Google Responds To Cyanogen Uproar

Discussion in 'Android Lounge' started by phandroid, Sep 25, 2009.

  1. phandroid

    phandroid Admin News Bot
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    Apr 12, 2008
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    If you haven’t heard about the cease and desist letter that Google sent to famed Android OS modder Cyanogen, I suggest you read up before continuing this post. Google has posted a “response” of sorts, hoping to clear the air of their good name in light of “misconceptions” amidst the criticism. Here is an [...]

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  2. kabbie_mcfeely

    kabbie_mcfeely Well-Known Member
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    So developers can continue to build roms
    but they have to remove GOOGLE
    or anyone elses apps from the buils first ????


    That seems like a reasonable request from the GOOGLE folks. With all the talk about this, I thought they were trying to stop him from building roms. This just proves that its not what they were stopping.
     
  3. MrMattux

    MrMattux Well-Known Member
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    That's exactly why I don't get why Cyanogen is doom and gloom and drinking the night away right now. This sucks! It does, but that doesn't mean that you can't just learn a new way to do things. Maybe it will be better than before...
     
  4. ggrant3876

    ggrant3876 Well-Known Member
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    We have already paid for the apps in question, so what's the problem?
     
  5. SDscorch

    SDscorch Well-Known Member
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    zackly!


    google has just shot themselves in the foot! know what would have been BETTER?? if google just hired this guy and incorporated whatever he's doing into their process - from my perspective, they're PUNISHING a guy for doing GOOD


    you better believe this mod community is just gonna keep on kickin.. it'll go underground or whatever - and y'know what?? I'M GONNA BE A PART OF IT!!
     
  6. Edaze55

    Edaze55 Well-Known Member
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    I think part of the problem is when people start trying to put an android mod on a non-google phone.

    Much like HTC would be well within their right to send similar C&D letters if someone was cooking ROMs with Sense UI in it.

    I do think its a bit silly of Google to go about it this way, as some of the apps they are upset about seem like some of the most basic apps native to any google phone.

    Someone somewhere else mentioned that it rooting and adding new ROMs were for the nerdy/geeky type that liked that sort of thing. I think its a bit more wide spread than that, just based on all the folks I have seen popping in here with the whole, "Hi, Im new to android, non techy and want to root. By the way, what does root mean" sorta posts.

    If anything. Google should have offered Cyanogen a job, or worked with him and the community to give him the tools do to what he does without infringing on the apps, but instead, I bet they just end up "borrowing" some of the tweaks.

    edit:
    LOL You beat me to it Scorch.. maybe if I wasnt so long winded, but yea, they shoulda hired him.
     
  7. effextc

    effextc Member
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    I agree with the whole "hire him" thought.

    I was with the iPhone from day one and was a huge member of the mod'ing community (back when 1.1.3 was a huge deal). Apple started getting mad at all of us for jailbreaking our iPhones (not really unlocking them). We payed $400+ for them, let us do what we want (that's what we said).

    Prior to 1.1.3, all we had to do was go to a website and click a button and it would jailbreak our phone. Anyways, they popped out the release and tried to undo it all. The community kept on going and Apple kept trying to keep up. So, what did they do? They hired one of the lead guys from the "DevTeam". It was a big win for us for a little while. One of our own was on the inside.

    So, all in all, they might actually bring this guy on. It's one of those slap your wrist in public and then pat your back behind closed doors.
     
  8. deadite66

    deadite66 Well-Known Member
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    did cyanogen muck it up for every other modder by including the leaked new market app?, google have put up with modded firmwares for a year and now boom.
     
  9. MrMattux

    MrMattux Well-Known Member
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    Here's a thought: Who would be against paying for things such as CyanogenMod? I know I wouldn't. I'd pay for it in a heartbeat. Maybe Cyanogen could sell CyanogenMod and thus pay licensing fees for the parts of Android Google doesn't like him redistributing. I mean my phone is my phone, and if it takes a little bit of cash to have it how I like it...so what?
     
  10. kabbie_mcfeely

    kabbie_mcfeely Well-Known Member
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    If he had been charging for the Mods, he would be in alot more trouble.
     
  11. MrMattux

    MrMattux Well-Known Member
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    No, but I mean, at this point it would be better for him to work out a deal with Google so that he pays them to license the apps and we pay him for the mods.
     
  12. deadite66

    deadite66 Well-Known Member
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  13. MrMattux

    MrMattux Well-Known Member
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    See? Cyanogen doesn't need to be all doom and gloom. He got us all hot and bothered. :p
     
  14. punkzanyj

    punkzanyj Well-Known Member
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    I don't get what the big deal is either.

    The OS is open source

    Gmail, Gtalk, GoogleVoice, etc, etc, etc are not.

