"Don't Ask, Don't Tell" To repeal or not to repeal...

[mpw]

...some people on here say "yes, keep them to the same standards, regardless of physical ability" and then seem to say that, at the same time, women should be protected. And then they say that they're for equality...

Don't recall that argument being made 'on here'; maybe it was in one of the discussions you've had elsewhere, where the physical differences between the sexes weren't noticed by any of the participants??

 

[SamsungVibrant]

This college kid commits suicide after his roommate secretly tapes him having gay sex and posts it on the net.

Here is the video:
YouTube - Hot Topics- Suicide by College Student - The View

Now, I guarantee someone is going to reply "how do you know he killed himself because it was gay sex, maybe he was just embarrassed for having sex on video." OH PLEASE SAVE THOSE STUPID REPLIES. If he was having straight sex, he would be considered a stud, and I guarantee he wouldn't have killed himself.

This kid killed himself because of the fear that he was outed. If society accepted gays, if society fought for equality, if we didn't have BS programs like don't ask don't tell, if we didn't create this barrier, if we didn't consider gays outcasts, then this kid would have been alive today.

 

[ionekoa]

Now, I guarantee someone is going to reply "how do you know he killed himself because it was gay sex, maybe he was just embarrassed for having sex on video." OH PLEASE SAVE THOSE STUPID REPLIES. If he was having straight sex, he would be considered a stud, and I guarantee he wouldn't have killed himself.

im going to call BS. just because other neanderthalic jacktards would have thought of him as a stud does not mean that he would not have still felt violated, nor that his reaction would have been any different. personally me myself i would be the one in jail as if i were taped having sex with a woman and had it streamed like that, i would have killed the person doing it. not every straight person is a cromagnon ****** that measures his manhood by where he has publicly stuck his dick.

 

[SamsungVibrant]

im going to call BS. just because other neanderthalic jacktards would have thought of him as a stud does not mean that he would not have still felt violated, nor that his reaction would have been any different. personally me myself i would be the one in jail as if i were taped having sex with a woman and had it streamed like that, i would have killed the person doing it. not every straight person is a cromagnon ****** that measures his manhood by where he has publicly stuck his dick.

OH GIVE ME A BREAK, this kid killed himself because it was a video of him having GAY SEX. How could you not realize that. I don't even understand why you would argue otherwise. If he was doing a girl, he would be alive today. END OF THAT.

 

[ionekoa]

OH GIVE ME A BREAK, this kid killed himself because it was a video of him having GAY SEX. How could you not realize that. I don't even understand why you would argue otherwise. If he was doing a girl, he would be alive today. END OF THAT.

oohh a declarative statement, then it must be so... i have intentionally avoided replying to a lot of things that you've said, but this really takes the cake. give me ONE piece of substancial evidence that the only reason he killed himself is that he was gay. i don't mean the typical liberal stand by of declaring it so it must be true or resorting to adhominum attacks.

for the record though i never said that wasn't why. i merely said you can not KNOW that that is why. i know that liberals like to put everyone in their nice neat little boxes, but here on planet reality peoplel just don't work like that.

 

[SamsungVibrant]

oohh a declarative statement, then it must be so... i have intentionally avoided replying to a lot of things that you've said, but this really takes the cake. give me ONE piece of substancial evidence that the only reason he killed himself is that he was gay. i don't mean the typical liberal stand by of declaring it so it must be true or resorting to adhominum attacks.

for the record though i never said that wasn't why. i merely said you can not KNOW that that is why. i know that liberals like to put everyone in their nice neat little boxes, but here on planet reality peoplel just don't work like that.

WOW. Seriously people are you guys 12? Suicide amongst gay teens is very common. I am in disbelief that some of you are actually arguing the point that being gay had nothing to do with this. This is not the first time a GLBT teen has committed suicide in fear of being outed. My goodness people.

 

[mpw]

Provide you proof? Proof of what?...

Proof that what you claim as fact is actually fact, you can't do this of course, and that's why your argument is devoid of validity; it may be true, but if the only evidence is tainted by stupidity, there's no evidence at all.

 

[SamsungVibrant]

Proof that what you claim as fact is actually fact, you can't do this of course, and that's why your argument is devoid of validity; it may be true, but if the only evidence is tainted by stupidity, there's no evidence at all.

You want me to provide proof that someone secretly videotaping this kid having gay sex was the reason he committed suicide?

Honestly, I hope those two students who did the video recording have 12 jurors just like you, so they can walk free.

I'm almost speechless.

Why don't you provide proof that this being outed as gay via a gay sex video wasn't the reason.

 

[mpw]

You want me to provide proof that someone secretly videotaping this kid having gay sex was the reason he committed suicide?...

If you're going to assert it as fact, yes. Or feel free to retract your previous statements, and be clear that it's your opinion.

...Honestly, I hope those two students who did the video recording have 12 jurors just like you, so they can walk free...

Being fair minded, honest, reasonable and just, I think I would make a very good juror too; at least better somebody who shares your prejudices.

