Money is the driving force behind Arizona's anti-immigrant law


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  1. hakr100

    hakr100 Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    Last year, two men showed up in Benson, Ariz., a small desert town 60 miles from the Mexico border, offering a deal.
    Glenn Nichols, the Benson city manager, remembers the pitch.
    "The gentleman that's the main thrust of this thing has a huge turquoise ring on his finger," Nichols said. "He's a great big huge guy and I equated him to a car salesman."
    What he was selling was a prison for women and children who were illegal immigrants.
    "They talk [about] how positive this was going to be for the community," Nichols said, "the amount of money that we would realize from each prisoner on a daily rate."
    But Nichols wasn't buying. He asked them how would they possibly keep a prison full for years
     

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  2. byteware

    byteware Well-Known Member

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    Let me get this straight. One of the four states that deals with the most illegal immigrant related crime, decides to deal with it, and people decide to profit from that, and you think that was the whole entire point? Really?

    Edited to add:

    Forget the fact that citizens have been calling for these kinds of laws for more than a decade.... Let's just forget that for a moment.
     
  3. ElasticNinja

    ElasticNinja Well-Known Member

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    Its been known for years that corporations control the Republicans (and large swathes of Democrat reps) via campaign funding.
    A cap needs to be placed on the amount allowed to be spent by each candidate (highest ever spend for the Mid-Terms).

    Anyway regarding prisons; how many Americans are incarcarated now, two million? three?
     
  4. jamor

    jamor Well-Known Member

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    I agree! So finally a state decides to deal with illegal immigration (phew, it's a first step) and now they get blamed for profiteering?

    Oh America...

    Goodbye, Ruby Tuesday
    Who could hang a name on you?
    When you change with every new day
    Still I'm gonna miss you.
     
  5. hakr100

    hakr100 Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    I think the citizens of Arizona were played in order to put money in the pockets of manipulative corporations.
     
  6. Bob Maxey

    Bob Maxey Well-Known Member

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    Also, I believe that there are and have been privately operated for profit prisons in the USA for many years. I think it is more cost effective for the state to use private prisons as well.

    Got to lock them up somewhere.

    Bob Maxey
     
  7. alex51

    alex51 Well-Known Member

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    Unless I've missed the most important thing here,am I to assume women & children which their only offense is being in Az. undocumented,then I am to assume because of that they will be sentenced to prison opposed to being sent back?If so there are so many legal issues involved(especially Federal).This really makes no sense because it won't happen as implied in this article.
    Am I expected to believe after all these mo's and only a few days away from election time that this article is factual?
     
  8. Martimus

    Martimus One bite at a time... Moderator

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    The funny thing here is that the incarceration of illegal immigrants is a FEDERAL function per U.S. Code, Title 8.

    United States Code: Title 8,TITLE 8—ALIENS AND NATIONALITY | LII / Legal Information Institute

    Arizona SB1070 as submitted by Russell Pearce repeatedly references U.S. Code, Title 8 as the prevailing immigration law of record in Arizona.

    www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf

    So, assuming that there's any validity to this NPR article, then the prisons would be under the jurisdiction of ICE (Immigrations and Customs Enforcement) and not of any local agency within the State of Arizona. And last time I checked the head of Homeland Security, Janet Napolitano (formerly the Governor of Arizona) had directed her agency, which includes ICE, to not incarcerate illegal immigrants turned over to ICE by state, county, or local law enforcement.

    For this to all be true Homeland Security would need to contract to and pay the private prison company. And unless Nappy changes her directive, only ICE would be authorized to deliver illegal immigrants to the prison

    According to the web site ALEC Watch (information is rather dated), there were 80+ members of Congress who are also members of ALEC. The list includes Congressional representatives, Senators, Governors, and Cabinet members.

    http://alecwatch.org/members.PDF

    The web site also indicates that ALEC is funded by some really big Corporations.

    ALEC Report -- Chapter Four

    Unless I'm mistaken, if ALEC were involved, this would have to be part of a larger Federal initiative. But it can't be a Federal initiative since our President is an ultra-Liberal who favors opening the borders. Opening the borders and imprisoning illegal immigrants would not be compatible with each other.

