Epic4g is lead story on Slashdot


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  1. Bitbang3r

    Bitbang3r Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    For anyone who cares to comment about the Epic4G's current 150kbps upload limit, (or whatever else happens to annoy you) in a very, very public forum that will almost certainly get the attention of Sprint's public relations and marketing department heads (who will then scream at Sprint's higher management on our behalf to fix the problem and put out the media fire), check out this story, which is currently on Slashdot's front page:

    Slashdot Mobile Story | Users Say Sprint Epic4G 3G Upload Speeds Limited To 150kbps
     

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  2. Bperry

    Bperry Well-Known Member

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    So what's the big deal about this website vs the other forums. There are 16 pages of posts on thehorrible upload on just sprints own website/forum.

    they are lying when they say there is no problem or it is a individual problem. I think I will be trying to switch to verizon, f@*k sprint and their lies with more cost data package.
     
  3. Bitbang3r

    Bitbang3r Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    Slashdot gets readers who aren't necessarily hardcore Sprint-Android users, and also gets the attention of other tech blogs. Back when "hold different" was an inside joke on iPhone forums, nobody really cared, and it didn't really affect Apple. The moment it exploded onto Wired, Slashdot, CNET, it was only a matter of time until somebody mentioned it on CNN and MSNBC and took on a life of its own.

    Sprint's worst nightmare would be for this to become their own "deathgrip" meme. I can *guarantee* that right now, at least a few dozen Sprint employees have already had their Sunday afternoon ruined and are in crisis mode over this.
     
  4. Flaspeneer

    Flaspeneer Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for reminding us to respond, Bitbang3r. I'll post on Slashdot after I get home (since XScape seems to hide parts of the text entry field, making lengthy responses in the browser difficult from my Epic).

    Everyone should do the same, and don't forget to link to pertinent threads and individual posts for corroboration.


     
  5. Blitzpwnage

    Blitzpwnage Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    There is some amusing customer service, anyone know how to circulate that quickly and effectively.
     
  6. Flaspeneer

    Flaspeneer Well-Known Member

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    Most people circulate such things by posting them in threads wherever they can (Giz, Engadget, etc.). You can also Google "Epic GPS" and "Epic 4G upload cap" and post it in the first threads that come up.
     
  7. Aero1

    Aero1 Well-Known Member

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    Frankly it is a scandal. I am certainly going to make a case to Sprint that I should not be paying my $40 a month in 4x$10 extra 3G feels specific to Epic until fixed.

    My speeds are much worse than the much older (two year old wm 6.1's) we replaced and now we pay $40 more just for a supposed better 3g experience.

    Sprint could easily get hit with and lose a class action on the $10 fee if they dont fix it or get samsung to fix it asap.

    I think they will fix it due to pressure, but I am not convinced it isn't intentional. I can see the GPS bug escaping their detection because their testers would have been doing a lot of resets blinding them to the stickiness problem, but I cannot believe that 3G speed tests are not a top ten of their formal testing and certification process
     
  8. Bitbang3r

    Bitbang3r Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    Naw, I'm sure it was an accident... or at worst, known about and pushed to the bottom of Sprint's 'to do' list before release day. Remember, the entire metro area around Sprint's HQ has 4G, so the people who were directly involved with its development and went home every day with a prototype Epic4G in their pockets almost never encountered 3G... and when they did, it was with a phone that was a prototype(*), so even if there was a problem, they never saw it themselves. And if there was, they knew who to call on the phone to get the cell site fixed... and somewhere along the line, the other 400,000 or so sites across America ended up falling through the cracks ;-)

    (*)Most people don't realize it, but final-prototype hardware tends to be MORE fault-tolerant than production hardware, because at the prototype stage, nobody is trying hard to build it the cheapest way possible. When you take 5,000 parts that all work flawlessly when spec'ed to .1% tolerance, and build the same circuit with parts that are nowhere near as precise... well... things get flaky. And only get worse. The Epic4G phones being sold today are almost guaranteed to be of higher quality than the Epic4G phones unwrapped on Christmas Day. Remember, the first generation is when they find the edge cases they forgot about. The second generation is usually the best it will be. From the third generation onward, it's all downhill because the only thing that matters from that point is cutting the cost of a product with a falling price point.
     
  9. robl45

    robl45 Well-Known Member

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    have you called to have them refunded yet, I have to call soon, someone mentioned they got it done on one of the forums after speaking to a manager. everyone needs to call, once they get the 10 dollar fee rammed down their throats, they will fix it. its either fee gets removed or phones go back. I'm tolerant and can deal, but i sure as heck won't pay for something I'm not getting. Actually I might and sue them as we would win instantly.

     
  10. Aero1

    Aero1 Well-Known Member

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    Not sure how you can exclude anything. I may not think the most likely answer is an intentional cap, but as I said I am not convinced you can (or in your argument, did) exclude it. For all qwe know Evo with its front facing video camera, and ability to up higher def videos did present strains on their 3g and "fixed" this with epic. I am not asserting this is the case but it is not excluded logically. It would not be the first time sprint created hard line changes between models of phones in the same inherent capability class (eg why an Instinct required higher priced plans than a touch pro 2, lol).

