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ICS: This is why Apple iPhone trumps Android.

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  1. Bob Maxey

    Bob Maxey Well-Known Member

    Greetings Early . . .

    Let me suggest this and please feel free to correct my reasoning.

    There are vast numbers of Android phones on the market. Hundreds arrive every year to replace the hundreds that depart the scene.

    There is only one (OK, we have the 4 and 4S, so perhaps there are two) iPhone(s). Apple might have a smaller market share, but when one company has 34% of the total market, I should think that says something.

    When the iPhone 5 arrives, I am betting the numbers you posted will change and in Apple's favor. Then perhaps some Android phone will arrive that captures the public's attention and Apple will slip.

    Android holds the lead (in my opinion) not because it is better, but because you can get an Android phone for free or almost no cost from hundreds of places. And there are (I am guessing) more than 75 Android Phones currently on the market. They are sold off contract by Boost, VM and Cricket in my grocery store and the 7-11.

    Not so with the iPhone. Well, you can get one no contract which is why I am going to purchase one. I will watch the news about sales of the 4/4s sold through Cricket and VM. I am willing to bet theyt sell fast. You can likely attribute some sales to the public's perception that an iPhone is the best phone.

    I also wonder what would happen if Apple licensed iOS. Would there be as many Android OS phones or would we see dozens of iOS phones offered by other manufacturers?

    I am convinced there would be fewer Android phones and more models running iOS. And if Android was not open source, would there be as many Android phones?

    Again, clarifications are welcome.

  2. simonsimons34

    simonsimons34 Rom & Kernel Developer Developer

    Um well there is one iPhone and a ton of android phones.. if there's a problem on an android phone a dev can fix them. Say you get a bad phone. Find a dev with some free time and find him or her a donation device to work with. After that your phone will now get fixed up to a better glory. And note that armv6 theoretically can run open max libs. Again you need a dev with enough time to do it
  3. Speed Daemon

    Speed Daemon Disabled

    That excuse doesn't hold water.

    It's one thing to sue defensively to protect your bread and butter. It's quite a different thing to sue in a predatory manner to stifle fair market competition, get out of their own contractual obligations and to make money by shaking down small businesses that can't afford to go to court and stay in business.

    I wonder how much of Apple's bottom line has come from litigation and settlements made by companies that couldn't afford to defend themselves from Apple in court.
    PattiCakeUS likes this.
  4. lunatic59

    lunatic59 Moderati ergo sum Moderator

    That is a very dangerous premise. For example, if a particular service is enabled by default on a device and it's impossible to stop without jailbreak or root, you may be correct that the "masses" may not be interested in the nuts and bolts of issue, but they most certainly are interested in why they cannot improve battery life. They probably don't even know (or care, for that matter) how or why something works, they just want it fixed. And really, the discussion isn't about which platform has more issues, but recognizing that they all do. You also can't assume that any Android or iOS user that doesn't post a complaint or has an issue is a satisfied user. Logic and statistics just doesn't bear that out.

    Can't speak for the triumph, but there have certainly been drop tests comparing iPhone to other models. Let's look at concurrently released leading models ...iPhone 4S vs Samsung Galaxy S II drop test. Of course this won't hold true for all models, but if you look at the current top end Android Phones like the One X, the S3, Razr Maxx and even the GNex, only the Maxx weighs in heavier than the 4S at 145g. Granted we are only talking a few grams either way, but add the glass on both sides of the 4S and you have doubled the probability for damage.

