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Mac VS PC: ultimate face off!...

How much open source code is Windows built from? I bet there's a little, ms are always being reported on for stealing stuff.

But osx is an open source base, sold. I don't agree with that.

It may be contradictory, but I'm allowed to be because 1) I am human and 2) I am a hypocrite

:)

More than a little....

As a Windows-Mac convert in progress I'll add my $0.02

Hardware design:
Overall Apple builds a solid laptop, all aluminum construction just makes the laptop feel SOLID and it looks really nice. The keyboard and trackpad are nice bits of design and engineering as well. Compared to the Dell Latitudes/Inspiron and the HP Pavilion machines I have experience with, the Apple is just better from a build quality/design standpoint. The screen is second to none, especially in bright sunlight. I could sit on my deck in the summer (North side of the building) and be able to read text on the screen clearly, I couldn't do that with either of the other laptops at my disposal.

OS:
Windows has some things it does better but after using OS X Lion for the last few months (work-supplied Mac) I'm beginning to see the light. Some tasks are easier, some things just make sense. Daily I have multiple "desktops" in use, one with email one with web browser and one with chat client. In fact I'm using a 13" MBP with a Windows machine with dual 19" LCDs sitting right next to me. The Mac just "feels" faster (Mac is a 2.3 i5, the Dell is a 2.5 i5).

Yes, there are SOME things one can do that the other can't (goes both ways), but that's why I have RDC installed on the Mac, and the Dell computer still functioning as it's supposed to.

To the point of automation. Windows 7 has the Powershell now, I would imagine some of what a previous poster had scripted on a Mac could possibly be done with Powershell on a Windows 7 box. I haven't gotten into that yet but I probably will once I'm ACMT certified.

I won't speak to the cost perspective as I haven't shopped laptops or desktop parts in depth in the last year or so.

Powershell is awesome - and scary. I'm glad that they introduced it when most people are looking for GUI interfaces and a point-and-click way of managing things. Powershell can get a novice user in trouble way faster and with more (deadly) accuracy than the regular commandline can....

I call it M$ bash lol

It's helpful to look at how, when and why the two companies embraced unix.

Apple did it upon Jobs' return, when they were at the point of maximum damage from the Skulley days. Internally, they had in the past looked at various OS alternatives to MacOS but those went nowhere. Jobs got that MacOS was beyond repair, and along with his NeXT experience, saw a bit of light. OS X was launched and the open part of it became the Darwin project. Interestingly, the BSD kernel was abandoned in favor of the Mach kernel, whose source code at the time was quite a mess.

The first open source I'm aware of in Windows was their TCP/IP improvements (back around 2000 or so when networking _really_ started to work well on Windows), stolen whole cloth from BSD without credit. This was strongly denied as re-engineered until someone leaked source and it still had the open source credits in it. Then there was the Microsoft attempt at the Korn shell. Upon its unveiling, an MS wonk stood up and explained how great it was. An old guy in the audience sang out that it violated a number of conventions, and the wonk argued that perhaps the old fart didn't know that ksh was well-known and that blah blah blah. The old fart simply answered, Yes, I know, my name is David Korn. There was a time when Microsoft had guns blazing for FOSS. But that was then.

The relationships of SuSE(*), Novell, Attachmate, WRQ and Microsoft are dizzying. In a day many of us never thought could come, Microsoft now owns Linux-related patents and to top that off, a small piece of your Android phone was paid to MS.

Apple initially embraced open source to survive. Microsoft did it gain a portion of control of a competitor.

Both seem to have succeeded admirably.



*Footnote - in the early dot com days, SuSE Linux was recognized and certified by the EU for telecommunications, and stories of their phone companies adopting SuSE right and left was a common occurrence on Slashdot. What a coincidence how that all ties to phones, money and control and how interesting things ended up playing out today. Yep - total coincidence. I also have bridges for sale.

lol - you know a lot more than I realized - and I pride myself on my knowledge of these things.

Well put, and thanks for reminding me (and educating me) about these things as well as for putting it all in perspective.

oh, and I'm a great middle man if you want to unload a bridge or three. :D

One thing Apple no longer mentions, and they used to -

Darwin (operating system) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

GNU-Darwin Distribution | Free System Administration software downloads at SourceForge.net

We had rather high hopes for that at one point. Oh, well. I did get a good set of usable avatars out of it.

Homepage of Hexley the DarwinOS mascot

I snipped out the rest of your comment because I agreed with it. :)

I get Darwin. Trust me. NeXT, though, IIRC, was not OS - and there is (was) enough of NeXT when they brought Jobs onboard the second time to qualify it as a hybrid at the very least, certainly not just a mere port right?

not that i dislike apple products or anything but if you ask me, id say that apple products are fashon accessories, not hard core tech like windows or LG.

I have to respectfully disagree. Just ask Industrial Light and magic, for one.

Can't overestimate the power of the killer app, in my opinion.

