Does the US discriminate against Huawei (a moved discussion)


  1. EarlyMon

    EarlyMon The PearlyMon Moderator

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  2. Gmash

    Gmash Well-Known Member

    Thanks, EarlyMon, for bringing some sanity to this discussion. As you have stated, (in so many words) this is mostly about posturing and propaganda. Of course any country is going to be territorial. Everything, including the "national security" issue is a bargaining chip, much like the "you sue me, I sue you" culture of the tech firms. As for China claiming obstructionism, of course they're going to say that. Why wouldn't they? Its a gimme. That being said, do you think say Microsoft could go to China and buy a major tech company without the Chinese government raising hell? Of course not. Everyone is going to protect their best interests, and theres nothing wrong with that. You just have to understand the game. You don't start bargaining with your best offer.
    Jazziette likes this.
  3. Gmash

    Gmash Well-Known Member

    Great links. As I said way back, this had nothing to do with cell phones. Still, with this tech being in the private sector, I find it hard to believe they can keep it out of the Chinese government's hands.
  4. Gmash

    Gmash Well-Known Member

    Who needs who the most is a very interesting question. There are many factors in play. Considering the billions of $ we owe China, they would like us to be able to repay. We buy most of their products, so they need us to keep their economy growing. However, we need them to finance our constant budget deficits. So we have a pretty symbiotic relationship.
    Jazziette likes this.
  5. cipher6

    cipher6 Well-Known Member

    Didn't read all this, but from what I could find searching around (wikipedia) Huawei has been accused by numours companies of IP theft...


    That kind of stuff plus this:

    And i think the government thinks these aren't the type of people that should have access to sensitive government networks.
  6. ElasticNinja

    ElasticNinja Well-Known Member

    is this the same Huawei who fail to release source code and make crappy products?
    sounds discriminatable to me :p
  7. EarlyMon

    EarlyMon The PearlyMon Moderator

    China could've gotten clustering by getting Project Appleseed, MPI, or Xgrid solutions and a bunch of Macs - or by simply making a Beowulf cluster.

    Letting them buy the programmers and intellectual property is an obviously sticky matter.

    It wasn't that many decades ago that which CPUs were under export control was the biggest issue, and srsly biznus.

    For those unfamiliar with export control:

    Export Control Basics (Exporting 101)

    Export Control

    US State Department - Policy - Directorate of Defense Trade Controls - Embargoed Countries

    Better get your asbestos underoos on! ;) The Huawei Android users are loving their phones and are more than slightly vocal in their support of it.
    Jazziette and Gmash like this.
  8. ElasticNinja

    ElasticNinja Well-Known Member

    *cough* Pulse Mini *cough*
  9. Jazziette

    Jazziette Well-Known Member

    Breaking news:

    Huawei says it wants to ease US security fears - World news - Asia-Pacific - China - msnbc.com

    Huawei says it wants to ease U.S. Security Fears

    By JOE McDONALD
    The Associated Press [​IMG]
    updated 1 hour 19 minutes ago 2011-02-24T23:50:41

    BEIJING — Chinese telecom equipment maker Huawei issued a public invitation Friday to U.S. authorities to investigate the company to dispel what it says are mistaken fears that it is a threat to American national security.
    Huawei Technologies Ltd. made the unusual appeal in a letter on its website following its announcement last week it would unwind its purchase of American computer company 3Leaf Systems after it failed to win approval from a U.S. security[​IMG] panel.
    "We sincerely hope that the United States government will carry out a formal investigation on any concerns it may have about Huawei," says the letter, signed by Huawei deputy chairman Ken Hu.
    The company rejected what it said were untrue allegations that it has ties to China's military, receives improper Chinese government financial support or is a threat to American national security.
    "There is no evidence that Huawei has violated any security rules," said the letter.
    Huawei is one of the biggest makers of network switching gear and reported sales of $28 billion last year. It has struggled to gain a foothold in the United States against rivals such as Cisco Systems Inc[​IMG].
    Huawei was founded by a former Chinese military officer, Ren Zhengfei, which has fueled speculation about its links to the People's Liberation Army. The company says it is owned by its employees and has no military connection.

