Liberals are...smarter!

[WAdude]

Yes, you can doubt a theory and still use it. This is not an either or type thing. I would very much like to see the speed of light proven wrong, and Einstein as well since it means we might have a chance to get outside of our own solar system let alone galaxy.

Science will never prove any god exist since the very definition of what a god and what science is does not allow that.

Any god == it not bounds by natural world
science == study of the natural world

Thats what I have been trying to say all along, . Why do these atheists want scientifical proof of God. When religion and science dont go together. one asked me he doesnt want scientifical proof, just proof. Ofcourse he would not understand my proof, because he cannot feel, nor does he believe in God.

 

[RAND0M1ZER]

Thank you.

Personally, I would have to say no for a couple of reasons. First, zero is not a number (I know, semantics and technicalities ). Second, are we talking about the theory with respect to quantum mechanics? If so, how do you get around the Heisenberg's uncertainty principle? Also, this is basically the same as the theory on the speed of light. We lack the technology to actually test the theories. BTW, if it helps I'm also not 100% sold on the speed of light either.

What don't you understand about the speed of light? You think that it would be possible to make matter travel at that speed? Or you think that there are waves or matter in the universe which can travel faster?

The reason that these two things are so hard to test is because it is impossible to get a perfect closed system, energy will always find a way to seep in or out.

Yes, you can doubt a theory and still use it. This is not an either or type thing. I would very much like to see the speed of light proven wrong, and Einstein as well since it means we might have a chance to get outside of our own solar system let alone galaxy.

Science will never prove any god exist since the very definition of what a god and what science is does not allow that.

Any god == it not bounds by natural world
science == study of the natural world

Thank you for posting that, if god is not bound to the natural world then he cannot have any effect on it or else it would be measurable.

 

[germ.e83]

Thank you for posting that, if god is not bound to the natural world then he cannot have any effect on it or else it would be measurable.

Why could He not have an impact on it? Just because something isn't bound by a restriction does not necessarily mean it cant interact w/ elements in that restriction?

 

[WAdude]

How do you know it does not come from men? You have made some assertions and I would like you to back them up please. There is a reason why Socrates was/is considered the smartest man to have lived.

So China has social laws, correct? Did you know China is an atheistic country? So, does China have social laws, and if so where did they come from?

Look, religion affected social law. Because really, without religion, you would be living in an artificial world, and you know that. Unless, the very first human, who did not even know how to start a fire, just made up social law.

 

[OrderFromChaos]

Thats what I have been trying to say all along, . Why do these atheists want scientifical proof of God. When religion and science dont go together. one asked me he doesnt want scientifical proof, just proof. Ofcourse he would not understand my proof, because he cannot feel, nor does he believe in God.

Keep in mind, science and religion are not mutually exclusive. There are many people that use them both in their every day lives. The key is knowing when to use what. Personally, I think JFK summed it up best:

"I am not the Catholic candidate for President. I am the Democratic Party candidate for President who also happens to be a Catholic. I do not speak for my Church on public matters

 

[RAND0M1ZER]

Why could He not have an impact on it? Just because something isn't bound by a restriction does not necessarily mean it cant interact w/ elements in that restriction?

If it could interact with elements in our universe then there would be proof for his existence.

 

[OrderFromChaos]

What don't you understand about the speed of light? You think that it would be possible to make matter travel at that speed? Or you think that there are waves or matter in the universe which can travel faster?

The reason that these two things are so hard to test is because it is impossible to get a perfect closed system, energy will always find a way to seep in or out.




Thank you for posting that, if god is not bound to the natural world then he cannot have any effect on it or else it would be measurable.

It is not that "I don't understand the speed of light" but rather we are rather ignorant beings that still have very, very much to learn.

 

[RAND0M1ZER]

Look, religion affected social law. Because really, without religion, you would be living in an artificial world, and you know that. Unless, the very first human, who did not even know how to start a fire, just made up social law.

What does that have to do whether or not there is a god?

Are you arguing for a particular religion? Christianity for example.

Or are you trying to say that without religion there would be now laws? and that our morality is proof of god?

 

[OrderFromChaos]

Why could He not have an impact on it? Just because something isn't bound by a restriction does not necessarily mean it cant interact w/ elements in that restriction?

Hence why I used the term "bound" and not "part of" or something along those lines.

