HTC Built in Task Manager!

[dan330]

^^^ true.... but..

you have a leak in your 100gallon fish tank.
you stick a piece of gum in it...
it stops leaking..
when the gum falls out.. you stick another piece there.

has the leak stop considerably? yes
with fish be ok? yes
is the problem fixed????? hhhmmm.... i guess that depends on the the owners level of acceptance.

 

[WaSTeLaNd]

^^^ true.... but..

you have a leak in your 100gallon fish tank.
you stick a piece of gum in it...
it stops leaking..
when the gum falls out.. you stick another piece there.

has the leak stop considerably? yes
with fish be ok? yes
is the problem fixed????? hhhmmm.... i guess that depends on the the owners level of acceptance.

Very good formality haha loved it, i can see where I'm wrong in this but to say a task killer dosent save battery at all, then say its a fact, is not true...

 

[dan330]

Leak slows down = saves battery

You did not address the sickness... only its runny nose

 

[WaSTeLaNd]

Leak slows down = saves battery

You did not address the sickness... only its runny nose

Yea, making more and more sense the more I research. Let me ask you, without a task killer how do you tell what's draining

 

[dan330]

get app called "spare parts"

 

[lordofthereef]

not a fact entirely, with out task killer 6-7 battery, with task killer ( with proper use ) 18-24 tested many times how can you deny the numbers?

I can deny the numbers by understanding how android works. Like I said, you may be getting better results somehow, but that doesn't mean there is direct (or any) correlation.

As a possible example: You spend so much time worrying about killing tasks that you don't actually do as much as you would with your phone if you hadnt been worrying about it. Such activity may result in better battery life and seem like it is your task killer helping you out when really you are simply using the phone less. Not saying this is what you did, but this is one way people come to the wrong conclusion.

Another possible example is you are running and loading poorly written apps. Again, this is a problem with the app, and doesn't notate a need to use a task killer.

But honestly, don't take my word on any of this. Read up on devs that know what they are talking about. I don't develop anything, I simply like to read and am regurgitating information.

 

[WaSTeLaNd]

I can deny the numbers by understanding how android works. Like I said, you may be getting better results somehow, but that doesn't mean there is direct (or any) correlation.

As a possible example: You spend so much time worrying about killing tasks that you don't actually do as much as you would with your phone if you hadnt been worrying about it. Such activity may result in better battery life and seem like it is your task killer helping you out when really you are simply using the phone less. Not saying this is what you did, but this is one way people come to the wrong conclusion.

Another possible example is you are running and loading poorly written apps. Again, this is a problem with the app, and doesn't notate a need to use a task killer.

But honestly, don't take my word on any of this. Read up on devs that know what they are talking about. I don't develop anything, I simply like to read and am regurgitating information.

Well i cant deny the numbers i have no reason not too believe that my better battery life was in fact a direct result of a task killer, I have done some research on this and like ive said I haven't used a task killer in a while due too the bad side effects. I am working on looking more into the way Android works on closing tasks, to me letting android take care of things or letting a task killer do it is tomatoes tamatoes Im going to haft to agree to disagree, I do choose not to use a task killer because of the force closes, random phone reboots etc...

 

[jdsingle]

Well i cant deny the numbers i have no reason not too believe that my better battery life was in fact a direct result of a task killer, I have done some research on this and like ive said I haven't used a task killer in a while due too the bad side effects. I am working on looking more into the way Android works on closing tasks, to me letting android take care of things or letting a task killer do it is tomatoes tamatoes Im going to haft to agree to disagree, I do choose not to use a task killer because of the force closes, random phone reboots etc...

I think we can end this discussion on convincing Wasteland. He's doing his research which is great and if he chooses to keep doing it how he is, that is fine as well.

/thread

 

[novox77]

except that all that stuff about task killers was kinda off topic. I'm kinda curious how HTC's task manager is going to work. Aside from easy multitask switching and task killing (maybe), is there any other features? Can we set priority on certain apps? Throttle usage? get historical CPU/battery usage? Uninstall apps?

