at 6am (I have a dog) to the time I leave the house 7:30am, which is always just about enough time to fully charge. Oh, and I usually leave SprintTV or something else on in the evening to drain the battery down to 20% before I go to bed so it can drain to approximately 5-10% overnight while doing nothing but still on.
     
  17. 4g4me

    4g4me Active Member This Topic's Starter

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    Great insite rigmaster. way to really disect that, does this seem to work better for you?
     
  18. bvbull200

    bvbull200 Banned

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    If I'm following your reasoning, that nearly explains what people are seeing, but not exactly. If it is a 1500mA battery and it is leaving 10% (which I understand is a hypothetical percentage) on the table, then 100% would be 1350mA. Now, when the battery shows, say, 90%, what is that 90% of? Are you now down to 1215mA or still at 1350mA? Presumably, your phone discharged to SOME extent during that drop, so one would have to assume 1215mA and that it is measuring off of a 1350mA maximum. However, I think the general consensus for people with "battery issues" is that the first 10% goes the fastest, which would suggest it is measuring off of a 1500mA scale. So what is it? (disclaimer, I don't know if the percent remaining is actually in mA, but the logic remains)

    Is the phone discharging at an abnormally high rate when it is at 100%? This seems unlikely, but possible, I suppose.

    Is the phone charging to 1350mA, calling it 100%, then rating the other 99% against a 1500mA scale? This wouldn't explain why my battery has shown 95-99% before. The drop in percentage should be bigger and more immediate.

    Is the phone charging to 100%, then discharging while still plugged in, and not recharging until dropping to a certain level? I see this as the most likely scenrio. It explains a lot of things: Plugging and unplugging when it shows full would force the phone to refill whatever it discharged while connected. Charging while it is off would mean that when it started discharging, it did so at a slower rate than if the phone was on. It explains the battery conditioning trick. It even accounts for how random the battery might behave depending on how long it sits after reaching 100%.

    I think the other issue is that the phone doesn't do a very good job of reporting the actual battery level. The first 10%, the middle 10%, and the last 10% seem to discharge at different speeds.

    What I have concluded, personally, is that there are far too many factors throughout the course of a day to determine if some little trick in the morning actually had an effect. I have 60 apps (fewer than lots of people on here), I make different phone calls each day, I view different pages, send more/fewer texts, play different games, listen to varying amounts of music, and get a better or worse signal throughout the day. Too much for me to pin a better battery day on when I plugged/unplugged my phone. If people can settle in to a rhythm that gets them all of the battery they need everyday, then that is great for them. I have and, other than a passing glance, I don't really spend time every morning or throughout the day trying to trick my battery in to a little extra juice (regardless of whether or not it has an effect). I'm not saying these little tips/tricks are wrong, bad, or contain false claims; I'm just saying they haven't definitively shown any value to me and my usage patterns.


    Edit: Sorry for the Wall of Text
     
  19. Rigmaster

    Rigmaster Well-Known Member

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    We're reading the same book and on the same page, just not at the same line. Yet.

    I cannot prove/disprove all the tips. I can only say that no single tip has worked or proven to be the answer. The problem then is not the tips. The tips are trying to solve a problem that they cannot solve.

    I doubt (but cannot prove because I don't have the proper test equipment or full technical knowledge of the Evo) that phone uses battery sigficantly more or less at any particular point of use. I do know that it may seem that way. Gas mileage always seems better when the tank is full and not as good when the tank is low. The fuel usage doesn't change, but our perception may. Why - well the full line on the fuel gauge doesn't exactly mean full. That's why you can always get a little bit more in by topping off even when the gauge says full. It's also why you can usually get a few extra miles (thankfully) even when you're on Empty. There's a built-in but not disclosed to the car driver reserve that usually is an extra gallon-ish designed to give you enough cushion to make it to the next gas station or at least get off the road and out of harm's way.

    On Evo, the fuel meter acts differently in 2 ways. #1 it cuts off recharge once it hits full. Whether the battery is full or not is irrelevant. It's what the meter says, and you cannot top-off past it. You can top-off too it, but not past it. That it why one of the tips to keep plugging and unplugging has the same feel as topping off at a gas station. Each plug/unplug cycle just inches closer to the metered full. The battery may not be full. #2 as the battery discharges, it also shows empty (the bottom 10%) but far more commonly there are other things running in the background that continue to draw despite us believing we have shut things down. Using the car/gas example, our mileage may not change when it comes to how the engine is working, but if we have a little extra weight or drive with the windows down while at empty, it uses fuel faster. I'm convinced that's why drain seems to happen so fast at the end of cycles. There are so many things running with Sense, apps, and on the phone in general that we just aren't able to shut them all down to get more life out of the battery. The use is more and faster because we've turned more of them on throughout that day.

    This explains why people who just turn the phone on and leave it in airplane mode get days of battery life.

