big brother?


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  1. _kweso

    _kweso Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    hi,
    i really learn to love android. especially the "equality" of the applications. and i am fascinated by the possibilities of this open software system in combination with 3g and gps.
    but what concernes me is how transparent i will be. so i just wanted to know what you think. will i be totally manipulated by advertisement because the big companies know every step i make and where i make it? will i be surveiled by my insurance companies?
    maybe some of you will say that they have nothing to hide. but even then...

    so how mighty is goolge (or can it get)?

    thx
    kws
     

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  2. _kweso

    _kweso Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    maybe two years later someone has an opinion on this matter ;)

    hf
    kws
     
  3. dan330

    dan330 Well-Known Member

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    skynet.... where is john conner?
     
  4. snapper.fishes

    snapper.fishes Well-Known Member

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    Hot dang. You just broke the world necro record.

    Hmmm....Google definitely collects usage data, and a lot of 3rd party apps collect location info for advertising purpose. You can tell what kind of data 3rd party apps collect from you by looking at the permission page. As for Google.... well, it's safer to assume that they know pretty much everything you do on your phone.

    So yeah, if you own an Android, Google owns you.
     
  5. takeshi

    takeshi Well-Known Member

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    I can't speak as to whether you're susceptible to manipulation or not. That's something that you'd have to answer.

    Doubtful. How would they surveil you? Google isn't an insurance company.

    This is really all too vague to even discuss properly. Bring up some specific privacy concerns and you'll have a topic that can be discussed. If you're trolling for tinhat fodder there are plenty of existing threads with this kind of stuff.
     
  6. _kweso

    _kweso Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    hello,
    i do not want to troll at all. i'll try to explain:
    first: i think that every human is susceptible to manipulation. one more the
    other less. one would be a fool to think he is not. and the more complex the
    media gets the more likely is it that we won't be able to see "the hole
    picture". and as the medias knowledge of you increases we are more likely
    to fall for it.

    but there is a second thought. i do not know where google decides between
    google inc, partners and third party. lets say they know that i like
    freeclimbing, car racing, sm-sex and alcohol and google is to slip (legally or
    illegaly, free or paid, intentionally or not) this information to a "third party".
    this other company may have the means to connect this data to my identity
    (if it is not already connected). and they sell it to health insurance
    companies. now i want to change my insurance and the companies check
    my data in their bought database and see, that i am living very dangerously.
    therefore i'll have to pay more for my insurance and will event not be aware
    of that. and in fact, actually i am not living this dangerously as my interests
    may suggest.

    and incidents like "'accidently' collecting wifi data while taking street view
    pictures" made me suspicious about google and it's "don't be evil"...

    thats just my thoughts. and i thought mybe there are others here that have
    an opinion, maybe experiences or even professional authority in the suspect
    of privacy...

    anyway
    thanks
    kws
     
  7. txrxio

    txrxio Well-Known Member

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    I've heard this a lot lately, but I can't connect it. Where's the evil?
     
  8. lunatic59

    lunatic59 Moderati ergo sum Moderator

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    I take issue with your use of the word "manipulation". It has deliberate misleading connotations as if Google and its partners are scamming their customers. If a person is more susceptible to influence from the media, then they should limit their exposure or take precautions to avoid undue influence. I am sure there are companies and individuals who will leverage the personal information about a specific target demographic to apply as much influence as possible to promote whatever agenda they may have, whether it is to sell a product, sway an opinion or evoke an emotion. It's not any different from hucksters and snake oil salesman. P.T. Barnum was right, BTW.

    The information Google provides is generally in accordance with the local laws, in as far as it's possible to comply with every statute and addendum on every bill passed globally. If they've got personal information about you, it is either anonymous statistics or you have (either knowingly or inadvertently) given them permission to have it. If it comes back to bite you, most likely it is in the category of "people are idiots who want a nanny state to protect them from the big bullies," or "I want to do whatever I want with no consequences."

    If you apply for a loan, the lender is going to check your credit. If you get stopped for a traffic citation, the local authorities will check if you have a criminal record. If you make a phone call the utility will log the source, destination, route and duration of the connection. And all this data collection happens without Google. Are we worried about these entities surveilling us too?