    Friday's letter said Ren served as a Chinese military engineer before leaving the service in 1983. It said he worked for an oil company[​IMG] before founding Huawei in 1987 with 21,000 yuan (about US$2,500 at that time).
    "It is a matter of fact that Mr. Ren is just one of the many CEOs around the world who have served in the military," the letter said. "It is also factual to say that no one has ever offered any evidence that Huawei has been involved in any military technologies at any time."
    In 2008, Huawei and an American partner, Bain Capital, withdrew a request for U.S. government approval of a bid to buy 3Com. The companies said they failed to satisfy national security concerns.
    Huawei says it failed to apply for approval of the $2 million 3Leaf deal in advance because it bought the company's technology and hired some employees, rather than acquiring the whole company. The Pentagon took the unusual step of demanding that Huawei retroactively apply for a CFIUS review.
    At a congressional hearing in Washington last week, National Intelligence Director James Clapper[​IMG] said the case highlighted the importance of ensuring that U.S. industry was aware of potential security threats "when we depend on foreign concerns for key components in any of our telecommunications network."
    Gmash likes this.
  10. Jazziette

    Jazziette Well-Known Member

    LOL Early!!!! You got that right! Huawei has us all under it's CLOUDS! :D
  11. Jazziette

    Jazziette Well-Known Member

    Early...I don't have any problem with the CFIUS not approving of the acquisition based on import/export/foreign investment rules. What I DO have a problem with is the reason they gave for their rejection of the Huawei 3Leaf deal.

    To announce that the reason is because they feel 'Huawei' is a threat to U.S. Security because the founder was a former officer in the People's Liberation Army or because they 'suspect' that Huawei is funded by the Chinese government isn't acceptable IMO.

    I would be the last one to want to see our homeland jeopardized but let's get real. With all the technological devices being made and imported from China and other places in the world...don't you think this is a bit overkill?

    Maybe I should start worrying that I'm gonna be arrested and thrown in Gitmo for using a Huawei handset.

    :p

    "Don't waterboard me BRO! I was only texting!!!!" :D
  12. ElasticNinja

    ElasticNinja Well-Known Member

    I agree
    GITMO FOR ALL, (miniature American flags for others
  13. Jazziette

    Jazziette Well-Known Member

    Where's the cake?

    :p
  14. ElasticNinja

    ElasticNinja Well-Known Member

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  15. Jazziette

    Jazziette Well-Known Member

    https://news.fidelity.com/news/news...7063_1&IMG=N&cat=default&ccsource=rss-default

    Looks like Huawei is serious about clearing it's name:


    Huawei calls on U.S. government to investigate it

    REUTERS — 7:11 PM ET 02/24/11

    * Huawei says U.S. should probe any doubts about it
    * Vows to do "anything" U.S. govt wants in a probe
    * Says misperceptions have hurt its business
    * Says no proof of military technology involvement

    By Sinead Carew

    NEW YORK, Feb 24 (Reuters) - China's Huawei Technologies Co [HWT.UL] has challenged the United States to launch a formal investigation into its business, in an attempt by one of the world's largest telecommunications equipment makers to clear its name from allegations that have blocked U.S. deals.

    The highly unusual call follows the outcome of a recent U.S. government foreign investment review that is forcing Huawei to sell assets it bought from 3Leaf, a small U.S. company. Three years ago, Huawei had to pull back from a bigger proposed investment in 3Com, in similar circumstances.

    The company said it has been the victim of misperceptions about its relationship with the Chinese military because its founder, Ren Zhengfei, served in the People's Liberation Army until 1983.

    Huawei said the U.S. should investigate any doubts it has so that it can reach an accurate conclusion.

    "We're literally willing to do anything the government might ask to give them visibility," said Bill Plummer, Huawei's U.S.-based vice president for external affairs. "We're open to any type of investigation or audit or review that they feel would address whatever concerns they have."
    Huawei said its ability to do business in the United States has been hurt significantly in the past 10 years by unproven allegations. As well as problems it had with acquisitions, U.S. Republican lawmakers also raised national security concerns about Huawei's bid to supply wireless network equipment to Sprint Nextel Corp (Symbol : S) last year. [ID:nN24257645]
    But the company said nobody had proven any links between its business and military technology.

    "No one has ever offered any evidence that Huawei has been involved in any military technologies at any time," the company said in an open letter it posted on its website on Thursday.

    Huawei has made huge strides in recent years in the wireless network equipment market, where it has overtaken big players such as Alcatel-Lucent (Symbol : ALU) .
    Analysts say it is roughly neck-and-neck with Nokia Siemens Networks (NSN), for second place in that market which is led by Sweden's Ericsson .

