Days of rooting are going to get tougher

[jhawkkw]

Apparently, the Android 4.4 KitKat update is bringing about major security updates that's suppose to make rooting very difficult on devices with a locked bootloader. It's being done at the kernel level to protect the System files from being altered by a rootkit. Since the su binary has to be placed at the system level for root, you can see where the problem lies. Also, since locked bootloaders prevent flashing new kernels that means you have to root on this tougher stock kernel. It's an easy fix on an unlocked bootloader because all you may need to do is flash a custom kernel through your bootloader to get rid of this security.

See all the details in this article:
Google Taking Aim at Device Modders in Android 4.4 KitKat – xda-developers

 

[Hadron]

Hmm, not good news

 

[pool_shark]

Google is really trying to change their not secure image. Most likely in an attempt to compete with Apple in the workplace.

Plus I believe I read that the government is persuading their personnel from using Android devices.

 

[iowabowtech]

Once Android gets locked down like an iPhone, some people may start buying iPhones.

 

[kate]

Will be interesting to see how long it takes for the Nexus 5 with 4.4 to be rooted.

...and how complicated the process is.

 

[XNES]

a lot of guys think they are taking aim at root users but may just trying to make the Android platform more secure

 

[Digital Controller]

Hmm, this is an interesting decision on Google's part. It seems that they are probably just trying to do something more along the lines of what Apple has done regarding there devices.

No doubt users will find a way around it, it just might take more time.

 

[Hadron]

No, I agree that it's probably not aimed specifically against root users, but we could become collateral damage. I've not followed the story with the S4 closely, but I've seen enough posts in passing to know that Samsung's "knox" system has been causing problems.

 

[BRAINZ2013]

What is it . This is the future wow they really looking to do this i feel if we want to mod root or make calls on the device should be the users choice. If they feel different they should make one for the SLOW people and one for the EXPERIMENTAL user.but this going to far with the slash thing the system can really tell if one is missing ,wow that's not a software that sounds like a dam person .

 

[Slug]

I love the fact that the title is more-or-less contradicted by the first paragraph of the article:

Android 4.4 introduces a number of changes intended to reduce the risks of rootkits on the platform.

So they're not in fact "taking aim at modders" but rather attempting to make the OS more secure. But hey, why let facts get in the way of a catchy headline, huh?

 

[jhawkkw]

Will be interesting to see how long it takes for the Nexus 5 with 4.4 to be rooted.

...and how complicated the process is.

Chainfire already has a CF-Auto root out for it and since the bootloader is unlocked you can just flash a new kernel. This is more meant to secure a device while the bootloader is locked, which is most carrier phones these days.

 

[bjacks12]

If anything, this makes the Nexus a better choice than a carrier supplied phone. But i do disagree with the path Google is taking. If you're going to copy apple, copy the good stuff.

 

[Slug]

This topic is discussing the ramifications, if any, of the new more-secure kernel for rooters and/or modders. Please take debate about other aspects of Android to a more appropriate thread, in order to keep this one focussed.

Thanks.

 

[AntimonyER]

I wonder if they had to do this to make the non-secure element tap and pay work (as in be secure enough to be safe) in wallet?

 

[jhawkkw]

I wonder if they had to do this to make the non-secure element tap and pay work (as in be secure enough to be safe) in wallet?

That is an interesting angle that I had not considered until you mentioned it. Interesting development.

 

[fdbryant3]

Well we can hope that Cyanogen is right and that root is no longer a necessary function. I'd be surprised though if they have really up an end to rooting.

 

[EarlyMon]

Samsung Knox is a sophisticated enterprise security implementation that's been certified for US Department of Defense enterprise use. The DoD has been looking for that solution for quite some time. I can't post the best link due to a Java script session requirement, but if interested in that aspect, Google for -

nist dod knox

Other interesting articles will appear as well.

Android 4.4, as well as a number of custom 4.3 roms, adopt the SELinux model mentioned in the XDA article.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security-Enhanced_Linux

Much of the confusion here for day to day use by rooters is that SELinux doesn't support a root user by default.

Apps that still require su permission have been known to work with those configurations so far by installing SuperSU anyway.

Enterprise use requires administration of the phone by someone not the user and not the carrier. In the past that's been typically impossible for an Android without root, and having end users acting as root users is exactly the opposite of what is required for enterprise management.

If you're an enterprise user this is all good news.

If you're a rooter, the game may or may not change for you.

