Help me (att data polling)


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  1. Snow_Fox

    Snow_Fox Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    I hate att's current data system.. I'm sure I don't have to explain how it is total and utter crap.

    I want to know how much data people use and with what phone. Att claims smartphones use "more data" so they require a more expensive data package.. However, I've never seen any real proof to back this up.. infact I've seen the exact opposite. I ha an e71x I used and accessed 0 data from at&t side using only wifi. Luckily I got mine before the mandatory 30$ data package.

    My girlfriend has a backflip now she uses moderately. She only uses the 3g network and has accessed roughly 100 mb of data a month.

    So if you would kindly help me.. I need your Phone, Your Usage, and how much data is actually used. dumb and smart phones welcomed. (Especially dumb phone users who use it alot). Feel free to describe your frequency of use..
     

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  2. HustlinDaily

    HustlinDaily Well-Known Member

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    How do we check our usage?

    Yeah its a ridiculous excuse for AT&T to nickel and dime you. When I had a Samsung Eternity, I was almost literally always on 3G. "Dumbphones" do not have WiFi and alot of these multimedia/messaging phones these days have 3G capabilities.

    I have a smartphone but I am on the $15/month medianet package (AT&T has not caught it yet). I was using a Cingular 2125 for the previous 8 months and got an Acer Liquid yesterday. The 2125 was EDGE capable only (probably why AT&T never caught it) and I plan on using this phone mostly on WiFi.

    How do we check our usage? Tho I have only had my phone for 2 days so my data probably would not be too good.
     
  3. tsanuri

    tsanuri Well-Known Member

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    It is not just the way AT&T does data. Veriozn is the same price and so is T-mobile if you are on contract. The only one of the majors that is cheaper is Sprint. And they are still loosing customers at a huge rate even doing it for less.
     
  4. Snow_Fox

    Snow_Fox Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    I know all major people do it.. but, I have att...

    and if people want to do it for other companies that is fine.. but, since I have at&t and I know more about at&t's system, then it makes the most sense for me to do a study on them.
     
  5. HustlinDaily

    HustlinDaily Well-Known Member

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    I also remember reading of instances where AT&T charged people for a smartphone data plan who bought unlocked/unsubsidized phones. I haven't heard of any company that does that besides AT&T.
     
  6. lordmaxx

    lordmaxx Well-Known Member

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    you can check your actual usage in Kb if you login and check your full bill. It has all the data amounts right there afaik.
     
  7. tsanuri

    tsanuri Well-Known Member

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    Cannot say about T-moblie. But the other 2 majors Sprint and Verizon donot do it but that is only because they are CDMA and in order for a phone to work on a CDMA network it has to be entered into the system. And unless they sell the phone that will not happen.
     
  8. colnago

    colnago Well-Known Member

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    T-Mobile, if they know you have a true smartphone (vs. a slider "messaging phone") will charge you the full smartphone data rates (Nokia N900). AT&T stated that the unlocked Nokia e71 was eligible for the $15 MediaNet plan...at least before they had a change in policy.

    As far as "smart phones use more data", well technically it is true, as the lower priced plans, for basic phones, have the internet presented in a different manner, compressed for the lower specs, such as slower processors, less RAM, smaller screens, etc. Basically, there is less data being sent since a "flip phone" is not going to get the full page of say msn.com, or hulu.com, but rather the "mobile version"...less data. There is always the "usage" argument, but on a page-per-page basis, they are right. With T-mobile and AT&T, flip phones go thru a different proxy server in most cases, to ensure this.
     
  9. HustlinDaily

    HustlinDaily Well-Known Member

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    My bad. I remember reading an article about how it is possible to get the cheaper data plan for TMo on an unsubsidized N1.
     
  10. colnago

    colnago Well-Known Member

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    It's still "possible", with any unlocked phone...whether or not you will be able to stay on the plan, and have the internet work is dependent on a few different factors.
     
  11. Ambictus

    Ambictus Well-Known Member

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    I guess I'll be the first to give actual numbers. These are for my wife as I don't really use the internet, nor do I have a smart phone.

    Samsung Eternity - 90-100MB/mo

    Now she has a Backflip - 400-450MB/mo
     
  12. Snow_Fox

    Snow_Fox Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    Thank you ambictus.

    that is quite the difference.. If I could get more results I would feel safer saying this.. but, so far it really seems like the issue is smartphones have the "capability" to use more data..

    @colnago.. my e71x defaults to mobile pages the same way my impression would if I had a data package.. So I would still use less data..

    More info would be appreciated.
     