    So either these ALEC folks have plans to override Obama and change Federal immigration law... or else someone at NPR has his/her tinfoil hat on much too tight!
     
  9. byteware

    byteware Well-Known Member

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    You've already demonstrated that the only thing you understand about our political system is the caricatures that each party paints of the other.

    If you have any honest insights to bring to the table, please let us know.
     
  10. byteware

    byteware Well-Known Member

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    Let me get this straight... You think that giving the Citizens of Arizona what they want is "playing them"?

    Or you don't think the Citizens of Arizona WANT this? Even though they've been clamoring for it for years?
     
  11. hakr100

    hakr100 Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    I think the citizens of arizona were played by corporate interests who saw an opportunity to cash in on their fears and who stand to gain billions via long-term "storage" of human beings. That's one of the consequences of promulgating hate. Just ask any Nazi.
     
  12. byteware

    byteware Well-Known Member

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    So, just so we are clear, they played the citizens of Arizona by giving them what they want... correct?
     
  13. hakr100

    hakr100 Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    I hate to bring him but, but that's pretty much what hitler did. He played upon the fears of the german people, w2ho were going through economic hell, isolated scapegoats, and then swept them up and imprisoned them. It's what the good citizens of Germany wanted.

    I think the corporate interests took advantage of fear and found a way to fire it up some more and make a profit off it.
     
  14. byteware

    byteware Well-Known Member

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    So, you think that Hitler played on the fear of the German people in order to have them pass a law to enforce existing laws?

    Really?
     
  15. ElasticNinja

    ElasticNinja Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry, you dont understand what I said do you?
     
  16. ElasticNinja

    ElasticNinja Well-Known Member

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    I dont think there is much point bringing Hitler into this.

    And I dont think its wrong to not want illegal immigration (as long as you are treating the countries they are coming from fairly).
    Still though, you cant blame people for not wanting a better life...
     
  17. jamor

    jamor Well-Known Member

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    Let me explain to you how this works: you see, the corporations finance Team America, and then Team America goes out... and the corporations sit there in their... in their corporation buildings, and... and, and see, they're all corporation-y... and they make money.
     
  18. byteware

    byteware Well-Known Member

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    You mean, do I understand that the Democratic party paints the Republican party as being controlled by corporations?

    Yes.

    Do I understand that's just a caricature? Yes, I do.

    Do I understand that the philosophical beliefs of each party brings their nearly identical goals to completely different practical regulations? Yes.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Democrats and Republicans both believe that taking care of the poor and needy is a top priority.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Democrats don't trust the individual public to take care of the needy.

    They believe that the government is the only organization that can do so.

    They also believe that the Rich should pay for taking care of the needy.


    -------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Republicans don't trust the government to take care of the needy.

    They believe that each person has a personal responsibility to do so.

    They also believe that each person has a responsibility to pay for taking care of the needy.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Some fun facts:

    Democrats and Republicans pay the same taxes.

    The average income of states that vote Democratic in Presidential elections is 6% higher than the average income in states that vote Republican in Presidential elections.

    States who vote Republican in Presidential elections give much more to charity than states who vote Democratic (per capita).

    The first aid organizations on the scene after Hurricane Katrina were not government based. They were faith based organizations.

    These organizations brought and supplied basic supplies to give to the survivors of hurricane Katrina and were responsible for keeping the situation from getting much worse.

    These organizations arrived mere hours after Katrina subsided (not days... hours).

    Being religious southern organizations these were mostly evangelical Christians (I have no stats, but the south is heavily Evangelical Christian).

    Evangelical Christians are the far right of the Republican party (generalization, but one most are comfortable making).



    My point being. Republicans believe in a different philosophy, but they REALLY believe in that philosophy, and stick their money and their time where they believe they should.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------


    So, yes... I do understand that you repeated a caricature of the parties that they paint for the public.

    And yes, I do understand that it shows a solid lack of understanding of the American political system and how complicated the different views are that are represented in politics.
     
  19. ElasticNinja

    ElasticNinja Well-Known Member

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    You do realise that every party is heavily influenced by Interest groups, right?
    Just because I pointed out that corporations prefer to use the GOP to get their way doesnt mean that they are the only ones who do so.
    For example almost every union allies themselves with the Democrats, and funds them in some way.