    Furthermore entireley different divisions in Sprint would be reasonable for product development and for network maintenance.

    I also do not think your explanation accurately reflects the certification process. General sprint employees on ambassador or beta are not the cert processes, which is stringent. 3G speeds on the release firmware, have to be on the top ten of their cert process.

    Since the it is not just testing with a variety of standard test programs and test sites showing a prblem, and an accutre and obvious one at that, but bundled application that are to take advantage of upload and work on other deivices on 3G (video chat, upload of video) it is hard to see how they could have missed it. So it is either: a) gross incompetence, b) seeing it and ignoring it because of a rush to market due to evo availability constraints or c) intentional.

    Does "b" or as you say "known about and pushed to the bottom of Sprint's 'to do' list", given that Sprint is on the record claiming they discovered a couple of days ago, make you feel more or less confident?


    Adn you are conflating alpha nd beta. The beta test units are in fact often normal prodcution wiht differnt firmware. we in fac tknow of a coupel of pre releae firmware revisons.
     
  11. Bitbang3r

    Bitbang3r Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    Neither. I think you hit the nail on the head -- a crushing shortage of the Evo, pressure at all levels to release the phone at the earliest possible date, and the reality that whenever something gets pushed too hard, fundamental things occasionally fall through the cracks. I can guarantee Sprint tested the phone's 4G performance quite well. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if I were to discover that the Epic is completely incapable of circuit-switched CDMA, and has serious problems moving back and forth between 1xRTT and EVDO. For one thing, "marginal condition" tests are really hard to pull off under real-world conditions. You can simulate edge cases in a lab, but you'll never replicate the kind of conditions that exist in real life.

    Sprint isn't NASA. They have official procedures... and like everywhere else, when it comes down to a hard deadline with hopeless mandates and impossible goals that simply aren't going to be met in time, things get triaged at the last minute, skimmed over, and/or temporarily kicked to the curb. That's reality. It doesn't mean those same procedures won't be used to scapegoat someone, but it's the truth. When it comes down to a vast, secret conspiracy to massively throttle uploads, vs "ohshitwefsckedup", it almost always comes down to "oops".

    I majored in both engineering and public relations, so I have a fairly good bit of insight into both. PR, Marketing, and Management come screaming and make impossible demands... engineering & development tells them they're crazy, gives them the real timetable, then finally gets beaten up into saying, "ok, fine, you win, now leave us alone so we can get back to work". PR, Marketing, and Management leave, happy and confident that it's going to get done... engineering and development sighs, knowing that it's not going to happen without divine intervention.

    IMHO, the only real screw-up here (given the reality that they DID have to release the Epic ASAP) was that Sprint didn't have someone already monitoring forums like this, press release already written, acknowledging the upload issue and announcing a retroactive credit in the neighborhood of $10-25/month, prorated from the purchase date to the date the problem is officially solved. Instantly, the whole issue would have been defused. Some people would still gripe, but most owners would just sigh and forget about it.

    Notice how once Apple announced the free skins, 99.9% of the bad press not coming from comedians and fanboys went away? They defused it. When Apple tried to deny there was a problem, they looked like complete tools (at best), and the poster child for Evil Corporate America at worst. After saying, "Yeah, we screwed up. Here's a band-aid, and you can get a refund if you're really not happy", their opponents had nothing left to really attack them with. Someday, that will be the first case study in every PR textbook in America.
     
  12. Flaspeneer

    Flaspeneer Well-Known Member

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    Nicely put, Bitbang3r.

    Props for not going on the defensive after one of the most helpful and exacting people here took apart your previous post point by point. Sticking to the topic was your best rebuttal and you made it without losing your cool. The last paragraph's particularly good.
     
  13. CoyoteBlue

    CoyoteBlue Member

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    Oh. My. god. !!! :eek:
    You're in my office!
    Sam, is that you?!? :rolleyes:
     
  14. Aero1

    Aero1 Well-Known Member

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    Look, I think you are mostly right and that is why I said so. But I do wish you would not characterize the possibility (as I said, not my first choice of what is happening) of throttling as a "vast" or "secret consipracy". This denigrates the postulation of this as one possibility to the tin foil hat realm, and that simply is not the right place for it. Lots of companies engage in in hidden throttling of services. Netflix did it, denied they were doing it, said it was imagined, and than later admitted they had been doing it for years. On data specifically lots of providers have denied it only to be demonstrated to be doing it by packet type or gross amount. It is common. Again I don't think it is the case and said so, but it cannot be excluded.

    As far as PR and Engineering that is my background as well! Although my grad degree is in PR.

    Lastly the testing and certification of these products, which hook us into service agreements of vastly more expense, is a service we are paying for. CDMA providers do somethign GSM prioviders don't, which is limit the devices your can use on the system you contract to for two years to a handful. Those handful also cannot be bought from the maker. We barely have not relationship or recourse to the maker, but rather to the co-brander, Sprint.

    I am willing to accept that there was a dropped ball in testing. I still would categorize their missing of the big fat GPS bug as understandable given the number resets they were probably doing daily, while missing the 3G speeds seems incredible. But in any case they had seriously better consider refunding prorated everyone's $10 per epic fee until this is issue is fixed. Right now I think they have a lot of damage control coming up.
     

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