  13. colnago

    colnago Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but your e71x, just like my girl's, renders "more" of a website, regardless of it being the "mobile" version, than say a "flip phone" such as my Moto V365. Try comparing that mobile web page to "dumb phone". Plus, you can get that e71, and like phones, to go to a site's "full version", in some cases. For instance, try loading www.newegg.com on an HTC Touch Pro 2 vs. a Motorola EM330 (flip phone), after clearing the data counters.

    I understand what you are trying to accomplish, but using peoples' monthly data counts is too arbitrary. Everyone has different browsing habits, and probably do less browsing with "dumb phones".
     
  14. Ambictus

    Ambictus Well-Known Member

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    You're dead on in saying that it's because smart phones have the capability of using more data. There's a lot more data streaming on them typically. More people have apps like twitter and facebook along with heavier e-mail usage. Also when you have the ability to surf the web more efficiently you're more likely to.

    I would say the majority of people who go from a feature phone to a smart phone use quite a bit more data.
     
  15. Snow_Fox

    Snow_Fox Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    @Colnago.. Rendering is done phone side.

    Also FWIW my girlfriend doesn't use wifi at all.

    However, I still want as much stats as possible..
     
  16. colnago

    colnago Well-Known Member

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    T-Mobile uses proxy servers to "present" data/web sites, based on phone type. At&t's "market", and the way it displays on my V365, makes me wonder if AT&T does the same...esp. given that I've removed my proxy address from my AT&T phone, and I am unable to reach some of their sites. From T-Mo's web site:

    javascript:var popupwin=this.window...s=no,resizable,scrollbars");popupwin.focus();

    "- Is the Internet on my phone the same as on my computer?

    All of the phones that T-Mobile currently sells can access the Internet websites if you have the appropriate data service. In some cases, the Web sites you visit are optimized to fit on the screen of your phone, making the experience seem different than on your home computer.
    Most companies will optimize their sites to be viewed on a mobile phone, but not all Web sites will be optimized. In cases where the site has not been optimized to fit on a small screen, the page may display incorrectly and some images or links will not display."



    T-Mo uses a different APN for its Web2Go $10/mo dumbphone service, vs. its $25/mo Smartphone plan. All traffic for the Web2Go comes out of the same IP address, where the Smartphone plan is more regional as far as gateway location. That and when troubleshooting that issue with T-Mo, the rep explained the reason for the separation of traffic.

    Either way, a flip/basic/free phone is not going to render "full versions" of web sites, so on a "page-per-page" basis, it will not use as much data (e.g. www.engaget.com). This is the basis of AT&T's rate justification.
     
  17. Snow_Fox

    Snow_Fox Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    I have never heard of that before.

    This raises the question how would a third party dumb phone access att's data vs a third party smart phone..

    And to be honst.. I still don't think it quite justifies at&t's excuses.. Honestly at&t is unjustifiable in part because they have continually lied so much about the whole ordeal.

    I have heard everything from

    "there were too many complaints about customer overages"

    Ok fine warn your custoers.. don't punish me :/


    "the smart phone is so expensive they HAVE to charge you the data package to make up for lost cash"

    Then maybe at&t should quit spending so much time/energy/money subsidizing the crap out of every single phone...

    Also it fails to cover what about when customers buy their own phone at full price..


    "they use more bandwidth!"

    Well.. we are discussing this one now.. honestly.. they advertise "3g speed" on all smart and dumb phones.. There is no industry definition of "smart phone".

    Also against the more bandwidth point.. smartphones are the ONLY phones with wifi... to get that wifi package.. you HAVE to get a 30$ a month data package.. which is so annoying "here is wifi, don't use our network you are paying 30$ a month for!"

    I wonder if they will charge 60$ a month once the new iphone comes out and it steals the "super phone" title from google's n1.
     
  18. colnago

    colnago Well-Known Member

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    With the same APN settings, minus a proxy server setting.

    Bottom line is that a smartphone will render websites more fully than a dumb/flip phone, as it is more data intensive...there is no way around that. AT&T is going to charge $30, and frequency of use is irrelevant. Think of it this way, would you rather pay $30 for internet if your phone could not render websites fully?

    If you are in an AT&T coverage area, and WiFi is not available, you're paying $30 for that convenience. There are times where WiFi may be "nearby", but you may not be able to, nor want to connect (streaming TV while at work, riding in a car, outside, etc).

    If the issue bothers you that much, you may be better off on T-Mo, order a "Stand Alone SIM card", for a "minutes only, no contract plan"...and don't order a data plan. If you need data, add their $10/mo plan. However if they feel you have a "smartphone", even if it is unlocked/non-subsidised, they "may" require that you upgrade...though there are people that only pay $10, despite having full blown "smartphones".
     
  19. Hrethgir

    Hrethgir Well-Known Member

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    Last month, here is the data usage between my iPhone 3Gs and my wifes LG CU400 flip phone:

    iPhone- 171,602 KB
    CU400- 0 KB

    So in our case, my smart phone is using a bit more data than her dumb phone.
     
