HTC, time to update past 1.5 on the Hero

[droid51378]

I like the phone the way it is, but when the apps outgrow the hardware is when I am not happy. For instance, I want Google Goggles. Oh sorry, 1.6 and above.

 

[romeosidvicious]

I like the phone the way it is, but when the apps outgrow the hardware is when I am not happy. For instance, I want Google Goggles. Oh sorry, 1.6 and above.

Well the apps haven't outgrown the hardware we just don't have an update to a supported version yet. Every rev Android has gotten faster on the same hardware. Some new features come in and a lot of code optimizing is done. My biggest worry is that SenseUI will kill some of the performance enhancements we might otherwise see. But if we had 1.6 we could run Goggles without any issues.

 

[osli]

It's the same fragmenting as exists in the WinMo market.

With the same disadvantages for consumers. Did you have a point here or were you just reinforcing mine?

RIM (Blackberry) is still the market leader, followed by WinMo, then the iPhone.

Depends on how you define "market" I suppose. When referring to this incarnation of the "smartphone" consisting of capacitive touch and intuitive UI aimed at the mass market, not business and power users, I find your list questionable.

So if you are refering to the iPhone your point is rubbish in my opinion. Just look at how many revs it took them to get cut and paste, a standard smartphone feature.

My point is that they released updates. Period. You in this very thread took the stance that we bought phones as a piece of "as-is" hardware and should have been happy with its functionality at the moment of purchase, simply because a contract cannot make such future promises, and therefore should not expect future updates. That is what I responded to. But thanks for reinforcing my point once again... not only has Apple made updates an expected part of the smartphone experience, so has RIM and Windows devices. None of these make contractual promises, but it is what the consumer expects. Read, don't assume.

I assume iPhone was your incorrect reference to "leader in smartphone" and they don't update the base OS frequently and certainly haven't in the same time frame people are crying for a new OS rev on the Hero. So your point is invalid from start to finish.

It would help if you read my post and used my point in your discussion, instead of lashing out against some perceived demand I have made. Either that, or stop quoting me when you are addressing other posters. So Apple was slow. And? They took a great product and made it better. I expect HTC and others to do the same. No more, no less. No timeframe demands.

Most all of the Android phone in existence run 1.5 at this point. You are in full compatibility with the Android community at large.

Explain why you have redefined "full" to mean "most all"? I find mention of promising apps and widgets on theses forums nearly every day that my Hero can't run. I'm not going to sue over this, but part of the "Android OS" pitch is that there is a community of manufacturers, developers, and users with lines between them blurred using this platform, and therefore all working together to improve the platform. If my option to improve my Android phone is limited to purchasing another, I think that marketing pitch is misleading and full of BS at best.

HTC/Sprint could release bug fixes and security updates only until the phone was EOL'd and be perfectly within any reasonable expectation.

If HTC fixed all the bugs in my phone, then I'd certainly take my hat off to them. That's a formidable task, considering the mountain of work ahead of them. But you're sidestepping the obvious... leveraging the work of Google in updating the OS is a no-brainer in the quest to fix bugs and patch security holes. And your idea of "reasonable" is just, shall we say, bizarre.

but, again and a point you haven't refuted, we weren't promised an upgrade path.

No, but to expect one none-the-less is certainly reasonable. It is based on the concensus of market trends over the past few years, and to argue the contrary is just arguing for the sake of arguing.

We all bought a phone with last years hardware, no promises of OS upgrades, and yet some of us are whining about a lack of OS update in three months?

I'm mostly whining about the issues I have with the out-of-the-box product, and fully expect those to be addressed. But if moving to 2.0+ is the most promising way to fix those issues, why not expect HTC to take advantage of that, and why not hope for that sooner rather than later?

In case you missed it that's the point I am making. I never said we shouldn't want an upgrade

And I never said I thought I was promised one in a contract. I don't think anyone here made such an argument, so I'm not sure what sent you on that tangent. People here do expect an upgrade, both to fix current issues and to make available the benefits of being on the Android platform that is so touted here, elsewhere on the net, and even in product marketing.

There's a gradient from hope, to expect, to entitled, to contractually promised, and you seem to think there is no room for anything within the extremes.

Thanks for playing.

If playing with and beating up on strawmen makes you happy, more power to you.

