Discussion in 'Android Devices' started by darklide, Oct 19, 2011.
I would love Ice Cream Sandwich on my Atrix!
I would too. Consedering we got GB not to long ago, we might not see it until mid late 2012, but who knows maybe the google motorola merger thing might speed things up.
Some of us are still waiting for Gingerbread, dammit...
Custom roms FTMFW
Exactly, I am still waiting for my OTA Gingerbread. Seriously bummed about this, may not buy another Motorola phone again!
Phone Motorola up. And besides Motorola has the best antennas and circuits in their phones so stick with Motorola!
And, I honestly won't be upset if there is never an ICS for the ATRIX. I would rather wait until the OS has been out a while, kinks worked out of it, and get a new phone built to run it. It will usually be a much nicer experience than reverse coding ICS down to a phone released 2 builds back.
Think of it like computers.... Take a nice computer built, designed and optimized for Windows XP. Sure, that computer will probably run Windows 7 no problem. But, what about Windows 8? Maybe you can get it running on there, maybe it runs great, maybe it runs like crap, maybe not at all.
So, no, I'm in no hurry to get a rushed ICS build for our Atrix phones. I'd rather stick with what works until time to upgrade my phone.
Given this article showing ICS running on the (now antique) Nexus one, there is hope for an ICS build for our phones...
Nexus One Running Ice Cream Sandwich & What it Means for You
However, what remains is if Motorola will follow HTC's lead ( [FONT="]HTC Avoids Android 4.0 Uprising – Ice Cream Sandwich Coming to Most Devices) and put out an official build, or if it will only come from one of the many Custom ROM builders.
Myself, I DEPEND on my phone, so I don't fool with custom ROM's. So, if Moto does not release an official build, my phone may never see ICS (unless I get a new phone and this one get's to become my "Test Subject" - ***Insert evil laugh here***).
Maybe this will hold you over...
Android 4.0 Ice Cream Sandwich On Any Android Phone [Video]
This is a silly thing to say. First off, correct me if I'm wrong but hasn't motorola supplied a way to upgrade to gingerbread through a placing one of their official downloads onto your sdcard? Anyway...where are you going to go, Samsung? I had the samsung galaxy s captivate, and if you want to see an example of a truly ludicrous amount of wait time between upgrades, look at the galaxy s line. If you truly want quick upgrades, the only thing you can do is get a google nexus phone.
Traditionally, motorola and htc have been faster than samsung to upgrade firmware, but there's no telling yet on whether samsung has straightened up their act. We'll find out depending on how fast the motorola razr and samsung galaxy s 2 get their upgrades. I doubt the atrix and other phones that came out Q1 and Q2 this year will see ics until late Q1 next year.
Also, the Atrix 4G has had three updates this year alone. I that's pretty good for a cellphone. Remember that these cellphones are coming out so fast now and the manufactures are trying to make money. (To get you to upgrade your phone.)
I think the SD card builds are limited by carrier. And, that's where the real hold up is, more than it's Motorola's fault.
They have to put out a version for each carrier. Those of us on AT&T got ours. Those on other carriers have not. It's not that Motorola has not built GB for the phones. Those carriers have yet to test that build on their network, and have not provided all of their branding into the build for Moto to release.
It's no Moto's fault. It's the carrier that's the hold up.
The nice thing with BB was that we could download builds from other carriers, delete a vendor.xml file, and load it on our AT&T phones with no problems.
Those of us in Europe are getting the shaft royally. Still no GB update, let alone anything else. Thus the idea of not buying Motorola products again is a good one. Other manufacturers at least update worldwide, they are not US centric as it appears Motorola are...
Did you not even read my post just before yours??
It's not Motorola's fault. They can't put out the build for your carrier until the carrier approves it.
Don't blame Motorola. They have GB for the Atrix ready and deployed to carriers that have tested and approved it.
Blame your CARRIER. They are the road block. Example" If you are on Orange UK and they have not released GB for your phone (I'm not sure if they have or haven't - I'm just pulling them as an example. Orange and Vodaphone UK are the only 2 carriers over there I know by name), it's because Orange UK has not told Motorola it's OK. Maybe Orange has not fully tested the phone running GB on their network. Maybe Orange has not finished giving them the tweaks (Customization) that they want in the build for their customers. OR, Maybe Orange does not want you you have GB on the phone to make you want to upgrade to a new phone.
