Dalvik-Cache: Fatal design flaw or just boneheaded oversight?


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  1. Afteraffekt

    Afteraffekt Well-Known Member

    You are a flipping troll, even if you believe what you are saying lol! Trident, Savoxis, Death2all are all Rom developers for the Ally and other phones... So how can you say we dont know what we are doing, when everything you have learned about the ally you learned from us?
    inception likes this.
  2. inception

    inception Active Member

    nevermind. kthxbai
  3. flyinjoe13

    flyinjoe13 Well-Known Member

    Afteraffekt,

    I hope your response was sarcasm because I was resonpding to what FalconFour said about me not using many apps or knowing how to hack an android phone. I was in no way putting down any of the developers.

    Guess I should have quoted the response I was responding to so that my intentions were more clear.
  4. savoxis

    savoxis Well-Known Member Developer


    I really do appologize if this comes out wrong, but you REALLY, REALLY, REALLY dont get it, So, im gunna say this slow.


    YOUR
    DALVIK CACHE
    DOES
    NOT
    GROW
    UNLESS
    YOU
    INSTALL
    APPLICATIONS!
    inception likes this.
  5. inception

    inception Active Member

    Oh. Haha, I just read a few posts up, and realized it. My bad.
  6. Afteraffekt

    Afteraffekt Well-Known Member

    Sorry flyingjoe, i quoted the wrong post!

    This topic is so fail it wins
    inception likes this.
  7. Tempusfugit

    Tempusfugit Well-Known Member

    Almost everything you talked about in your "google search research" about dalvik cache was relating to clearing dalvik to install a rom, or moving it for internal space.. None of it says dalvik is flawed.

    Your bottom of the barrell android phone =/= Android OS... I think maybe this is the confusion were having Falcon.

    I have well over 100 downloaded apps. I've moved dalvik cache to /cache, and my cache partition has grown from 80 mb to around 100 mb since I flashed a new rom.

    And I guess I'm in disneyland too, my phone doesn't have force closes or lag either.
  8. FalconFour

    FalconFour Well-Known Member

    (I'll ignore the part about unused apps since I already went over uninstall != removes dalvik-cache entry...)

    So, you're saying... you... have to go into recovery... and wipe Dalvik-Cache...

    ...

    AND THIS IS "STOCK BEHAVIOR"?! That's the ENTIRE RANT of this topic... that you have to root your phone and perform very non-standard operations in order to maintain any level of sanity in the data department. A normal user, one who installs as many apps as the phone can hold, will not be able to use all their storage since D-C is needlessly wasting all their storage and they can't clear it. Myself, I KNOW about wiping Dalvik-Cache, that was half the point of OP. I've done it, it freed up a crapload of valuable space. But the fact is that it does NOT maintain itself, it requires someone to manually (and "un-supportedly") completely wipe the cache in order to regain the space wasted by the cache's unused files. There's the rant. Can you address that?
  9. inception

    inception Active Member

    Well, that sucks for you, if you don't have your phone rooted, BECAUSE GOOGLE NEVER INTENDED FOR IT'S DAMN USERS TO HAVE THEM ROOTED. It isn't that complicated. Now, if they DID want them to have it rooted, it may be a different story, due to the fact that they would have the ACTUAL ABILITY TO CLEAR IT. There are limitations in the Android system, and your going to have to learn to accept that.
    /facepalm
  10. FalconFour

    FalconFour Well-Known Member

    I seriously just read the last few posts, tossed my empty soda cup backwards, and simply said out loud, to my computer,

    "What the f*** is wrong with these people?!"

    Please? Please? Please someone tell me... what... where... can we please get in a Skype chat or something? Something non-text based? Video chat? I can host it. I just don't get it. Maybe we're hitting a communications gap here. This just doesn't make any sense. I don't get it at all, how are you all missing the point? How are you all so vehemently denying the existence of this flaw? It's sitting right there, you're even confirming it by even talking about rooted phones or clearing the D-C folder... I'm just...

    DUMBFOUNDED!

    Skype group audio chat. I'm all for it. falconiv. I'm online. Please, this is insanity!
  11. j2cool2012

    j2cool2012 Well-Known Member Developer


    Pretty sure a "normal user" won't really care.
    inception likes this.
  12. FalconFour

    FalconFour Well-Known Member

    I'm almost in tears here... THAT'S THE FRICKIN' POINT! Not intended to be... I... just... YES! DUH! I... how are you...