    Nobody is denying that antenna attenuation isn't a hurdle all handset manufacturers deal with and antenna location in the device will vary the amount of signal loss depending where and how a user holds it, but we're talking about what many consider to be a design flaw, not a design choice. Apple chose to put an exposed dipole antenna on the 4/4S which in theory could provide better signal strength, but proved problematic when the galvanic skin conductance was shown on some people to bridge the two poles of the antenna and reduce the signal by an order of magnitude. It may also be why the vast majority of handset manufacturers are still using monopole antenna designs.
  5. Bob Maxey

    Bob Maxey Well-Known Member

    Not so fast. I agree, the system needs to be looked at. That said, if you own a patent, you must protect it. And corporations have been fighting patent battles since the beginning of time. OK, since the beginning of the patent system. You only know about these battles because of the Internet. It is as though you think Apple is the only one.

    If a small company cant afford the costs then perhaps they should hire better lawyers to vet their products. Small companies can be worse than Apple but Apple is an easy target.

    Hell, we spent allot of money at Megahertz before we released the X-Jack and Palm had issues with the Pilot Pen Company; the PPC was suing us over the use of the name "Pilot." We even had issues with a special tool we used to move printed circuit boards into and out of the ovens.

    I am not saying Apple is always doing the right thing, but in the case of patent protections, they must protect their property and small companies should also check things out before they release a product that might infringe.
  6. lunatic59

    lunatic59 Moderati ergo sum Moderator

    If you recall, Apple tried this once with their desktop OS and it was such a failure it nearly brought the company to it's knees. It is not and never will be their business model.

    If Google gave every handset manufacturer a small percentage of it's profits from Android use, I'm sure there would be many more Android handsets and fewer iPhones, but that's not going to happen either.
  7. strumcat

    strumcat Member

    It's very simple. An iPhone is a fashion accessory. An Android phone is a geek toy. Different strokes for different folks. Personally I would be bored to death with an iPhone. All you can do with it is flash it around at Starbucks. My Galaxy Nexus is endless fun, and a great phone. I wouldn' t trade it for any iPhone.
    PattiCakeUS likes this.
  8. Bob Maxey

    Bob Maxey Well-Known Member

    Not me, I flash my iPad at Starbucks. I do see plenty of Android phones at Dunkin' Donuts and McDonalds, however. Not sure what that means.

    Why is your Nexus better or so much more fun than an iPhone?
  9. jroc

    jroc Well-Known Member

    Well....the one vs. many argument and market share....

    We really won't know since there are so many Android phones. All I know is...ppl are choosing Android. And ppl left win mo. Ppl left blackberry. Those things happened for a reason. It's not just about price, cuz win mo and bb had cheaper prices too.

    Look at wp7, they offer cheaper prices now...and still have less market share than the old win mo.

    Android might not be perfect....but it's good enough that ppl like it vs. other phones. And I mentioned issues with iOS and macrumors.com because some, alot of the issues I see there aren't major. Like face time not working, or the phone not backing up or importing right.

    IOS isn't perfect. It has issues like other OS's.
  10. Speed Daemon

    Speed Daemon Disabled

    Dammit! Now I can't get that song from "The Simpsons" Monorail episode out of my mind...

    FYI in LMR we don't call them monopoles. Half a dipole is a quarter wavelength (
    lunatic59 likes this.
  11. kevincott

    kevincott Well-Known Member Contributor

    While I do not buy Apple products (cost mainly) I do support them emotionally and as competition breeds innovation.

    iOS, Windows mobile, Blackberry and such push Android to improve, just as the developer communities push Google towards new achievement.

    Will I buy an iPhone? Prolly not, but I'm glad it's out there.
    jmar and EarlyMon like this.
  12. Speed Daemon

    Speed Daemon Disabled

    Apple is the only one that's germane to this conversation.

    Please, let's steer away from ad hominem territory, OK?

    I hope you notice the inherent flaw in that reasoning without me having to tell you. But just in case, it's obvious that if a company can't afford to pay lots of lawyers' fees, it also can't afford to pay lots of lawyers' fees.

    Also, you're assuming that the target is always liable. That's not true.

