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Debating on leaving Android for good

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  1. Kender42

    Kender42 Well-Known Member

    I'm debating on leaving the Android scene for good since every update seems to force me into getting the latest and greatest tablet/phone/whatever. I don't have the disposable income that most people seem to have. I have tried to sell my old device but collectively I made about $60 for 8 devices.

    I love Android but this is going to cost me too much in the long run. Looking at Apple, it is expensive initially but at least I can upgrade the OS for a while till I have to get a new device. With Android, it feels like I have to buy a new device for every update.

    I currently have a Toshiba Thrive AT100 running Android 3.1 that can't be upgraded any further. With the device manufacturers forcing these new purchases every time, it seems that Apple is cheaper in the long run.

    If anyone can tell me of a 10" tablet that can actually update the OS with LTS and be fairly inexpensive then I would stay with Android.

  2. rootabaga

    rootabaga Well-Known Member

    I think you're somewhat fooling yourself that Apple users have it better.

    Go buy an iPhone 3 (about the equivalent of your Thrive on Android 3.1) and you'll find that you're pretty much stuck with a really old iOS...because the hardware won't support the newer versions. Same thing with the iPad, you can get the gen 1, even the 32gb version, for not much more than $120 since it is all the oldest hardware and can't be upgraded.

    This is always the continual battle between hardware and software. Each drives the other forward.

    I've been running my old Optimus V for a few years now, it's 2.2 (froyo) and works fine for the most part. I am not someone who has to have the latest and greatest, so I've just ordered a replacement that is already older technology (F3), but it was very inexpensive and will do everything I want for the next several years.

    Dropping sixty or eighty bucks on a smartphone every four or five years is nothing, but you can only do that if you're willing to ride the backside of the technological wave.

    And if you do that with iPhones, you have more of a pain (and cost) to change the battery, which you'd need to do with the older models.

    How big a tablet you want? I don't know of any specials on tens, but Costco has the 7" Galaxy tab on sale for a great price right now, $160. That's a buy-in for current technology, so you should be good for a few years. Amortize it, that's what, 40 or fifty bucks a year.

    Anyway, that's my .02. Hope it helps some.
  3. boathead

    boathead Well-Known Member

    i feel your pain, brother. that is why i've gone the custom ROM route. My suggestion would be to find a device that seems to get active developer support.

    one of the biggest misconceptions is that nexus devices get updates. i have 2 nexus devices that will never see an update again. they talk about 18 months of support. but i think they measure that from the first day the device is available. if you are like me, and prefer to wait a bit and see how things shake out, it's a joke, quite frankly.
    Kender42 likes this.
  4. mikedt

    mikedt 你好 Guide

    Toshiba Thrive AT100 that's quite an old device now, from 2011, and presumably Toshiba never upgraded the software beyond Honeycomb 3.1.

    Want to always get the latest updates, have a look at getting a Google Nexus device. Updates come straight from Google, as they're released, and not dependent on any particular manufacturer or carrier.
    Crashdamage and Kender42 like this.
  5. John Bean

    John Bean Happy Wanderer

    That's a pretty good summary rootabaga, much the way I see it.

    Kender42, I have a more recent phone than you but despite being a couple of years old it still has the latest Android OS version. Why? Because it's a Google Nexus, and Google tend to update the OS on their branded devices for longer than most manufacturer/carrier branded versions. If you want to get OS updates for as long as is reasonably possible the Nexus devices are worth a look.

    LTE is another matter and has nothing much to do with the OS - it's almost entirely down to the hardware. My Nexus 4 for example has no "4G" capability here in the UK, I'd need a Nexus 5 to give me that capability despite both running the same OS version. To use a more familiar PC analogy, my laptop has USB3 but my desktop does not - no amount of OS upgrading (or lack of it) will give my desktop USB3, it's a pure hardware issue.

    I don't believe Android has any more (or less) update issues than any other OS, but the update strategies are down to the individual manufacturers (and carriers) rather than Google, some will update often and others not at all. It's unreasonable to blame the OS for the marketing choices of the phone manufacturers who generally want you to buy a new phone rather than giving you an OS upgrade.
    Crashdamage and Kender42 like this.
  6. Kender42

    Kender42 Well-Known Member

    Thank you for that rootabaga. I totally forgot about the battery replacement, and everything else having to go through Apple.