    *crying*

    It's not April 1 yet... why are you all doing this to me...
  13. dots

    dots Well-Known Member

    I'd love to see your response to savoxis first post cause it makes 100% sense to me. ;)
  14. Tempusfugit

    Tempusfugit Well-Known Member

    Ok, I see the problem now.

    Go outside and have this conversation with a real person. If they agree with you, come back and start spouting more nonsense.

    But so far its you and your computer on one side, and the rest of the world on the other... Maybe you should ask the computer what's wrong with you instead of everyone else?
    j2cool2012 likes this.
  15. FalconFour

    FalconFour Well-Known Member

    Done! Looking it up now. I'm just so... completely flabbergasted here. I don't get where the point is being missed. Everything I wrote up is inherent to every Android phone using Dalvik-Cache... and no point of it is subject to rooting or user preference or misuse or anything... it's just standard (and completely insane) behavior... and I'm just completely lost as to how people are completely, totally, entirely missing the point. I'm dying here, I'll go for anything. Gimme a few, I'll go over that post...
  16. inception

    inception Active Member

    wanna cookie
  17. savoxis

    savoxis Well-Known Member Developer

    If your dalvik-cache is "out of control" and "growing on its own" YOU my friend are doing something wrong.

    Dalvik-cache only gets larger when you install apps.

    Ill say it again incase you missed it

    Dalvik-cache only gets larger when you install apps.



    Now.

    Are you absolutely sure your not a moron? Are you sure that its not your cache partition getting full due to downloading a bunch of OTA content with my script and not clearing?

    Are you sure that you are not manually removing applications so the dalvik-cache's dex's stay?

    Are you sure that you dont have some unique android virus creating things in your dalvik-cache?

    Would you like to pay me to write you a useless script that will monitor your dalvik-cache and clear out "outdated" dex files?



    IF this was necessary I would have written a solution. And by that logic I > Google's Developers. So do you really think that if I could make an init script to manage dalvik they would not have?
  18. FalconFour

    FalconFour Well-Known Member

    OK, so explain to me how Android reads minds and knows what I intend to do when I press "Home"? Far as I can tell, it understands "bring home to foreground", and that's it. The rest is up to the built-in task handler. Which means, what if I'm running Pandora? It keeps that app running in the background so it plays music. Cool. What if I'm loading a page in the browser? It... well, I half-expect it to stop loading. But maybe it continues loading. Maybe running a download. What about sending an SMS? It lets it keep sending. Cool. All functioning as intended. Now, what about some misbehaving app? Something that demands too much OS attention, more attention than I want to give it (personally)? Something I just one-off launched, didn't like, now "go away"? It keeps running. It'll keep running, too, if it wants to keep polling a network resource for updates. Or wants to keep monitoring for input. So, say I started running some Twitter app, and signed in. Bleh, I don't like twitter, I go back home. It keeps running. Facebook. It keeps running, polling, waking the phone to do its updates. It doesn't go to sleep, it doesn't yield to other apps, unless I open another huge app like Angry Birds. How does Angry Birds know if I want to pause the game for a quick detour then get right back to it, or if I'm done playing and want to exit? None of that stuff can be known without reading my mind. None of that stuff can be relayed to the task handler without a task killer, a way for me to say "I'm done with all that other crap, clear your mind and let me take control".

    True in terms of how the cache works. Not so true in terms of its flaws. In my use, D-C has always left "dex" (I'm assuming - I haven't cracked up my cache folder in a while) files laying around even when the app is uninstalled via Market, or via Manage Apps. I've NEVER removed an app by deleting it via root methods. Ever. Except the ones removed via Velocity's script (removing unwanted system apps). I'm not counting those files. I'm talking about the fact that D-C never prunes itself, never maintains itself, never removes old and unused cache files (old app versions, unused apps, etc), and just keeps growing. It grows to over 70% of the size of the user data partition, which is... well... supposed to be for user data. Dalvik-Cache is a system function, and in fact, it's a cache function... so that poses two questions: 1) why isn't it stored in CACHE, like its function implies? And 2) Why doesn't it maintain itself?

    I'm a little curious by the comments that uninstalling an app also deletes its cache entry, though. Obviously my phone wasn't doing that (UNrooted, UNmodified). And it was doing that routinely, even after factory-restores. That can't possibly be normal behavior. OK, so uninstalls may clear the related dex files, but what about updates? The cache would be different, does it delete the old cache file? It's so rare that a cache file is deleted... has anyone even done any research into how the folder's contents change when an app is updated, not just uninstalled?