A task manager has the potential to be very informative (like System Panel). Task killing is probably the least important feature.

 

[WaSTeLaNd]

except that all that stuff about task killers was kinda off topic. I'm kinda curious how HTC's task manager is going to work. Aside from easy multitask switching and task killing (maybe), is there any other features? Can we set priority on certain apps? Throttle usage? get historical CPU/battery usage? Uninstall apps?

A task manager has the potential to be very informative (like System Panel). Task killing is probably the least important feature.

throttle usage, priority would be nice

 

[lordofthereef]

except that all that stuff about task killers was kinda off topic.

For the sake of argument, the OP's second sentence has everything to do with task killers and musing whether or not we will have a built in task killer with the EVO 3d. Simply put, it would be counterproductive for HTC to add one, though the general populous might eat it up as is apparent by all the millions of downloads of various task killers on the market...

 

[novox77]

For the sake of argument, the OP's second sentence has everything to do with task killers and musing whether or not we will have a built in task killer with the EVO 3d. Simply put, it would be counterproductive for HTC to add one, though the general populous might eat it up as is apparent by all the millions of downloads of various task killers on the market...

A task manager SHOULD include the ability to kill a task, since there is a time and place for that. What it should NOT include is the ability to auto-kill tasks. A good task manager will tell you what is causing the battery drain, making it easier for the user to solve battery life issues.

 

[dan330]

there were some apps that you can use to .. set the min and max of the internal memory killer. search the market for it.

i used to use it with android 2.1... but have since stopped after 2.2

 

[Evulution]

A task manager SHOULD include the ability to kill a task, since there is a time and place for that. What it should NOT include is the ability to auto-kill tasks. A good task manager will tell you what is causing the battery drain, making it easier for the user to solve battery life issues.

It ain't rocket science if you download an app and your battery starts to drain then its the last app you downloaded causing your problems. I haven't seen someone download an app then the app causes battery drain a week or two later. If apps are problematic you can tell right after you try and do just simple shit with your phone. A smartphone needs a smart user.

 

[lordofthereef]

It ain't rocket science if you download an app and your battery starts to drain then its the last app you downloaded causing your problems. I haven't seen someone download an app then the app causes battery drain a week or two later. If apps are problematic you can tell right after you try and do just simple shit with your phone. A smartphone needs a smart user.

Thank you sir. You have said what I was trying to say. Personally, I don't care what the app is. If it constantly needing babysitting, I'd rather not have it and let the dev know that there are issues that need addressing.

 

[novox77]

It ain't rocket science if you download an app and your battery starts to drain then its the last app you downloaded causing your problems. I haven't seen someone download an app then the app causes battery drain a week or two later. If apps are problematic you can tell right after you try and do just simple shit with your phone. A smartphone needs a smart user.

That's a pretty gross oversimplication of a lot of what users encounter. Sometimes, it's a particular configuration of an app that causes battery drain. The solution then isn't to just uninstall the app, but see if it can be configured in a more friendly way. And it may not be obvious even to a 'smart' smartphone user when they made a particular setting change to one of the many apps on their phone.

For example: Task Manager shows that the app "Mail" is constantly using 30% CPU. Are you going to uninstall Mail? Likely not. You'd then go into settings and see what might be causing an issue. Is it not syncing properly? is it syncing too much? Is there a corrupt setting due to bad cached data? etc.

And since most people (you included) seem to think that the culprit is typically a newly installed app, without feedback from a task manager, at what point would you even realize to check the Mail app, which is such a fundamental app that no one would consider deleting/uninstalling?

Anyhow, that was just an example (something I encountered once). And since I rarely download apps, most battery drain issues I've experienced were a lot more subtle than just "last downloaded app must be the culprit." And remember, people complain about battery life right out the box before they even install anything.