    I did find a new tablet that's pretty inexpensive for a 10" tablet. It's called the Pumpkin X I found it here


    and here


    Don't know much about it since the appear to be a new company but I did find it on Amazon with only 1 review so far. But the specs seem to be ok, not too knowledgeable about those spec things.

    Maybe someone who knows more about the technical stuff can give me a simple rundown and see if it's worth it to get.

    Who knows, maybe it has the potential to be an added device on here to root, mod, and everything else android. :rolleyes:
  7. John Bean

    John Bean Happy Wanderer

    Google Nexus devices do indeed get updates :)

    Updates can't go on forever, but my two Nexus devices were updated only a few weeks ago despite being outside the "18 month" window. Time will tell whether this was the last update they get.
  8. mikedt

    mikedt 你好 Guide

    American Pumpkins site looks like an importer of budget devices from China, as well as selling lifestyle, home and health products. With "Pumpkin X" tablets, which is presumably their house brand, those are coming from manufacturer's unknown and very likely will never receive any maker's updates. They're usually poor candidates for rooting and custom ROMs(unless you can read Chinese sometimes and/or know exactly what you've got). if that's what you're interested in.

    May want to have a read of our forum sticky about devices like this...
  9. boathead

    boathead Well-Known Member

    and therein is the misconception. Many folks preach without knowing, and the unsuspecting drink the kool aid.

    my nexus 7 2012 got an update to kit kat. i don't count the incremental kk fixes that merely corrected some bugs. my device is only 8 months old, bought new, and will doubtfully be getting Android L.

    my galaxy nexus crapped out in jelly bean, but i suppose i can blame sprint for that one.

    and while i agree that updates cannot go on forever, they can in fact go on a bit longer than google provides. witness the xda developer support for the galaxy nexus. and the nexus 7 2012. i'm confident that at least for the n7, i'll be getting an L custom ROM.

    but please don't get me wrong. I have 4 nexus devices. i'm a fanboy. im just irked by this update misconception.
  10. argedion

    argedion The TechnoFrog Moderator

    The biggest problem I see is that people buy a device and expect it to be updated for as long as they own the device. When I buy a device I know that its only going to get support for so long. Its the nature of the beast. These company's do want you to buy the newest devices that is what keeps them in business. Lets face it if you were a manufacturer you would do the same thing why because you wont survive on old technology. Just because a device can be updated doesn't mean it should be. I have a Nexus tablet and I love it. I have it rooted and have what I feel to be an excellent rom on it however I know that its going to have to be replaced at some point and that its not going to receive any further updates. But all technology cost I can remember when I bough my very first computer the guy who sold it to me told me then its the worst investment I will make. There has been no truer statement made. I have spent tons of money in computers not to be better just to keep up. I can remember saving up just to buy a stick of RAM that i paid 150 for just to see it again a few months later under a hundred bucks. And I'm not talking about a gig of ram either I'm talking a meg of ram. Its the same with my phone and tablet. Well just tablet now I no longer have a phone. I'm just glad I don't have to install memory or other hardware in them to keep them running.

    Technology cost and it has to be paid for somehow. All the companies will continually upgrade their products but not the systems that run them.
    davidchsw, MonteK73 and Crashdamage like this.
  11. Shocky

    Shocky On Probation

    That's over three years old, released July 2011 and made by Toshiba.

    The problem isn't Android, the problem is you. Clearly you never did any research because you bought a Tablet from Toshiba and expect software updates three years after release. That's almost funny.

    It is not Google's responsibly to upgrade Toshiba's tablets.
  12. dibblebill

    dibblebill Well-Known Member

    While harsh, Shocky's right. Toshiba is notorious for not updating their software. The Thrive's competitors (the Acer a500, Transformer TF100, etc) ALL saw at LEAST an Android 4.0.3 update (I was an ownder of the a500) while sporting almost identical hardware. That's a Toshiba product for you, sorry. Hell, the a500 even got mostly-stable 4.2 custom ROM's for a while.