    Besides the military question, Huawei said other misperceptions relate to disputes over intellectual property rights, financial backing from the Chinese government and concerns it could use its technology to steal confidential information or launch attacks on U.S. networks.
    But the company said there was no evidence it "has violated any security rules."
    Huawei said that since it was founded in 1987, it has respected intellectual property rights. For example it has paid San Diego-based Qualcomm (Symbol : QCOM)$600 million in fees for use of its technology over the years, it said. The company also noted that Cisco Systems (Symbol : CSCO) withdrew a lawsuit against Huawei over an alleged intellectual property rights infringement.

    Huawei itself recently filed a U.S. lawsuit against Motorola Solutions (Symbol : MSI) , a long-standing Huawei partner, as it sought to prevent Motorola from transferring trade secrets to Nokia Siemens, a venture of Nokia and Siemens , through assets Motorola is selling to NSN.

    China's regulators have yet to give the go-ahead for Motorola's proposed $1.2 billion sale of its network gear unit to NSN. [ID:nN22104336]

    As for financial backing by the Chinese government, Huawei said it receives government support in the same way that the U.S government offers support such as tax incentives to U.S. companies. It said it received only $89.75 million of support from the Chinese government in 2010.

    The U.S. Treasury Department would not comment directly on the Huawei letter but a spokeswoman insisted that the United States remains receptive to Chinese investment.
    The company did not give specifics on what information it would offer U.S. authorities in any investigation.

    Plummer said it was difficult to cite specific information the company is willing to offer since it only knows about U.S. concerns "on a surface level." (Reporting by Sinead Carew; editing by Andre Grenon, Martin Howell)
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  16. Jazziette

    Jazziette Well-Known Member



    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    Just an interesting observation. LOL
  17. EarlyMon

    EarlyMon The PearlyMon Moderator

    I've read Huawei's claims for the rejection.

    I've yet to read the CFIUS report. Until then, I won't assume claims are necessarily facts.

    And I'll repeat, Huawei's invitation to disclose is unpossible and anything unpossible is propaganda.
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  18. Jazziette

    Jazziette Well-Known Member

    If that's the case do you think that Huawei is doing this for publicity and name recognition?

    What do they have to gain by inviting the U.S. to do something that would be 'unpossible'?

    They've even invited audits, etc. What more can a company do to provide transparency?
  19. EarlyMon

    EarlyMon The PearlyMon Moderator

    What they have to gain is the aim of all propaganda: sympathy.

    And the whole transparency thing is part of the propaganda.

    No high tech manufacturer operates without barriers against industrial espionage, always protected by their respective governments.

    The claimed transparency is and will be unpossible.

    And it only matters in a world where propaganda equals fact.

    Mother Teresa could be CEO of Huawei and the CFIUS decision would have been the same.
    Jazziette likes this.
  20. Jazziette

    Jazziette Well-Known Member

    Well, you would think the U.S. would at least send a team of investigators over there to enjoy some of that world renowned Chinese hospitality.

    It doesn't sound like Huawei is going to let it drop.

    Oh and btw...I do agree with you about all the propaganda. But the facts are it works both ways.

    I found it very interesting how much Huawei has paid to Qualcomm in fees over the years. 600 Million! That's a tidy little sum. :p

    It kinda makes one wonder....ahhhh but that's another topic for another time and 'place'. ;)

    I'll be interested in your continued thoughts as this unfolds........
  21. EarlyMon

    EarlyMon The PearlyMon Moderator

    A point I would not argue.

    I've only argued that transparency is unpossible. So long as a company can be nationalized by its government - a possibility anywhere - then transparency before the fact is a side show.

    Qualcomm is ostensibly an American company, so let's discuss it here.

    So what it is you wonder? Are you amazed they got off so cheaply?
    Jazziette likes this.
  22. ElasticNinja

    ElasticNinja Well-Known Member

    Huewai and ZTE just order 100 million MSM7227's and hack together phones
    Qualcomm would make little percentage profit
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  23. Jazziette

    Jazziette Well-Known Member

    I have to come back to this when I return on Monday. I'm getting ready to head for the mountains to do some 4 wheeling this weekend. :) But I look forward to jumping back into the discussion when I get home. Have a great one!
  24. EarlyMon

    EarlyMon The PearlyMon Moderator

    Rubber side down, shiney side up, repeat until mud covered.
  25. Jazziette

    Jazziette Well-Known Member

    LOL!!!! I try to keep the rubber side down but it's hard sometimes! hahaha I got the mud part down pat! LOL :D (They still have snow on the ground!)
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