 

[germ.e83]

If it could interact with elements in our universe then there would be proof for his existence.

I'm sorry, it just seems like you're really stretching here. What 'proof' are you talking about? Believers would consider the physical world itself as proof of God's existence. What kind of proof are you referring to?

 

[OrderFromChaos]

Look, religion affected social law. Because really, without religion, you would be living in an artificial world, and you know that. Unless, the very first human, who did not even know how to start a fire, just made up social law.

No, I do not know this. Stop making assumptions. What "artificial world" do you speak of if religion was not present? I've never heard that one.

Animals have social laws so can you detail to me what their religion is please?

 

[Isthmus]

Just because Im 14, thanks. But anyways, science has yet found absolute zero, but its a theory. Do you agree with that theory?

Yes because you are fourteen. Don't be so arrogant as to think that you have all the answers or that you even have a full understanding of the concepts you are so losely throwing about. Based on what you've written thus far your command of some topics is basic at best. My intent is not to criticize, but rather to point out that critical thinking is a learned skill which takes practice to do well - especially in written form. Rather than lash out try to see what you can learn from some of the points made by others. Since you are arguing the religious point of view, then remember that pride and arrogance are after all very specific Christian sins.

 

[germ.e83]

I just have to back up what OrderFromChaos said about science/religion not being mutually exclusive. I think many people are getting caught up on that. I personally love Science. Study it, keep up on it, strive to achieve a better understanding of it. However, I also believe very strongly in God. Why does one need to cancel out the other?

 

[RAND0M1ZER]

I'm sorry, it just seems like you're really stretching here. What 'proof' are you talking about? Believers would consider the physical world itself as proof of God's existence. What kind of proof are you referring to?

Well alot of people believe that God intervenes with the lives of people, if this were true there would be evidence.

If there were a god, I doubt it would give 2 shits what we insignificant humans are doing.

 

[WAdude]

Thank you for posting that, if god is not bound to the natural world then he cannot have any effect on it or else it would be measurable.

Can you really measure feelings? Like spiritual feelings? Just because we cant understand whats outside the Universe, doesnt mean whats outside the Universe can understand us. We use mathematics to measure and calculate things in our Universe, we use numbers to substitue for forces that we cannot see, and make it into equations. Thats how we can predict things, because our Universe follows these mathematical laws. Thats the key to our Universe. Now other Universes (or God), can use another system of laws to follow, laws that we cannot understand. But they might know the laws our Universes follow. So who knows, there might be a God out there that we dont know about. You should read the bible, then you would know not to take the whole Adam and the apple thing to litteral, what if before eating the apple, we had the laws to connect with things outside of our Universe, but somehow, Adam broke Gods rules, and ate the apple. Thus we lost the laws to understand things outside of our Universe. The bible is full of metaphors, you atheists take it literally and interpret it as it is. Thats yalls problem.

 

[mpw]

.

 

[RAND0M1ZER]

I just have to back up what OrderFromChaos said about science/religion not being mutually exclusive. I think many people are getting caught up on that. I personally love Science. Study it, keep up on it, strive to achieve a better understanding of it. However, I also believe very strongly in God. Why does one need to cancel out the other?

Because sometimes they interfere with one another. It seems to me that as science makes more and more progress, less and less needs to be explained by religion.

Earthquakes, lightning, evolution, the history of the universe all used to be created by god but now that there is scientific evidence for all those things. It is only a matter of time before science finds more answers.

 

[germ.e83]

Well alot of people believe that God intervenes with the lives of people, if this were true there would be evidence.

Based on what? And again I ask, what kind of evidence?

If there were a god, I doubt it would give 2 shits what we insignificant humans are doing.

I'm sorry, but your personal doubt about what God would or would not care about makes little difference in the matter.

 

[OrderFromChaos]

Can you really measure feelings? Like spiritual feelings? Just because we cant understand whats outside the Universe, doesnt mean whats outside the Universe can understand us. We use mathematics to measure and calculate things in our Universe, we use numbers to substitue for forces that we cannot see, and make it into equations. Thats how we can predict things, because our Universe follows these mathematical laws. Thats the key to our Universe. Now other Universes (or God), can use another system of laws to follow, laws that we cannot understand. But they might know the laws our Universes follow. So who knows, there might be a God out there that we dont know about. You should read the bible, then you would know not to take the whole Adam and the apple thing to litteral, what if before eating the apple, we had the laws to connect with things outside of our Universe, but somehow, Adam broke Gods rules, and ate the apple. Thus we lost the laws to understand things outside of our Universe. The bible is full of metaphors, you atheists take it literally and interpret it as it is. Thats yalls problem.