    Hopefully the "OMG troll?!" comments have come to an end, though... they're really just confusing the hell outta me. I'm on your side here, guys... only thing I'm trying to contribute here is a concrete problem, and working to present a solution... I don't get why everyone is denying the very existence of the problem itself. :confused:
  19. FalconFour

    FalconFour Well-Known Member

    Just to respond to this post: I covered a lot of this in my latest reply. But to individually address in brief:
    - No, it also grows to create cache files for apps built into the system, so as those apps are launched the Dalvik-Cache will also continue to grow with no apps installed. After all, the Dalvik-Cache needs to create a dex for every apk in use, so as system apk's are launched, a dex file will be created as well. Sadly, none will be deleted even if you never touch that app again.
    - absolutely sure I'm not a moron? Yep, pretty sure. I've lived with my Ally for almost a year now, and I've studied its behavior, as well as contributed to revealing a few other UI flaws in Android that just make for a "rough around the edges" experience. Things that slipped through the cracks, but should be easy to fix - some of which have been since I posted them.
    - no, I'm not manually removing APKs - the dex files just linger around, but at any rate there's no reason 25mb of apps should ever create 80mb of Dalvik-Cache.
    - I'm tempted to take you up on the dalvik-monitoring script, but the fact is, I know how to clear my D-C... it's just something I shouldn't have to maintain myself. It should have limits.

    edit: also...
    - yes, I do believe Google overlooked Dalvik-Cache maintenance entirely, and that's the point of this topic. Yes, D-C serves a purpose, but it runs in a "free-wheeling" mode that allows it to balloon to ridiculous sizes, eclipsing the apps it's supposed to be serving (caching). That's what I'm ranting about in this topic, that after all these Android versions, D-C is still as flawed as it was from the start, with no oversight and no management to keep it in "cache" terms... to keep it from taking over the whole /data partition. How big is your Dalvik-Cache, compared to the apps folder?
  20. truelefty4

    truelefty4 Active Member





    Really ?
    Personally I just think your stupid
    2nd:I know how to solve you your problem and ours
    1.Go to your profile
    2.Logout
    3.Go to your browser settings
    4.Go to Browser history
    5.CLEAR/DELETE Browser history
    6.NEVER COME BACK HERE again

    Now if you are following these steps it well help a lot of people
    j2cool2012 likes this.
  21. savoxis

    savoxis Well-Known Member Developer

    Dont use improperly coded applications, your right they are out there, but that isnt androids fault, they have throughly documented how to write applications that conform to the lifecyle.

    As for applications like Twitter and Facebook, well first let me just say, if you run a task killer and see apps "running" that doesnt mean they are in the Foreground or Service lifecyle. Applications that are suspended will also show in this list, that DOESNT mean they are eating up resources. Anyway, applications like twitter and facebook are written correctly so they are suspended when not in use, they will come alive to sync if they are in the background, but you can easily turn this off.

    And I answered you dalvik concerns a few times.


    As much as I would like to continue this class, I am done feeding this fire and have much more productive things to be doing. Im sorry you are confused and dont understand how things work. I tried to help you but you obviously have formed your own concepts and ideas of how these things work.
    j2cool2012 and inception like this.
  22. FalconFour

    FalconFour Well-Known Member

    Still doesn't address the issue of "not being able to read my mind"... actually it doesn't address anything I even mentioned. I'm not forming my own concepts and ideas here either... it's pretty easy to "ls -l" the data/dalvik-cache folder and see what's left behind in there.

    Maybe I'm just writing too many words, people are just skimming?

    Either way, I'm starting to "report" posts that are just abusive spam (like "never come here again")... at least I have some level of defense against this insanity...
  23. Tempusfugit

    Tempusfugit Well-Known Member

    You don't understand suspended apps....




    and re:linking your name in google.. Wow, you copied hiren, congrats. Guess what we use at work? Hirens, not falconfour.. lol
  24. j2cool2012

    j2cool2012 Well-Known Member Developer

    Congratulations, you spent an entire day arguing on the internet. Don't you feel accomplished?
  25. inception

    inception Active Member

    Okay, I would just like to ask you, one more time, please state what you would like us to address.
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