Does rooting the Epic fix the GPS, Add Android 2.2 and lose 4G?


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  1. Houston S14

    Houston S14 New Member This Topic's Starter

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    Please forgive my ignorance, I'm new to the scene... I love my Epic but the lack of a fully working GPS is leaving a really sour taste in my mouth and right now I'm ready to trade in for an Evo.......but the epic has soooooo much more power.

    So can rooting it fix the damned GPS issue?, Can I put 2.2 on here via rooting it?

    I also hear from Evo users that rooting kills the 4G ability of the phone - Is this true or are they failing somewhere?

    Any insight would be greatly appreciated, I don't wanna get rid of this lil' pocket laptop.
     

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  2. huntm856

    huntm856 Member

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    What GPS problems are you having? Mine works more or less perfectly.
     
  3. Kelmar

    Kelmar Done by choice VIP Member

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    No GPS issue here so I can't comment on that.

    There are currently no 2.2 ROMs available that work on the Epic.

    4G worked on my rooted/ROMed Epic fine the one time I have been in a 4G area. It's possible that the ROM that people are using is what disabled it.
     
  4. chino0131

    chino0131 Active Member

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    I dont have the issues with GPS anymore. I do have my Epic rooted, as well as two rooted Evos and havent lost my 4G on any device. I didnt research it much since I didnt have the 4g issues, but I believe it was isolated to certain Roms ( not entirely positive of that so dont quote me).
    Personally I dont see any negatives, for me at least, in rooting.
     
  5. iwillfearnoevil

    iwillfearnoevil Well-Known Member

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    really? you guys (including a mod) have never heard about epic's gps problem? really?
     
  6. chino0131

    chino0131 Active Member

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    Really? I'm sure everyones heard about the GPS problem. Just because you hear about something doesnt mean you've experienced it. As a lot of Galaxy S users have noted, as well as several publications and webistes, some have experienced the issue while some have not.

    No one has said they havent heard of the GPS issue in any of these posts, they just said they arent having them, so i dont know where you're coming from.
     
  7. boomerbubba

    boomerbubba Well-Known Member

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    The fact is that most users don't know how to test the GPS rigorously under controlled conditions, so anecdotal reports are unreliable.

    Every Epic 4G has GPS bugs. Some of those bugs only manifest themselves under certain usage patterns. There are people who have not experienced the bugs. I do not believe that anyone who has correctly tested the cases known to trigger the bugs has not experienced them.

    Here are two different GPS bugs known to exist in every Epic. To help see them, download the Market app GPS Test by Chartcross Ltd.

    1) After using your GPS successfully, and confirming the satellite locks in GPS Test, close that utility and all apps that use the GPS sensor. Also do nothing that might clear the GPS cache as a side effect, such as playing with certain settings. Do not reboot the phone. (If you don't know for sure which apps use the GPS or which actions might clear the cache as a side effect, then just put the phone away on a shelf to be sure.)

    Wait 24 hours.

    Open GPS Test, go outdoors and see if you get multiple locks on satellites used. What should happen with a working GPS is that it will lock on multiple satellites within a few seconds. That will not happen here.

    This bug has been isolated in controlled tests to be dependent on time-sensitive GPS data stored in a cache. That cached needs to be refreshed from time to time, but the refresh does not happen properly. There are workarounds that can force the cache to be refreshed.

    So if you use the GPS under conditions that happen to have a fresh cache, you will not experience the locking bug. That does not mean the device does not have the bug.

    2) On occasions when you do get successful satellite locks, as shown in GPS Test, look at the estimated accuracy that utility shows. It will always show 30.0 meters (or 98.4 feet if you have selected that unit of measurement). This behavior is a bug, universal on all Epics. What should happen with a working GPS is that the estimated accuracy reported should be dynamic, constantly changing from moment to moment with conditions. That will not happen on the Epic. All Epics, once a lock is achieved, will always report 30.0 meters.

    BTW, these documented bugs are specific the the Epic. Other Galaxy S phones also have GPS bugs, but they are not the same bugs as the Epic's.

    p.s. To address the OP's question more directly, there is no reason to believe that rooting will fix the GPS bugs.
     