 

[JonnieDearest]

HTC (htc) on Twitter



Here's a little peep of something & nothing

 

[BrianDigital]

I an all honesty we all bought the Hero from Sprint without even a tentative date for an upgrade. Hell there wasn't even the promise of an upgrade. I would prefer to wait longer and have HTC/Sprint get it right rather than see the same sorts of issue we saw with the 1.5 image prior to the update. Software development isn't like taking a dump. HTC can't just demand their devs crap out a perfect 1.6/2.0/2.1 image and with the issues on the original image my guess is that they are taking their time and getting it right.

The problem is that folks seem to think they are entitled to a new version of the OS when they frankly are not. We all bought a Sprint Hero with 1.5 and no promise of an upgrade to anything. No promise of 1.6. No promise of 2.0. No promise of 2.1. To continue the computer analogy this thread is like someone buying a Dell computer that ships with Vista and whining that Dell isn't giving them Vista. We didn't buy an Android 2.0 phone and while we know the GSM version is getting the update we don't know if we are and frankly we aren't owed any damn thing from HTC or Sprint aside from security and bug fixes for the version our phone came with.

It makes me sick to see people who think they entitled to something that's not included in their contract, was never promised by either Sprint or the device manufacture, and then want to whine about their feelings of entitlement in public. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

Well considering the amount of money we all spend on these phones in two years, yeah I do feel some entitlement. On a side note why are you here, you must be entirely new to smartphone communities

 

[troyboytn]

Well considering the amount of money we all spend on these phones in two years, yeah I do feel some entitlement. On a side note why are you here, you must be entirely new to smartphone communities

Amen to that.....and I am also entitled! Thank you very much.

 

[dcdttu]

The problem with that is that only the semi-geeks are going to bail on sprint.

Therein lies the difference between Android and the iPhone's OSX. Every update received for the iPhone is announced world-wide and updated by all, regardless of which device they have. It's fun and exciting to receive new features and updates. Not so for Android. It's phone specific and has massive delays caused by Google, handset manufacturers and carriers. Not as exciting at all.

And excitement is what it's all about. If you want someone to keep buying a brand of phone (or Android), you make sure they are excited for at least 2 years, right?

 

[mysticmead]

that's because there is only one manufacturer for iPhone..and only one carrier (at this time).. if there were unlimited manufacturers and all carriers had them, then you wouldn't get the updates out to everyone at the same time and some wouldn't even get updates.

 

[romeosidvicious]

Well considering the amount of money we all spend on these phones in two years, yeah I do feel some entitlement. On a side note why are you here, you must be entirely new to smartphone communities

I am not even close to new to the smartphone community but thanks anyway. You can feel entitled all day long but the fact, and it's irrefutable, it that you are not. While it's good business to give us an update, while we all want the update, and while I hope it comes sooner rather than later we are not owed the update. You can feel like you are all day long and it doesn't change the very basic fact that you are not owed anything beyond bug fixes for the version of the OS you got with your phone. You see this is about reality for me and everyone seems to be missing that. I want the update as much as anyone else. I would love to be on 2.x tomorrow. But I know that the hard fact is Sprint and HTC don't owe me that update I want so bad. They are not obliged to give it to me. They could charge me for it if they wanted to. They could leave the Hero at 1.5 if they wanted to. Not giving us an update would be a horrible business decision and generate lots of animosity for both companies but by the same token they don't owe it us. There is no legal entitlement, there is no agreement between any of us and either of them that we will get it. You can feel entitled all day long but you are wrong. You are not entitled to an update. You can want it with all your heart and soul but that doesn't make you entitled to it.

People need to realize that just because they feel entitled it doesn't actually make them entitled. No matter what you feel and no matter how bad you want it you cannot force either company involved to provide you with an upgrade. Words mean things and entitle(d), in this context, means: to furnish with proper grounds for seeking or claiming something and while you can feel that you should get an update based on how much you spent on this phone the fact is that's not proper grounds for seeking or claiming anything. It is, in fact, only your opinion.

I am guessing most of the people talking about being owed an update, or being entitled to one, are younger folks. I see this all the time in the younger generations. A feeling like they are owed something when there is not a legal or moral basis for the feeling. Since this topic has moved to feelings "I do feel some entitlement..." I am done with this topic. You can't argue logic against feelings because feelings don't need or have origins in logic. I had hoped to explain what reasonable expectations were in a case like this and have apparently failed to do so. Enjoy thinking you are owed an update for your device because that thought has no basis in the reality of the situation.