    Pretty simple to me. Yes, Google is smart and nice enough to include it's own developed versions of their products and pre-load them onto Android, but that doesn't make them part of the OS.

    Seems to be some confusion believing that since one google product (android) is free and open source that ALL of their other products are suddenly free and open source.

    If anything, I think Cyanogen may have given open source a bad name (not that there weren't already skeptics anyway!). This is probably what MS, Apple and other companies are afraid of, that some dev will come along and start doing this stuff with their non-open products.
     
  15. MrMattux

    MrMattux Well-Known Member
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    Yeah, and at least Google isn't pulling an Apple by saying that rooting, itself, is illegal. They just don't want the closed software that they distribute alongside their open software to be redistributed without license.
     
  16. RozzaC

    RozzaC Well-Known Member
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    Ok...I've sort of just read this stuff up....

    I'm REALLY confused as to what the big deal is...

    My understanding is...

    Cyanogen makes a ROM off an Android Build...
    Google comes along and says "Hey...don't make a ROm that includes our Google apps.."
    The world goes crazy...

    Have I missed something here?

    Because all it seems to me is that Google want you to modify the OS..without including their applications....

    Isn't that just like installing an empty operating system? What's the big deal about that?

    You don't go to a store, buy Windows off-the-shelf and have it pre-loaded with Microsoft Office, do you?

    I MIGHT be missing something important here so please feel free to enlighten me....
     
  17. punkzanyj

    punkzanyj Well-Known Member
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    this is no different than when the paid apps showed up and all the people who didn't do their homework got all crazy like "what happened to open source?'

    same thing happened when that first tether app was yanked from the market "what happened to open source?"


    Apparently some folks think that Open Source = Utter Chaos.


    I'm waiting for someone to walk off with one of those Android Netbooks, and when they get arrested for theft, telling the cops "but it's open source!!!!"

    This is a curb 2 inches high that far too many people can't seem to get over.
     
  18. MrMattux

    MrMattux Well-Known Member
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    I don't think anyone would go that far, but there are definitely people who don't understand that the concept of ownership still exists in an Open Source environment.
     
  19. effextc

    effextc Member
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    I think it's important to note some things about Open Source and what it means.

    I was doing some research about how Android is licensed and it's not the typical definition of "Open Source".

    Commonly, when people refer to "Open Source", it's an item that has been released under the GNU General Public License. This what the majority of all Linux distros and their software are released as. Things released under the GNU GPL are typically Copyright-less and you are free to distribute and repackage as you'd like.

    Google decided not to release Android under the GNU GPL and went with the Apache Open Source License.

    Now, I'm not expert on either of the licenses and I'm less knowledgeable about the Apache License but... Android isn't as open as we'd like to think it is.

    Plus, if I understand correctly, the Google apps that come pre-installed are not GNU GPL or even Apache licensed. They are copyrighted code with all rights being maintained by Google. Same with Sense UI and HTC.

    So, RozzaC kinda hit the nail on the head. Google is giving us the freedom to do as we wish with the OS (within reason). It's cool to mod that like crazy... we just can't package licensed products in it with out permission. I belive, we can package it with other products that are licensed under the GNU GPL though.
     
  20. Rightontime

    Rightontime Well-Known Member
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    From what i understand, google makes money from companies wanting to use their closed source apps( gmail, gtalk, market, etc). If they let cyanogen and other people to distribute ROM's using their closed source apps for free, whats stopping other companies like motorola or HTC from doing the same thing?
     
  21. Brian

    Brian Active Member
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    finally somebody answered the question everybody keeps asking...but now that its all over and done with why couldnt he buy the apps from google just like htc or motorola and charge for his mod accordingly??? probably make some money legitimately...and for the cheapasses he could still release the 'way around' mods as well
     
  22. 206wick

    206wick New Member
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    open source isn't the issue concerning anyone on this.
    I hate to say, but it is the "grey market" phones out there that are the major issue.
    Lately, if you have been looking around, China and some other countries have been flooding that market with clones that look nearly identical to the popular machines out there like the iphone and magic (touch).
    There would be nothing to stop(aside from IMEI, which can't be used in some regions do to privacy and other issues) people from buying these Knock-off's and throwing all the G-apps onto them with-out paying the royalties like HTC and the like had done.
    It's not about google as much as it is the phone makers bitch*ng about what they had spent all that money on. That is the phones sale point.
    The reason cyanogen can't just license the apps would be something about a few million dollars, lawyers, accountants and so forth.

    The biggest mess is that google had built the base system (open source part) in such a way, that it is nearly impossible to not use their bits and pieces that are open. That's why the new DL is such a pain for many noobs.

    This is why, if you use cyanogen's new mods, you shouldn't buy him a beer, YOU SHOULD BUY HIM A CASE.

    He has invested mucho time into resolving these issues for us all to take for free if we want.
     

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