    Which Nexus 7? It is 18 months from the launch, not from a customer buying it. If it's the Tegra 3 Nexus 7, that's also partially nVidia's fault, seeing as they've finally discontinued support and updates on the Tegra 3 platform (it was a long-lived beast, relatively speaking). Same for the Galaxy Nexus. However, in both cases, after-market support, as you mentioned, is very strong because they are Nexus devices.

    I personally recommend a Nexus 10, but it's getting on in age and may be replaced by a Nexus 9 sooner or later (whatever the HTC Flounder might be). I just sold one on eBay for around $250, and the buyer LOVES it. You also generally don't ALWAYS need the latest and greatest. Devices on 4.2+ tend to be mostly minorly different (though L will introduce a lot of changes, I understand), so once you pass that, it's not that big a deal. I gave a buddy my old 4.1.2 Galaxy Victory, and he can install most apps off the app store.
  13. boathead

    boathead Well-Known Member

    it's the 2012. and i understand it is 18 months from launch. the problem is that noone told me that at the time, and i bought it i think 13 months after launch. lol.

    i guess my point is that many spew that nexus gets updates. but they don't say 18 months from launch, even if they knew when the launch date was.

    the lesson i've learned is that if i want the latest, my best warranty is to find a device that has an active development community.
  14. dibblebill

    dibblebill Well-Known Member

    Cannot disagree at all. My beat up Nexus One has KK!
  15. Thom

    Thom Guides Guide

    That it's all about ... look at ... http://androidforums.com/ ... and note that if that was an Apple index there would be three forums.

    What drives Android is competition ... that's where the improvements come from ... that's where the innovation comes from ... some ideas not even conceived of three years ago that seem lame when you first hear about them ... until you try them.

    An example ... as I type this without stopping I say "OK Droid ... weather" and the Droid Maxx in my pocket (that is always listening for the sound of my voice ) responds with a local weather report. The one II love is ... still in my pocket ... "OK droid ... go home" and it gives me turn-by-turn instructions on how to get home.

    It needed some specific hardware and it needed some new software to make it happen. Neither existed three years ago.

    If you want to maximize what you pay for these devices ... buy the cheap no-name versions made in China ... over-and-over-and-over.

    If you don't want to be involved ... buy Apple.

    There is a reason the release dates are plastered around everywhere.

    ... Thom
  16. dovahkiin691

    dovahkiin691 New Member

    I think the iPhone 4 still has support and is receiving the latest operating systems and updates and on top of that i hear its still bearable to use
  17. mikedt

    mikedt 你好 Guide

    The iPhone 4S is still supported has iOS 7 and Apple are still selling it, and apparently it will receive iOS 8 this year along with the other more recent ones. But it may go end-of-life next year. However some features that are in iOS 7 for the more recent iPhones, which some apps may require, are not. Apple are selling the 4S for a cheaper price than the 5C and 5S of course, for those who can't afford the latest ones. It's actually the iPhone 5 that Apple are no longer listing, but it is still supported.

    The iPhone 4 along with the 3GS are discontinued and end-of-life, and have not got iOS 7. With OS X Snow Leopard, there's quite a few things that won't run on it, like iCloud and Facetime, if I wanted Mavericks, I got to buy a new Mac...$$$$$....I'm not bothering.

    Markets can be different as well, sure in countries like the UK and US many people may keep a phone for around two years, and then replace them with new phones when their two year contracts end. Here iPhones along with some Samsungs can be quite expensive, and nearly everyone is on pre-paid, so there's a tendency for people to hang-on to their phones for much longer, especially iPhones, The non-removable battery is not a problem, that can be replaced in just about any phone shop in about ten minutes.
  18. trippap

    trippap Member

    Do you have a rooted Nexus, and did you have to re-root when you updated to KK? I keep hoping some vendor will produce an Android tablet that can easily be rooted so great apps like Titanium Backup can be used. Another way to state it is I want a tablet that would be a good platform for Android--any version--like I can buy platforms for Linux.

