No more unlimited from V?

[kyler13]

I'd like to know how folks find that Share Everything saves them money. I feel like 2GB between my wife and I would be cutting it close, so 4GB would actually run me $14 more per month. I suppose 2GB would be only $4 more per month, but I'm still paying more (though only slightly) and now I'm paranoid about my usage. All for the ability to get a new phone for $200 on contract (for my wife). On the flip side, if I pay $650 for a phone outright, it'll cost me an additional $450 out of pocket, or $22.50 over 20 months. $14 vs $22.50. Hmmm...is it worth the piece of mind of not having to worry about my data bucket usage for an extra ~$9/month? The beauty is that I'll be month-to-month so the contract upgrade price would be available at any time if Verizon decided to force me off unlimited. I'll have to continue to look at this and put some more thought into it.

 

[BrianJB]

Like someone said earlier "data is a commodity". And they will milk it for as long as it is.

The one big thing that pisses me off though is the fact that what they advertise using your "super fast LTE speeds" for such as video chatting,music streaming,movie streaming..etc is the type of stuff that unless you have a plan that you are paying for 6-8 gbs of data you would without a doubt go over your allowed data.

 

[qetuop]

Like someone said earlier "data is a commodity". And they will milk it for as long as it is.

The one big thing that pisses me off though is the fact that what they advertise using your "super fast LTE speeds" for such as video chatting,music streaming,movie streaming..etc is the type of stuff that unless you have a plan that you are paying for 6-8 gbs of data you would without a doubt go over your allowed data.

You just need to pay Comcast for internet as well so you can use wi-fi.

I don't think Verizon will be happy until customers just give them money without receiving anything in return.

 

[BrianJB]

You just need to pay Comcast for internet as well so you can use wi-fi.

I don't think Verizon will be happy until customers just give them money without receiving anything in return.

LOL, I know right?

Thats the thing, they advertise that you could sit at the park and watch movies all day on your phone. But the truth is they are kind of pushy about making sure you connect to wifi whenever its available, which I understand. But at the sametime don't advertise it like the way they do because thats what gets people pissed off.

Most people don't understand data plans at all...heck even my wife said "why do I need a data plan?". But when verizon gets customers in there who know nothing about data and they tell them "the 2gb plan is all you need, there is no way you could go over", then the people use their phones for video chat,pandora..etc...

Then what do you know?, you get a bill for $45 more than what it should be because you went over your data.

 

[SEMIJim]

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[euph_22]

Sure it does. Where people get the idea that bandwidth is free, I don't know. It costs money, real money, to build, maintain and upgrade networks. The more of it there is, and the higher the speed, the more it costs.

The CAPACITY to distribute bandwidth costs money. Not the bandwidth itself (notice how absolutely nothing you said actually relates to pushing data down the tubes, just sticking the giant tube there in the first place). I will agree with you 100% that it costs money to "build, maintain and upgrade networks". Compared to those costs, it costs next to nothing to OPERATE the network, and it certainly doesn't cost anything to add users onto existing infrastructure, which is what we are talking about here.

The first part is true. And the cost of building out their network is no doubt part of the reason for the price increases. As to your second assertion: Of course it does. "Data highways" are very much like automobile highways and rail: Costs money to put in, costs money to keep running. Stuff wears out, grows obsolete and breaks; people have to be paid to babysit it, upgrade it, and repair it, etc.

Unless you think that network equipment wears out based on usage (as in you're router will wear out if you download too much data), none of this relates to the costs based on the usage of an individual user. Data highways are absolutely nothing like automobile highways. A road that gets heavy traffic will wear out faster than one that gets next to no traffic. That is simply not the case that for data networks.

Again, I completely agree that data networks are extremely expensive to build and maintain. They however cost next to nothing to add users onto existing networks.

 

[SEMIJim]

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[euph_22]

A semantic quibble. Unless you have the capacity, you don't have the bandwidth.

But if you have the capacity, there is no reason you can't add the bandwidth with essentially no cost.