...I'm almost speechless...

Almost a shame (Reader discretion: punctuation may be missing from this sentence);)

...Why don't you provide proof that this being outed as gay via a gay sex video wasn't the reason.

Because that is not the position I've made any attempt to establish, or assert as fact; I could as reasonable suggest you provide proof that the pen on my desk right now is not blue.

 

[ElasticNinja]

It always amazes me how Samsung can make such good points then goes off on a half-drunken trolling tour.

Maybe listening to so much BS and idiocy from the right has finally gotten to him

 

[SamsungVibrant]

It always amazes me how Samsung can make such good points then goes off on a half-drunken trolling tour.

Maybe listening to so much BS and idiocy from the right has finally gotten to him

Well thanks for both the compliment and the insult, both in the same statement.

I don't think anything I've said qualifies as a drunken troll tour. I actually don't drink and type. That is never safe.

Btw you should listen to right wing talk radio. That stuff is fantastic, really gets your day going. I mean, I don't agree with most of the stuff they say, but they do bring lots of issues to the table. Especially Jon & Ken in the evenings, those guys are fantastic, until they go on one of their racist rants. They really hate mexicans and aren't shy about expressing so. I may be a liberal left wing democrat, but I do enjoy right wing talk radio. Bill handel is great too, now he sounds like a drunk troll, but he is comedy. Rush is just a jerk.

However, I don't really like right wing tv. Fox is just garbage. I use to watch Bill Oreilly, but that guy never makes any sense. At least John and Ken make sense sometimes.

If you live in LA, check out KFI 640 AM. You will love it, even if you are a democrat like myself.

 

[SoFLO]

Let me remind everyone of the P&CA guidelines:

Although emotions can run high when debating something that you feel strongly about, remember that you are not debating someone else's intelligence (or lack thereof), background or location, but rather the topic itself and their position on the topic. For best results try to back up your assertions with some sort of evidence, and also be prepared to have others find evidence against your assertions and shoot holes in what you have said.

Personal attacks will just get threads closed or worse, so avoid attacking the messenger and stick to attacking the message. Infraction-able offenses are very gray in these types of threads so please stay as respectful as possible. We will try to just close the threads when out of hand.. but if members get too crazy-rude infractions will be passed out like normal.

No infractions will be handed out now but take this as the only warning. Infractions will handed out next time.

 

[batgeek]

so, no more smack down on people claiming their opinions are fact? booooo!

 

[byteware]

Now, I guarantee someone is going to reply "how do you know he killed himself because it was gay sex, maybe he was just embarrassed for having sex on video." OH PLEASE SAVE THOSE STUPID REPLIES. If he was having straight sex, he would be considered a stud, and I guarantee he wouldn't have killed himself.

There's a reason you can guarantee it... You don't know WHY he killed himself.

Here's a few things that you failed to mention.

Everyone KNEW he was gay. It wasn't a secret.

He was a VERY private person. From a young age teachers commented on it.

He was a VERY gifted violinist. From a young age teachers commented on it.

He had a future as a concert violinist. I imagine that future was somewhat diminished by the release of this video.

I would also imagine he would be more devastated by the invasion of privacy and the problems it would cause him in his future than the fact that it was a gay video.



Yes, you can use this to push your case, but the facts don't fit your conclusion.

 

[ElasticNinja]

Well thanks for both the compliment and the insult, both in the same statement.

Welcome

I don't think anything I've said qualifies as a drunken troll tour. I actually don't drink and type. That is never safe.

Maybe but you keep pushing your point as if it is the entire truth.

Btw you should listen to right wing talk radio. That stuff is fantastic, really gets your day going. I mean, I don't agree with most of the stuff they say, but they do bring lots of issues to the table. Especially Jon & Ken in the evenings, those guys are fantastic, until they go on one of their racist rants. They really hate mexicans and aren't shy about expressing so. I may be a liberal left wing democrat, but I do enjoy right wing talk radio. Bill handel is great too, now he sounds like a drunk troll, but he is comedy. Rush is just a jerk.

Not much of that where I live, apart from some random christian station

However, I don't really like right wing tv. Fox is just garbage. I use to watch Bill Oreilly, but that guy never makes any sense. At least John and Ken make sense sometimes.

Maybe but back when I had paid sattelite, Faux used to be quite funny

If you live in LA, check out KFI 640 AM. You will love it, even if you are a democrat like myself.

Cork City, EU

Definitely not in LA (thankfully)
So I cant be a Democrat either

There is no kne party that I really identify with in Ireland; the two civil war parties, Fianna F

 

[SamsungVibrant]

Definitely not in LA (thankfully)
So I cant be a Democrat either

I didn't grow up in LA, residents in my hometown are predominately Republican.

 

[Isthmus]

As I see it, repeal is in order. The standard of non-fraternization should remain regardless of sexual orientation, and the standard for all soldiers should be performance. If you're a soldier you should be able to do your job in a superlative manner and hopefully inteligently. whether this means being a good manager, a competent pilot, or being able to haul your pack and fire that gun accurately an when the situation requires it. If you can't do that then who you're shooping it to in your own time doesn't make a hill of difference.