    Until the Evo software is addressed, I think the only way to get a complete charge is outside the phone. External chargers will charge completely and once the battery is fully charged, external chargers then have transformers that take the rejected, unnecessary, excess charge and convert it to heat. The battery is never at risk.

    That said, it's a PITA to remove the battery from this phone so I'd rather see the software fix asap. This is something I think HTC or Sprint should have even paid someone at XDA or somewhere else to do already. I'm thinking they've pinned a lot of hopes on it being a part of Froyo rather than addressing individually.
     
  20. bvbull200

    bvbull200 Banned

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    And trust me, I'm not completely discounting your original analysis. In its simplest form, the gas analogy is pretty good, I was just expanding on it to include other factors.

    If it only charges to an actual 95%, then what does the visible 100% mean? If the visible drops to 90%, did the actual drop 10% of its total down to 86.5%? That is why I'm saying that there is likely a monitoring "issue" as well. I don't think that, all else equal, the battery actually discharges faster or slower depending on its level of charge, but I do think that the reporting, at times, makes it appear as though that is the case. The charge remaining (as reflected by a percentage) is merely a measure of relevance to me and I don't take it as an absolute truth. I think that there is way to much that goes in to why your phone might show 90% (including a very vague meter on the phone's part), to suggest that certain remedies can definitively add real power or measurable life to your battery. If one were to use his/her phone in the EXACT same fashion, under the EXACT same conditions, with the EXACT same settings, I honestly believe that the results would be negligible.

    The only one that seems to make sense to me and has suggested to me that it may hold some water is unplugging right when it reaches a full charge, so that it isn't sitting on the charger, yet discharging. Even that, though, could be a placebo effect that I would be willing to admit to.
     
  21. Rigmaster

    Rigmaster Well-Known Member

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    I have tested under the exact same conditions (which ruled out using the internet). That's how I got to thinking it's a meter/software issue. I do not believe the battery ever reaches true 100% charged, it's just that the meter stops at 95% but registers at 100%. Then as the phone quickly drops, it drops back to 90%-ish until it stabilizes. If the car stopped filling exactly at Full, it would show an immediate drop. However, the car does not stop even though the Full line can only go so far above fill. It would be no different than if the pump stopped and then someone hand-poured to top-off the tank. The full line would still show only Full while the tank would actually have been filled to True Full capacity.

    What I don't like about the unplug right after discharge is that it still does not mean the battery is full. It only means we stop charging in recognition that the phone has stopped taking charge. At the gas station, I stop pumping when the pump auto-shutoff kicks in. I know my tank is not full even though it's reached the Full line on the gauge.

    Evo's just like that.

    I'm thinking the software code fix will basically have to instruct the meter to stop charging at 110% instead of 100%. Should be an easy re-write.
     
  22. meangreengdub

    meangreengdub Well-Known Member

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    This make sense and I want to try it but like many of you, I use my Evo as my alarm clock. Knowing that, is there an app that will wake your phone up from sleeping and have ur alarm go off?

    I had an old Samsung flip phone as my first phone that would turn on and the alarm go off if the phone was shut off.
     
  23. stainlessray

    stainlessray Well-Known Member

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    I tried it exactly as posted. No dice. I'm leaning towards a problem with the way my phone reads the battery, or something else within the phone draining it faster than normal or even a bad memory card which some say can cause my problem. i ordered a couple new batteries, and external charger to find out for sure it isn't the battery itself, but i doubt it. i had the batt tested at a tech store. it was fine. after that, i'm going to sprint for help.
     
  24. Zumi

    Zumi Well-Known Member

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    Tried this as well over night - I turned off my phone, plugged it in to charge on the USB cord attached to my computer. Woke up, turned the phone on with it still connected while I showered.


    I then came back, unplugged it and the battery dropped to 95% within 30 mins of no usage. :(

    I'm now at 93% after going in, turning off wifi since I'm at work and they block every darn thing.

    Should I try letting the battery drop really low from my normal usage (sirius xm streaming all day etc?) and then turn it off and charge it? I was at 75% or so last night when I tried this.
     
  25. Rigmaster

    Rigmaster Well-Known Member

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    You are not conditioning the battery. What you're trying to do is calibrate the phone software setting to match the level of battery capacity.

    Use your phone and allow it to completely discharge to the point of shutoff. Recharge it to full (green light) and remove from charger. Boot up and reuse as normal. This allows the battery to fully charge and the phone software to reset the meter to check for battery charge. Use as normal and then repeat this process.

    If you need to use your phone throughout the day, you can do this process any time, but it's key to make sure the phone does a full discharge. You should not allow it to recharge overnight and then try to top-off.

    External battery chargers can do full charges and maintain maximum fill because they have trickle-charge capability and are not software controlled like the phone. The phone software is the problem with getting and maintaining a full charge.
     

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