 

[romeosidvicious]

Therein lies the difference between Android and the iPhone's OSX. Every update received for the iPhone is announced world-wide and updated by all, regardless of which device they have. It's fun and exciting to receive new features and updates. Not so for Android. It's phone specific and has massive delays caused by Google, handset manufacturers and carriers. Not as exciting at all.

And excitement is what it's all about. If you want someone to keep buying a brand of phone (or Android), you make sure they are excited for at least 2 years, right?

No. You make sure it works right out of the box which this didn't and we got an update for it. And if you are geeky enough to be excited about phone updates (guilty as charged) then you won't be staying with the same phone for two years. I know I sure as hell haven't. Don't make updates the exciting part of having a phone. Make the whole experience exciting and if you are stable then don't update anything at all. Updates may be cool for iPhone folks but updates means something was wrong to begin with. The goal should be not to have problems you have to fix. Adding features can actually be done in Android without updating the base OS thanks to being Linux based so if HTC/Sprint produced a highly stable 2.x update I would hope they wouldn't update it for a long time. That's something people seem to be missing about this. Our Heroes are not iPhones. They don't have to have updates to the OS pushed out by Sprint or HTC to get new features. It's a completely different game than the iPhone.

 

[osli]

Not exactly sure what you mean by base os and completely different. IPhone os is darwin based, a hybrid kernel based largely on Unix. Android is very similar in that regard. Apple can make bug fixes and feature updates to any one of the four abstraction layers In the iPhone os. They don't have to always update the 'base os', they may also update the core services, media layer, or springboard. Android is similar In this regard as well. Features can also be added through apps, again similar between the two platforms.

The difference is that apple controls updates to all four layers, while the android community has access to at least the most superficial layer... sense/home, analogous to springboard/cocoa touch on apple. But the vast majority of bugs are found in the more core layers, which require updates from the manufacturer in both cases.

Completely different? I just dont see how. Your whole point is that we arent legally promised feature updates. Fine. I just want the bugs fixed, which will require an os update anyway. Happy?

 

[dcdttu]

No. You make sure it works right out of the box which this didn't and we got an update for it. And if you are geeky enough to be excited about phone updates (guilty as charged) then you won't be staying with the same phone for two years. I know I sure as hell haven't. Don't make updates the exciting part of having a phone. Make the whole experience exciting and if you are stable then don't update anything at all. Updates may be cool for iPhone folks but updates means something was wrong to begin with. The goal should be not to have problems you have to fix. Adding features can actually be done in Android without updating the base OS thanks to being Linux based so if HTC/Sprint produced a highly stable 2.x update I would hope they wouldn't update it for a long time. That's something people seem to be missing about this. Our Heroes are not iPhones. They don't have to have updates to the OS pushed out by Sprint or HTC to get new features. It's a completely different game than the iPhone.

Are you saying we should all expect and only buy smartphones with no issues at launch??? (stifles laughter) But seriously, that's never going to happen again. Ever. I had to update my freaking Blu-Ray player to profile 2.0 and shove a memory stick in the back of it, for crying out loud... Electronics are getting so feature-laiden that they simply don't have time to release a product to market that's 'perfect.' If they waited until it was 'perfect,' the product would be 3 years out-dated at launch.

We live in a Beta generation

And I really don't understand what you mean about our phones not needing to have updates to get new features... Android 2.0 added a slew of features that are not available on 1.5 in addition to all of their new Android Market apps requiring 1.6 and above. What you said makes no sense...

I think that, rather than do as you do and expect phones to be perfect and have all the features I'd ever want from day one, I'll stick with reality and wait for 2.0 to come out on my Hero. Maybe you should buy a non-smartphone. That's really what you are describing...

 

[pulsarman]

sure enough if you brought a pc with vista you could not complain that windows 7 just come out and you aint got it BUT the difference is you can purchase it and install it on your pc bringing it BACK UP TO DATE! I had accidently wiped off google maps because gps was not working and now its not on the market for me to re install. Now tell me thats not a problem havin android 1.5 and its lack of apps!