  8. chino0131

    chino0131 Active Member

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    Fact is ive done every test and have not experienced this issue, just as other havent experienced it. It may be a known issue, but it didn't mean everyone experiences it. Why dint people understand this? I've researched, tested, and nothing. I use my GPS everyday and have no issues. Mytracks is completely accurate on my Epic, just as is every app I use that utilizes GPS
     
  9. boomerbubba

    boomerbubba Well-Known Member

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    Intensive daily use of the GPS, which has the effect of keeping the GPS cache refreshed, is one of the conditions that avoids the locking bug. But if you test as I described above, you will experience it.

    And tracking acuracy, once locking is achieved, is not the problem.
     
  10. chino0131

    chino0131 Active Member

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    As I said, ive already done all the tests. Youre not the only one who knows how to research . Whats so hard to understand that some do not experience this issue regardless of their testing, whether by your posted methods or others? I know what the issues are and the fact is I, just as others, have not had them. I tested as you described abovd several times on several devices. Some, not all, had issues. Not all. You may believe it is an issue for all devicea, but your belief is not fact. I have nothing gain by stating my experience.
     
  11. boomerbubba

    boomerbubba Well-Known Member

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    That's intersting. When you open GPS Test, how many satellites does it tyically show that are seen, and how many are used? How long does it take to achieve that multi-satellite lock? What is the imputed accuracy reported by GPS Test?

    Reporting these results, and the precise settings on your phone and conditions of your test, might help other users find a solution that no one else knows about. I would be fascinated to see screenshots from GPS Test that show an imputed accuracy other than 30.0 meters. No such unicorn has ever been sighted before on an Epic 4G.

    (But it might be better to do it in a GPS thread, instead of this thread ostensibly about rooting. The GPS issue has nothing to do with rooting, AFAIK.)
     
  12. pflol

    pflol Well-Known Member

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    I've heard of the GPS problem, however it works fine for me.
     
  13. Kelmar

    Kelmar Done by choice VIP Member

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    Oh, we've HEARD about it, but it doesn't mean it bothers us or that we've experienced it. :)

    Yeap! Well said.

    I have never done the FULL tests, but for me, the FEW times I use the GPS, it had worked just dandy!

    This is also true.

    +1 (guess I should have said it this way) :)


    Anyways, back to the regularly scheduled thread ;)
     
  14. boomerbubba

    boomerbubba Well-Known Member

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    Well, since the prior testing of GPS has established use cases in which the bugs occur, and some other use cases in which they do not occur, it is rather important to do the full tests under controlled conditions.

    If, in fact, there are Epics out there that do disprove the established use cases for the bug, this is big news indeed. Those who have such devices really need to explore and explain exactly how they enjoy success.

    1) Different firmware? I assume not. (I am talking only about stock devices running the current Sprint firmware.)

    2) Different hardware? If true this would be earthshaking news indeed. I have never heard a peep about any improved revision of the Epic hardware. If it is a matter of differences in unit-level quality control, then the rest of us have to start returning our defective units for replacement. This is impossible in business terms, because Sprint and Samsung deny that there is a known GPS issue at all, so warranty exchanges for this reason are denied.

    3) Different settings, or different test conditions? Frankly, some kind of unexplained or undocumented user behavior or environment variables are the most likely explanation. So let's see some rigorous test results, with all the settings and anything in the usage pattern that might side-effect the GPS. A good start would be just publishing screenshots of the bug-free sessions of GPS Test, together with some details of the environment background that achieved the successful lock:


    • How long did it take to get the satellite fix in the GPS Test screenshot?
    • What is the dynamic range of imputed accuracy being reported by GPS Test that is different than 30.0 meters? (The screenshot will show a snapshot.)
    • What data connection was being used: 4G, 3G or WiFi?
    • How long had it been since the GPS had been used before this?
    • How long had it been since the phone was rebooted?
    • Where is the test taking place -- outdoors, with clear view, etc?
    • Was there a factory reset, or any other settings change that might have a hidden side-effect?
    • Was Use Wireless Networks enabled under Settings?
    • When, if ever, was the hidden GPSSetup utility opened with the dialer code? If it had been opened, what are the settings.