Again: A distinction without a difference. Higher demand = greater burden. Greater burden = greater costs.

Jim

No, it really isn't. Greater demand only results in greater costs if those demands aren't met by existing capacity (ignoring the relatively minor added thermal wear which is overall pretty insignificant compared to the overall costs).
This is an ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL distinction here. Because with how Verizon builds out and sells it's network (based on area) the vast majority of users are in areas where the network is at only a fraction of it's capacity, and the others are in areas that need more infrastructure regardless of their personal usage. Moreover, in areas where the network is near capacity, they can throttle unlimited users to reduce their network load. And because they build the network out/up in discrete units (cell nodes that handle 60 users simultaneously, towers made up of 20 nodes, and so on) the effects of an individual user's use are essentially irrelevant. Either Verizon needs to upgrade the network there or they don't.

Let's go back to the physical highway example. Assuming you paved the roads with unobtanium, so the roads didn't wear out based on usage, the it would cost money to build new roads to different cities, or add lanes to existing roads. But as long as you didn't need to do either of those, going from 100 cars per hour to 200 cars per hour wouldn't cost any more money.

 

[SEMIJim]

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[Ted1Jones]

Very few business can actually charge what their product costs, because even with simple items, it's difficult or impossible to know the true cost of producing, shipping, marketing and supporting them. So, you charge what the market will bear and hope you make a profit. When you don't, you raise prices and/or lower costs.

Verizon Wireless changed their plans simply to maintain and enhance their revenue stream. When the original cell phone market was building, the cost per minute was high. As cell phones became more popular and voice minutes became a commodity, carriers cut costs to attract customers. They then started charging high rates for text and picture messages - the next big thing. Finally, as texting become a commodity, the cost of text plans were cut to the bone (my company's users each gets 500 free SMS/month, how much more does one need?).

Now, data is the big thing, and with voice and text plans priced so low (and used much less), data is the only place the carriers can make big money. They through in huge amounts of minutes since so few even use them. Once everyone has a smartphone and tablet and the infrastructure continues to get built-out, prices will go down as the next big thing, whatever it may be, comes along.

So, data pricing has little to do with capacity and the cost of network expansion. It is simply the area in which carriers can currently make money. More and more people have decided they need data, and the carriers are not yet cutting each others' throats over its pricing, so, right now, if you want it, you pay.

 

[SEMIJim]

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[Ted1Jones]

I don't know if you are saying that the smartphone market will be considered saturated once a few more people get one, or that like 90% of people will have a smartphone soon. I would not consider it saturated until all but those who will never get one, get one. Currently, most Americans have a cell phone but do not yet do not yet have a smartphone.

Have you noticed that the new, non-smartphone offerings, at least from VZW, are terrible? It is as though they are trying to force people into data plans by forcing them into smartphones.

So long as the demand for cellular data remains high and there are enough new smartphone users to satisfy the carriers, the data plan prices will remain high. I'm actually surprised VZW grandfathered-in the unlimited data plans. If they took away mine, what other options would I have?

 

[euph_22]

Verizon Wireless changed their plans simply to maintain and enhance their revenue stream. When the original cell phone market was building, the cost per minute was high. As cell phones became more popular and voice minutes became a commodity, carriers cut costs to attract customers. They then started charging high rates for text and picture messages - the next big thing. Finally, as texting become a commodity, the cost of text plans were cut to the bone (my company's users each gets 500 free SMS/month, how much more does one need?).

Now, data is the big thing, and with voice and text plans priced so low (and used much less), data is the only place the carriers can make big money. They through in huge amounts of minutes since so few even use them. Once everyone has a smartphone and tablet and the infrastructure continues to get built-out, prices will go down as the next big thing, whatever it may be, comes along.

So, data pricing has little to do with capacity and the cost of network expansion. It is simply the area in which carriers can currently make money. More and more people have decided they need data, and the carriers are not yet cutting each others' throats over its pricing, so, right now, if you want it, you pay.