You do a disservice to yourself and your religion when you lump others into predefined notions that you have of people. Case in point, many atheists used to be religious and have a very solid understanding of the allegorical stories in the Bible. Maybe an assumption of my part, but I felt you started making assumptions about me, hence why I mentioned I'm an atheist. I usually don't care, but thought I would throw that disclaimer out there for you.

This is one of my favorite quotes, I hope that any who read it actually understand the man's point.

 

[WAdude]

Yes because you are fourteen. Don't be so arrogant as to think that you have all the answers or that you even have a full understanding of the concepts you are so losely throwing about. Based on what you've written thus far your command of some topics is basic at best. My intent is not to criticize, but rather to point out that critical thinking is a learned skill which takes practice to do well - especially in written form. Rather than lash out try to see what you can learn from some of the points made by others. Since you are arguing the religious point of view, then remember that pride and arrogance are after all very specific Christian sins.

I dont have a full understanding of anything. And yeah, we all have arrogance and pride. What, you think us christians think we are perfect? No. We are not. And anyways, just because I am 14, does that really matter. But you are right, Ill give you that, I am critizing other people of their opinions, "dont point out the spec in your brothers eye, for there is a log in yours".

 

[RAND0M1ZER]

Can you really measure feelings? Like spiritual feelings?

Well, feeling are really just chemical changes in the body. Alot of ancient religions would starve themselves or ingest certain plants to induce these 'religious' experiences.

Just because we cant understand whats outside the Universe, doesnt mean whats outside the Universe can understand us. We use mathematics to measure and calculate things in our Universe, we use numbers to substitue for forces that we cannot see, and make it into equations. Thats how we can predict things, because our Universe follows these mathematical laws.

I agree.

Thats the key to our Universe. Now other Universes (or God), can use another system of laws to follow, laws that we cannot understand. But they might know the laws our Universes follow.

I am not sure if I am understanding this right but you are saying that god would be above the physical laws of our universe? If so this would be evident to us.

The bible is full of metaphors, you atheists take it literally and interpret it as it is. Thats yalls problem.

You would be surprised how many people take the Bible very literally.

 

[germ.e83]

Because sometimes they interfere with one another. It seems to me that as science makes more and more progress, less and less needs to be explained by religion.

Earthquakes, lightning, evolution, the history of the universe all used to be created by god but now that there is scientific evidence for all those things. It is only a matter of time before science finds more answers.

Earthquakes, lightning (I'm pretty sure my understanding of these two concepts as a Christian are fairly in line w/ mainstream beliefs -->Most modern believers tend to turn down the theory that lightning is a result of Zeus.

Evolution/history of the universe, I'm pretty sure these are still theories, no? Once definitive scientific proof exists to give a 100% answer on each, I'd be the first to read up on it. Still, I doubt it'd be enough to change my faith.

 

[WAdude]

You do a disservice to yourself and your religion when you lump others into predefined notions that you have of people. Case in point, many atheists used to be religious and have a very solid understanding of the allegorical stories in the Bible. Maybe an assumption of my part, but I felt you started making assumptions about me, hence why I mentioned I'm an atheist. I usually don't care, but thought I would throw that disclaimer out there for you.

This is one of my favorite quotes, I hope that any who read it actually understand the man's point.

 

[mpw]

.

 

[WAdude]

Well, feeling are really just chemical changes in the body. Alot of ancient religions would starve themselves or ingest certain plants to induce these 'religious' experiences.


I agree.


I am not sure if I am understanding this right but you are saying that god would be above the physical laws of our universe? If so this would be evident to us.


You would be surprised how many people take the Bible very literally.

No I am not saying that (Im bad at explaining what I mean), what I mean is we only know the laws that this Universe follows, because thats what we have to study. But it might just be that a deity out there has different laws, ones that ours might not just apply to (like trying to use binary code to crack some super code), but that deity that created us, has the laws to our Universe.