Mac started with a few, Word, Lotus, Paint, but before long, you got Office bundled on just about every new PC. That is a killer app suite. (Also runs well on a Mac after you pay extra.)

Then Microsoft bends over backwards to help developers, especially peripheral developers. The rise of killer apps supported on a wider range of hardware.

I don't think it's so much the operating system as the killer apps.

The killer app, seems to be the thing of the past now - now it's more like the killer app of the week....

Yep, ran it on my Apple ][+

Lotus 1-2-3 ripped it off whole cloth on their spreadsheet form and function. Then when Microsoft introduced Excel, Lotus sued them for copying look and feel.

Software Arts (I think was the VisiCalc dev name) sued no one, I think.

So, looking back, we can really start to pin the whole IP mess on Lotus then? Hmmm... that would make for an interesting discussion in its own right....
 
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This marks my 40th year writing code and I try to keep up on things. That said, I didn't follow your NeXT question - please reword? :)

I remember when we all laughed at the notion of the Lotus lawsuit and how we wanted the VisiCalc guys to sue them back into the stone age. Another example of history being littered with times when we were all sure we knew the answer.

The universal constant is that knowing the right questions to ask is usually much harder than finding answers.

The Mac vs PC debate has gone on since the Windows came out. It began raging in the dot com days.

Of course, the whole dot com thing was a failure. Except for the fact that the claims of those days were that an open source initiative would become the basis to displace Microsoft as the richest tech company, that most commerce would move to emethods, that everyone would get internet access with appliance-level simplicity, that our media would go digital in an easy way, even video, and that what would happen in the tech sector would affect everyone's life at nearly the level of a Gibson novel.

When everyone lost their shirt, they told me that all of those dot com promises were pipe dreams. You couldn't build a sensible business plan out of those elements.

I think some interesting questions directly on-topic to this thread may yet be asked.
 
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Sorry, my bad. :D

William Gibson - Neuromancer, The Night We Burned Chrome, etc. Heralded as the pinnacle in tech fiction on the dark edge until Neil Stephenson wrote the first page of Snow Crash.

I think I meant that his tenure at NeXT was enlightening for Jobs. Correct, NeXT was not an OS, that was NeXTSTEP. I don't understand john's OS question about NeXTSTEP. For those unfamiliar -

NeXTSTEP - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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Sorry, my bad. :D

William Gibson - Neuromancer, The Night We Burned Chrome, etc. Heralded as the pinnacle in tech fiction on the dark edge until Neil Stephenson wrote the first page of Snow Crash.

I think I meant that his tenure at NeXT was enlightening for Jobs. Correct, NeXT was not an OS, that was NeXTSTEP. I don't understand john's OS question about NeXTSTEP. For those unfamiliar -

NeXTSTEP - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Next is a clothing / homewares store!

Next Official Site: Shop for Clothes, Shoes, Electricals, Homeware & More

Antidisofftopicarianism! :)
 
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It's clear that you haven't read the thread, nor are you interested in other views. I am glad that you have found the platform that is right for you. Like cars or dinner in a restaurant, everyone will not like the same thing, and making personal choices is a good thing, in my opinion.

Attempting to get everyone to see the Alienware light is not necessarily kicking the discussion up a notch. I am sure that others may agree or disagree with me on this, however.
 
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Attempting to get everyone to see the Alienware light is not necessarily kicking the discussion up a notch.

Isn't that the same as "My MacBook Pro kicks everyone else's..."?

Mr. Speed had the best statement in this thread...he basically said find what works for you and be happy about it. He had a lot of good Mac can do what PCs can't info too :)

I'm happy to say I have my foot in everybody's camp
 
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Isn't that the same as "My MacBook Pro kicks everyone else's..."?

It is until you start creating multiple threads on the exact same theme at the same time. That's what will cause me to sing out like that, it's usually the beginning of a hijacking. Everyone has been able to go a bit off-topic without hijacking.

Otherwise, express your opinions freely. :)
 
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It's clear that you haven't read the thread, nor are you interested in other views. I am glad that you have found the platform that is right for you. Like cars or dinner in a restaurant, everyone will not like the same thing, and making personal choices is a good thing, in my opinion.

Attempting to get everyone to see the Alienware light is not necessarily kicking the discussion up a notch. I am sure that others may agree or disagree with me on this, however.

not the discussion the competitors. like apple, alienware only make high end products, eg you wont see an i3 alienware...not that i am a fan of alienware or anything but i just walked past the window of a shop about 2 hours ago and saw an alienware computer and it looked like windows on steroids with its i7 processor and especially the appearance but i was disapointed to see that it only had 4GB of ram :(

i wasn't trying to put words in anyone's mouth. :thinking:
 
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like wise. all is an opinion....nothing more, but i will credit ios this: on the same CPU it will open the same programs faster than windows.

EarlyMon i thought you were being sarcastic when you said "Run a legal copy of OS X"
because i know of the patient story with apple.
 
