Calling All Grammar Nazi's

[EarlyMon]

Flamer bait.

Nope.

 

[Dngrsone]

Yet the rules of grammar reign supreme, my friend.

Except when they don't.

Extra points to you for proper usage/spelling of 'reign', though.

 

[davoid]

So a title may be correct in the sense that it conveys what the author wants it to convey ("Inglourious Basterds", for example), yet it may still consist of incorrect grammar and/or spelling.

I was thinking to use that movie as an example. I would go so far as to say that titles have their own rules (or none at all - beyond comprehension.) Most comprise noun phrases without a single verb being present, or at best, sentence fragments.

However, who's to say what is correct and what is not? We certainly do not speak English in the same way that those living in the 17th century did. Was their English "wrong"? Is ours, given that we took liberties and changed it?

Hmm.

Indeed. If you've read through the thread, you'll have found the same questions arrived at repeatedly. I think the conclusion is that English is a living language and its very adaptability is what makes it so great as an expressive tool. The main need for grammar is clarity of meaning.

It's the difference between knowing your sh*t and knowing you're sh*t.

 

[EarlyMon]

http://www.grammar-monster.com/lessons/apostrophes_show_plural_of_abbreviations.htm

http://public.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/acronyms.html

Nazi's vs Nazis is not unlike putting a comma outside of a closing quotation mark.

It's perfectly acceptable when it's an aid to the user even if not canonically correct.

I submit that the z and s are challenging enough in proximity given that many people are somewhat dyslexic, more so when scanning rather than reading, as is done for headlines.

 

[Stuntman]

Yet the rules of grammar reign supreme, my friend. They are not relative, even in the case of exceptions to the rule ("i" before "e" except after "c" always holds true, for example, in the English language).

The entire rhyme is

i before e,
Except after c,
Or when sounded as "a,"
As in neighbour and weigh.

 

[EarlyMon]

The entire rhyme is

i before e,
Except after c,
Or when sounded as "a,"
As in neighbour and way.

Fixed so as to be more thread-appropriate.

Thanks though, I'd never heard the full rhyme before.

 

[HanSolo]

The entire rhyme is

i before e,
Except after c,
Or when sounded as "a,"
As in neighbour and weigh.

Wow, great nugget, which proves that English is a schizophrenic language. There is no "real" or "unreal". Anything goes.

I feel badly for those who learn it as a second language; they think they've mastered a rule and are then smacked in the face with an exception.

 

[zuben el genub]

Wow, great nugget, which proves that English is a schizophrenic language. There is no "real" or "unreal". Anything goes.

I feel badly for those who learn it as a second language; they think they've mastered a rule and are then smacked in the face with an exception.

You can still give them George Bernard Shaw's GHOTI which sounds like fish.

 

[zuben el genub]

Another article on the loss of the comma:

Comma usage rules are unclear. Could the punctuation mark die out completely?

 

[HanSolo]

Another article on the loss of the comma:

Comma usage rules are unclear. Could the punctuation mark die out completely?

The comma? I still miss the semicolon. No one knows how to use it; they are either afraid of using it incorrectly, or they forget it exists altogether.

 

[EarlyMon]

The comma? I still miss the semicolon. No one knows how to use it; they are either afraid of using it incorrectly, or they forget it exists altogether.

No one? Really? No one?

Please address those without the benefit of sentence diagramming in their primary education.

 

[davoid]

The comma? I still miss the semicolon. No one knows how to use it; they are either afraid of using it incorrectly, or they forget it exists altogether.

Very few people here in the UK know how to use it, true, but its problem is it's too subtle and unnecessary; it can easily be replaced by a period.

Yes, people are probably afraid of incorrect usage. If they remember or even know it exists, they were probably not taught its usage to any degree of competence. Hence its absolute avoidance. Understandable really.

Although it is a shame when the language loses some sophistication, it is merely a stylistic nicety in its subtlest function; it only aids clarity of meaning when used as a separator in a list of complex items. Unfortunately this practical aspect of the semicolon is overshadowed by its more difficult and esoteric usage as an indicator of relatedness.

As I said, it is easily replaced by a period; the relatedness of the two clauses is readily inferred when they are presented as two sentences.

