Health Care - STOP believeing the BULL and buying the SCAM

[batgeek]

No, he doesn't win. He is still in Canada, or Utopia, or Valhalla, or wherever. It's obvious that he has no real grasp on economics, but has intently studied the ramblings found on Huffington Post and The Politico, and feels a strong need to demonize.

Either that, or he IS trying to convince himself more than us!

you ignore him and that means you are running away from his arguements. he wins.

you stay and fight against his arguements. that's what this American does.

Nothing is over until we decide it is!!!! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?!?!?! Hell, no!!!!

 

[batgeek]

i can not speak for the Tea Party as i am not of their ilk. but i am doing just fine, thank you.

 

[droiduzr2]

you ignore him and that means you are running away from his arguements. he wins.

you stay and fight against his arguements. that's what this American does.

Nothing is over until we decide it is!!!! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?!?!?! Hell, no!!!!

WOW! The Germans huh.
I am pretty sure you called me ignorant few posts back.
Now we see why people like you are are unable to provide solutions or think of ways of improving things.

Good going there...the GERMANS!
BAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAH

You Sir just demonstrated a basic level of stupidity about your OWN DAMN COUNTRY but that's okay keep saying NO to Education.

 

[batgeek]

wow. never watched Animal House eh? i can see why you used to be an American. lost your sense of humor and had to leave the USA.

 

[batgeek]

WOW! The Germans huh.
I am pretty sure you called me ignorant few posts back.
Now we see why people like you are are unable to provide solutions or think of ways of improving things.

Good going there...the GERMANS!
BAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAH

You Sir just demonstrated a basic level of stupidity about your OWN DAMN COUNTRY but that's okay keep saying NO to Education.

oh...i had to quote this for posterity. and for everyone that has seen Animal House...to laugh at you.

 

[droiduzr2]

wow. never watched Animal House eh? i can see why you used to be an American. lost your sense of humor and had to leave the USA.

oh...i had to quote this for posterity. and for everyone that has seen Animal House...to laugh at you.

Oh yes, you demonstrated your IGNORANCE and so you BLAME IT ON A MOVIE. You REALLY think everyone watches the same movies as you from 1978 and given all the important issues of the day would use a line from a movie as a defense.

Just when I thought you could not sink any lower.

 

[batgeek]

wow. just wow. amazing.

this thread has the potential for 2 thumbs up...as long as you continue posting in it. entertainment at it's best.

 

[Mr. Boom]

I am pretty sure that this guy's whole intent here is to cause hate and discontent. I am not going to take the bait and get angry. You wallow with pigs and you get muddy!

Like i said, he obviously has no grasp of economics, or what causes economic growth if he believes the liberals are the answer!

 

[batgeek]

i'm not in any way angry. i was trying to interject a little comedic lightness into the thread....but it went WAAAAAAAAYYYYYYY over one individual's head.

 

[Mr. Boom]

i'm not in any way angry. i was trying to interject a little comedic lightness into the thread....but it went WAAAAAAAAYYYYYYY over one individual's head.

Oh yeah, i know. The rest of us got it though!

 

[droiduzr2]

I am pretty sure that this guy's whole intent here is to cause hate and discontent. I am not going to take the bait and get angry. You wallow with pigs and you get muddy!

Like i said, he obviously has no grasp of economics, or what causes economic growth if he believes the liberals are the answer!

Clearly comprehension eludes you.
I guess Eduction is another Liberal thing too.

You are telling me about grasping economics when you don't even own your currency. How can you control your economy when you don't even own your Federal Bank or the dollar in your wallet?

Start here:

[SIZE=+1]Adams, Jefferson, and Lincoln believed that banker capitalism was more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. In a republic, banks would lend money but could not create or manufacture it.

The Federal Reserve Is A privately Owned Corporation

[/SIZE]

 

[Mr. Boom]

Clearly comprehension eludes you.
I guess Eduction is another Liberal thing too.

You are telling me about grasping economics when you don't even own your currency. How can you control your economy when you don't even own your Federal Bank or the dollar in your wallet?

Start here:

[SIZE=+1]Adams, Jefferson, and Lincoln believed that banker capitalism was more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. In a republic, banks would lend money but could not create or manufacture it.

The Federal Reserve Is A privately Owned Corporation

[/SIZE]

Geez fella, at least get your history right. It was not banker capitalism that they thought dangerous, it was a CENTRALIZED GOVERNMENT RUN bank.

So don't go spoutin' things you have little grasp of.

Like a previous poster asked.....if you are so happy with your new home, why are you so obsessed with the old one? Who are you trying to convince?

 

[batgeek]

if you are so happy with your new home, why are you so obsessed with the old one?

that's what i don't get either.

the rest of the world: "we do it better so everyone should be like us!"
the USA: "we do it our way. **** the way you guys do it."

sadly, our current President thinks like the rest of the world.

 

[Mr. Boom]

that's what i don't get either.

the rest of the world: "we do it better so everyone should be like us!"
the USA: "we do it our way. **** the way you guys do it."

sadly, our current President thinks like the rest of the world.