 

[lordofthereef]

That's a pretty gross oversimplication of a lot of what users encounter. Sometimes, it's a particular configuration of an app that causes battery drain. The solution then isn't to just uninstall the app, but see if it can be configured in a more friendly way. And it may not be obvious even to a 'smart' smartphone user when they made a particular setting change to one of the many apps on their phone.

I disagree. The vast majority of smartphone users aren't the types of people that configure and tweak. Apps should be user freindly and not battery hogs out of the box, or in this case, out of the marketplace. Just my opinion though.

FWIW I make the same argument to people that say "EVO has great battery, it just needs to be configured right". Perhaps, but the average consumer doesn't root, doesn't rom, and doesn't configure. Thus, out of the box, it is far from optimized the way it should be to receive a good public image.

In short, it's easy for you are me to to configure apps and roms to our hearts content. I don't think this should be EXPECTED of us though.

 

[novox77]

Right, but if the Evo had bad battery life right out of the box, the user hasn't even installed a "rogue" battery-draining app. My response was directly toward Evulution's post that basically said there's a universal solution to battery woes: uninstall your last app.

So there IS value to a program like a task manager to alert users that these are a list of your highest battery-usage apps. That goes a LONG way toward helping people troubleshoot battery issues. Whether or not they have the brains to resolve those issues is a separate matter.

And I for one hate having to make excuses for the dumb people out there. "well the average user isn't going to know how to do ___." Tough shit. Sometimes life is complicated. Science is complicated. No way to dumb it down. That's why I love Android and hate Apple. I don't want my device to assume I'm an idiot right out of the box.

If you (not you specifically) want a device that does the job and is configured to conserve battery right out of the box, I'll refer you to the nearest Apple store. If you want the power of an Android, be ready to use your brain and accept that with great power comes great battery drain. If something as simple as a Task Manager is intimidating, clearly Android is the wrong choice.

 

[lordofthereef]

And I for one hate having to make excuses for the dumb people out there. "well the average user isn't going to know how to do ___." Tough shit. Sometimes life is complicated. Science is complicated. No way to dumb it down. That's why I love Android and hate Apple. I don't want my device to assume I'm an idiot right out of the box.

This is likely why your product isn't being sold on market shelves for ease of use.

In all seriousness, to an extent I agree with you. Still, HTC is a business. They want to make a product that appeals to idiots and intellectuals alike. That is how you make the most money. It makes little Sense to sell a product that the general populous hates aspects of and only those people well versed enough can get it to work right. Can you imagine buying a car and having to tweak it so it gets you to and from work every day without it being tempermental? That company would quickly go out of business.

 

[novox77]

Agreed. HTC does care about the user experience. That's why they invest so much R&D on Sense. The phone just comes with all features on and blazing, just like a TV that comes at full brightness/contrast/saturation to wow you. It's up to the consumer to realize that that might not be the most ideal setting to operate the device all the time.

I think the task manager is just another Sense tool to help those who might not be able to identify their areas of battery drain. Android just puts performance and flexibility above battery life. Maybe that's a fundamental flaw when targeting "average" users, but Android's doing fine so far. And HTC is giving us a bigger battery this time. They are listening.

 

[Evulution]

That's a pretty gross oversimplication of a lot of what users encounter. Sometimes, it's a particular configuration of an app that causes battery drain. The solution then isn't to just uninstall the app, but see if it can be configured in a more friendly way. And it may not be obvious even to a 'smart' smartphone user when they made a particular setting change to one of the many apps on their phone.

For example: Task Manager shows that the app "Mail" is constantly using 30% CPU. Are you going to uninstall Mail? Likely not. You'd then go into settings and see what might be causing an issue. Is it not syncing properly? is it syncing too much? Is there a corrupt setting due to bad cached data? etc.

And since most people (you included) seem to think that the culprit is typically a newly installed app, without feedback from a task manager, at what point would you even realize to check the Mail app, which is such a fundamental app that no one would consider deleting/uninstalling?

Anyhow, that was just an example (something I encountered once). And since I rarely download apps, most battery drain issues I've experienced were a lot more subtle than just "last downloaded app must be the culprit." And remember, people complain about battery life right out the box before they even install anything.