    My main tablet now is a Samsung Galaxy Tab 2 10.1, which is rooted. I use the ADW launcher because I couldn't deal with Samsung's own, and I have a variety of other apps that require SU privileges. I would like to upgrade my tablet, but I'm leery of having to re-fight the rooting process every time there is an Android update, and more concerned about locked bootloaders and other innovations that want to deny me administrative privileges for my own device. Does any vendor make an Android tablet that runs KK that can easily and safely be rooted?
  19. Kender42

    Kender42 Well-Known Member

    Can anyone suggest a decent 10" tablet. I mainly use it as a control surface for Ableton Live.
  20. dibblebill

    dibblebill Well-Known Member

    It is a homebrew KitKat ROM. I've rooted/installed custom ROM's across 3 Nexus 7's, a Nexus 10, and a couple others. I highly recommend Nexus 7 or 10 devices as a great, rootable, and well-performing device. I know nothing about newer Samsung Galaxy tabs and rootability.
    funkylogik likes this.
  21. zuben el genub

    zuben el genub Well-Known Member

    I have an Acer A-500 (wifi) I bought about 3 years ago. It was updated to 4.1, and that's it. It is running all the stuff I have on it just fine, and I see no need to get a new tablet until it craps out. It has a full USB port, HDMI out, SD Card. If it had a removable battery, it would be ideal. It isn't rooted. It's used mostly for wifi and entertainment. It does run my astronomy programs, and the Vulcan likes it since it's big enough for him to not hit a button he isn't supposed to.

    Phones on the other hand - I care more about speed and storage. That will make me upgrade a phone. Now I'm starting to re-appreciate removable battery and SD card. I prefer things that work my way, rather than what someone thinks I should have. If the OS update is mostly something cosmetic or slick type, and does nothing I need or fixes a problem I don't have, I usually won't bother with it. If it's a security update, that's different. I know I got an update for a Samsung SGS4G from TMO and it sucked. Think it might have been to ICS from GB. It made me so mad that I rooted the phone. (I bought the phone outright, so TMO had to unlock and had no other say)
    I don't need a fancy UI and slick animations or widgets - just a fast way to get to the apps I want - the UI could just be plain black for all I care.

    The Vulcan lost the USB stick I had in the tuner in the truck. I had a HD go south, and lost all the ripped CDs. They were on the SD card in the tablet, so all is back and I've got everything backed up it a couple of places now. If the tablet didn't have the SD card, I'd be SOL.
  22. bjacks12

    bjacks12 Well-Known Member

    There's the problem. You're buying the cheapest off-brand devices you can find and expect them to have tons of developer support. You get what you pay for. The general rule with Android devices is that the more mainstream it is, the better support it will have. HTC, Motorola, Google...that's where the updates are. They have a bigger development budget than a couple of wannabe Chinese entrepreneurs that are peddling crap on the internet. I can promise you that if you buy that tablet you will NEVER see a single update.

    And the iPhone may get OS updates, but they get stripped of all the features. My mom's iPhone 4 has run like crap ever since iOS 7.
    funkylogik likes this.
  23. dibblebill

    dibblebill Well-Known Member

    Acer eventually gave it 4.1? When?!
  24. nickdalzell

    nickdalzell Well-Known Member Contributor

    To correct MikeDT the iPhone 4 got iOS 7 (regrettably) my own 4 and iPad 3 had it self-installed (literally, woke up and there was the welcome screen in all its girly pastel glory) and on the 4 it lags like a cheesy budget Android. In fact it was iOS 7 with its hideously overly bright white with razor thin text, lack of texture and 1970s looking flat design which looked suspiciously like a 1977 Pan-Am airline pamphlet that got me into Android for good, albeit the Google-free Samsung TouchWiz devices I love (and stripped of the Google apps).
    mikedt likes this.
  25. zuben el genub

    zuben el genub Well-Known Member

    Acer announced the update about a month after I bought it. I purchased it in May and people were speculating about the update in almost every fora.

    I should mention - I bought a refurb from Amazon, and since tablet was wifi only, it didn't involve a carrier. If you had one that did have a carrier, then I don't know.
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