  20. Snow_Fox

    Snow_Fox Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    Colnago, I live not even 5 minutes on a bike away from campus, wifi is available EVERYWHERE and in my apartment.

    Seeing as I do not pay the bill at the moment, I am not about to switch. I can not afford to being in college.

    I don't see why you are so dead set against me finding out how much data is actually used from phone to phone :/.

    As time goes on we are going to see "dumb phones" use more and more data as it is.. and to be honest, it bothers me alot the way companies can all jump on a band wagon and not bother to compete..

    It is annoying that major cell phone providers all hoped on the same band wagon and the only choice is to go to lesser known providers..

    Edit* and while I could still use the 3g plan... the majority of my use would be at home/school...

    I understand what your saying about the proxy issue.. but, if I'm using less than 100 mb of data a month on atts 3g network.. and the whole reason smartphones are charged 30$ rather than 10$ is because they use "more data" then that is a bit misleading when a dumbphone can use the same amount of data :/
     
  21. tsanuri

    tsanuri Well-Known Member

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    The reason they all hoped on that band wagon is that it is better PR. Look how often when someone gets a unreal bill how much press it gets and for how long. Within the last 2 weeks I have seen the same one on a Verizon person from MA that got a 18K bill and it is 4 years old. So for phones that could crank up usage as much as a smartphone can they just add the data plan to it and do not have to worry about it near as much.
    And I would say you are the exception to the rule about having wifi avail most of the time. Just look how much the iphone crushed both NY and SF and was still doing so after it went to wifi whenever avail.
     
  22. colnago

    colnago Well-Known Member

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    That's great for you, but that's not everyone's situation. I work from home, but again, that's not the situation for most AT&T customers. AT&T provides a service, and have two pricing tiers. Be glad for that...I don't think that Verizon does. Either way, there is no carrier, that has contract plans, that will charge you their lower rate if you have a smartphone.


    I'm not dead set against you gathering data, I just do not see how it will help you accomplish your goal, whatever that is. Getting "total data usage" figures are not going to be a good counterpoint against AT&T's satement that, "smartphones use more data". Customer's usage patterns are not the issue, its the "per page data counts" that AT&T is basing the claim. AT&T is competing because they offer lower rates for phones which, "do not provide the full internet experience". Again, load www.newegg.com on a flip phone with say a 200x100 resolution screen, then go load it up on a Touch Pro 2. Which site looks more like on a PC? How much data is transmitted for each phone, and which one pulled more data?


    Sure a dumbphone "can" use more data on 3G, but that's dependant on numerous factors, and I'm sure is not the norm. The only real way to test is if someone has both a dumbphone and smartphone, and compare their totals. Most people, if they need to browse, check email, pay bills, etc, will be more prone to use the "smartphone" because its "easier", for more reasons than one.
     
  23. ruger

    ruger Active Member

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    I have an ancient Pearl 8100, it's not even 3G. So there's an argument that it's not really a "smartphone". I pay $30 for the BB service plan.

    In the past year my usage, in megabytes.
    5/10 11.7
    4/10 12.3
    3/10 11.0
    2/10 5.6
    1/10 23.2
    12/09 5.9
    11/09 10.9
    10/09 14.1
    9/09 8.0
    8/09 9.7
    7/09 15.8
    6/09 10.3

    So I paid $360, for a grand total of 138.5 megabytes, and an average of 11.5 a month. Holy shit, that's some expensive data, and I don't even have a decent phone. I think it's time to call see if I can get that fee reduced.
     
  24. colnago

    colnago Well-Known Member

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    Good luck with that. One way to do it may be to cancel the contract, get your unlock code, then rejoin with a "minutes only" plan...then add MediaNet.

    However asking for a lower rate for the data plan is like asking your cable/sat provided for a lower rate, "because you watch less TV than someone else, and on an SDTV".
     
  25. Tasmin

    Tasmin Well-Known Member

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    The required $30 data plan is a pet peeve of mine. I've never had a smart phone, but have wanted one since the first iphone. My old Cingular flip phone is finally about to die, so I thought I'd get an Android phone on my fiance's Sprint plan. I reran the numbers the other day though, and it's just not a smart use of our money (I'm currently a $10 line on my parent's family plan). I wish AT&T (or any carrier for that matter) would unbend on the mandatory data package enough to at least, say, allow us to buy an unsubsidized smart phone and agree to a data block and no data plan. That way they are not out anything and I could still use wifi when I'm at home and work (there are actually a lot more people that fall into this category than you might think - especially students). I understand carriers are businesses, but this is a ridiculous rule.
     

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