But, It's NOT Motorola's fault!
Although I appreciate what you're saying about the delays from carriers is true, the GB delay in the UK is actually down to Motorola - they have still not released the GB update to retail (ie non-carrier supplied) Atrixes over here. Current speculative date is mid-November for retail updates (according to the latest posts on the Motorola support forum and electricpig
On the back of Motorola's original promise (via an electricpig interview) of simultaneous updates for USA & UK customers, this is a pretty poor show; it could have been mitigated a lot if they had actually come forward with what I'm sure are valid reasons for the delay. But instead they went down the route of keeping their customers in the dark
That eletricpig article makes a very wrong assumption that the problem is with updating MotoBlur... that has nothing to do with it. Motoblur is the same for both systems. If the problem was updating Motoblur, it would have delayed even the US builds.
I'll take an even more LOGICAL (and educated) guess and say that the delay has been from the carrier testing of the radio/network on this build. Even the UNLOCKED phones have to be performance/compatibilty tested on the carriers networks. Or would you rather they push out an untested update that may or may not work properly???
It's the carrier branded builds that I really don't know if radio/network testing is the ONLY holdup. Usually, after they do that testing, they have to have all of their "tweaks" added to the build.
EDIT - for clarification of how the process works for those that don't understand.
1) The OEM (in this case Motorola) gives the carriers a GENERIC build of the OS for testing on their network. They work with the carriers trying to get any "Bugs" out related to the functionality of the build.
2) Once carriers are satisfied with the build, it splits into 2 paths. Path one, the OEM releases that "Generic" build for the unlocked phones. Path two is that the carriers start "Customizing" the build for their use.
3) Once the carriers have finished butchering the build (Adding their logos, boot animations, custom bloatware apps...), then the OEM releases that build for the users on that carrier.
To heck with the software update, that thread title made me hungry.
I don't know what that is... but I WANT IT!!!
I don't recall ever suggesting that I would like an untested build, nor do I think I am being illogical in holding Motorola responsible.
Motorola employees made the original suggestion of a simultaneous release, and have chosen to keep quiet about changes in timescales / reasons for delay.
From an end user perspective Motorola have let us down by:
- offering something that they cannot guarantee (because they are not fully responsible for delivery)
- failing to communicate with their customers.
As such I consider them responsible for the delays, because they have made no real attempt to clarify matters to some 88 pages of disgruntled customers in their own support forums. When I and my team delay a software release, we provide clear reasons why (if we didn't then we would expect to lose customers) and we take responsibility where we are working with third parties to supply a feature.
Personally I'm pretty happy with my Atrix apart from a few specific issues that Gingerbread is rumored to mitigate / resolve. I purchased it based on what it could do with Froyo, rather than what *might* be introduced in the future.
However when I compare their poor communication regarding updates against Asus, who have been extremely communicative regarding updates, fixes and ICS for the Transformer series, I am unlikely to choose Motorola for my next phone.
Where can I get that cake from ? O_O
Think about this... Asus does not have to deal with carriers and carrier contracts that limit what they can say publicly about the releases.
In other words, Asus does not have a contractual "Non-disclosure" ball-gag stuck in their mouth by the carriers.
Again, Blame Motorola if you want. You are wrong, but it's your right to be wrong.
Motorola is great about communications when they have a problem that they can talk about, like the Motoblur interface or hardware issues. But, when the problem is with the carriers, and they have a contractual obligation MUTING them to it, they can't talk about it. So, take their lack of communications as it is something they can't talk about. What can they not talk about? Problems related to the carriers.
Second, what's the difference between a build for a US phone verses the UK phones? Carrier related issues like radios/network compatibility. Obviously, they have GB working, we have it here in the states. What's the difference? The carriers.
The lowest common denominator are the carriers. Thus, logic dictates that's where to assume the hold up is.
I understand your frustration. I just want to make sure you aim it in the right direction.