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not the discussion the competitors. like apple, alienware only make high end products, eg you wont see an i3 alienware...not that i am a fan of alienware or anything but i just walked past the window of a shop about 2 hours ago and saw an alienware computer and it looked like windows on steroids with its i7 processor and especially the appearance but i was disapointed to see that it only had 4GB of ram :(

i wasn't trying to put words in anyone's mouth. :thinking:


False , The M11X has an i3 chip as basic :)

Alienware M11x Gaming Laptop Details | Dell

:D

I freaking love Alienware but its a bad argument. You may as well name ANY custom pc building company in existence and say their products are superior. The components are the same at the end of the day.
 
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like wise. all is an opinion....nothing more, but i will credit ios this: on the same CPU it will open the same programs faster than windows.

EarlyMon i thought you were being sarcastic when you said "Run a legal copy of OS X"
because i know of the patient story with apple.

I apologize for the confusion. You can run a Hackintosh on a PC but it violates the OS X license to do it.

For those that like OS X better, it was intended as a reasonable answer. I like to think that I save my sarcasm for the forum games. :D

Remember, iOS is their phone OS, not the same multitasking as found in Linux, OS X and Win7.
 
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OS X is baised on linux but what version of linux ? I would say that OS X and linux are the same thing.

Now to get back to the main idea....i have always wondered if OS x runs a regestry system, defragmentation and disk clean up automaticaly without the user knowing ?.....if so sweeeeeeeeet!!!!!!!!!!!........my mom strugles using a windows computer so i was wondering if os x is very user friendly and would be a good option for her ? As for me i strugle to use a mac.....im just to used to windows :( .......its a love hate thing all this.
 
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OS X isn't based on Linux. It's based on BSD unix with a Mach microkernel. OK to think of them as cousins.

There is no registry, that's unique to Windows. It doesn't defrag automatically last I checked, but neither does Linux. It will run fsck on boot after an abnormal termination and you can boot to just a console to run fsck or perform other manual admin tasks, just like Linux.

Some say that Macs are easier for non-tech types to use. I don't know. I think any new windowing system can be overwhelming and threatening for newcomers, regardless. Maybe have her sit in front of one at a store. But they aren't like the old days. They do more, so there can be more to learn and more confusion. For non-tech types with a Mac, let them set it up with the startup wizard, follow the hints and don't expand it from the out of the box configuration until they fully master it. At the same time, I know many non-tech types that find Windows or even Linux easier to use. Depends on the person and what they like to do.
 
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OS X isn't based on Linux. It's based on BSD unix with a Mach microkernel. OK to think of them as cousins.

There is no registry, that's unique to Windows. It doesn't defrag automatically last I checked, but neither does Linux. It will run fsck on boot after an abnormal termination and you can boot to just a console to run fsck or perform other manual admin tasks, just like Linux.

Some say that Macs are easier for non-tech types to use. I don't know. I think any new windowing system can be overwhelming and threatening for newcomers, regardless. Maybe have her sit in front of one at a store. But they aren't like the old days. They do more, so there can be more to learn and more confusion. For non-tech types with a Mac, let them set it up with the startup wizard, follow the hints and don't expand it from the out of the box configuration until they fully master it. At the same time, I know many non-tech types that find Windows or even Linux easier to use. Depends on the person and what they like to do.


I think thats the nail on the head isn't it. And that goes for any debate of this nature. What works for you , works for you.
 
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i agree this is gettein no where.
ya but to get facts and not opinions....thats the thing, then lets question the following:

responsiveness (impresed with mac but havent compared with windows right next to me)

time to boot up (my windows laptop from 2006 takes about 45min- 1 hour to start up, mac i am unsure but i sure it can beat this.

time it takes to open programs ( havent timed boath of them but i here that mac is better on this one)

which one can operate on the smallest processor and least ram and do so without lag. (never tried)

guys if you can please answer the questions above then it would give us a winner but how you chose to point each question is up to you.

If you can just answer the question for the os you use.
 
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I apologize for the confusion. You can run a Hackintosh on a PC but it violates the OS X license to do it.

For those that like OS X better, it was intended as a reasonable answer. I like to think that I save my sarcasm for the forum games. :D

Remember, iOS is their phone OS, not the same multitasking as found in Linux, OS X and Win7.

os x licence ?

So you have more features or it just runs better on mac or do you have apple ariving on your dorstep suing you for patient fragmentation ?
 
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i
time to boot up (my windows laptop from 2006 takes about 45min- 1 hour to start up, mac i am unsure but i sure it can beat this.
That seems WAY too long. My windows laptop from 2004 was much faster than that. Five minutes tops! I would definitely say there is something bad going on in there.... Might be time for a re-install?

My 2008 laptop (xp) - 0:45 - 1:00
2009 netbook (ubuntu and arch) 0:30 - 1:00
minutes, not hours. Even our old desktop from 2001 was faster than that... and that thing loaded a bunch of crapware from HP.

I heard that a lot of why macs power on so fast is because they instead will go into hibernate mode... now, I don't own a mac, so I can't verify that... but it is what I heard.
 
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