 

[romeosidvicious]

Are you saying we should all expect and only buy smartphones with no issues at launch??? (stifles laughter) But seriously, that's never going to happen again. Ever. I had to update my freaking Blu-Ray player to profile 2.0 and shove a memory stick in the back of it, for crying out loud... Electronics are getting so feature-laiden that they simply don't have time to release a product to market that's 'perfect.' If they waited until it was 'perfect,' the product would be 3 years out-dated at launch.

I didn't say we shoudl expect perfection at launch. I didn't even say we shouldn't expect updates. I said we are not entitled to or owed updates to a different version of the OS. I never said we shouldn't want or expect those things. My whole complaint is the attitude of being owed a newer version of the OS. If we are owed anything it is to have the bugs in the current version fixed. Whether they do that and stay at 1.5 or release a 2.x update is up to the companies involved. My issue has never been with wanting a 2.x update, I sure want it myself, but with the idea that anyone is owed anything more than the bugs fixed in the current version.

We live in a Beta generation

And I really don't understand what you mean about our phones not needing to have updates to get new features... Android 2.0 added a slew of features that are not available on 1.5 in addition to all of their new Android Market apps requiring 1.6 and above. What you said makes no sense...

Yes 2.0 added features. Those same features could have added to a rev of 1.5. This is proven by the fact we have 1.5 CDMA phones. HTC added the CDMA feature to 1.5. My point was that from a technical perspective an OS upgrade isn't needed not that we don't need 2.0 to have the same features. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that. It is possible, from a technical perspective, to add whatever is needed without up-reving the kernel even. I did not mean to imply we didn't need 2.0. Google chose to uprev their OS and to get the features it has we need that revision. Did I make sense that time?

I think that, rather than do as you do and expect phones to be perfect and have all the features I'd ever want from day one, I'll stick with reality and wait for 2.0 to come out on my Hero. Maybe you should buy a non-smartphone. That's really what you are describing...

I don't expect phones to be perfect, or any OS for that matter, I want the update to not be as bug ridden as the initial release. 1.5 had been out for a long time compared to 2.0 and HTC still screwed it up pretty big time. I want them to take time and properly test before they release a 2.x update for the Hero. A good part of my job is software development so I do know what I am talking about. Admittedly it's not phone software development but the principles still apply. The glaring 100% wake time issue should have never slipped past quality control. I would rather wait a little longer and not have something that blows my, now stable, phone apart then get a release next week that has huge bugs in it. You missed my point which was they need to get this release right and not worry about rushing it out the door. A brand new version of the OS less than 90 days after launch is not a reasonable expectation.

 

[romeosidvicious]

sure enough if you brought a pc with vista you could not complain that windows 7 just come out and you aint got it BUT the difference is you can purchase it and install it on your pc bringing it BACK UP TO DATE! I had accidently wiped off google maps because gps was not working and now its not on the market for me to re install. Now tell me thats not a problem havin android 1.5 and its lack of apps!

It's not a problem with 1.5 it's a problem with the Marketplace to be honest. They could maintain a version for 1.5 but they don't. This would be Google's choice and not a problem with the OS. It's been less than 3 months since this phone came out. It's been less than two since 2.0 came out and even less since 2.1 came out. At this point it's mostly an HTC problem since they did the whole SenseUI thing. If you want quicker updates then get a non-HTC device that supports standard Android. The OS version you want isn't out for your phone yet. I am sure it will be and I am looking forward to it but the idea that we are owed this update is what I am arguing against. No hardware manufacture is compelled to provide you with new versions of the OS. Read all my posts and you'll see I not only want the update but think it would be bad business not to provide it. I simply stand firmly rooted in reality and the knowledge that not I nor anyone else is owed the update.

 

[dcdttu]

I didn't say we shoudl expect perfection at launch. I didn't even say we shouldn't expect updates. I said we are not entitled to or owed updates to a different version of the OS. I never said we shouldn't want or expect those things. My whole complaint is the attitude of being owed a newer version of the OS. If we are owed anything it is to have the bugs in the current version fixed. Whether they do that and stay at 1.5 or release a 2.x update is up to the companies involved. My issue has never been with wanting a 2.x update, I sure want it myself, but with the idea that anyone is owed anything more than the bugs fixed in the current version.