    Did you work at Palm? I worked for Freeborn & Peters, who represented Palm, Inc. up to and through 3com's purchase of the company. Small world. (Not germane to the topic however. IJS)

    You're not saying it outright, but by inferring that every company that Apple threatened to sue had it coming you are most certainly saying that very thing indirectly. IME and IMO Apple has sued as a strategy, and have been in the wrong more often than not.

    For example, Apple sued Microsoft, and even won, over the WIMP user interface. As we all know, WIMP was developed by Xerox in Palo Alto, and Apple didn't have anything more than a handshake agreement with the Xerox people in Palo Alto (not corporate management) over licensing WIMP and other Xerox technology. OTOH they had a solid contract (Bill Gates is a very good businessman) with Microsoft to develop the first software for Lisa, and then Macintosh. This contract did in fact have a clause that gave Microsoft certain rights to the WIMP interface, not unlike how Intel's contract with AMD gave AMD rights to produce IA-32 CPUs.

    In another case, Apple sued Amazon.com, claiming that they had sole ownership of the word "app" despite the fact that it has been a commonly used contraction of "applications" in the English speaking world for decades.

    There's more quantity of cases than I care to try to fit into here, but all that needs to be done is to examine the quality of Apple's lawsuits, and it quickly becomes apparent that they're slinging mud in the hopes that enough sticks to favor them.
    novox77 and PattiCakeUS like this.
  13. EarlyMon

    EarlyMon The PearlyMon Moderator

    Hi Bob, long time no see! :) Hope all is well with you.

    Oooooooookay, LoL

    You're referring to models - it's quite a bit less than hundreds per year, or we'd be building device subforums around here at a much higher rate.

    But I take your point - Android has many models and they tend to have a regular annual product roll-over, much like any other line of consumer products - HDTVs, cars, etc etc.

    Wait, that's the first time I've seen you confuse facts.

    Until the iP4s intro, the iPhone had its regular annual model roll-over, just like the others. Only AT&T was continuing to sell old inventory of the iP3gs along with refurbs - I checked, there was no place else in the world to buy them otherwise late into the iP4 life.

    At the last iPhone keynote conference, Tim Cook shocked some analysts (not me, I'd predicted it for months on our forums) and announced that the iP4 wasn't rolling away, it was staying current and the iP3gs was also staying in regular supply.

    So, if you go to the Apple Store there are not perhaps two, there are definitely 3 models presented to the consumer (and we'll forgo the memory variations).

    Apple turned at that point from a single model into a model line - commensurate with most all successful consumer products, Android included.

    And it does. It says that consumers have approved of the product, it reflects that two years ago when people were laughing at the idea that all Android could ever possibly overtake the iPhone that it at one point held full market dominance and it says that people will continue to find it a viable choice.

    It says nothing about why I posted the article though. I posted the article to simply provide a rebuttal at face value to the title of this thread, namely, ICS: This is why Apple iPhone trumps Android.

    Because the days of the iPhone trumping Android are over in the marketplace.

    Can't argue with the normal trend in product sales during model turnovers for consumer goods.

    Dr. Demming, the prophet of statistical process control and the guy who taught the Japanese how to build and compete in industry, would have a field day with that remark, and it's where I'll focus because he couldn't make it on account of being among the unliving. ;)

    As Dr. Demming would ask - what does it mean, not because it is better?

    Do statistics and process observations provide any insight?

    Yes. Yes, they do.

    Android seems to be better at market growth looking at the last two years. Android seems to be better at offering a wider selection of models than iPhone. Android seems to be better at offering a wider selection of prices within its model range than iPhone. Android seems to be better at offering features to fill market segments not address by iPhone (qwerty models, removable battery models, sd card models, screen size models, and design models).

    So, that leaves us with appears to the obvious meaning by context that you had - not because Android is technically better.

    And technically better can either mean by features or by quality (a binary according to the Carnegie Mellon Institute's IBM Fellows) or by the statistics I've already covered or by consumer satisfaction.

    And all of the components of technically better listed above (did I miss any?) can be measured, and I believe have been measured.