 

[byteware]

As I see it, repeal is in order. The standard of non-fraternization should remain regardless of sexual orientation, and the standard for all soldiers should be performance. If you're a soldier you should be able to do your job in a superlative manner and hopefully inteligently. whether this means being a good manager, a competent pilot, or being able to haul your pack and fire that gun accurately an when the situation requires it. If you can't do that then who you're shooping it to in your own time doesn't make a hill of difference.

And if they went home and lived by themselves... I would absolutely agree with your assessment. (Which, BTW, is what I think SHOULD happen).

However, who they are sleeping with isn't an entirely private matter in the military.

I think it should be. I believe each service member should be roomed separately, and this will resolve most of the issues that will arise.

This will take time, but I believe this should be done.

 

[slayda]

1. Why did this topic ever come up in a forum about Android?
2. In my opinion, my sex life (regardless of orientation) is my private business and no one (who is not a sexual partner) has any right to know about it.
3. As far as equality goes, where do we draw the line? Should group marriages be legal? Should someone be allowed to marry their sister, brother, father, mother, first cousin, etc., etc.? Should someone be allowed to marry their cat, dog, donkey, sheep, goat? Is bestiality or serial raping a sexual orientation and therefore entitled to equality? Enquiring minds want to know.
4. Should someone be allowed to marry his Android Tablet? (Hey, I just want equality.)

 

[Bob Maxey]

All men are created equal... at least under The Constitution. Then again... The Constitution isn't flawless.

The Constitution is as close to being flawless as anything ever penned by man. So tell me, where, in your opinion, does the Constitution of The United States of America fall short?

Bob Maxey

 

[mpw]

...2. In my opinion, my sex life (regardless of orientation) is my private business and no one (who is not a sexual partner) has any right to know about it...

Fair enough

...3. As far as equality goes, where do we draw the line? Should group marriages be legal? Should someone be allowed to marry their sister, brother, father, mother, first cousin, etc., etc.? Should someone be allowed to marry their cat, dog, donkey, sheep, goat? Is bestiality or serial raping a sexual orientation and therefore entitled to equality? Enquiring minds want to know...

Polygamy; I don't have any problem with, although I suspect they'd be practically unworkable.

Incest; I think there are some medical reasons this is a bad idea, I also would question how some pre-existing relationships might adversely effect the decision making process of some people; ie elder siblings having 'power' over younger, I just don't think it's a good idea.

Bestiality; Until an animal can make clear it's understanding of the consequences of the legal contract it's entering into, then no.

Serial Rape; As with bestiality there is an issue of consent. You could say serial rapists already have equality, they are equally responsible for their own action, and the consequences of their actions and interactions with others under the law as everybody else.

 

[byteware]

Polygamy; I don't have any problem with, although I suspect they'd be practically unworkable.

As far anything preventing polygamy from being workable. The only issue that is really different from a regular marriage is what happens when one partner leaves a polygamous marriage (i.e. things don't get split 50/50 obviously). Minor changes to the current marriage law could deal with that though.

Incest; I think there are some medical reasons this is a bad idea, I also would question how some pre-existing relationships might adversely effect the decision making process of some people; ie elder siblings having 'power' over younger, I just don't think it's a good idea.

As far as medical reasons go, I read a study not to long ago that stated the effects of incest were not nearly as severe as previously believed.

(I live in Alabama... we read studies like that.... )


As far as "unequal power" in a relationship, as long as both are consenting, then they can do whatever the heck they want to... in my opinion.

 

[ElasticNinja]

As far as medical reasons go, I read a study not to long ago that stated the effects of incest were not nearly as severe as previously believed.

(I live in Alabama... we read studies like that.... )

Really?
The problem is that many conditions which need a gene to be present in both mother and father to start are easy to happen (I believe CF is one of them) in this situation...

 

[byteware]

Really?
The problem is that many conditions which need a gene to be present in both mother and father to start are easy to happen (I believe CF is one of them) in this situation...

Actually, the problem comes that you have gene degradation. If one sister and one brother were to produce a child, it wouldn't be as bad as say 5th generation of interbreeding.

 

[fsc]

I'm a bit hesitant to jump into a heated debate about something like this on an Android Forum especially as a new member but here goes.

This conversation seems a bit myopic considering this is an international forum. Just look at the rest of the world. Other countries we are fighting alongside in Iraq and Afghanistan allow gay service memebers. Our troops don't seem to have trouble fighting with them and those battalions don't seem to have trouble having them. I think this alot more instructive to look at when making assumptions about what will happen when our laws change.

From wikipedia: Of the 26 countries that participate militarily in NATO, more than 22 permit gay people to serve; of the permanent members of the United Nations Security Council, three (Britain, France, Russia) permit gay people to serve openly, and two (United States, China) do not. All members of EU except Greece permit gay people to serve openly.

my $0.02