HTC saying 30fps cap unbreakable?


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  1. Headcase_Fargone

    Headcase_Fargone Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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  2. RichboyJhae

    RichboyJhae Well-Known Member

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    I don't care about the 30fps cap on video output. I'm more concerned with the phones display being capped. It limits the touch sensitiveness and smoothness which I find very attractive.
     
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  3. VGPOP

    VGPOP Well-Known Member

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    How could they possibly say this when this was already accomplished?

    Who are their programmers?
     
  4. DarkNeo

    DarkNeo Well-Known Member

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    Meh, doesnt really bug me.
     
  5. MelonSplitter

    MelonSplitter Well-Known Member

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    How come just last week HTC annonced that they were working on a fix for this. WTH. What does this mean.
     
  6. MrX8503

    MrX8503 Well-Known Member

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    I think they're saying this because the fix isn't possible OTA. So I think it's easier for them to say it's not possible.
     
  7. tmaxey1

    tmaxey1 Well-Known Member

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    EarlyMon likes this.
  8. kellte2

    kellte2 Well-Known Member

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    This seems like OLD news to me. It has been posted on the xda boards only a few days ago that HTC claimed it was being looked into.
     
  9. RiverOfIce

    RiverOfIce Banned

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    Two things.

    First, everything is over clock able. You can over clock the video card on anything, just the chances of failure goes up.

    HTC may have done some tests, failure rate of the video chip was too high and said nope, not going to deal with a ton of phone coming back on something that is not broken.

    Second thing, most of the improvements have nothing to do with increasing past 30 fps, but making better use of the 30fps and increase the sensitivity of the input controller.
     
  10. The Lorax

    The Lorax Active Member

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    all i care about is a BETTER RESPONSIVE SCREEN. i hate the freakin touch lag. i feel jipped. im 75% sure that this is tied to the 30fps cap. somebody please correct me if im wrong. i dont want false hopes of a more responsive screen.
     
  11. RiverOfIce

    RiverOfIce Banned

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    Think about it for just a min. (with java, all ui are going to be a little laggy, nature of the beast.)

    At 30 frames per second. If you move your input 4 inches, each frame would have a lag on 3/25th of an inch for 1/30th of a second.

    So in one second of movement across 4 inches, at most what you will see is blur.

    But do the math yourself. The problem is in the touch control and how fast it refreshes the display, not the frames the display is running at.

    Just like your mouse. If you go to setting on your pc and turn down the input controller, your mouse slows down.
     
  12. RoboMonkey

    RoboMonkey Well-Known Member

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    Guys and gals make sure you read the entire thing.
    Its saying more than 30fps is not possible via the hdmi out not on the device.


    All TV's are 24fps video AFAIK.
     
  13. MrX8503

    MrX8503 Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry dude, but I'm gonna call you out. You simply do not know what you're talking about. You're coming up with a cause and effect that simply doesn't have any correlation with each other. You made all of that up, especially the first post. You weren't in HTC's labs.

    There are tons of videos and posts over at XDA that addresses the 30fps cap and the responsiveness issues. A lot of the evidence that these two problems are some how related. Meaning they both can be fixed.


    They are dropping the fix because people are probably saying this.....

    In which case you get this...



    Yup thats right, the Hero performs better with scrolling/transition animations. A phone that only has a 500mhz processor. People who say they don't "notice" it are either blind or haven't used a phone that doesn't have the cap.
     
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  14. RoboMonkey

    RoboMonkey Well-Known Member

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    I'm going to go out on a limb and say HTC has probably made their #'s on the EVO. So they're probably going to put all their time into the EVO 2!

    I'd rather them do that than work on a 30fps HDMI out non issue.
    I'd like to see a poll of how many purchased the EVO specifically for gaming.

    I know I didn't. I think Android needs a few more years to cook before it's even ready to replace my psp.
     
  15. sagedil

    sagedil Well-Known Member

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    As usual, agree completely.
     
  16. seigex

    seigex Well-Known Member

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    Sorry bro, but wrong.

    It was necessary to put the cap on to allow for HDMI support... not just for HDMI
     
  17. DarkNeo

    DarkNeo Well-Known Member

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    I rather have them pump out Froyo faster than waste time on this 30fps fix.
     