    That's at least the low-hanging fruit. The objective has to be isolating what it takes to have an Epic GPS that is bug-free. Maybe there is another workaround or magic setting for the rest of us, or at least some results that can be passed to Sprint and Samsung.

    I have spent 30 years testing software. This is a complex situation, and just reporting that the GPS "worked just dandy" is pretty unserious information. When I first got my Epic, it took a while before I experienced the bugs, too. That took some serious work and controlled tests, as well as comparing notes with valued contributors such as Aero1.

    If you are not inclined to do such work yourself, as a mod you might at least lift the gag on GPS threads instead of mashing them all together into an unreadable mess. Then perhaps users such as chino0131 can detail the rigorous testing they have done without hitting the bugs, we can all compare notes and test hypotheses, and the state of knowledge can be advanced. If there is a surefire cure for the Epic's GPS bugs out of the box, I would love to find it.
     
  15. Kelmar

    Kelmar Done by choice VIP Member

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    What "gag" are you referring to? Feel free to PM me so that we don't clutter this thread. Please remember that as mods, we do a we are asked to do by the admin and owner and that we, as moderators, don't make the policies but rather just enforce them.
     
  16. boomerbubba

    boomerbubba Well-Known Member

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    I was referring to the mods' move some weeks ago to glom all the GPS threads into one thread, which became quite unintelligible. (Threads are actually conversations, and context of individual threads matters.) If that was a "policy" decision made over your head, then I see that I am not addressing the right party. It seldom makes sense to argue with a mod, so I'll just drop it.
     
  17. MikeyLee

    MikeyLee Member

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    Maybe someone can help me out with this?? I updated my Epic to 2.2 and completely lost the GPS. Does anyone know of a fix?
     
  18. pvanwagner

    pvanwagner Member

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    Same here, MikeyLee.

    Everything else works great but ZERO GPS on 2.2. I'm hoping the official 2.2 fixes that when they release it.

    We all thought that DK28 was the official and that we were just not waiting for the OTA by downloading the update.zip, but it turns out that was a developer's copy and not the official-official release.

    As a frequent user of MyTracks I would like my GPS back, but having Skype makes up for it. I also love how so many different things are just better on 2.2.
     
  19. Stoney62

    Stoney62 Well-Known Member

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    pvanwagner likes this.
  20. MikeyLee

    MikeyLee Member

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    GPS does NOT work at all in the EPIC with the "so called" official 2.2 update
     
  21. pvanwagner

    pvanwagner Member

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    You sure about that or do you mean it doesn't work for you?

    I have read posts from Duran, Stoney and others that say it's working for them.

    I'm getting ready to re-flash to stock and then back to DK28 using ODIN under the belief that it will work. I don't want to waste my time if it won't.
     
  22. Epicurean

    Epicurean Well-Known Member

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    Mine works after using the flashback technique described here. Although it works better it did before, I understand that there are still issues with it (I myself have not encountered any).
     
  23. pvanwagner

    pvanwagner Member

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    Here's what I did.

    1. Flashed DI18 using ODIN
    2. Changed to Warm Start using #*1472365#
    3. Used GPS Status and Toolbox to flush cache and download GPS assistance.
    4. Used GPS Test to verify GPS lockon using 8 satellites (through an East facing window - it's too cold today to go outside).
    5. Used Update.ZIP to flash DK28 (kept getting MD5 hash errors with the .tar file in ODIN)
    6. Verified GPS will still lock on using GPS Test and GPS Status.

    I'm satisfied. My theory is that there was bad data in the GPS cache on my phone when I went to DK28 and it was just hosed (pretty technical guess, huh :).

    So my answer is - I agree with Stoney. You can get the GPS to work with 2.2 KD28. You just have to be persistnant. Unfortunately flashing DI18 with ODIN deleted all my settings and apps. I guess I'll have to redo all the Angry Bird levels again.
     
  24. Stoney62

    Stoney62 Well-Known Member

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    But you'll have so much fun doing it all over again:D
    I wish I knew why you couldn't get the DK28 flash to run to completion. Everyone else I've worked with has. I've done it twice myself.
     
  25. pvanwagner

    pvanwagner Member

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    Yeah, but it doesn't matter since Update.ZIP worked just fine to get me back to DK28.
     

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