You are throwing out of context what I am saying. Haven't had a single person complain about the battery after tweaking their phone out of the box.

If a person has their phone setup perfectly and then they download an app of which the apps starts to affect battery drainage. I'm sorry it ain't the other apps causing the problem because apps don't adjust their settings on their own.

I have seen apps cause lag and just general problems with Android. The app I have seen suck the battery life out of a phone is the Blockbuster app. People/the user cause the problems with their phones. Don't need a task manager to tell you what is utilizing CPU. If your battery is draining an app is sending/receiving data in the background and you need to adjust your settings for the app. If you can't adjust the settings for the app then it needs to be uninstalled. But this is logical to me. And if you phone starts acting funny like lagging when it wasn't before. Its the last app you downloaded. Take the app away and the lag goes away. Simple shit....

 

[RiverOfIce]

you need to find out which one.. and uninstall it!

good apps in the background.. are sleeping and use NOTHING! android will delete if it needs the space.

Two very small problems with that whole thing.

1.) Apps like amazon mp3, block buster, qik, and kindle even when you never use them run in the back ground. They can gather marketing information, like websites visited, contact information, and gps. They then can actively send it back to amazon. It is installed by default and killing it with the built in task killer will not stop it from rerunning. ATK will kill it every hour. But if you don't kill it, it is collecting marking and advertisement information from you and giving it to 3rd parties. Having them run in the background caused my 24 battery life to go to 4 hours.

2.) You have to void your warrenty to op out of this data collection. Because the only way to stop the appication is to root your phone. If you have rooted your phone then the build in app killer is kind of pointless, because android is really good an resources.


Which leaves most people in a bind, they want to stop the programs that are misbehaving but can not root their phone.

I only kill the above mentioned apps using atk. My battery can usually make it 18-20 hours. If I remove ATK, my battery will not make 4 hours.

Please explain how, if I only kill those selected app, does my battery life increase soo much? And please explain to me how I can not void my warranty and yet kill these apps?

For people that have rooted their phones, your advice is good and solid for those that can, ie have a business phone that prevents you from rooting. You need to use something to aggressive to stop those apps.

 

[RiverOfIce]

What it should NOT include is the ability to auto-kill tasks.

Why? Sometimes you know what the problem is, but you cant do anything about it, with out voiding your warranty. Why should you not auto kill your problem.

 

[jdsingle]

2.) You have to void your warrenty to op out of this data collection. Because the only way to stop the appication is to root your phone. If you have rooted your phone then the build in app killer is kind of pointless, because android is really good an resources.


Which leaves most people in a bind, they want to stop the programs that are misbehaving but can not root their phone.

I only kill the above mentioned apps using atk. My battery can usually make it 18-20 hours. If I remove ATK, my battery will not make 4 hours.

Please explain how, if I only kill those selected app, does my battery life increase soo much? And please explain to me how I can not void my warranty and yet kill these apps?

For people that have rooted their phones, your advice is good and solid for those that can, ie have a business phone that prevents you from rooting. You need to use something to aggressive to stop those apps.

I'm sorry but I really hate this argument about rooting your phone and voiding your warranty. Would I ever turn my phone in if I bricked it by rooting? How many people actually brick their phone by rooting? If so, you're not very intelligent. Plain and simple. I've rooted at least 20+ devices with no issues. No. I've had to put phones in under warranty that are rooted but had defects with the hardware.

There are TONS of threads for each phone that tell you how to get back to stock. Don't be a douche and turn your phone in if you messed it up. If it is manufacturer defect than that is another issue altogether.

 

[lordofthereef]

Why? Sometimes you know what the problem is, but you cant do anything about it, with out voiding your warranty. Why should you not auto kill your problem.

This is just a guess, but if they ling built in I highly doubt they are going to allow it to kill the tasks that are preinstalled with the phone. If we cannot delete these apps (as you mentioned above) I don't see HTC allowing us to autokill them with their own software. I could be wrong though.