Nexus screen tech - PenTile, dpi, SAMOLEDGeneral

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  1. AntimonyER

    AntimonyER AF Addict VIP Member

    And with the GNex, Sammy/Google/Verizon have come the closest yet to making the perfect phone for me :) pentile is a little bit of a disappointment, but at 720p, I think I will be OK. Well have a full slate today, so probably will not get back til after 10k. Have fun!

    EarlyMon likes this.
  2. Ltgk20

    Ltgk20 Active Member

    One thing which has been mentioned about pentile but probably needs more focus is its performance on bright light. I have a friend who picked up a bionic and he can see his screen well in full sunlight. Given the use of a phone as a gps in the car and use outside this seems relavent to me.
    BlueBiker and EarlyMon like this.
  3. TheRoosevelt

    TheRoosevelt Well-Known Member

    Boy, am I glad you were there to take all the display questions after I left, because I'll tell ya, I'd reached the extent of my knowledge in that first post :D

    Edit: You too, earlymon, thanks for that :D
    BlueBiker and EarlyMon like this.
  4. nj02vette

    nj02vette Well-Known Member

    Screens that are photographed with a videocamera can be very deceptive. See it in person to make a determination.
    EarlyMon likes this.
  5. nj02vette

    nj02vette Well-Known Member

    Excellent synopsis.

    There is a diference between SAMOLED and LCD pentile, as LCD is more sensitive to power differences. SAMOLED, with no backlight, is completely dependant on the source material. It takes almost no power to run an all black screen, while LCD, there is always a backlight running (backlight is the single largest drain of LCD).

    So it's very difficult to characterize actual power savings, because it all comes down to what they are displaying. If the test uses more blacks, AMOLED will show signifigant power savings, but if it has more whites, then it will be worse. As said, it's pretty much a wash.
    BlueBiker and EarlyMon like this.
  6. jimbo1mcm

    jimbo1mcm Well-Known Member

    I need to know when the final exam will be on Pentile screens.( It will be multiple choice, so make sure you don't choose choice A. or D.)
    BrknKing, AJnATL and nexusprimepls like this.
  7. nj02vette

    nj02vette Well-Known Member

    Everyone keep in mind that engineering, like life, is all about compromises. This isn't Samsung's choice to put in a Pentile display. It's just reality.

    I'm sure Samsung would have preferred to design a phone with a full 1080p display, 6GHz octocore processor, 20MP camera, and 1 month battery life.

    But that technology doesn't exist. They have to use the processor that's available, camera optics that will fit in the package, and battery tech available.

    In the case of the screen, Samsung is the premier manufacturer of organic LED technology. But they don't have the manufacturing technology to manufacture SAMOLED with that density yet in full RGB capacity. But they can print the displays in pentile.

    Pentile is just a compromise, not a feature or advanced technology. Samsung isn't using it because they want to, they are using it because they have to. Next year, the tech may be available for full 1080p RGB SAMOLED+, but it's not available yet.
  8. nj02vette

    nj02vette Well-Known Member

    Heaven forbid anyone learn anything. :D

    I'm making all the answers A or D, and throw some true/false in there too.
  9. EarlyMon

    EarlyMon The PearlyMon Moderator

    Maybe PenTile, maybe that in SAMOLED provided that - either way, that can be important to people.

    Exactly why I say just pick what you like, and don't sweat the buzzwords or sales pitches. ;) :)
  10. rushmore

    rushmore Well-Known Member

    IMO, Pentile tech positives (power consumption, sharpness, outdoors clarity) outweigh the negatives (grain effect in some background and some color trailing), but just BARELY). The grain is not an issue to me on a small display, but the object trailing can be annoying, since some games (especially emulators) give off trail effects for some moving objects (especially red).