100% correct, and 100% irrelevant to whether or not Verizon will cut off existing unlimited data plans (and the revenue stream, albeit smaller on a per person basis, associated with it).

 

[euph_22]

I'm actually surprised VZW grandfathered-in the unlimited data plans. If they took away mine, what other options would I have?

You actually answered this yourself. They are changing the pricing models to enhance their revenue stream. If they cut off people's unlimited data, many of those customers would take their business elsewhere and they would lose that revenue stream.

 

[Ted1Jones]

Elsewhere to whom? No other carriers have unlimited data for $20 and those with rates lower then VZW have lousy overall coverage and non-existent or sparse 4G.


I think a discussion as to why data rates have have suddenly jumped and where they might be going is interesting. A discussion focused on "whether or not Verizon will cut off existing unlimited data plans" is 100% irrelevant and uninteresting. They will do whatever they will do with no reason or rhymne than any of us can discern, no matter how long it is discussed.

 

[euph_22]

Elsewhere to whom? No other carriers have unlimited data for $20 and those with rates lower then VZW have lousy overall coverage and non-existent or sparse 4G.

Verizon doesn't anymore either, which is the whole point. A lot of people won't be thinking "Oh well, I can't get data as cheap as I was paying before. I'll stay with Verizon after this massive forced price hike. Even if Sprint/Tmobile/page plus/us cellular/etc are cheaper." They will say "S$#@ you verizon. Why the hell are you jacking my prices up by X% (in my case 80% for the LOWEST data tier). I don't care if I get terrible service, I'm not giving you another dime."

The people this would effect are those off contract, who have already made the decision to buy the phone at full price to keep unlimited data so there can easily switch to Sprint or T-Mobile (not as good nationwide coverage, of bandwidth but still provide good service in many places), or go prepaid.

Let me ask you this. If they arbitrarily changed your plan so you would be paying way more money for far less service, wouldn't you switch to any reasonable alternative? (for example a prepaid service using Verizon's network).

And they (or any public company for that matter) doesn't do things without rhyme nor reason. Everything they do is to increase the value for the shareholders.

I think a discussion as to why data rates have have suddenly jumped and where they might be going is interesting. A discussion focused on "whether or not Verizon will cut off existing unlimited data plans" is 100% irrelevant and uninteresting. They will do whatever they will do with no reason or rhymne than any of us can discern, no matter how long it is discussed.

Then why did you join a discussion thread on whether or not Verizon would cut off unlimited data? I agree that the motivation for the rate hikes are rather interesting and illustrate how the cost/pricing relationship for telecoms is greatly out of whack from the consumers perspective. However, that's not what this particular discussison is on

 

[Ted1Jones]

Verizon certainly does have an unlimited data plan. You just cannot now move to one, or retain itunder certain circumstances. If and when Verizon cancels my unlimited data plan, I will probably move to whichever plan they have that is best for me. I won't, just over this, say, "S$#@" and move to a carrier wiith poorer offerings. Remember, Verizon is not the only carrier that got rid of unlimited data. If you compare the cost of the Verizon plan that includes the amount of data you actually need, it will be about the same as other carriers' "unlimited" (not really) plans. If you can find a plan, with the phone coverage and 4G coverage and customer service and smartphone offerings that meets your needs better than Verizon, by all means go for it. But, why haven't you moved there already?

By the by, the way I read the initial post, this thread is not really about whether unlimited data plans will disappear, but is about bashing (not that there's anything wrong with it) Verizon for it. My mistake if this is not a place to talk about data plans in general as well.

 

[euph_22]

Ok, we are having to completely different discussions about two completely different scenarios. We really should move one of them elsewhere (I'd suggest a new thread, or any of the other existing ones on the shared data plans). I agree that rereading the first couple posts it didn't start out as a discussion on that (or on anything in particular). But there is no reason to run the two discussions in the same thread.

Now if you really want to continue the discussion about whether or not Verizon will kill off unlimited data for us holdouts, we can do that. If you want to continue your discussion we can (I'd suggest moving it elsewhere). Let's not do both in the same thread.