..and i bet this guy thinks Obozo is Awesome! Eh!

(not you batgeek, the fella from CA)

I say let him and Canada have him! They deserve him! And we don't want him anymore!

 

[batgeek]

i failed my Awesome 101 course in college. twice.

 

[bbrosen]

i do not let my insurance company make my healthcare decisions for me and neither should anyone else. My insurance has the coverage I am willing to pay for, my option, no one forces me to pay for it. I have it to help lessen any financial hit I may take on medical care for me and my family. Insurance companies provide a service, that is an option for one to buy or not. simple as that. Insurance companies do not provide healthcare, Doctors do. If government does healthcare, then they will decide who gets what and when. yes one can choose to have less freedom and more security and feel comfy, others prefer the rewards and risks of freedom. everyone is different. But someone somewhere has to pay for all this.....if healthcare becomes a right, what about car insurance? Life insurance? home owners insurance? where and when does it stop, who decides and why? Also, why should i pay for someone who drinks smokes does drugs, lives an extreme sports lifestyle and incurs more risk? should I be forced to pay for them? Now it's a choice but soon it may not. In America freedom and freedom of choice is a big part of who we are. I am glad you are happy with your government, but here our government turns everything into a redtape bureaucratic mess and costs go way up and takes 10 times longer, so yea it's frightenting to think they will run healthcare.

 

[bbrosen]

PS what Obama and the liberals passed was not healthcare, but a law to force everyone to buy healthcare insurance. If you do not purchase it and you can afford it, the government takes it directly out of your bank account each year. Very fast, convenient, and easy right? Just what we needed!

 

[copestag]

you know I always find it funny when foreigners discuss the US debt........ they quickly want to say 12-13 Trillion (which is GROSS debt) and compare it to their own in this case canada which he says 500Billion (public debt)

first .... as of right now Canadas 'public' debt is 550Billion and growing by the minute...... their 'gross' debt is around 900Billion or more

second .... comparing public debt and gross debt is apples and oranges.......

if you want to use the 550Billion 'public' debt from canada... then compare it to the approx 7Trillion 'public' debt from the US..... it makes a considerable difference dollar wise

also I need to correct you in your facts YET again.... this is not an "all time high" for canada..... their debt peaked higher in 1997.... granted it slightly declined between 1998 and 2008.... but it was higher then than now.... of course next year you can say "all time high" as your debt is predicted to continue growing until at least 2015 before it can level (this assumes the measures put in place to slow its growth actually work)

now back to the comparisons..... you cant simply compare debts between nations because of various differences between nations... not the least of which is population and size of the economy....... so among the best ways to compare 2 nations is to compare their debt per capita and their debt as % of GDP

lets take 2009 for example since thats the most recent year that all figures are in for:

the debt per capita in the US was somewhere in the neighborhood of $9K less than that in Canada (2009 US approx $27K, Canada approx $36K)

the debt%GDP in canda was about 24% higher in Canda than it was in the US (2009 US approx 58%, Canada approx 82%)

when you look at the fact that Canadians are already taxed much more heavily than those in the US and their debt is so staggering when using legitimate comparisons... I would have to say your economy isnt as rosey you would like for everyone to believe...... and coincidentally most economists agree with me

now ask yourself this.... recognizing that Canada is in such dire economic straits and seeing the trend continuing to worsen....... and also given that theyre already squeezing blood from turnips (the taxpayers)... exactly how long do you think your own country will last before it goes bankrupt?

if you would like I can write a letter to Obama and ask him to offer your Prime Minister some pointers ....... ROFL

 

[Mr. Boom]

So where is our friend now? Off doing research on trolls.com? Or reading MSNBC and CNN and Huffington Post articles looking for more talking points?

 

[batgeek]

and also given that theyre already squeezing blood from turnips (the taxpayers)... exactly how long do you think your own country will last before it goes bankrupt?

but it's the people's money. the money he makes is the people's money. the money his neighbor makes is the people's money. et cetera. they'll never go bankrupt because as long as people are working in Canada, the people's money will never disappear like Fortuna's Horn of Plenty!


for those that didn't get it, that was a satirical post.

 

[Akalon]

First I'm a Canadian, I love our medical system but I will be the first to say it's nowhere near perfect.

That being said, I would like to point out that our medical system is not run by the federal government, It's run independently by each province. There are basic guidelines that are regulated by federal mandate but besides that each province is free to do with health care as they see fit. This sometimes can be problematic just look at Quebec, major doctor shortages, longer wait times and often over worked staff leading to short tempers.

I would like to touch on the subject of our health care system costing us much more in taxes than what the US system costs. I'm sure there are cases either way but in my example it's no where close to that. See, my friend who was making about $100 more per pay than me before taxes and insurance. After taxes we were only about $1 difference. I have extra insurance for Dental, eye and prescription along with some other coverage like $1200/year for chiropractic and massage therapy through my work. At the time this cost me about $32 per pay for family coverage for my wife and myself. Not exactly sure what his covered but I do know he didn't have anything extra like chiropractic or massage therapy. If it were true that our system cost more through taxes than yours I would have made much less than him take home rather than being equal wouldn't it? Obviously this is anecdotal at best cause his company could have just had a really expensive health plan, but it also proves the point that saying it costs us more because we are taxed for it is anecdotal at best as well.