    I think we can both agree that a funding/donations limit would be a good thing, no?
     
  20. Martimus

    Martimus One bite at a time... Moderator

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    In this particular article I think it's very evident that NPR was nowhere close to the truth...
     
  21. hakr100

    hakr100 Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    Really? Perhaps you can counter the NPR piece, fact by fact.
     
  22. Martimus

    Martimus One bite at a time... Moderator

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    Already did! And, to be honest, that article is rather lacking in facts. :rolleyes:

    SB1070 specifically indicates that Federal law, Title 8, is the prevailing law regarding immigration. Title 8 would make the incarcaration of illegal immigrants a Federal mandate. To reinforce this mandate the Department of Homeland Security already operates two immigration-specific detention centers in the Arizona towns of Florence and Eloy.

    Detention Facilities

    This sets the precedent that additional facilities also be tied to DHS. To date not a single Arizona law enforcement agency is actively enforcing SB1070 (except possibly Sheriff Joe's goon squad), at least until the outcome of the various law suits.

    Arizona immigration law has not lived up to reputation

    The head of DHS, Janet Napolitano, has already directed ICE that they do not have to accept detainees from any Arizona law enforcement agency. For this reason any illegal immigrants eligible for placement in this proposed facility would have to be placed there by a law enforcement officer of ICE.

    Napolitano Threatens to Not Accept Immigrants Busted Under Arizona Law; Follows ICE Chief's Statement - Phoenix News - Valley Fever


    The NPR story indicates that CCA placed a lobbyist at the state capital and that ALEC members quickly adopted support of the bill. So why was CCA talking to the town of Benson when this was obviously a state-wide initiative?

    For what it's worth, Benson is a tiny little town in a rural Arizona county (Yes I've been there!). The town has a population of less than 5000 people and has a very small budget.

    Benson, Arizona - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    For budgetary reasons the town would not be able to pay CCA to operate the facility. So what value was there in CCA talking to them in the first place? If CCA were trying to get this prison funded at the local level they'd likely end up paying for the project themselves. IF they wanted to get the project funded at the county level they'd need to be speaking with county government in Bisbee. And if they wanted it funded at state level they'd need to be talking to the Arizona Department of Corrections in Phoenix. Of the three DOC has a larger annual budget than Cochise County and the town of Benson combined.

    My guess is that DOC wouldn't be all too interested given that they already operate two state prisons near Benson (in Tucson and in Douglas). Douglas, by the way, is right on the Mexican border whereas Benson is about 60 miles away.

    Arizona Department of Corrections

    Per existing Federal laws the Fed's are responsible for reimbursing the state for the cost of holding any immigration-related detainees. Unfortunately the federal government is only making token payments to cover the cost of housing illegal immigrants.

    Federal money for illegal immigrants

    For this reason the state is rather hesitant to invest any large sums of their dwindling budget in Federal projects that they won't get completely reimbursed for.

    So therefore the likely partner in the operation of a detention facility is the Federal government, in other words Immigration and Custom's Enforcement (ICE).

    With respect to Russell Pearce and ALEC, Pierce has already responded to NPR's allegations as lies. CCA has also denied any lobbying efforts with respect to Pearce and SB1070. A senior director at ALEC stated that Pearce offered a completed draft of his bill for consideration as model legislation. The NPR story stated it was only an idea.

    Sen. Russell Pearce: SB 1070 story 'a lie'

    In contrast to the NPR article, ALEC is not simply an organization of state legislators. ALEC is comprised of many political leaders throughout the U.S. (state legislators, U.S. congressmen, U.S. senators, state governors, and high ranking government officials).

    http://alecwatch.org/members.PDF


    Bottom line... there's more holes in NPR's story than in a swiss cheese!
     
  23. copestag

    copestag Well-Known Member

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    sshhhh..... you know it was all Bush's idea
     
  24. hakr100

    hakr100 Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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  25. Martimus

    Martimus One bite at a time... Moderator

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    Exactly how I feel about the NPR article... lots of accusations and rumors but almost no supportable facts!

    One of the unfortunate things about the press... they make all sorts of claims and then hide behind the first amendment. Eventually she might reveal her sources but the likelihood is that she'll never reveal who she spoke with and exactly what they said.
     

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