    If newer pentile displays have no trail effect, I would be happy. That all said, an IPS panel like on the iPod 4 is still the best display tech and there should be more devices with the tech this time next year, or earlier (Hitachi is ramping up capacity of their own version).
  11. mongstradamus

    mongstradamus Well-Known Member

    even with all those posts I still don't understand the differences
  12. jasaero

    jasaero Well-Known Member

    I posted some replies to this. It's more a product of frequency bands used than LTE vs CDMA vs WiMax for building penetration. VZW's LTE is 700mhz former analog TV spectrum and that low frequency big wavelength penetrates buildings WAY better than 1900mhz PCS that a lot of CDMA or GSM is on or the 2ghz+ that I believe most Clearwire WiMax is on and maybe a TINY bit better than 850mhz that will only be used by the carrier that has rights to the analogue spectrum to use in your area.

    Sorta. I tend to think the real issue has to do with widely varying eyesight anomalies. Not just visual acuity either, but how we all process different colors and the effective refresh rate of our eyes and how this works with how they are processing the Pentile and whether their tricks end up working well for our individual visual system or not. Our eyes just work A LOT different than any visual display or capture systems and on top of that seemingly have different capability from many different aspects of how they actually show an image to us. PenTile if I am not mistaken tries to trick some of how our eyes work a bit more than a standard stripe pattern and it's more successful at pulling this off for some than it is for others, but most agree at high enough resolution it will go beyond most peeps ability to notice the trickery as it will get beyond their acuity to pick up on it.
    nj02vette likes this.
  13. burntorangefan

    burntorangefan Well-Known Member

    Agree, I'm really excited for this phone...The SD card "issue" is a non-starter for me, the differences in Pentile vs Amoled + are a non-starter. Looking at the WHOLE package, it will be the best Android phone for some time. Just really happy and eagerly awaiting Tuesday...I don't expect perfection, just a really great experience.
  14. mongstradamus

    mongstradamus Well-Known Member

    I have an similar phone with the captivate it seems like when you touch the phone you lose an bar or two. Kind of similar to the iphone 4 death grip
  15. BlueBiker

    BlueBiker Well-Known Member

    Let the record show that I'm exerting extreme willpower and declining to add a detailed and potentially witty reply to these PenTile posts here. Ohhhh the painnnn, the painnn. :eek:

    Oh Han, you coulda been a contender. :(

    Impossible. We all know that 4430 is ridiculously obsolete and that Nexus with a 50% faster CPU won't be fast enough for anybody. :p

    I'm gonna have two versions on my Test: R/G/B/G and R/G/B/W. :D

    There's no point to this argument. If you're upset that a screen advertised as 4.65" loses a small amount of space to buttons, then just mentally subtract .4" from the spec and then either buy or don't buy the phone.

    Reminds me of the old days when CRT monitors were over-advertised, so that a 22" CRT really only had about 20.5" of viewable area due to the bezel. We survived the era, we just accommodated the marketing-friendly specs we were given!
  16. BlueBiker

    BlueBiker Well-Known Member

    Hmmmm, I get more Thanks for not posting PenTile junk than I do for posting it. Must be a message in there somewhere.

    Wonder if there's a way to monetize not posting PenTile / CPU / megapixel stuff in here. Say, $.10 per viewer per day of uncluttered thread? :D
    EarlyMon likes this.
  17. Loriolus

    Loriolus Well-Known Member

    Like I've mentioned before....forget about 320 ppi if the screen is pentile. GS 2 screen will look better. Really hope that I'm wrong about it being pentile.
  18. BlueBiker

    BlueBiker Well-Known Member

    Okayyyy I have it figured out now: If you either talk about PenTile or you talk about not talking about PenTile, it gets moved here. Guess I can work w/that. :rolleyes:
  19. r4yN

    r4yN Well-Known Member

    the white is much better on the NOTE [compared to the SGS2]... hopefully we get this (non-bluish) white on the NP, too...

    excuse me for being worried that the NP won't be able to play 3D-games that release in the next 2 years... there will be quadcore early next year, so if the game developers script their games for quadcore, we would have problems with a dual-core device...
  20. Teegunn