If you're a basic, non-enterprise, non-rooting user then this represents no change in your vulnerability. Although, there are probably a number of theorists that would argue with that.

The reality is that the numbers show that up until now, Android has been no more susceptible to malware threats than competing solutions.

The myth that Android is less secure than Apple is alive and well but it's simply a myth.

 

[EarlyMon]

This topic is discussing the ramifications, if any, of the new more-secure kernel for rooters and/or modders. Please take debate about other aspects of Android to a more appropriate thread, in order to keep this one focussed.

Thanks.

^ This.

 

[binaryhermit]

The myth that Android is less secure than Apple is alive and well but it's simply a myth.

Well, in a way it is. Apple makes you need to jump through more hoops to do something stupid and get infected. But barring user stupidity, they're equally secure.

EDIT:

Android:
1) Uncheck a checkbox
2) Do something stupid
3) ???
4) Infected

iOS:
1) Jailbreak
2) Do something stupid
3) ???
4) Infected

In my opinion, it's easier to uncheck a checkbox than it is to jailbreak.

 

[EarlyMon]

Both systems are equally susceptible to malware, and cases recorded for each, without rooting, allowing non-market sources, or jailbreaking.

I didn't say Android was more secure - I said it wasn't less.

My statements are based on reported security incidents.

The threat increases for either system based on user actions and in most cases the user provides the number one infection vector - infected apps taken on in the attempt to commit piracy.

Even without that, malware cases remain alive and well for both ecosystems, right from the Play Store and Apple's app store.

Rooting an Android tends to help increase security - users have a higher awareness of root access and have available more tools to combat the problem. Unlike jailbreaking, a rooted Android isn't forced to leave the ecosystem.

To the point at hand - I'm not aware of a single documented case in the wild for Android that will be fixed by the new security scheme.

The press is doing no favors with discussion using a term common to the Sony game station debacle from years ago - and yet now they're discussing the elusive "rootkit."

This new initiative is to open the next market - enterprise sales.

Despite predictions to the contrary, Android grew worldwide by 6% in sales last quarter and commanded over 81% of sales worldwide.

What's next?

The individual user market is going to hit saturation, that cannot be stopped.

Enterprise sales are basically a virgin market territory.

Enterprise requires this change - not some inherent weakness for individuals using Android.

Rooters will have to cope with changes because of that.

 

[jhawkkw]

Rooters will have to cope with changes because of that.

And that is something that many are going to complain about in the near future. A lot of people have gotten so complacent with buying carrier phones at subsidized prices that developers have been able to free up. With these changes, users will be confronted with a choice: Buy the subsidized device and deal with lockdown, or pay full retail for a developer edition/buy a Nexus in order to guarantee that there will be development on your device. Luckily for many, Android has reached a level of maturity that stock roms will satisfy most people.

 

[EarlyMon]

And that is something that many are going to complain about in the near future. A lot of people have gotten so complacent with buying carrier phones at subsidized prices that developers have been able to free up. With these changes, users will be confronted with a choice: Buy the subsidized device and deal with lockdown, or pay full retail for a developer edition/buy a Nexus in order to guarantee that there will be development on your device. Luckily for many, Android has reached a level of maturity that stock roms will satisfy most people.

That and we have no indication that all makers are committed to a final, absolute lock down.

HTC hasn't said anything about shutting down HTCdev.com for bootloader unlocking and I believe that's true for Motorola as well.

Enterprise managers simply need to know that they can certify that phones aren't taken off the reservation.

Samsung has taken steps to prevent bootloader unlocking and has turned dev unfriendly.

HTC has taken steps to ensure that their unlocking path is followed and shows no indication of changing that.

Manufacturers can force everyone into the same mold but there's no technical reason for it.

 

[EarlyMon]

CM11/KitKat/4.4 dropped for the HTC LTEvo this weekend.

It was accompanied by a revised TWRP custom recovery that's SELinux aware and capable.

A big positive all the way around.

 

[jhawkkw]

CM11/KitKat/4.4 dropped for the HTC LTEvo this weekend.

It was accompanied by a revised TWRP custom recovery that's SELinux aware and capable.

A big positive all the way around.

Yeah, the first couple revisions of twrp on the nexus 5 had mounting issues when trying to flash to the system partition. So I'm guessing that was part of the equation.

 

[EarlyMon]

Yeah, the first couple revisions of twrp on the nexus 5 had mounting issues when trying to flash to the system partition. So I'm guessing that was part of the equation.

Sounds reasonable.

Plus false starts on recovery for new devices are pretty common.