  18. RiverOfIce

    RiverOfIce Banned

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    You can believe what ever you want. But responsiveness, is how fast the phone deals with input, that would be the refresh rate of the screen.

    Frames per second would be how be distance/time. To have lag, you have to have motion.

    If the refresh rate was 1 per second, then every second the screen would report 1 input per second, which would be displayed at 30fps. It would talke 1/30th of a second to display that 1 input. IF the refresh rate where 85, then every second the screen updates itself 85 times. If there was 85 inputs in the second, then only 30 of them would be draw, the rest would be dropped, the dropped frames would be displayed as blur, not lag. Because it is about 20 frames per second that the human eye can make out individual frames.

    Frames per second just tell how many frames per distance. They are related to each other in the fact that the fps has to wait for the refresh rate to tell it what to draw, where java always has some lagginess to it. But it ends there.

    After the input control refreshes the screen it sends a signal to the video card to tell it to create the frame need to update the input.

    If the input is sent to low, the refresh rate is set too low. If that happens, then user will notice the screen is going really slow or lag.

    If the input refresh rate is increased, then it falls to fps second to keep up which will always be 3/25th of the inch behind for 1/30th of a second.

    But to get the lag we see with the evo, the refresh rate or fps would have to drop to less then 10 fps, which is not what we are talking about.

    You are the one that is taking a correlation for causation.

    You are saying that the evo is capped at 30fps, so everything that is laggy about the htc evo has to be related to the cap.

    And it is not.
     
  19. acp

    acp Well-Known Member

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    Why did that video play within the browser on my Evo? That never happens...all I saw was how beautiful and big the screen on the Evo looks compared to the little Hero screen. Thank you for reminding me why I don't miss my hero.
     
  20. NSXLA

    NSXLA Well-Known Member

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    Even though most movies and tv shows are shot at 24 FPS!!!
    That doesn't mean they are showing at 24 FPS! you can't watch a movie or tv show at 24 FPS it will be flickery! horrible! Movies are show on your tv at 2 or 3 time the 24 fps 60hertz or 60 FPS.
     
  21. malibu23

    malibu23 Well-Known Member

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    check the specs of any movie file on ur pc. the frame rate is always under 30.
     
  22. EarlyMon

    EarlyMon The PearlyMon Moderator

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    And most especially for:

    Kindly notice -

    Posted in Evo screen pixel density, specifically a short primer in FPS by Yours Truly

    Also note that the following links right after reading that:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecine

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flicker_fusion_threshold

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flicker_fusion_frequency

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movie_projector

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD-Video

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ntsc

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_standards_conversion#Telecine_judder

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATSC_(standards)

    Those links may be helpful to understanding.

    Blu-ray happily outputs 24 fps at 1080p and relies on TVs' flicker mechanisms for smooth motion.

    DVDs are subject to pulldown processing that can only ATTEMPT to properly reconstruct 24 or 30 fps material out of the 60 field/second (60 Hz) source subject to telecine processing. The DVD release of Four Rooms is at 30 fps as one example. It may exist on someone's PC.

    60 fps is alive and well, part of the ATSC standard and very popular for 720p sports broadcasts.
     
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  23. newone757

    newone757 Well-Known Member

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    i wouldnt read too much into this. what is their source?? prolly an email from some random HTC rep, that was tired of being bothered by somebody.

    Doesnt really matter to me, im overclocked and uncapped running smooth as silk. And even smoother when i did it on froyo (almost TOO smooth, its unbelievable), cant wait for that
     
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  24. MrX8503

    MrX8503 Well-Known Member

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    RiverOfIce I think you're really confused on how frames work and how our eyes see them. I do enough flash and after effects animation to know what I'm talking about when it comes to lag.

    I don't really care to even spend the time to go into detail to explain it. There's no reason for argument just look at the video, the proof is there. It's up to you if it bothers you, but trying to convince yourself and others that the problem doesn't exist is blindness.
     
  25. eieio

    eieio Well-Known Member

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    Actually both devices show signs of lag in that video..
     
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