    Teegunn Well-Known Member

    I love the high contrast colors of samoled, but the greyish whites really kill it for me. the whites on my DX2 (yes, pentile) are the brightest of any phone I have seen. Let me mention that my DX2 seems to have a brighter screen than other pentile screens I have compared it to (yes with same screen brightness settings of course) side by side. This would include many different DX2's and bionics. In other words, I wonder if there weren't different runs of pentile screens and some are natively brighter than others. I am digressing a bit, but my point is that having true, bright whites is VERY important to me in a display. let me also comment that the colors and saturtion of my DX2 screen is quite nice too. Not at all washed out. Yes, VERY close up, you can see the petile effect, but for normal viewing it's a non issue and the fantastic brightness more than makes up for any penitile negtives. Where this is leading is that if the new samoled tech can include much better white levels, I am probably going to be very happy.
  21. BlueBiker

    BlueBiker Well-Known Member

    I don't think there are many (any?) PC games that depend on quad-core, and those have been out since January of '07. Usually games are written to run well on whatever hardware is most commonly owned.

    But you're right that technology marches on, and what seems fast today won't be as impressive in 2yrs. If that's important to you, I can see why you'd want to wait for something w/more leading edge 3D performance.
    r4yN likes this.
  22. EarlyMon

    EarlyMon The PearlyMon Moderator

    Hey - it's Saturday. Figuring out what to move and what not to move wasn't easy. ;) :p

    Now that we have our own thread, I can happily square that point away.

    Instead of small vs. big, the math is simple - PenTile subpixels are 50% larger than rbg subpixels.

    1 pixel = 3rgb = 2 pentile, so pentile = 1.5 rgb - all other math flows from there, but there's the degenerate case to clarify:

    On a hypothetical 3"x4" screen, using the same chemical formulations for SAMOLED/+ pixels, displaying an all-red field, the rgb screen will light up:

    1/3 x 3 x 4 = 4 square inches of the screen

    Whereas the Pentile will light up:

    1/4 x 3 x 4 = 3 square inches of the screen

    To produce the same effect, the PenTile will have dynamically increase brightness (and consume more power) - and by design, it does.

    Assume that an rgb subpixel represents a unit area.

    Red would be produced by 921600 unit areas for rbg.

    Red would be produced by 460800 x 1.5 = 691200 unit areas for pentile.

    691200/921600 = 3/4, same ratio for the shortcut math I started with, comparing ratios of 1/3 and 1/4.

    There is an error term due to mask width, but it's minor.

    And if you look at fields of color and work down, you'll find it always comes out this way, regardless of pixel sizes.

    If my hypothetical 3x4 pentile screen had only two rgbw pixels, a full field display of red would still be 3 square inches.

    Hope that clarifies why PenTile needs that processing, has that processing, and while honestly claiming many benefits - does not save power or use more, integrating over a full range of use cases.

    It just is what it is.
    BlueBiker likes this.
  23. BlueBiker

    BlueBiker Well-Known Member

    Agreed, the whites in the SGS2 pic above look awful. I don't remember noticing poor whites on the Droid Charge (w/same screen) I had for a few weeks. I don't know what to think, but I sure hope Nexus is bright w/better color fidelity.
  24. EarlyMon

    EarlyMon The PearlyMon Moderator

    In other forums, I was able to segregate various tech threads that made everyone happy.

    I have no intention of kicking anyone out anywhere.

    If we need to discuss processor handling of the display, this is a good place.

    If we need to discuss other processor specifics, let's get together and decide what threads we want.

    While others are posting happy lucky funny looky images in a thread that will get locked, we'll build sustaining tech threads that will be of benefit to all Nexus newcomers throughout the product lifetime, concentrating on areas of specific interest to make wading through the tech details easier for all.

    Hope that works - ok to discuss here if not.
  25. EarlyMon

    EarlyMon The PearlyMon Moderator

    Screen ghosting - aka lag - aka persistence problems.

    I hear you, I hate it. The Sharp mobile super ASV tech doesn't suffer it either (I have that on my phone, it's coming to many others).

    Just a sorta tangential link for those unfamiliar -

    TFT LCD - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    It's not Nexus or SAMOLED info in that link (and it's a bit out of date, but close enough for rock and roll), but others finding this thread may want to know what IPS means - again, not magic, just a tech description.

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