You're right. They don't technically owe us anything. But if they want to remain competitive and get my business and personal recommendation to friends and family, they better!

Yes 2.0 added features. Those same features could have added to a rev of 1.5. This is proven by the fact we have 1.5 CDMA phones. HTC added the CDMA feature to 1.5. My point was that from a technical perspective an OS upgrade isn't needed not that we don't need 2.0 to have the same features. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that. It is possible, from a technical perspective, to add whatever is needed without up-reving the kernel even. I did not mean to imply we didn't need 2.0. Google chose to uprev their OS and to get the features it has we need that revision. Did I make sense that time?

1.5, 2.0... if they add features to 1.5 and practically make it 2.0, but still call it 1.5, does it really matter? Basically 1.6 and 2.0 are added feature-sets to 1.5. Some of this required a kernel change, I'm sure, so that's why they did this as well. That, and Google found better ways to run Andoid, thus updated that as well. I don't care what they call it, a Service Pack or version change. I just like it! I do wish it was like the iPhone, tho. When a new version is out, all phones get it immediately and it's user-controlled.

I don't expect phones to be perfect, or any OS for that matter, I want the update to not be as bug ridden as the initial release. 1.5 had been out for a long time compared to 2.0 and HTC still screwed it up pretty big time. I want them to take time and properly test before they release a 2.x update for the Hero. A good part of my job is software development so I do know what I am talking about. Admittedly it's not phone software development but the principles still apply. The glaring 100% wake time issue should have never slipped past quality control. I would rather wait a little longer and not have something that blows my, now stable, phone apart then get a release next week that has huge bugs in it. You missed my point which was they need to get this release right and not worry about rushing it out the door. A brand new version of the OS less than 90 days after launch is not a reasonable expectation.

I semi agree. Usually, I would agree that a brand new OS 90 days out the door is usually unreasonable, UNLESS, the OS they put on the phone is so old, it's outdated the second it sells. That, in my opinion, is HTC's fault, not ours. It's not like I bought Snow Leopard on Mac and want them to update it tomorrow. It's like all that was available was XP, yet they have 7 out and about on other computers. Granted, I could have bought a Magic or Droid (eventually), but that's not really my point. They have to remain competitive, and are by releasing an update for us. I'm just saying it's time.

 

[Thetaman]

We can all quit debating since the news came out that the Sprint Hero will be getting Eclair early next year!

 

[kennyidaho]

We can all quit debating since the news came out that the Sprint Hero will be getting Eclair early next year!

No we want Flan and better release dates! Lol Just kidding.....

 

[big_z]

Because you act like you are entitled to the latest and greatest, on your timetable, with no effort from you. You want HTC/Sprint to develop a new load for you phone, test it, fix the bugs they catch, and send it to you less than ninety days after the phone was released. Are you insane? Do you have any clue about software development cycles? It is the whining and entitlement that folks should be ashamed of and not wanting the latest and greatest. I promise that annoying Sprint and HTC over twitter, email, forums, et al is not going to speed up the release. And you don't want it to. You want 2.0/1 for your phone and so do I but I think we want a fully tested 2.0/1 load.

As a software developer, thank you. People around here seem to think companies just wave hands and an update appears. Most people have no idea how much manpower goes into requirements analysis, design, actual coding, testing, tracking bugs, fixing bugs, and testing new fixes. Oh yeah, and then there's change management, release management, code documentation and user documentation, To be honest, in my experience, the coding part (which everyone thinks takes the most time) actually takes the least.

 

[Droidone]

I really don't mind the wait. I love the hero as is and maybe I am the few that does. The phone has it's hiccups and so doesn't all the other hot phones in the market. I would rather wait and have them get it right the first time, then to become a beta tester. I would love to get 2.0 or 2.1 but is it gonna kill me to wait a few months.... No

 

[702DROID]

running 2.1 right now on my sprint hero (not fully working but most if it is and seams stable)

 

[dcdttu]

It's not a problem with 1.5 it's a problem with the Marketplace to be honest. They could maintain a version for 1.5 but they don't. This would be Google's choice and not a problem with the OS. It's been less than 3 months since this phone came out. It's been less than two since 2.0 came out and even less since 2.1 came out. At this point it's mostly an HTC problem since they did the whole SenseUI thing. If you want quicker updates then get a non-HTC device that supports standard Android. The OS version you want isn't out for your phone yet. I am sure it will be and I am looking forward to it but the idea that we are owed this update is what I am arguing against. No hardware manufacture is compelled to provide you with new versions of the OS. Read all my posts and you'll see I not only want the update but think it would be bad business not to provide it. I simply stand firmly rooted in reality and the knowledge that not I nor anyone else is owed the update.

