Discussion in 'Politics and Current Affairs' started by cjr72, Sep 29, 2010.
Daniel Klein: Are You Smarter Than a Fifth Grader? - WSJ.com
That explains a lot doesn't it!
It's too bad the venerable Wall Street Journal is now owned and operated by the Faux News folks. That means that virtually everything in the paper not related to numerical business reporting is suspect.
I saw WSJ.com and decided not to read it.
Since everyone here ignores Fox News and such, here is a link to the study and article source:
Mr. Klein is a professor of economics at George Mason University. This op-ed is based on an article published in the May 2010 issue of the journal he edits, Econ Journal Watch, a project sponsored by the American Institute for Economic Research. The article is at: Economic Enlightenment in Relation to College-going, Ideology, and Other Variables: A Zogby Survey of Americans Econ Journal Watch: Economic enlightenment, college education, economic education, schooling
There are a lot of Kleins....I keep on getting them mixed up with Joe Klein from TIME.
This "study" has so many flaws that anyone who has taken Poli Sci 101 would immediately see the problems in it. I guess for the general public, they don't go beyond the WSJ article to see the original source, look through it, and also gauge the responses from peers. The pollsters themselves state that there are flaws within their polling and if you've actually read the questions asked, they either did not directly relate to anything economics or was slanted to the conservative side. The questions were made in a way that conservatives would be considered "right". That's why there is such a HUGE difference in terms of who were "wrong".
Check out this first:
Economic Enlightenment in Relation to College-going, Ideology, and Other Variables: A Zogby Survey of Americans Econ Journal Watch: Economic enlightenment, college education, economic education, schooling
FiveThirtyEight: Politics Done Right: Are You Smarter Than a George Mason University Economics Professor?
Again... to the general public, they will be easily fooled by the article from Fox News owned WSJ. To anyone who has studied basic political science... and I mean this is even encroaching AP Government level in high school... this survey would be an EASY one to tell that it's poorly done with the sole purpose to deceive.
Just wanted to let everyone know right now before you make a fool of yourselves and actually believe this survey to be well done and argue for it. I guess in this case... the title of this thread should be:
"Conservatives flunk poli sci 101" or... "General public gets punked"
So what your saying is that you disagree? Too bad, it seems to be spot on from my vantage point....lol
What I'm saying is that the survey has so many flaws in it. If you haven't taken a Poli Sci class, then you probably wont know or understand what's wrong. It's ok... you're just a member of the general public.
I am NOT disagreeing with their results. Liberals could very well be less "economically enlightened" than conservatives. What I disagree with is any notion that this survey was done correctly, logically, and without bias. ANYONE that has taken a Poli Sci class will instantly know the problems with the survey. The questions alone are badly worded, irrelevant to "economic enlightenment", or worded from bias.
Take this simple example:
1. Do you believe that having the choice of abortion is wrong? Yes or No?
2. Do you believe that murdering innocent little babies while still in the mother's uterus is wrong? Yes or No?
3. Do you believe that women are smart enough to make the decision of whether or not she should abort her child and not by the government deciding for her? Yes or No?
All 3 relate to abortion. #1 is by far the best one to have because it has virtually no bias and is a straight out answer that isn't influenced by the question.
Also... the pollsters decide whether one answer or the other is better by opinion of the pollster. Dr. Klein is libertarian and researches libertarian political philosophy.
I am a student in a scientific field... I am very used to digging into the background information of any research that I do for a report or project. It is absolutely crucial to be skeptical of anyone's published works and not take it as it is upfront (if you do that in science... you're done), especially any surveys. Being skeptical and being objective are two very important traits that any student of science should have.
So in case anyone wants to accuse me of not agreeing simply because I'm a liberal independent... think twice.
I'm very aware of the psychology behind these polls. Which is why all these "studies" folks keep using to support their opinions hold no bearing with me.
"you're just a member of the general public" would be the opinion of the public.
Strange as it seems, no amount of learning can cure stupidity, and higher education positively fortifies it. - Stephen Vinzinczey
I love it when I see someone use the word faux in correlation to Fox. All the liberal news channels are just as faux as Fox is. Just from the other sides perspective.
I wouldn't fret it. His presents here is just to antagonize anyone that can see beyond his party's ideals.
Oh I know. I just love how his word play doesn't even fit. Alas, this is all the two major parties has come down to really. Petty insults towards each other.
Got to agree with Vihzel, those questions were not well put, and prove nothing.
Somebody with no opinion would get no answer 'incorrect', but they would've got nothing correct either.
Then there's the issue that some 'incorrect' answers may have sound reasoning behind them, that the questioner hasn't considered.
Surveys like this are worse than useless.
So... we agree that this proves nothing?
Just to correct a factual inaccuracy that some (apparently liberal leaning) members of the forum appear to have.
The Wall Street Journal isn't owned by Fox News. It is owned by Rupert Murdoch, who also owns Fox News.
It's about as much proof as the science community gives us for evolution. But that doesn't mean the results aren't factual.
LMAO. Spend a day with an evolutionary biologist... you'll learn so much information on evolution that it'll make your brain hurt. I took 2 evolutionary biology classes at my university and there's still so much that we haven't studied. It's FAR more proof than this... "survey". It's definitely proves far more than "nothing", as this survey does. Now a correctly done survey would've basically asked the participant questions from perhaps the Economics AP exam, where there is either a right or wrong answer (and perhaps have to add an explanation on why that person chose it so it's not like he/she guessed correctly) and not based off simply opinion. That will gauge far more accurately if a person actually knows economics.
A well done survey will be like a Calculus test. There can be several ways to get the correct answer but in the end... it is either right or wrong. No exceptions. The problems are not influenced at all by the professor to try to make you get a wrong answer because he wants another person to do better and the professor can NOT do anything to determine if you have the right answer or not based off of his own opinion.
This survey is not like a Calculus test.
Did you look at the actual report from the first link? Did you see any other of the links? It's quite obvious... at least to me.
Fox News = Rupert Murdoch
Really? You think Fox News became MORE conservative after Murdoch bought it.
And I don't mean the commentary, I mean the news. All commentary got more fringe during the past decade.
I've been reading the WSJ editorial columns since before Murdoch bought it. I haven't noticed much change in tone since. Pretty much the same cast of characters (Paul Gigot, Daniel Henninger, etc) write in it. Is it conservative? Absolutely.
BANG! and your credibility is gone!
He owns Sky
According to Sky News EU is responsible for all of UKs woes
I'm sorry... but when did I ever say that Fox News became more conservative after Murdoch bought it? I simply said that Fox News was Rupert Murdoch because he owns it and has control over it.
That's absolutely ridiculous on every level.
That's just an attempt to discredit any article by any other news outlet that Murdoch owns, simply because he OWNS Fox.
Looking at this the other way, You would have to conclude that Fox News is as credible as the Wall Street Journal, because Murdoch owns both of them, and has control over them.