    With your insurance example, it's not likely that the insurance company could identify an individual and link the information to the person. Nor would it be legal to base an approval, denial or premium rate on such information. What they do is establish criteria basted on the actuarial tables and demographics and apply them to you as you fit into a certain group. To use your example, they would analyze the data and if there was a correlation between car racing and alcohol use, they would see if there were any other commonalities with those two activities and if they found that a certain percentage of people who participated in them also showed interest in sm-sex, then they could examine their income to liability ratio and adjust the premiums accordingly based on how well you fit the profile. Over a small sampling of people, it would prove to be a fruitless exercise, but when applied to a large model, they could accurately anticipate their P/L and move the business in the direction needed to remain profitable. They wouldn't single you out, personally.

    I understand protecting personal information to keep a company from leveraging its position against you, but are you saying that it is equally reasonable to be able to misrepresent yourself indiscriminately because they don't have that data? Really, other than knowing you represent a specific liability (which you do, if their information is correct) what would be the benefit to you of them NOT having the data?

    You do understand exactly what happened, right? The people collecting the street view information were simultaneous logging the images with gps coordinates and public WiFi locations to provide the most accurate way of delivering location information to the consumer. When their radios encountered a private, unsecured network that was broadcasting a ssid, it attempted to connect, as the technology is designed to do, and logged the information including any discoverable devices on that network. They even maintained to retain data packets from these private networks, because that's all part of the handshake/discovery process. When they dumped the data back to the servers for analysis they shoveled the extraneous data to a backup and removed it from the public database (because, as any database administrator learns ... sometimes catastrophically ... you never delete anything without a backup). They took the mea culpa on that one but not because they were sneaking about peering in people's networks, but because they were careless enough to not have protocols in place to keep people from being careless with their personal data.

    Let's say I am collecting trash in your neighborhood ... the old bag over-the-shoulder and a nail on a stick. And, you have discarded sensitive bank records in your trash, expecting them never to be seen my anyone before they are destroyed in the landfill. The wind blows your trash can over and while I am walking around I pick up all the paper on the block. When I get back to the truck and begin separating the recyclables, i notice the bank slips and see there is legible information on them. I throw them in to the "trash" bin instead of the recycling bin.

    Now, I have your data without your permission from the moment I picked it up. Should I be held liable for having it, even though i didn't know what it was? And after I knew what it was, am i responsible to destroy it so that it is secure for you? Or, am i supposed to carry around a paper shredder in my sack, just on the off chance that someone's sensitive personal information is laying about on the street?

    We live in the information age. To some degree, all information collected about you will be used to your benefit or detriment, whether it is Google, Microsoft, Apple, the IRS, Facebook or your Aunt Martha collecting it.
     
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  9. dan330

    dan330 Well-Known Member

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    OP... i hear what you are saying.. and to some extent it might be true.
    it might be as bad as you say... or none .. or something in between.

    some people are more susceptible to marketing/brainwashing/manipulation than others. but we are all to some degree ..susceptible. the one that are more so.. will not admit it and stay away from the influence!!

    if it happens .. we can not stop it..
    what u going to do? hide in the mountains? cut off all communication???
     
  10. AngryHatter

    AngryHatter Well-Known Member

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    If someone sold your information illegally they'd be out of business in a heartbeat.
    You are overly concerned. in my opinion.
     
  11. NatesMom

    NatesMom Well-Known Member

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    I remember reading an article last year where the top 3 in Google (Page, Brin, and Schmidt) were discussing privacy and data collection. They were struggling with retaining their competitive edge without violating the rights of users, while seeing their competitors (i.e. Facebook) gain advantage by rather unscrupulous means.

    I think the fact that they were even having the conversation makes me worry less about them than other big entities we interact with in our daily lives.
     
  12. _kweso

    _kweso Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    damn it. i just wrote a detailed reply to all of you. and i deleted it by accidently closing the tab. for now and tonight (11pm here in austria) i do not want to repeat everything. but i will eventually. tomorrow.

    thank you already for your thoughts...
    gnite
    kweso
     

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