As I said, it is easily replaced by a period. The relatedness of the two clauses is readily inferred when they are presented as two sentences. The only difference is the formal signposting of the relationship.

It seems pointless and difficult to learn, and I'm sure its high formality is a revulsion to most young people, signifying conformity at its most sublime. If the comma is getting the boot, the semicolon has no chance.

 

[EarlyMon]

86% of all statistics are made up.

 

[Unforgiven]

86% of all statistics are made up.

Prove that

It's like Statistics don't lie, but you can lie with statistics. 50% of the time that's 100% right.:vroam:

 

[EarlyMon]

Prove that

Gladly.

Just as soon as substantiation is provided for the ongoing claims that the vast majority of people don't know how to use the semicolon.

 

[davoid]

Gladly.

Just as soon as substantiation is provided for the ongoing claims that the vast majority of people don't know how to use the semicolon.

I realize now I made a mistake believing it was the general trend in English speaking countries. I can only speak for us Brits. We are not taught grammar in school. I gathered from your earlier comment about sentence diagramming that education in the US addresses the subject. Not so over here. I personally don't know anyone who knows how to use the semicolon apart from myself, and I taught myself.

And as for sentence diagramming. What is that? Not something British citizens would know outside of a related academic field.

I never realized we were the most backward in teaching our own language.

 

[EarlyMon]

It's a lost art over here, I had to teach my kids.

Sentence diagramming is highly effective although it's not easy.

http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/diagrams/diagrams.htm

Using semicolons isn't hard; although, I tend to avoid them when posting from a glass keyboard because it's slower.

http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/semicolons.asp

And for all I know, most everyone now is ignorant of its proper uses.

I just felt like being contrary.

 

[SiempreTuna]

I was never taught grammar in school either and it's been a real problem when trying (and mostly failing) to learn foreign languages.

Completely changing the subject though, I hate how proper past participle (? wild guess re grammatical terminology there ?) words like 'lit' and 'pled' are being replaced (on the BBC ) with totally incorrect / out of context ones like 'lighted' and 'pleaded', e.g.:

"She lighted a cigarette"

"He pleaded guilty"

No. Just No.

"She lit a cigarette"

"He pled guilty"

 

[EarlyMon]

I've always heard and said, "lit a cigarette," but I have an untold number of books going back to the 30s where they've written, "lighted a cigarette."

That's always looked wrong but author after author has used it that way.

Dashiell Hammett had Sam Spade do on page 51 of The Maltese Falcon.

http://books.google.com/books?id=Bhv0AAAAQBAJ&pg=PA51

I've always heard and said, "pleaded guilty."

So did Perry Mason, according to Erle Stanley Gardner in The Case of the One-Eyed Witness.

 

[huh]

It's a lost art over here, I had to teach my kids.

Sentence diagramming is highly effective although it's not easy.

http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/diagrams/diagrams.htm

Using semicolons isn't hard; although, I tend to avoid them when posting from a glass keyboard because it's slower.

http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/semicolons.asp

And for all I know, most everyone now is ignorant of its proper uses.

I just felt like being contrary.

Oh my gosh! I remember having to do that in grade school and complaining that it was such a waste of time and obsolete! Much to my dismay, and ego, it actually came in quite handy when we had to do similar diagraming structures in a linguistics course in college. I remember the students who never had to do the sentence diagraming in lower school had a harder time grasping the whole concept of what we were doing in the linguistics course. I guess that'll learn me to complain

 

[Dngrsone]

I guess I should be happy I did not take linguistics in college, then...

Though I really did want to.

 

[mrex]

Never seen those! Looks more like physics, a circuit diagram, lol!

 

[HanSolo]

Very few people here in the UK know how to use it, true, but its problem is it's too subtle and unnecessary; it can easily be replaced by a period.

You do realize, don't you, the irony?

 

[EarlyMon]

You do realize, don't you, the irony?

I'm sure he did - I mimicked it in my post above when I said it was difficult to use from a glass keyboard.

You might want to read through the thread.

There may be more than meets the eye at a glance.

 

[EarlyMon]

Never seen those! Looks more like physics, a circuit diagram, lol!

There are no atheists in foxholes!