    So, really, you've asked your own question - what does it mean, not because Android is better?

    Not hundreds each year then, we agree. But let's say a hundred as an order of magnitude.

    iPhone or some Android model? Either are available without contract.

    I will allow that any consumer purchase is made because the consumer felt that the model chosen was the best for them at the time. The four parameters of demand, in order, are price, product, promotion and the marketing avenue.

    Each individual responds to varying weights of those parameters and chooses what meets their personal demand, thereby perceiving that they purchased the best product, yes.

    If you meant best technically I covered that.

    Technical quality is a phrase often used because it's very seductive. It seems to have substance. It seems to mean something. It seems that everyone accepts that. Especially because at its root the phrase consists of two words that quantitative.

    Put those two words together and the phrase describes something qualitative only. Yet many will never stop for the epiphany that what they assume is quantitative really isn't at all.

    An interesting hypothetical.

    Please specify parameters of the hypothetical licensing terms and the economical climate and industrial supply makeup leading to the cultural change within Apple resulting in that drastic change in that management decision.

    Without constraints on the hypothetical situation, I couldn't begin to venture a guess.

    Perhaps you're right, I wouldn't say. And if Android were not open source, what would it be? Free? Licensed for pay?

    Do other members of the Open Handset Alliance go with Android because of the legal protections of open source, or because it's free and Google has to do the majority of the heavy lifting? Honestly, I don't know.

    Hope I've clarified why I posted the link, it's always a pleasure, Bob! :)
    novox77, PattiCakeUS and jroc like this.
  14. Bob Maxey

    Bob Maxey Well-Known Member

    I worked at Megahertz in a garage with a handful of others. We grew, we were bought by USRobotics, then 3Com, then MSL. At some point, we manufactured 99.999 of all Palm products.
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  15. Speed Daemon

    Speed Daemon Disabled

    I vaguely remember Apple Computer, Inc. thinking about licensing the OS to 3rd parties, but can't recall if they went through with it. I do recall Apple suing Franklin and other companies over their use of parts of the Apple 2 ROM, and more recently a company called Psystar for selling an IA-32/AMD-64 PC with OSX preinstalled.

    Apple does have a well deserved reputation for being a control freak.
  16. Speed Daemon

    Speed Daemon Disabled

    According to a recent survey, more Democrats got their coffee at Starbucks, and more Republicans got their coffee at Dunkin' Donuts. McDonald's is a favorite early morning hangout for old people who come for the "bottomless cup of coffee", and older people tend to be more conservative.

    Make of that what you will.
  17. lunatic59

    lunatic59 Moderati ergo sum Moderator

    Macintosh clone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    I still have an old StarMax sitting around here somewhere. I bet if I plugged it in, It would still boot up System 8.5 (Which was the last OS it would run stably). They were capable and cheaper alternatives to Apple models, but it began to relegate the Macintosh line to a commodity item, not unlike PC's of the same era. Apple just wasn't ready for the low margin/high support/confusing variant issues associated with multiple independent manufacturers.
    Speed Daemon likes this.
  18. Bnice

    Bnice Guest

    @Bob Yes Android has a vast amount of handset to choose from compare to Apple but we all know Samsung Galaxy s2 single phone model outsells or compete with the iphone 4,4s on the same level.
  19. Speed Daemon

    Speed Daemon Disabled

    Wow, that's cool! I didn't know much about Megahertz, but I remember driving by USRobotics (on I-90 IIRC) and thinking they must supply automakers. (Car-making robots were big news around that time.) Years later I was a frequent USR modem buyer. I still keep a couple of old USR ISDN boxes and the ubiquitous 3C905 NICs handy just in case.
  20. greenghost2212

    greenghost2212 Well-Known Member

    Man I saw sooo many incorrect statements it ain't even funny lbvs smh lol my ns4g so called just works too this is my signal most of the time

    Attached Files:

  21. zuben el genub

    zuben el genub Well-Known Member

    @steveo42 -
    I rooted my phone to get rid of most of the apps you desire.

