I suppose this is the right place for such an off-topic topic, so here goes. Both my wife and I were in the market for new cars. She wanted the Ford Edge, and I wanted the Fusion. Before anyone asks, no, we're not Ford people. But it is funny how this worked out, because nearly ten years ago she wanted a Sunfire and I wanted a Grand-Am (both Pontiacs). Between then and now, we've generally been on different makes. I'm not a haggler. So, I assumed for her Edge we'd pay sticker (minus incentives, then add in TTL) minus trade-in based on KBB. Since no haggling would be involved, she went to the dealership herself. Sticker on the Edge she wanted was $41,400 (Limited nearly fully loaded). They offered her $14,000 in trade for her 2010 Mazda 3 5-door grand touring fully loaded (minus navigation). She called me and I said "come home now." When she came home, I looked at KBB and saw that they offered her $4.6k below trade in. I also saw that they marked up the sticker, gave her the $3k in incentives available at the time (counting military discount, since we're dual military), and wanted her to pay $40,100. That meant they marked up the price $2k to pad their profit. The next day I went in there with her and told them that they had to offer us fair trade-in before we even start haggling on anything else. They immediately went up to $17k. I said, "No, KBB says $18.6k, that's what we'll take." They said, "Oh, we use NADA, and it says $16.5k." I pulled out my phone and pulled up NADA, which said $18.3k, then walked out. I don't like being lied to. Business is business, but conduct it ethically. Well, I bank (and insure) through USAA. They turned me on to their car buying service. We tried it and got an offer on a Ford Edge, same specs, for $37.5k BEFORE incentives. We custom ordered it (6-8 week wait, no dealer emblem, less than 15 miles, no test drives from other people, etc.). Incentives can bring it down another $2-3k. Man, I wish I had considered internet ordering before. Cheaper prices, no haggling, and best of all, no car salesman! So, I wanted to do the same for my Fusion, but I had promised the prior salesman that they would get first crack at me, despite my disagreement with them. I'm a man of my word, so I had to follow through. I did some research and specced out the Fusion I wanted. Sticker was $27.2k. I told them that I'd pay $25.3k before incentives, which is $300 over invoice. I also told them that they would give me $11.5k for my 2008 Pontiac G6 GT (high miles), because that is what NADA states, and according to them, that's what they use as a reference. I then said, "Yes or no, no haggling, you saw me walk before, I will walk again." They're supposed to have an answer for me tomorrow. Funny thing is, there's a moral to this story. Don't cheat a guaranteed customer! When we walked in, they had two guaranteed sales at STICKER price. We were IDIOTS! And what did they do? They tried to pad the sale with extra profit on both ends. Not the normal $1k or so, but nearly $7k! Even we weren't that dumb! So they converted us to internet buyers, immediately lost one sale, and likely will lose the 2nd. If they get the 2nd sale, they'll be selling it just above invoice, meaning nowhere near the commission they would have originally received. So let's do the math. They tried to pad one sale by $4.6k on one end and $2k on another. By doing so, they lost out on a sale of $3.5k over invoice, a 2nd sale of $2k over invoice (keep in mind that with dealer holdbacks, they get more than that), and converted two idiots into internet buyers for life which further screws over car salesmen. Good job Roundtree Ford!