 

[SEMIJim]

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[XstitchCowgirl]

Verizon is pushing us to change plans and loose our unlimited. We have two smartphones who use the unlimited plan. They keep saying you don't use even close to 2GB.

I still like the idea of unlimited. But I know I have to save $800 for the Samsung Galaxy Note 2!!

How many of you still have unlimited?

 

[Raw Dodge]

I still have it.. The day I let it go is the day I drop Verizon altogether.. I will just buy my next device outright... Hopefully manufacturers will stop subsidizing phones soon... Just reduce the cost of the service, let us buy our own devices... If they can afford to subsidize 400 dollars every 2 years, they can afford to drop the price of service per line on my account by 16.00 a month per line instead....

 

[badrsj]

Cause we the people want to be fooled into thinking the phones cost $200.
We'd rather pay less and be tethered than pay the right price and be free.

 

[jhawkkw]

Cause we the people want to be fooled into thinking the phones cost $200.
We'd rather pay less and be tethered than pay the right price and be free.

This basically sums it up in a nutshell. The problem is that even if you buy the device at full retail, Verizon doesn't reduce your monthly bill. So you still continue to pay for the subsidy even if there isn't one or it's already paid off. So financially, if you don't think there's any possibility you'll want to change carriers, then why not take the subsidy. Then again, that's probably their logic and how they trap so many with those evil contracts.

 

[Raw Dodge]

I won't take the subsidiaries because I'd Lose my unlimited data.. I got my S3 pre ordered... So i'm in contract until 7/11/2014.

 

[dirkbonn]

I think the majority of Verizons customers that have unlimited data don't really NEED unlimited data, they just want it. It gives them a good feeling or it's a mental crutch, or whatever, the reason doesn't really matter. They're actually doing what Verizon wants.

Let me explain...
Before you got a $3-400 price reduction on a new phone and then paid for it over a period of 20+ months at which time they/you did it all over again. Now, in order to keep unlimited, you pay full retail for the phone, (from Verizon or someplace else, they don't care) and they continue to provide you wireless service at the same price as if they sold you a subsidized phone. (except they didn't have to subsidize a phone, so there's no subsidization cost to recoup)

So, back to my original statement, "the majority of Verizons customers that have unlimited data don't really NEED unlimited data." These customers that do whatever it takes to keep unlimited, but don't really NEED it, Verizon is making money from them. The so called "data hogs" that really NEED unlimited data are the winners in this game. However, Verizon knows that eventually, all these unlimited data customers will eventually erode away. This will be for various reasons, they switch carriers, they tire of "jumping through hoops", a death in the family, it really doesn't matter because eventually the number will be so small that the unlimited customers will have an insignificant impact on Verizons bottom line. This is when Verizon can say when your next unlimited contract expires you MUST choose a tiered plan or a share plan. Since the unlimited number of customers is insignificant, they won't care if you stay or leave. Besides, where are they going to go? By this time, no major carrier will have unlimited data. This won't happen anytime in the near future but it will happen. Many years I expect.

Those unlimited customers that upgrade another line to get a subsidized phone and then transfer it to the unlimited line, Verizon is OK with that too. They've locked a line into another 2 year contract. (that is, after all, what it's all about) Or another way keep unlimited is to add a dummy line for $9.99 and then transfer the phone to the unlimited line. Again, Verizon is ok with this, they get another $240 over the life of a 2 year contract. Sure, you get to keep your unlimited data, but Verizon was already providing you with that service, it's just that now, they get an additional $200+ to help offset the cost of providing unlimited data.

In wrapping this up, Verizon with it's 93,000,000+ customers has the time and resources (read ca$h flow) to wait these grandfathered unlimited data customers out. The end of unlimited data is coming.... I can't tell you exactly when.... just that it is coming!

Best of luck to all of us, whatever we decide to do.

(Sorry for the long post, it just took me awhile to get my thoughts written out)