    Yes, ICS can be inconsistent. I had it briefly on the Nexus S, and it was no problem.
    Some apps are flaky on the Acer A500 - but they weren't written for a tablet or the maker is just trying to catch up. Everyone screamed about not getting an update as soon as it was released. Some impatient ones hacked ICS on the phone.

    Android is still dealing with carriers and tablet makers, and all are wanting something different to increase profits. All this junk has to be accommodated, so patience is a virtue. If you wait, most of the bugs will be fixed by that time. Acer is still updating tablets to ICS. It's the price we pay for our favorite OS. I'm inclined to pay that price. Newer isn't always better if it has been rushed into production.
  22. alextop30

    alextop30 Well-Known Member

    To add some fuel to the fire here - I have to agree with the title of the post but because of a different reason. I have Galaxy S2 and really like it but ICS especially 4.0.3 was a horrible idea. It is unpolished buggy system that does not deserve a second look. The 4.0.4 on my brother's Galaxy Nexus is sooo much better.

    Here is what Apple does well to my opinion. Marketing (yep they are gods). Make people even programmers think that this phone is better because of a half eaten apple logo - brilliant. Next - software and this is again particular to the user but their stuff works. Apps do not hang or make the iphone stuck - for example I tried starting the youtube app and it got stuck 5 times in a row from the home screen - I had to restart my phone to unstuck it (that should not happen). Operating system and release of updates - It does help that there is one authority on releasing the updates because they deliver bug fixes fast and you don't have carriers bottleneck everything.

    Updates if you ask me for the older phones do not come fast enough - the custom roms on the Galaxy S2 are up to the current android version released by samsung which is 4.0.3 and google is already on 4.1 - really - really now?

    Android has very many good sides like customization ability beyond belief but seriously crappy software gives the community a really bad name almost as bad as the way Google released the Nexus 7. Software needs to have maybe a month cycle of approval and integration so at the end of month 2 OTA ---- yes that thing that updates your phone not KIES.
  23. jroc

    jroc Well-Known Member

    Camera freezes on my 4s - MacRumors Forums

    Music App Lag - MacRumors Forums

    iPhone 4S won't play a lot of music - MacRumors Forums

    Sound stopped working on iPhone!! - MacRumors Forums

    iPhone 4S YouTube Problem - MacRumors Forums

    MacRumors Forums - View Single Post - No sound out of ear piece.

    iPhone Bugs - MacRumors Forums

    MacRumors Forums - View Single Post - iPhone Bugs

    MacRumors Forums - View Single Post - iPhone Bugs

    MacRumors Forums - View Single Post - Problem setting up Yahoo mail on iPhone

    MacRumors Forums - View Single Post - Problem setting up Yahoo mail on iPhone

    I will stop with just these links. For the iPhone bugs link...look at the last few pages for the more recent iPhone models.....

    Most of the ones not about YouTube are from the first page of the trouble shooting section.

    The iPhone has issues too with software..... IMO...its really no different than any other mobile OS and issues.
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  24. alextop30

    alextop30 Well-Known Member

    Ok I think I kind of misspoke - just works is a bad statement. What I mean was that it seems everything is quite a bit smoother and there does not seem to be big problems with the operating system like the version Samsung released 4.0.3 I write a lot in that forum and there have been many many people that wanted to go back to gingerbread because of what ICS does not have to offer. I still get occasional supidity when it comes to lunching some of the apps. I really hope that a 4.0.4 rom will come along or maybe even Jellybean and would fix things.

    The other big thing is that OTA needs to be turned back on cough cough Samsung.
  25. ItnStln511

    ItnStln511 Well-Known Member

    One thing that I think Apple does better than Google and Android is marketing.
    PattiCakeUS likes this.
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