I realize that many Americans don't have any clue about our system other than what they have heard in the media or people they know. On the other hand many Canadians don't know about the American system in the same way. I have experienced both systems and while I didn't have to pay anything out of pocket for my visit to the ER in the States I can't say I wasn't worried about the cost. Wait time was a bit less but that could be attributed to anything really so it's a moot point.

Honestly I would like to see Canada and US come up with a two tiered system. I really do think it should be a right that every person be covered for at least basic health. There shouldn't be worry about going into debt just to stay alive. That being said, I really do support the extra comfort that comes with a pay for system. If I don't want to wait for a non-emergency procedure I shouldn't have to if I have the means to pay for it.

 

[Mr. Boom]

Honestly I would like to see Canada and US come up with a two tiered system. I really do think it should be a right that every person be covered for at least basic health. There shouldn't be worry about going into debt just to stay alive. That being said, I really do support the extra comfort that comes with a pay for system. If I don't want to wait for a non-emergency procedure I shouldn't have to if I have the means to pay for it.

Here, there is this thing.....in any county or city subsidized hospital (read most) you cannot be refused treatment because of inability to pay. You still get treated. The difference is that you either pay what you can afford, usually $5 a month, or many times the bill is simply written off. There is also the sliding fee scale.

So all the arguments about no one receiving care because they aren't covered is a bunch of hogwash! It is only a talking point used by the left and the left leaning media to instill fear and incite class warfare! That's right, the great unifier is intentionally causing division in our country. Well, he is trying to anyway. Not working to well for him and his cronies at the moment.

My wife works in insurance billing in a hospital, so i have a pretty good frame of reference on this.

 

[IOWA]

Here, there is this thing.....in any county or city subsidized hospital (read most) you cannot be refused treatment because of inability to pay. You still get treated. The difference is that you either pay what you can afford, usually $5 a month, or many times the bill is simply written off. There is also the sliding fee scale.

So all the arguments about no one receiving care because they aren't covered is a bunch of hogwash! It is only a talking point used by the left and thr left leaning media to instill fear and incite class warfare! That's right, the great unifier is intentionally causing division in our country. Well, he is trying to anyway. Not working to well for him and his cronies at the moment.

This.

 

[Akalon]

Here, there is this thing.....in any county or city subsidized hospital (read most) you cannot be refused treatment because of inability to pay. You still get treated. The difference is that you either pay what you can afford, usually $5 a month, or many times the bill is simply written off. There is also the sliding fee scale.

So all the arguments about no one receiving care because they aren't covered is a bunch of hogwash! It is only a talking point used by the left and thr left leaning media to instill fear and incite class warfare! That's right, the great unifier is intentionally causing division in our country. Well, he is trying to anyway. Not working to well for him and his cronies at the moment.

My wife works in insurance billing in a hospital, so i have a pretty good frame of reference on this.

I never said people can be refused treatment, so I would ask that you not assume that I was going there.

Why not allow for basic emergency treatment being covered for everyone? What is so wrong with people not having to worry about a bill just because they got injured or very ill? As you say this happens already where the hospital covers the cost. As it is when anyone goes to the hospital they are already paying for the people that have had the bill written off or reduced. You may not see it but it's an expected expense for the hospital they know how many write offs they average and add that into all bills.

I don't expect you to agree with me, what I wrote was my opinion and nothing more. You don't agree, fine, you don't have to. I'm not here to change anyone's mind. I simply wanted to give my input.

Not all Canadians see the pay for system as some horrible monster that needs to be killed at any cost. It's a flawed system as it stands and so is ours. How can we fix them? I don't know, but I think the two tiered systems allows for the best of both worlds.


Edit: I see now where you misunderstood me. I wasn't trying to imply what you thought. What I meant was that every person should be able to go for health treatment without a bill as they are leaving the hospital.

 

[nbm400]

Here, there is this thing.....in any county or city subsidized hospital (read most) you cannot be refused treatment because of inability to pay. You still get treated. The difference is that you either pay what you can afford, usually $5 a month, or many times the bill is simply written off. There is also the sliding fee scale.

So all the arguments about no one receiving care because they aren't covered is a bunch of hogwash! It is only a talking point used by the left and the left leaning media to instill fear and incite class warfare! That's right, the great unifier is intentionally causing division in our country. Well, he is trying to anyway. Not working to well for him and his cronies at the moment.

My wife works in insurance billing in a hospital, so i have a pretty good frame of reference on this.

The catch is the lack of basic care when you are without insurance. The ER will treat you for the heart attack you are having, in turn writing off thousands in charges and passing them onto customers with insurance... But seeing a family doctor and preventing the heart attack in the first place is much cheaper. Unfortunately our current health care system isn't set up to provide preventative medicine.