Not true, it's a problem with 1.5. You have no idea whether Goggles or the other updates they put out could run on 1.5's kernel, you're just guessing. The fact is, tho, that they won't run on 1.5.

It's not a HTC problem. Haven't you noticed that only the Droid has 2.0? No HTC phone, or Samsung Phone or any other Android developer, including Motorola's other phones, has 2.0. Why on Earth would you say it's an HTC issue? It's obviously just how these things work with Android: an update comes out (sometimes for all, or sometimes just for the Droid, then all later), the handset manufacturers update whatever phones they choose to with it and release it whenever they want, THEN the carriers give their two cents, THEN it gets to the customers, six months to a year after release by Google. Not a great strategy...

And can we finally get over the word 'owed' and move on? Call it what you will, market demand, being owed, a god-given right. I really don't care about semantics here.

 

[dcdttu]

Because you act like you are entitled to the latest and greatest, on your timetable, with no effort from you. You want HTC/Sprint to develop a new load for you phone, test it, fix the bugs they catch, and send it to you less than ninety days after the phone was released. Are you insane? Do you have any clue about software development cycles? It is the whining and entitlement that folks should be ashamed of and not wanting the latest and greatest. I promise that annoying Sprint and HTC over twitter, email, forums, et al is not going to speed up the release. And you don't want it to. You want 2.0/1 for your phone and so do I but I think we want a fully tested 2.0/1 load.

I am actually a business analyst and know all about the dev. life-cycle. That is not my issue. What I really wanted was for the Hero to have a little newer OS when it came out and not be 2 versions old on release date. You can't tell me that HTC, or other manufacturers for that matter, hadn't seen 2.0 before it came out and were working with it? The NexusOne is a HTC phone, so they obviously had 2.0 and 2.1 lying around. What gets me is that Motorola and Verizon apparently had an exclusive on 2.0 for the Droid. That phone was released even before 2.0's code was released by Google. I think it's kinda crappy that Google chose to do something like that with software that's supposed to be free for all. I guess there's an asterisk behind that sentence. Free for all!* (*whenever we decide to release it after our back-door schemes with Motorola)

Oh, and I promise that annoying Sprint and HTC over Twitter and other outlets WILL get us Android 2.0 faster. The mere fact that we have showed them great interest in getting 2.0 on our devices is probably what made them decide to do it in the first place. That's also why Sprint and HTC typically release this information on Twitter and not in a press release.... Make sense?

 

[305Cane]

The mere fact that we have showed them great interest in getting 2.0 on our devices is probably what made them decide to do it in the first place.

I hope you dont obviously believe this. Software development doesnt work on a whim. it works on a roadmap that is done months ,if not years, in advance. the sheer amount of time it takes to give the hero 2.0 is not something that can just be done because people want it to be done. there needs to be an allocation of not only manpower assets, but financial ones and management planning for the port over. The fact that sense UI is involved as well makes it even more difficult.

To truly think people whined enough and made it happen is mind boggling. Software dev doesnt happen overnight.

 

[rank]

Oh, and I promise that annoying Sprint and HTC over Twitter and other outlets WILL get us Android 2.0 faster. The mere fact that we have showed them great interest in getting 2.0 on our devices is probably what made them decide to do it in the first place. That's also why Sprint and HTC typically release this information on Twitter and not in a press release.... Make sense?

I firmly agree with this. HTC/Sprint/Google may make us play their waiting game but the devs at xda are making great progress with modding the 2.1 rom. They're fixing problems everyday so if they release 2.1 before 1/1/2010-6/30/2010 i'll use that until HTC/Sprint releases the official update as long as ill have root access.

All i want is google nav and be able to update/add apps that no longer recognize 1.5... the oldest android version that is on my 2 month old phone. The old G1 and the new Droid both run 2.0, it feels like i'm driving a ferrari with no power windows lol