Hey there Wolfman, I respectfully disagree with some of your prior post. I also depend on my phone, which is why I unlocked the bootloader, rooted it and run nothing but custom roms. Why custom roms over OTA manufacturer releases? Part of my need for a dependable phone is a matter of trust: I trust custom rom creators (or at least the ones I know well enough to install their products on my phone) and I have no trust whatsoever in Motorola or AT&T (actually, *any* manufacturer or carrier) because the carrier wants to load bloatware onto every phone they service and the manufacturers have their own agendas. The really good custom rom developers have no need or desire to install bloatware in their roms, are usually quick to respond to questions or problems that are directed to them, and in general take pride in their product. Since their products are offered free of charge, there's no monetary gain from loading junk programs like golf or other games into their rom.
I limit my endorsement of custom roms to "most developers" rather than "all developers" because there are some less than perfect developers out there. However, it has been my privilege to count a number of developers as personal friends and I know for a *fact* that these guys do what they do for a number of reasons, but money isn't one of them. They take pride in turning out a *quality* product that people will use and appreciate and while contributions are always nice to get, they don't expect (or usually get) money in return for their efforts. These guys, I trust.
Now switching back to the OTA scenario: Google creates the Android OS that we install, one way or another, on our phones. Google I trust. Unfortunately, with the exception of the Nexus line of phones, Google doesn't send their software directly to the end user. Instead, you have Motorola and the carrier (Verizon being the *prime* offender) who in acting as middlemen insert the bloatware (the carrier) and the "gotchas" (Motorola) which plague the phones of those of us who have chosen to mod our phones.
The solution: place your faith in those you trust (for me, custom rom developers and Google) and avoid the alternative (OTA updates) like the plague.
As I said upfront, I respectfully disagree with Wolfman, but this is just my slant on things. There's no right or wrong position, it's just whatever works for you and your phone.
This is not exactly correct. Google does release it to everyone (Including the public), through the ASOP...
Welcome to Android | Android Open Source
If you knew what you were doing, you could download the source code and build your own ROM.
As for OEM's verses custom ROMs... I run custom ROM's on my Tablet's. And, while they don't have the bloatware, there are always issues the ROM developers can't workout. Like drivers for some of the hardware.
Example: On my ViewSonic G-Tab. No one can get a HoneyComb based ROM to work the front facing camera due to the lack of drivers. In fact, about the only 3rd party ROM's that can get the front facing camera to work are still FroYo, and that's only because they can pull the OEM drivers out of the OEM ROM. The only exception to this that I've found is the VeganTAB ROM. It's GB, and I think the developer was able to trick it into using the FroYo camera drivers.
But, I don't depend on my tablet like I do my phone.
No one knows the hardware in my phone better than the OEM. That means, they are the most reliable on that matter. I'd rather deal with a little bloatware that, most of the time I can remove or disable to make sure I have a device with the most accurate device drivers.
Another point you miss on the OEM verses custom ROMs... WARRANTY. Like I said, I depend on my phone. If something goes wrong, I need to get it replaced ASAP. Motorola puts an eFuse in the Atrix that BLOWS if you unlock the bootloader. This means, if I were to unlock the bootloader, regardless of if I load another ROM or not, the Warranty is VOID. So, if the phone breaks, I'm up Sh!t Creek.
EDIT- Unlocking the bootloader on the Atrix and blowing that eFuse in the process also means you can never go back to an official, stock ROM. This means you can't simply FLASH an OEM ROM back onto the phone to take it in for a Warranty replacement.
Like you say, to each their own.
Myself, I find it easier and more reliable to uninstall that unwanted Golf Game, than to root my phone, unlock the bootloader, blow the eFuse, void the warranty, and load a 3rd party ROM on it.
As I indicated, it comes down to a matter of trust (You trust the manufacturer, I don't) as well as personal taste (You like the OS that Motorola delivers, by way of AT&T, I don't). I tried to conch my original posts in non-confrontational language, but you seem annoyed so we'll just drop the entire issue, OK?
Life goes on.
I'm not annoyed. I just pointed out the basis for why I think the OEM ROM's are better for me and my needs. Including information that I think people need to be aware of (IE: Blowing the eFuse, voiding the warranty, and never being able to come back to OEM).
After all, you explained why you think custom ROM's are better. I just figured it would be fair for me to explain my views.
Might I interject here and ask if anyone has ASKED the carrier in question OR Motorola where the hold up is? I mean actually speaking to someone at either end?
I know ... WAY too simple!